Galactic Command Gearing Roadmap - Coming This Week

[TUXs]

Operation gear ALWAYS had RNG so no reason set bonus gear shouldn't still have RNG

100% wrong. Operation gear was static and could be farmed for just the items someone needed.

 

Your loot rolls against other players, that was random...but the gear was not.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I think it is fair to make that argument that these changes, or any changes have been too slow in coming and not doing what is really being asked for.

 

That's not an argument, that's a statement and a blatantly obvious one at that.

Are they going to somehow time travel and make it happen quicker? Perhaps undo 5.0 changes altogether ( that would be nice ). No, so what is the point in all that type of salt in this thread?

 

Its not like this issue just came up a week ago, a month ago, or even three. There was talk on these boards and in other places about this before it was released. They have been saying they are watching and listening but has that solved the real issue many have with the system, has it even started to address it?

 

Yup and clearly Ben n co. thought they were right, they thought they knew best and we would love it. We did not and now they are working to remedy it ( even if his ego won't allow him to wholesale admit he was wrong and replace this system ).

 

It almost fells like people are jumping on this thread more to complain now that they are announcing changes and goals than when they were vague and saying nothing much at all.

 

 

RNG is the issue many have posted about and yet none of this changes or diminishes RNG. Simply speeding up the rate doesn't change the fact the crates are junk because too many have nothing of value in them.

 

Simply speeding up the rate doesn't change the fact the crates are junk because too many have nothing of value in them. It still is a self defeating method of gearing because every time you get nothing you feel less like doing more, and it spirals down from there. If there was always sometihing of value, some step forward in each crate maybe that would be something. But there isn't and so we have this aggressively negative view of them that gets worse and worse as time goes by all the while we are told they are listening.....that just adds to the frustration. Don't tell me you are listening and then not act to help with the real issue. That is the very height of pouring salt into an open wound.

 

I wish people would be more clear in their dislike of RNG though. If it's set bonus and the poster was previously getting gear from operations - that was always RNG. It's the non set bonus and PVP gear RNG that is most annoying because we didn't have RNG for that before.

 

I agree with the lack of value in the crates - they quickly lose any value which is why in a post above I put an idea on how they could improve that.

 

You probably should also avoid reading reddit around mined data around gearing spotted in 5.2 also - it might make you even angrier.

 

So yes the longer they fail to act the more negative things get. I do agrue they have known the issue for a long time, they have also failed to address it. Why did they put pieces that drop off the final boss in an operation that still require you to open crates? Its not needed or wanted, it doesn't really act as a gate for the most part anyone who gets one of those pieces more then certainly has the tokens for it. So why bother to keep it tied to the crates when all that does is cause dissent? I think if they really wanted to give us a decent change to the system that would appeal to many they would have dropped that, but they didn't; because it seems taking the crates out of the gear equation is an evil just not allowed. Which is the very opposite of what some people want. To gear up without having to touch the crate system at all.

 

Yes and that's fine but I think threads like this are burying some good posts with good suggestions on ideas to actually fix it for everyone to pick up and discuss those ( i.e. constructive ) behind walls of "it's broken, I hate it, fix it" and then when they think they are "fixing it" it's more "not good enough, fit it more".

 

I'm not saying everyone shouldn't be expressing their displeasure with the system but everyone who does so should at least try stress improvements as they seem them as they post or support another post/idea they've read.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Er what? The only random drops in Ops were the non-set pieces. The thing people cared about -- set pieces -- were deterministic.

 

Distribution was up to how the raid wanted to handle it. If you cared enough about completing your sets then you'd commit to a team. If you depended on PUG's well that's your gamble.

 

I know gabigool's proposed an LFR difficulty. If that ever sees the light of day then sure I can see the need for a Personal Loot system. SM I'm ambivalent on. HM and NiM really should give control over distribution to the raid team's management.

 

Well gear rolling was what I meant. Even within guilds ( from my personal experience YMMV ) most gear was still RNG during early stages of progression. Even later on it was still RNG between you and how ever many other people needed that piece. Difference was gear would be fair in that those that had it wouldn't get to roll for more of it.

 

Non set pieces could be handled exactly the same way so there was no mechanical difference there, just a choice of the group/guild.

[TUXs]

If it's set bonus and the poster was previously getting gear from operations - that was always RNG.

You either don't understand what RNG is, or you never ran Ops before 5.0.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

100% wrong. Operation gear was static and could be farmed for just the items someone needed.

 

Your loot rolls against other players, that was random...but the gear was not.

 

How can it be 100% wrong when you just used the term "loot rolls" - are you implying that's not RNG?

100% doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

As I mentioned earlier people need to be MORE specific when talking about RNG. I'll give you a couple of examples.

 

The RNG in crates that means we can get the same piece twice is horrible, we should be getting tokens.

The RNG in crates that means I didn't get a set piece in 90 levels is horrible, the odds need changing.

 

Same term, different meanings.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

You either don't understand what RNG is, or you never ran Ops before 5.0.

 

If you roll for gear it is using a Random Number Generator - I think you're the one who clearly has no concept of what RNG means.

You seem to have decided it means only one thing and thus are vague and often hard to interpret exactly what you're talking about.

[TUXs]

How can it be 100% wrong when you just used the term "loot rolls" - are you implying that's not RNG?

100% doesn't mean what you think it means.

 

As I mentioned earlier people need to be MORE specific when talking about RNG. I'll give you a couple of examples.

 

The RNG in crates that means we can get the same piece twice is horrible, we should be getting tokens.

The RNG in crates that means I didn't get a set piece in 90 levels is horrible, the odds need changing.

 

Same term, different meanings.

No...it's not the same. Regardless of how you try to back out of it, it's not at all the same thing. You confused a loot roll for what was guaranteed to drop. They're two very different things.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No...it's not the same. Regardless of how you try to back out of it, it's not at all the same thing. You confused a loot roll for what was guaranteed to drop. They're two very different things.

 

No, you confused it because you are so single minded in what you think RNG means.

 

Perhaps in the future we should all try being more clear on what we mean and not use such generic terms.

[TUXs]

If you roll for gear it is using a Random Number Generator - I think you're the one who clearly has no concept of what RNG means.

You seem to have decided it means only one thing and thus are vague and often hard to interpret exactly what you're talking about.

No...it's you. The loot was guaranteed to drop prior to 5.x. Nothing was random about it in any way.

[Sarova]

Thanks for this update - it's nice to see that the feedback surveys we did were read, our suggestions noted and significant changes are being considered, especially for alts Hopefully it will lead to a much more player friendly GC system. Whilst you're listening, it would be nice to have a drop down list for Planetary Missions in the Galactic Command interface and the ability to make a pre-made group of two or three with companions making up the rest and then to do Uprisings

[jimmorrisson]

Those who are now arguing for the current CXP/Comannd Crate system are now saying Updates 3.*, 4.* were too easy to gear.

 

Bring back the most simplified system so far: Basic/Common, Elite/Glowing, Ultimate/Radiant gear vendors.

[gabigool]

No...it's you. The loot was guaranteed to drop prior to 5.x. Nothing was random about it in any way.

 

On my teams, the first four pieces of any set piece went to DPS. Next two went to heals. Next two went to tanks. Nothing random about it.

 

From the point of view of the team, it didn't matter which DPS. Team DPS went up. Team heals went up. etc.

 

Now - it's like, who PvP'ed the most on Saturday and got lucky with RNG.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No...it's you. The loot was guaranteed to drop prior to 5.x. Nothing was random about it in any way.

 

If you rolled for the loot it was RNG - it's that simple. Not sure why it's so hard for you to understand.

[TUXs]

If you rolled for the loot it was RNG - it's that simple. Not sure why it's so hard for you to understand.

That's fine...but the loot itself, the very topic you claimed has always been RNG, wan not. It was static. It was guaranteed to drop and the piece it dropped was NOT random.

[GalacticKegger]

On my teams, the first four pieces of any set piece went to DPS. Next two went to heals. Next two went to tanks. Nothing random about it.

 

From the point of view of the team, it didn't matter which DPS. Team DPS went up. Team heals went up. etc.

 

Now - it's like, who PvP'ed the most on Saturday and got lucky with RNG.

We lumped the tanks in with the DPS because our heals always rocked so hard ... courtesy of leveling flashpoints where players leveled through the planets, learning to gear up and adapt as they went. Now everything is bolstered leaving newer players confused and fewer guilds to mentor them. The entire end game infrastructure (which really began with leveling Hammer Station prior to KotFE) was left to rot, and will have to be reinforced or this is all a duct tape and bubble gum kluging exercise. Edited February 2, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[MeNaCe-NZ]

That's fine...but the loot itself, the very topic you claimed has always been RNG, wan not. It was static. It was guaranteed to drop and the piece it dropped was NOT random.

 

I wasn't talking about whether or not a boss dropped it, I was talking about how we achieved the gear. This was clearly clarified earlier on yet you keep on with it for some reason.

 

If you want change and improvement with the system try being more clear and concise as to what you want changed in regards to RNG.

[Avinler]

There is a fundamental disconnect between people regarding the previous gearing system. Rolling on gear is not RNG. Rolling on gear is a way to randomly decide which player gets that particular piece. Most players obtained gear with their guild or raid team though, and that wasn't RNG based. If you used master loot then there wasn't any rolling involved even.

 

If you were an individual player using Group Finder to run Story Mode Operations and rolling on gear drops, maybe it felt like an RNG-based system already. But that's not how most people geared up for end-game PVE content. Even so, the option for master loot was essentially an opt out that was removed from the process. Instead we were forced into a system that makes it impossible to target a specific piece for a specific member of a raid team and no way to gear up a new member of a team rapidly to replace the constant stream of players leaving the game.

[DanNV]

Common misconception (apparently) - "listening to feedback" does not mean slavishly obeying every whim expressed by a customer. It means taking customer feedback into account as one part of their overall decision-making process.

 

We're consumers, not their bosses. If we don't like the final product they put out, we can vote with our wallets, but paying a subscription doesn't give us the authority to dictate the design decisions.

 

Very true. However, they say they are listening then tell us what they heard and it isn't what we said. That's the problem with the communication.

 

Based on the apparent panic at BW, many are voting with their wallets. They just don't have the player base to let that go on for long without appeasing the players or calling it quits.

[DanNV]

Bear in mind that "5%" is just a random number I threw in as an example to illustrate the overall change in probability. Don't want it taking on a life of its own.

 

I expect the rate is much less than 5% based on the people I know and what I have seen reported. BW tends to quote numbers that don't really seem to work out as they advertise, so even if they had said 5% I expect it is closer to 1% or 2% in reality.

[DanNV]

Remove PVP gearing entirely from the game would be a solution and silence that part of the community.

 

Operation gear ALWAYS had RNG so no reason set bonus gear shouldn't still have RNG - token drops instead of X piece drops though so we can buy the item we want.

 

The rng was who would get the drop and that could be altered by the group leader. Now the RNG is will it drop at all (and with GC, what, if anything will drop.) Big difference.

 

What we are missing though is crystal gear where I could buy arguably non set bonus tier 2/3 gear with just 10 hours play with my crystals. None of this having to have gone through other tiers first to get a chance at a drop.

 

That's probably the WORST part of the whole system, the having to get to other tiers to get gear where as before I could get that gear myself from the outset.

 

I can't argue with that, it is true. But if you could buy gear that was passable, for a reasonable number of widgets, you wouldn't do the grind and Ben would be sad.

[FerkWork]

ITT casuals casualsplaining how progression Gearing works lol to progression raiders lol. GC is fine for casuals but get it out of my raiding please. Mind your own business please.

 

It ain't RNG to gear if you can set the loot schedule up as a raid team. Plus the drops were guaranteed. The fact I'm less geared than any previous expac despite spending much more time gearing shows it's trying to worsen a part of raiding with this nonesense. Please no. Put guaranteed loot back for all bosses for the relevant difficulty of the Op. No highlighted nonesense either.

Edited February 1, 2017 by FerkWork

[MeNaCe-NZ]

There is a fundamental disconnect between people regarding the previous gearing system. Rolling on gear is not RNG. Rolling on gear is a way to randomly decide which player gets that particular piece.

 

I feel we are arguing semantics here but you just said it's not RNG followed by saying "randomly" - thus RNG.

 

Most players obtained gear with their guild or raid team though, and that wasn't RNG based.

 

Every guild I've been in has been up until the point you were ideally the only person who needed the items in question. This was mostly to remove any sense of favouritism from the Raid Leader and was entirely fair ( and still got the group geared as fast as possible ).

 

If you used master loot then there wasn't any rolling involved even.

 

Technically no but aside from my guild example above every pug I've done that has ML set has had /roll for gear with limits set. The only time there was no RNG was when the leader ninja looted and ran off

 

Instead we were forced into a system that makes it impossible to target a specific piece for a specific member of a raid team and no way to gear up a new member of a team rapidly to replace the constant stream of players leaving the game.

 

They've taken a step towards fixing this as you can target end bosses but yeah ... pretty silly they didn't add it to all bosses again.

I believe the majority of the issue of why not comes from PVP and removing expertise so to add drops to all bosses again would be felt to favour PVE players and give them an edge heading into PVP.

 

This is why I'm a proponent of removing all PVP gearing in one way or another. Leave it as skill/ping.

[DanNV]

It almost fells like people are jumping on this thread more to complain now that they are announcing changes and goals than when they were vague and saying nothing much at all.

 

The problem isn't that they announced that they are announcing changes, it's that the changes are NOT what their paying customers want to pay for. That is causing them to have fewer paying customers which means a smaller budget, less employees, less development which will mean fewer paying customers, etc. Over time that only goes one place. They've just accelerated the cycle dramatically with 5.x.

 

And as to what we mean by RNG, all they have to do is look at almost 4 months of posts to figure it out if they somehow missed it. RNG is now being used as an abbreviation for the term "Galactic Command, Command crate with a random, small chance to drop some piece of decent gear with a further random, small chance that it might be a useful piece of gear." BW is well aware of the fact that we are complaining about the entire RNG based system, we don't need to beat them over the head with that bit in every post.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The rng was who would get the drop and that could be altered by the group leader. Now the RNG is will it drop at all (and with GC, what, if anything will drop.) Big difference.

 

Yes but the point I was trying to make overall and that TUXs seemed to fail to get as it seemed he wanted to argue for the sake of arguing ( over such a trivial point lol ) is we should endeavour to be more specific in what we want fixed and how we want it fixed because as we've both pointed out there are varying degrees of RNG.

 

Which is the one that people want fixed most? They might go and increase the drop rate on purples to assist with "RNG" which wouldn't do a damn for you getting 5 bracers in a row.

 

Constructive criticism and feedback is important but we need to make sure it's in a manner that can't leave any room for confusion ( which we can all be guilty of of course ). For example in my case I think - right, they probably aren't going to remove GC and just put back currencies as we had them so what is the minimum sort of change I want them to put in that would have me stay around for this system - and work from there.

 

If I am sticking around for the harder content that I need gear for ( the only thing short of fresh content and GTN activities I'm interested in ) then I need a means to get that gear without having to wait to get to the higher tiers, I can't be bothered with that. 5.1 helped but not enough. That's sort of my bottom line.

 

Of course now there is the lure of PTS testing that one has to sub for and of course I'm interested in 5.2 - but I don't need any better gear for that at this stage.

 

Now of course if your bottom line is "remove GC and put it back as it was" then that's cool ,each to their and that's your own version of theb est constructive feedback you can give since that's the only thing that might have you stay. Even though I feel such demands would never be met. Oh and not saying that is your bottom line personally but many make out as though it is and don't bother to try think up alternative suggestions.

Edited February 2, 2017 by MeNaCe-NZ

[MeNaCe-NZ]

ITT casuals casualsplaining how progression Gearing works lol to progression raiders lol. GC is fine for casuals but get it out of my raiding please. Mind your own business please.

 

It ain't RNG to gear if you can set the loot schedule up as a raid team. Plus the drops were guaranteed. The fact I'm less geared than any previous expac despite spending much more time gearing shows it's trying to worsen a part of raiding with this nonesense. Please no. Put guaranteed loot back for all bosses for the relevant difficulty of the Op. No highlighted nonesense either.

 

If you're not geared yet you just aren't a dedicated enough raider sorry. Try harder.