Solo Operations Petition

[Jedi_riches]

While I would love a solo conclusion to the Oricon story line, I really doubt one would ever be done, things like that really need to be done during development rather than trying to go back and design ways to do it alone.

 

I do wonder however, just how many players would still be calling for solo operations had it not been for the fact Bioware dropped a solo quest line right in the middle of a operation story line that required the final operations to make sense of the solo quest line without the abrupt ending? I know that this is my main issue with Oricon as bioware consider the solo part a 'purple' mission and put it on the mission console along with the other expansion stories as a 'essential' story quest.

 

Honestly though, what I have heard of 5.2 worries me as they keep talking about how 5.2 will be like Oricon as I see it as the solo story won't resole itself without the operation just like Oricon. Had they compared it more with SOR I would have been happier as I felt SOR had the better mix of group and solo play yet both playstyles offered a full resolution.

[Limariko]

Personally, I would love to see a single-player alternative added to Oricon so if you like Ops, you do Dread Fortress and Dread Palace like normal, but if not, then you can choose to do something like the final fight on Yavin IV - a straight fight against the Dread Masters with your companion/s and multiple NPCs at your side.

Where would the harm be in that?

 

I wouldn' t mind this at all just like I wouldn't mind an option to run the assorted Ops as the level it was when it went live at the higher level my characters are now. I do enjoy doing raids solo while overleveled. I still have to read up and research the fights which even overleveled may or may not be doable, still have to prep in advance for it, and I get the chance of a decoration/mount/pet drop while any gear I might use for cosmetic value or sell off. I've done this in WoW often just to see how far I can get.

 

It's nothing being handed over for little to nothing, still involves preparation and work along with a chance of failing even with all that. But I know there will still be some who'll consider this option as completely unthinkable.

[DarthDymond]

I have no problem with personally running group Ops to see story content, even though it is far, far from my preferred mode of play. I've run every Op in the game at least once and will probably run every new one they put out at least once.

 

But one of the big sticking points with developing Ops has always been how resource-intensive they are to produce when compared with the number / percentage of players who end up seeing them. The big reason I support the idea of solo Ops is that it will likely expand the number / percentage of players who actually benefit from the development of that content.

 

I do, however, think that they any Solo mode should be one-time deals per character, just like all the non-repeatable missions in the game are. I've said the same about Solo FPs as well in the past, but that would probably feel like "punishing" players to change how those work now. I just think that if you want to see the story, you get a chance to see it solo once per character, just like with 90% of the missions in the game, so you can play out "your own personal Star Wars story on your own terms. If you want to repeatedly see it, however, you should have to group up and contribute to filling out the groups looking to run that content.

Edited February 6, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Avinler]

Not everything can be solo content. Not everything can be group content. BioWare's biggest mistakes come from trying to please everyone instead of creating content for the target audience and making other content for other target audiences.

 

That said, there's already a solo version of Temple of Sacrifice from a story perspective. I don't think that's an unreasonable example of a story alternative to an operation. An operation like Explosive Conflict though has limited story value outside of itself, so I don't see the value or methodology to make a story alternate path for an Operation like EC. That's like saying there should be a solo version of a warzone to allow solo players to experience the story that frames the PVP warzone because neither Explosive Conflict nor Novar Coast matter to the broader character story or galactic story really.

[Avinler]

But one of the big sticking points with developing Ops has always been how resource-intensive they are to produce when compared with the number / percentage of players who end up seeing them. The big reason I support the idea of solo Ops is that it will likely expand the number / percentage of players who actually benefit from the development of that content.

 

This has become internet canon, but the case for it is based on a small number of quotes and articles. I think the actions of studios, including BioWare recently, speak louder than a few articles over the last 10 years making this claim. All content has meaningful development costs and the specific costs of development are based on many management decisions along the way.

 

If it were truly a vocal minority interested in Operations then BioWare wouldn't be developing one. The fact that they've pivoted so sharply back toward Operations content says that a large number of players want that content.

[DarthDymond]

If it were truly a vocal minority interested in Operations then BioWare wouldn't be developing one. The fact that they've pivoted so sharply back toward Operations content says that a large number of players want that content.

I think saying "clearly Ops are a worthwhile investment if BW has made the decision to develop one" is a bit questionable when BW clearly made the decision not to develop any for a solid two years. That decision was probably based on their perception of "what players want" relative to the cost of production as well, and that decision came after three years of producing Ops.

Edited February 6, 2017 by DarthDymond

[Andryah]

If it were truly a vocal minority interested in Operations then BioWare wouldn't be developing one. The fact that they've pivoted so sharply back toward Operations content says that a large number of players want that content.

 

LMAO.

 

Yeah... that new tiled approach to OPs is a sharp reaction pivot to players wants/needs.

 

If you truly believe that claim.. then you are precisely the kind of customer the studio likes... one who is easily impressed and easily fooled. They are throwing players a bone here to shut them up for a while... nothing more, nothing less. It's a chapter version of OPs... along the same mold and approach as the story has been in 4.0 and 5.0.

 

So.. NO.. sorry.. but that piecemeal release of one OP over a period of 6 months =/= validation that a large number of players want that content.

 

We can all push the noodle around the table making claims about how many people play raids and how many do not in MMOs... but it's a useless exercise. Even those MMOs who do cater more to raiders have freely admitted it is not anywhere close to a majority of their players that are served by raid content, AND have also gone on record as to how labor intensive raids are.

 

The more hardcore an MMO is... the more likely it is to attract more radiers, and the better the ROI for them to continue to produce said content. But hardcore is NOT the direction most MMOs are heading.. because that is not what most of the market is interested in. Even WoW, which has served raiders probably the best over time in MMOs, is not doing content in the hardcore end game manner that they used to.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Andryah

[Ralei]

While I would love a solo conclusion to the Oricon story line, I really doubt one would ever be done, things like that really need to be done during development rather than trying to go back and design ways to do it alone.

 

I do wonder however, just how many players would still be calling for solo operations had it not been for the fact Bioware dropped a solo quest line right in the middle of a operation story line that required the final operations to make sense of the solo quest line without the abrupt ending? I know that this is my main issue with Oricon as bioware consider the solo part a 'purple' mission and put it on the mission console along with the other expansion stories as a 'essential' story quest.

 

Honestly though, what I have heard of 5.2 worries me as they keep talking about how 5.2 will be like Oricon as I see it as the solo story won't resole itself without the operation just like Oricon. Had they compared it more with SOR I would have been happier as I felt SOR had the better mix of group and solo play yet both playstyles offered a full resolution.

 

Yep, this completely mirrors my thoughts.

[psandak]

Personally, I would love to see a single-player alternative added to Oricon so if you like Ops, you do Dread Fortress and Dread Palace like normal, but if not, then you can choose to do something like the final fight on Yavin IV - a straight fight against the Dread Masters with your companion/s and multiple NPCs at your side.

Where would the harm be in that?

 

That would be ideal, but don't get your hopes up. basically BW did what ALL OTHER MMO publishers do: they put something out there, got feedback and the next time they put something similar out there they made some alterations, but NEVER look back. They found that not everyone wanted to or could do the Oricon ops to complete that story, so with SOR they gave players an option: solo or group. Funny thing is, most players probably chose solo for the simple fact that it was more expeditious; they could finish the story faster on their own time. Not to mention all the bugs in ToS at the time, so completing the story through the op was crap shoot at best.

 

More irony: BW probably saw those numbers - most players choosing the solo path - and said, "well that answers that...players want more solo content." And so they gave us KOTFE and KOTET, mostly solo content expansions. IF the ToS op had not been so buggy and IF that op had not been a PuG destroyer because it was difficult even if it did not bug out more players might have chosen the group content route and maybe FE/ET might have been designed very differently.

 

Unsure if this has been posted but here's my two cents on the topic.

 

Operations in general should be more accessible by the general population. I'm more considering new players that are trying to get into the PvE scene or players that have played for a while but never really gotten into the PvE side of things, i.e just been a PvPer/solo player.

 

I'm not saying we should have a super easy mode but we should have a queue system that works a bit better then our current one that puts us in a group to do said operation. If you've ever played WoW you'll be familiar with raid finder. I feel this is what SWTOR needs to get people to at least try it out. I believe it would inspire people to move up in difficulty.

 

I'm not sure if we have the population to handle this but it would be interesting to see how it goes.

 

I was playing WoW when raid finder was introduced and it was one of the reasons why I quit that game. WoW's "raider finder" was a "super easy mode". It was basically tank and spank every boss. But even then, WOWRF had the same issue that SWTOR Ops GF has - players would queue as tanks and healers when they were in fact DPS and so they had to be kicked and the rest of the raid had to wait for a proper tank/healer to get in. SWTOR's population has done the right thing: form up BEFORE queuing so the group can make sure they have the proper set of roles. THAT'S the issue: players want to just queue and go do something else while they wait for it to pop, but with Ops you need to go to fleet and look for groups forming or form one yourself.

[Mubrak]

That said, the idea of running ops with 7-15 OP companions makes me giggle.

Well, it works nice for the final Revan fight. As long as the companions are scripted well enough to heed mechanics, and all you need to do is survive yourself, it's a nice change to the usual companion "AI" where you have to tell them to get out of stupid and then to continue fighting once they're out of that circle. But since Revan IS a scripted fight it gets old after doing it the second or third time; there isn't much that can go wrong unless you find it challenging to carry the bubbles to the same-colored circles.

 

Still, Revan only really works because you actually have something to do. Without such a mechanic that involves you directly, a companion-op would be a self-running scripted fight, where you are just a bystander. It would be easier for BW to simply add a terminal to each op entrance where you can see the cutscenes with your character, and progress the story quest.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Mubrak

[Kawiki]

While my initial reaction was no, this might be a way to appease the solo crowd and the raid crowd also. New Raids with a solo option. Edited February 6, 2017 by Kawiki

[GalacticKegger]

I`m a player that HAS to do ALL of the story content in every game I play. Though that is no longer possible in this game.

And I`m a player that HAS to do ALL of the story content with my wife in every game I play. Though that has not been possible in this game since SoR was released December 2nd, 2014. Which, combined with a 2-year full group end game drought killing our guild (and now Galactic Command burying it) is why I'm going back to preferred next month.

 

Completing certain ops (Explosive Conflict) has become impossible. Not enough people are willing to do ops anymore. Some days I can`t even get one person to join me. And on those rare occasions that I actually manage to get an ops group together, they always, ALWAYS, quit halfway through because it`s "too hard." Before anyone says anything, yes it`s always set on story mode. On that note, if it`s possible to make solo mode flashpoints, why can`t there be solo mode ops? Especially, if there`s going to be a new op next month. I know there are players that do ops just to get command xp that know what I`m talking about.

 

Didn't the Livestream on the 26th announce both a solo operations track and a group operations track?

 

I would also like to point out, that in the 5 years that I`ve been playing this game, I`ve only completed 2 ops in that entire time, both on story mode.

Who agrees with me?

 

The walls in my Nar Shaddaa stronghold are plastered with Ops boss and achievement portraits because I'm in a guild that rocked (past tense). We had two separate 16-man groups plus alternates, PvP and GSF nights, and there was always groups forming up for something. We weren't hard core by any stretch (other than we played a lot) and when it was active in SWTOR we were as serious about not being serious as we were about progression. So being active in a good guild and not being a recluse looking for carries is the cure-all for playing group content in any MMO.

 

Guilds leaving from the lack of guild-centric group content is why there are so few remaining and CXP just made it worse ... regardless of how many times BW uses the word "operations" in a sentence. So i'm not sure what else to say other than (unless I heard wrong) stay tuned for more solo ops track information.

 

Honestly, they should get rid of all group content in SWTOR, rebrand it as the single player KOTOR 3 RPG they can afford to support, and let Disney license the Star Wars MMO to a MMO developer who gets it. That will give Star Wars solo story enthusiasts their own undiluted RPG while giving traditional Star Wars MMO enthusiasts their own undiluted MMO ... at which point both camps can put it back in their pants and get on with playing their respective games.

Edited February 6, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Mubrak]

While my initial reaction was no, this might be a way to appease the solo crowd and the raid crowd also. New Raids with a solo option.

 

The only real offender is Oricon. SoR did it right: To finish the story you can either do a raid or the dailies, and then get the same conclusion of the story quest. Still, I wonder how many raiders are actually doing ToS rather than finishing the story solo, and then later do the Op IF they actually plan to raid with that char.

[Jedi_riches]

The only real offender is Oricon. SoR did it right: To finish the story you can either do a raid or the dailies, and then get the same conclusion of the story quest. Still, I wonder how many raiders are actually doing ToS rather than finishing the story solo, and then later do the Op IF they actually plan to raid with that char.

 

I also agreed that SOR handled balanced solo and group play the best of all the game so far, I mean yes you had story yet at the same time it came mingled with flashpoints (yes the forged alliances was originally group only but got converted as part of 4.0 prelude) which could be done on your own or as a group flashpoint, then at the end you had TOS or the dailies again a solo or group option to get to the end of the story. Its in this mix I feel bioware would have the MOST success with to appease both raiders and solo players and should be trying to emulate going forward.

[craggy]

My initial reaction was "Hell yeah!" but reading some of the criticism made me rethink that. As a mostly solo player it'd be great to get to experience some of the story moments that I've missed out on through my anti-social play-style. But in the games I have run raids on, those were something special, and it'd be sad if SWTOR took that away from the folks who did, not to mention the extra work it'd require. If it's around equal work to create something new for a solo player as it is to modify specifically created group content to work for a solo player, I'd rather the former, as that still leaves the Ops as a potential alternate path for people who do both, or fancy a change, as well a hopefully reducing the potential for catastrophe.

 

I'm not saying that sometimes changes to a part of this game can cause serious issues (either within the game itself or sometimes its players) but....

[Thepyrethatburns]

I'd be down with this as long as it was done the same as solo FPs (no loot) and they included Shroud/Seeds in on the solo option.

[Thurenost]

I like the idea

[YungDemon]

"Issa no from me dawg."

[JLazarillo]

If an Operation is completely independent, then I see no reason for there to be a solo alternative. Eternity Vault, Ravagers, (possibly the upcoming one, it remains to be seen) there's no need. The Dread Master stuff really needs a solo-equivalent to check off, IMO, just because there's a lot of solo content that refers back to it. If it were possible to avoid it completely in the solo content, that would be one thing, but as it is, I really think an alternative should be available.

[Nightblazer]

Lol Swtor will add solo mode operations when WoW adds solo mode raids for all end game max level raids. Edited April 10, 2017 by Nightblazer

[mmmbuddah]

I don't have problem with it if they remove all gear and give reduced cxp.

 

This. But honestly i would prefer them concentrate on new content first before rehashing MORE content for solo players.

[Gelious]

Nope, nope, nope and nope.

 

If you dont have anybody to do SM ops with, find a raiding guild.

 

If you dont have enough people on your server, considering moving to another one or rerolling there.

 

I am all for solo and story content, but ops are for groups only. There is nothing there to see for one person, no dialogs, and all cutscenes are the same.

 

WoW can have solo raids, because it has plenty of raids in every addon, so it doesnt have to scale them and old raids become obsolete, unless you want achieves, cosmetic gear, or just see them one time.

 

SWTOR doesnt work that way, raids are all the same and always scaled to current max level, no point in having solo mode.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Gelious