We don't want it, we're vocal about not wanting it. What logic is there in cxp?

[Andryah]

They aren't bleeding any more players then any other change to the game in the past. Sorry to burst your bubble. You must grind in a mmo. It forces you to be online everyday. You might wanna learn about mmo's since you seem to be new to them.

 

/Agree.

 

Active player data shows we are still up modestly over pre-5.0 on those servers that are not the old PvP servers (which are largely abandoned now).

 

What did not happen this year was we did not see as large a spike in player activity after 5.0 released, and frankly there is little evidence this was specifically because of GC, but more about the studio continuing their direction with chapters, and no new raid content or new PvP maps. Players dependent on end game group content (and who doe not consider anything other then raids or PvP to be group content at end game) saw little reason to return just for 5.0. It's just that GC is everyone's favorite flogging target right now.

 

But players making complaint threads have no issues with creating alternative facts to suit their narrative.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Andryah

[AmadanNaBrona]

I agree with the poster above, it seems people do not understand how RPGs work. Some of the fun of an RPG is getting the gear. IDK though, explain where I am wrong if you think I am missing something.

 

Where you are wrong is the that it is NOT FUN in grinding to NOT get any gear. I am now GC levelvet 253. I have opened up 73 tier 3 crates and have not gotten any usable pieces.

 

I understand grind for gear, but right now all we have is a grind for nothing.

[Radzkie]

And you think the "chinese (they aren't even chinese) grinder models" have a smaller player base because of RNG? They have a smaller base because you can choose from alot different games. There is no big name like Warcraft, Final Fantasy or Star Wars. Certain games are around as long as WoW and yes, even WoW got grind on a RNG base afaik.

 

RNG is not the devil. Accept it. The only thing I'm saying is: RNG could be around way more and the only solution. Be happy that BW brought back your beloved tokensystem, which was /dice-RNG too.

I think those grinders are not as sucessful because of everything you listed, yes. Just because theres many of them doesn't mean one couldnt become very sucessful if that model was that sucessful to begin with.

 

I never said RNG was the devil, or any other dramatized bit you added.

 

Also gearing pre5.0 in ops was not RNG for me. The groups I ran with planned who got what gear. A couple raid runs they gave every drop to me.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Radzkie

[DanNV]

If you're losing money because of the galactic command system, what possible reason is there in keeping it around? You're bleeding players because of this system.

 

I expect because Ben's job depends on it. He sold it to execs as the way to keep subs. If he admits it failed, he's probably out.

 

And for the people who say the fame isn't loosing subs in a hurry, look at server populations, compare year over year. The game is Well below last year and it's 2 months closer to the expansion. The only server close to what it was pre 5.0 is Harbinger and it's there because of people transfering from dead servers to it. Shadowloands is down to the level of Begeren Colony or a bit lower. Try getting a pug to fill out an ops group. It took over 10 minutes to get a DPS. Want more, look at the qualifying accounts in your guilds. Even the big one I'm in on Harbinger has fewer (by a good number) than it did 3 weeks ago. Then look at BW's actions since launch of 5.0. How many damage control streams? How any announcements about announcements? How many supposed "fixes" since launch? BW only reacts that way when players are leaving in large numbers.

 

2 more days of sub.

[Methylium]

There are many indications that you are wrong. The actions of the studio, the server populations, and Google trend data all suggest that most players dislike the state of the game so much that they've left entirely.

 

Show me numbers to prove what you are saying. You can't? To bad. I still enjoy the game and many people I know do the same. There is no need for those to post in forums or even read this bickering and hatestuff certain people spam here.

And the action of the studio? If I would work at BW I would say "shut up idiots", but they probably won't. So they decided to give you a finger with tokens and people want to rip off the whole arm. Some are never happy, complaining just to complain. Even not released games are dead, if devs don't accept their only viable opinion. Things never change.

 

Stay strong BW, youre game is awesome.

[fushnchips]

If you're losing money because of the galactic command system, what possible reason is there in keeping it around? You're bleeding players because of this system.

 

I like the RNG aspect it's no different to other MMO games such as FFXIV, WoW, they are all RNG as well on what gear you get if you get any and to be honest I'm against the topic of the thread I have been a sub since Beta and have gone through all of the different gearing strats this game has had to offer from the battlemaster,champion bags to the loot drops in operations that were dropping class tokens so if you never had a certain class in that team the loot was wasted because the token was worthless.

 

I like how they are increasing the CXP earned but also I think the quality item rates should be increased along with it and that's about as good as we need.

[Radzkie]

I like the RNG aspect it's no different to other MMO games such as FFXIV, WoW, they are all RNG as well on what gear you get if you get any

 

Wrong, FF14 has a token system for all endgame tier gear. If you dont roll high on a drop you will be able to buy one at its ilevel anyway. Even the highest tier has tokens, and that gear costs only a reasonble amount. 8 tokens for the best chest etc.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Radzkie

[fushnchips]

Wrong, FF14 has a token system for all endgame tier gear. If you dont roll high on a drop you will be able to buy one at its ilevel anyway. Even the highest tier has tokens, and for a reasonble amount. 8 tokens for the best chest etc.

 

Last time i done 24M raiding in FFXIV you got locked on gear if you won but that bit of gear that dropped was not always something you could use they were random bits so it was RNG. But I have not played any of the new raids since I left the game.

[Radzkie]

Last time i done 24M raiding in FFXIV you got locked on gear if you won but that bit of gear that dropped was not always something you could use they were random bits so it was RNG. But I have not played any of the new raids since I left the game.

Even then it was not "all RNG" as you claimed in your original post. You still got tokens from it and many parts of the game that allowed you to buy the same ilevel gear.

 

FF14 has always had token gear, the only newer tokens are the ones for the highest teir. And none of the 24man drop or have dropped the highest teir.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Radzkie

[eriksarcasm]

I expect because Ben's job depends on it. He sold it to execs as the way to keep subs. If he admits it failed, he's probably out.

 

And for the people who say the fame isn't loosing subs in a hurry, look at server populations, compare year over year. The game is Well below last year and it's 2 months closer to the expansion. The only server close to what it was pre 5.0 is Harbinger and it's there because of people transfering from dead servers to it. Shadowloands is down to the level of Begeren Colony or a bit lower. Try getting a pug to fill out an ops group. It took over 10 minutes to get a DPS. Want more, look at the qualifying accounts in your guilds. Even the big one I'm in on Harbinger has fewer (by a good number) than it did 3 weeks ago. Then look at BW's actions since launch of 5.0. How many damage control streams? How any announcements about announcements? How many supposed "fixes" since launch? BW only reacts that way when players are leaving in large numbers.

 

2 more days of sub.

 

PUG groups are notoriously unreliable. I saw someone struggling to get a partner to run Hoth Heroics last night. That's not a matter of population so much as it is other factors. For group content, I think lots of players are hesitant to run them with strangers; they'd rather do it with people they know, people that can be relied upon to perform. Even in my very limited experience, I have a short list of people I'd rather do and not do Flashpoints with. That's especially true for OPS. Couple with that the random nature of the GC window (you don't know what Flashpoint you're signing up for until after you click "Ready" and you don't even know what level Operation you're signing up for thru GC, much less which Operation)

[Daniellcarlson]

Any group of two qualifies as we....the poster can find at least one other poster on these boards that agrees with him so he can use we. You are not the only other person besides him that plays this game...although if they don't fix their mess that might change. Keep using we, because we are not happy that the devs are not listening and keep saying they are.

 

k, how does this sound, "We want cxp. please dont change it because we approve of what you're doing BW"

 

we are right that does sound good when you say it

[Methylium]

k, how does this sound, "We want cxp. please dont change it because we approve of what you're doing BW"

 

we are right that does sound good when you say it

 

Sounds right. We want CXP and GC to stay. Otherwise we will rage, we will quit and this game will bleed subs like mad!

[Andryah]

PUG groups are notoriously unreliable. I saw someone struggling to get a partner to run Hoth Heroics last night. That's not a matter of population so much as it is other factors. For group content, I think lots of players are hesitant to run them with strangers; they'd rather do it with people they know, people that can be relied upon to perform. Even in my very limited experience, I have a short list of people I'd rather do and not do Flashpoints with. That's especially true for OPS. Couple with that the random nature of the GC window (you don't know what Flashpoint you're signing up for until after you click "Ready" and you don't even know what level Operation you're signing up for thru GC, much less which Operation)

 

^^ Very much agree with this assessment.

 

I can remember back in the day.. when random, ad hoc, grouping was par for the course in leveling up characters in older MMOs. And back in the day... people were generally friendly, social, and cooperative in the process. Sure.. you would run across a few d-bags here and there, but that is what your ignore list was for. Then.......

 

..... WoW happened... and within a few years.... the entire dynamic of random grouping changes in the genre. People became inpatient, impersonal, only caring about zipping through the content asap, and generally could care less for fellow group mates. There were still good random players to be found, but it eventually became a complete crap shoot. Hence, about 7 years ago I stopped doing PuGs... period.. full stop. If I needed a group to do something, a simple request in guild chat resulted in a full group within minutes to do what needed to be done.

 

Guild grouping = good (unless you are in a really bad guild, in which case find a new guild).

Friends grouping = good (if they are available and online at the same time).

Random grouping = 70% chance of your time being wasted, frustrations, and probably lack of success. (those are poor odds, and not worthy of wasting time in my view).

 

That said, as MMOs became more and more solo friendly... this problem with random grouping deteriorated further over time. And it has deteriorated beyond recovery in the MMO genre in my view... which should bode well long term for good solid guilds that play a diverse set of content.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Andryah

[Avinler]

/Agree.

Active player data shows we are still up modestly over pre-5.0 on those servers that are not the old PvP servers (which are largely abandoned now).

 

What active player data? The amount of players in game is down based on the numbers of instances and number of players in those instances. The Google trends method that has a logical, data-driven methodology shows the game in its lowest point to date. And BioWare itself is making drastic changes to the game at a high frequency, that is the behavior of a business scrambling to stop a problem, not of a game that's stable or growing its population.

[Avinler]

You know the server populations? Wow. Any chance you can cite those sources?

 

The in-game user interface that tells you how many instances there are and how many players are in that instance. The queue times for group content are longer than ever. The amount of instances of the GroupFinder Operation each day are well below previous levels. The Google trends method was discussed at length on Ootinicast this week as well and shows the same.

 

The fact that there's any question that the server populations are down significantly is laughable. Please provide a single piece of evidence to the contrary? No one outside BioWare can provide official statistics, but I've provided multiple circumstantial data points that all show the same thing and you've only provided a snarky retort to try to discredit me. I'll let my years of work in this community and the circumstantial evidence that's available speak for itself, if that's not good enough for you then enjoy living in the version of reality you choose, it doesn't matter to me either way.

[Avinler]

Show me numbers to prove what you are saying. You can't? To bad. I still enjoy the game and many people I know do the same. There is no need for those to post in forums or even read this bickering and hatestuff certain people spam here.

And the action of the studio? If I would work at BW I would say "shut up idiots", but they probably won't. So they decided to give you a finger with tokens and people want to rip off the whole arm. Some are never happy, complaining just to complain. Even not released games are dead, if devs don't accept their only viable opinion. Things never change.

 

Stay strong BW, youre game is awesome.

 

So I'm hateful because I provide rational insight and analysis based on the available information, even if that information is circumstantial and imperfect? I still enjoy many aspects of the game, but won't apologize for providing specific constructive criticism on the game. I can still enjoy rolling a new Jedi alt on Tython with the beautiful environment and deep storylines while providing rational observations and criticisms about Galactic Command.

 

If enough players thought Galactic Command was awesome they wouldn't be changing it. If enough players enjoyed the story focus of the last two expansions they wouldn't be changing it. The actions of the studio are the ultimate evidence because their motivation is simple - make a game that attracts and retains as many paying customers as possible. I've already cited other specific evidence in other replies so I won't repeat them again. I think it is telling that all of these replies I received were just "you can't prove that" instead of offering a single rational counter argument. Everyone knows that none of us have specific metrics on the game, you aren't providing some shocking or scathing insight by sarcastically pointing out that I can't post official metrics on server populations.

[Andryah]

What active player data? The amount of players in game is down based on the numbers of instances and number of players in those instances. The Google trends method that has a logical, data-driven methodology shows the game in its lowest point to date. And BioWare itself is making drastic changes to the game at a high frequency, that is the behavior of a business scrambling to stop a problem, not of a game that's stable or growing its population.

 

To claim that the servers are at their lowest point to date is incorrect. To say that we never got the large surge with the release of 5.0 that we got with the release of 4.0 would however be a correct observation.

 

The relative loading tracker at torstatus (use the mirror site now) shows the active concurrent player levels for a given server, over time. That is the clearest objective measure of how a server is performing, compared to itself, over time. It does not give absolute numbers, nor does it have to.. because it is a relative measure for that server.

 

Using http://mirror.torstatus.net, the active servers in NA (ie: ignore the three dead ones) are up and have remained up in active population since 5.0 dropped. [The only one we cannot get a clear view of that is still active is Begeren Colony as it has hovered at/below 1.0 for some time, but did move up to 1.05 in December, so set that one aside]. That said... the servers are showing signs of starting to taper off after 5.0 now, which is to be expected as the same relative tapering off happens every year about 3-4 months after an expac drops.

 

Note: You cannot compare one server to another with torstatus because many of them are configured for different full population loads. For example, Harbinger is known to be the largest server configuration in the North America servers, as they have increased it's capacity a couple of times over the years, most recently a few weeks after 4.0 went live and the server was struggling with loading issues.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Andryah

[jimmorrisson]

Bring back gear vendors.

 

Keep CXP for the few who play enjoy grinding Fractured 24/7 just to open hundreds of packs.

[AmadanNaBrona]

Just opened my 76th Tier3 crate. No useable Tier3 gear yet.

[Avinler]

To claim that the servers are at their lowest point to date is incorrect. To say that we never got the large surge with the release of 5.0 that we got with the release of 4.0 would however be a correct observation.

 

The relative loading tracker at torstatus (use the mirror site now) shows the active concurrent player levels for a given server, over time. That is the clearest objective measure of how a server is performing, compared to itself, over time. It does not give absolute numbers, nor does it have to.. because it is a relative measure for that server.

 

Using http://mirror.torstatus.net, the active servers in NA (ie: ignore the three dead ones) are up and have remained up in active population since 5.0 dropped. [The only one we cannot get a clear view of that is still active is Begeren Colony as it has hovered at/below 1.0 for some time, but did move up to 1.05 in December, so set that one aside]. That said... the servers are showing signs of starting to taper off after 5.0 now, which is to be expected as the same relative tapering off happens every year about 3-4 months after an expac drops.

 

Note: You cannot compare one server to another with torstatus because many of them are configured for different full population loads. For example, Harbinger is known to be the largest server configuration in the North America servers, as they have increased it's capacity a couple of times over the years, most recently a few weeks after 4.0 went live and the server was struggling with loading issues.

 

Unless there's new functionality that I'm not aware of, that website only provides data for 30-60 days at a time. The server capacities also change over time, that's why I've always favored the Google trends method over the server status method. Google trends is no less an imperfect proxy than server status in my opinion, but everyone can decide their own preferences certainly.

[Soul_of_Flames]

Honestly, I wouldn't call farming CXP a "grind."

 

The term grind references how you might grind a blade to become sharper and more efficient. When you grind things in an MMO, you are slowly making your character better through small repetitive actions.

 

CXP farming isn't doing that. You're running around collecting CXP and earning crates. But, because the crates have no guarantee in what they contain, you can't really classify it as grinding. If, for example, they said "At command rank 50, you are guaranteed a chest piece drop!" Then I would consider it to be grinding. But, when you don't know what you are even working to get, it's not grinding, it's just gambling your time away.

[StupidWiz]

It seems you actually never played any RPG outside of this one. SW:ToR is way to easy to gear up. If you ever played a REAL MMORPG you would find droprates like ~5% for really good gear from a harder boss respawning every 6 to 8 hours. You would find out you need to farm way more of the same enemy than the guy getting Rank 100 in the first 3 days only to get an important drop with a 0,01% chance. Oh and did I mention that - in REAL MMORPGs - your gear can actually BREAK while enhancing it? POOF gone. Start again from zero. Most of those games even sell stuff to make all this chances slightly better.

 

Try it. You'll crawl back into SW:ToR because you never have seen a real grind with real RNG.

This.

[Smuglebunny]

Remove Rng

[Vinak]

Bioware devs are under the impression they can do no wrong. The system simply needs some tweaks.

 

 

It's a classic mistake done by many devs teams in the past. It turns out listening to the people paying you're salary works out better in the end.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Vinak

[DanNV]

Bioware devs are under the impression they can do no wrong. The system simply needs some tweaks.

 

It's a classic mistake done by many devs teams in the past. It turns out listening to the people paying you're salary works out better in the end.

 

The problem is, each team doesn't figure that out until after the end, or they blame it on something else and go on to another game to make the same mistakes.

 

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