Feedback regarding unassembled components.

[Shwarzchild]

Ops are limited in what you can do this way because of the lockouts. you got one piece from them, which is actually doing really well. I got none doing the same two Tuesday and we got no extra drops from the other bosses. Now you are locked out of those two ops until next week. The step from there up to TFB in HM or SnV in HM is pretty big. The DPS checks are a lot higher. My undergeared group can't make it far in either at this point due to the DPS checks. I expect we could do Nefra, but the chance of a drop there is so small, there's no point.

 

And, most of us can't stand PvP, so your method will get you there faster, but it won't work for my group. So, we're slowly fading away as is the guild.

 

For you, the ops are new, enjoy them. Learning the mechanics can be a lot of fun if you have a raid group you mesh well with.

 

For operations even in HM....230 mods and enhancements (crafted) with your old 220/224 armorings are more than sufficient to clear 99 percent of the bosses you'll face. You can even go and kill NiM Nefra a bunch in that gear to farm schematics. While you won't kill Styrak, and probably Revan you can easily kill a ton of bosses. We've now done DF, TfB, DP, EV, KP, and EC in HM so far. We've averaged 6 pieces of gear per night.

 

Edit: Full clear of SnV also as well as 4/5 Tos and 3/5 Rav. 230 gear definitely sufficient. But, these were done pre-5.1 so I don't know if gear pieces come higher due to the difficulty or if it's the same. Probably the same though.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Shwarzchild

[Mianera]

Ops are limited in what you can do this way because of the lockouts. you got one piece from them, which is actually doing really well. I got none doing the same two Tuesday and we got no extra drops from the other bosses. Now you are locked out of those two ops until next week. The step from there up to TFB in HM or SnV in HM is pretty big. The DPS checks are a lot higher. My undergeared group can't make it far in either at this point due to the DPS checks. I expect we could do Nefra, but the chance of a drop there is so small, there's no point.

 

And, most of us can't stand PvP, so your method will get you there faster, but it won't work for my group. So, we're slowly fading away as is the guild.

 

For you, the ops are new, enjoy them. Learning the mechanics can be a lot of fun if you have a raid group you mesh well with.

 

I completely feel your pain, my raid team felt the same way. Which is why I deem this system, highly unfair. We are still back at square one, being:

 

- Playing the game the way you like = not rewarding

- Playing the game the way it is designed = an unimaginable grind

 

It also raises the further question, are raid guilds now about to take in the massive horde of PvP'ers wanting to use the same shortcut? Can they be considered loyal members that will stay even if they get their gear and help others get it? Will I...?

 

I asked myself a few seconds ago, if I got my full T3 set... would I bother using 12 hours or more a week helping guildmates get their T2? Dammit.... I fell so bad, like truly.... because if I have to 100% honest, the answer is no :/

 

In the end I would want to play the aspect of the game which I enjoy most, which is PvP :'( I'm going to let them all down and leave them, it is inevitable. It's like getting a boost because I want to remain competitive in PvP on my PvP server and the fastest way to do that is by raiding in addition. I'll maybe do 1-2 ops with them afterwards out of guilt purely, but I will leave.

 

Goddamn you developers, seriously.

[americanaussie]

Awarded number of unassembled components does NOT equal effort for reasons:

 

1- Gear difference.

2. Premades (esp those on tier 3 gear)

3. Win vs Loss may be closer like overtime in two or three rounds of arena 4v4.

4. Team members may not be as strong due to gearing or pvp match knowledge.

 

So everyone is currently punished for lack of gear, other teammates inexperience or skill level, or when the teams are even but the other team slips on to win. You can GET SMASHED by doing nothing than survive for 2 mins or you can work your butt off and you get the same result. This sucks. I've accepted it so I just dont bother with pvp as often but this needs looking into. Components need increasing and arena matches should be equal to the rest because theyre random and can require more effort than node guarding. If anything arenas force you to work harder!

[americanaussie]

Oh yeah and to be fair...2 nights ago I played 6 matches.

3 - 4v4. Back to back.

1 - Quesh huttball

1 - Novare Coast

1- Voidstar

 

So maybe the house has stacked the deck against me to ensure I gather the least number of unassembled components as possible. Especially when I queued back to back and got the 4v4 in a row. 137 cxp. Not good enough. Especially for the 3 round overtime because none of us could kill each other. Hardest fight to date. Got 3 pieces and was about to blast the devs because I had been cheated out of 2 more pieces. But no. Arenas don't give 5 for a win.

[DanNV]

I completely feel your pain, my raid team felt the same way. Which is why I deem this system, highly unfair. We are still back at square one, being:

 

- Playing the game the way you like = not rewarding

- Playing the game the way it is designed = an unimaginable grind

 

It also raises the further question, are raid guilds now about to take in the massive horde of PvP'ers wanting to use the same shortcut? Can they be considered loyal members that will stay even if they get their gear and help others get it? Will I...?

 

I asked myself a few seconds ago, if I got my full T3 set... would I bother using 12 hours or more a week helping guildmates get their T2? Dammit.... I fell so bad, like truly.... because if I have to 100% honest, the answer is no :/

 

In the end I would want to play the aspect of the game which I enjoy most, which is PvP :'( I'm going to let them all down and leave them, it is inevitable. It's like getting a boost because I want to remain competitive in PvP on my PvP server and the fastest way to do that is by raiding in addition. I'll maybe do 1-2 ops with them afterwards out of guilt purely, but I will leave.

 

gosh darn you developers, seriously.

 

Well, at least you can admit it. Others wont, even to themselves.

 

And you might find you enjoy raiding enough to want to do it at least part of the time. If not, it sucks that you feel forced into doing something you don't want to do. I decided to leave instead. I'm not paying to be frustrated. It's not worth it.

[omaan]

Right, but PvP'ers are left to rot. PvE'ers will have a full set of T2 within weeks, while the PvP'er after a month is still getting the final pieces for his T1.

 

THEN the PvE'er decides that now is probably the perfect time to PvP and stomps all over everyone because with the new bolster, we are back to gear having priority over skill.

 

This is a very bizarre system....

 

Thats what i wanted to show, thanks for continuing my thoughts. Also pvp players started to run ops with a hope of getting new piece instead of useless grinding on warzones which means of course they won't que warzones as often as they did before because operations will take their time and it means less people will do pvp and less procs... I can't understand why bw teams is such dumb or ignorant

[Mianera]

Well, at least you can admit it. Others wont, even to themselves.

 

And you might find you enjoy raiding enough to want to do it at least part of the time. If not, it sucks that you feel forced into doing something you don't want to do. I decided to leave instead. I'm not paying to be frustrated. It's not worth it.

 

In the end, either way, this is a horrible way to play the game. I honestly can't imagine how someone decided this was the way to improve the game...

[DanNV]

For operations even in HM....230 mods and enhancements (crafted) with your old 220/224 armorings are more than sufficient to clear 99 percent of the bosses you'll face. You can even go and kill NiM Nefra a bunch in that gear to farm schematics. While you won't kill Styrak, and probably Revan you can easily kill a ton of bosses. We've now done DF, TfB, DP, EV, KP, and EC in HM so far. We've averaged 6 pieces of gear per night.

 

Edit: Full clear of SnV also as well as 4/5 Tos and 3/5 Rav. 230 gear definitely sufficient. But, these were done pre-5.1 so I don't know if gear pieces come higher due to the difficulty or if it's the same. Probably the same though.

 

Good for you. My group isn't managing that and most others don't seem to be either.

[DanNV]

In the end, either way, this is a horrible way to play the game. I honestly can't imagine how someone decided this was the way to improve the game...

 

I can't either. That's why I am counting down the end of my sub and only logging on to look at guild populations (which are still dropping at a pretty good rate) and to help out my raid team. One of our team is done today and we're pretty much out of alternates, I'm out in a bit over a week. BW doesn't give a damn.

[Shwarzchild]

I can't either. That's why I am counting down the end of my sub and only logging on to look at guild populations (which are still dropping at a pretty good rate) and to help out my raid team. One of our team is done today and we're pretty much out of alternates, I'm out in a bit over a week. BW doesn't give a damn.

 

This was advice given to me previously, and it's sage advice. Your group isn't entitled to beat any boss in a raid whether its story mode hard mode or nightmare. As with anything progression related if you're not getting it done then side stuff needs to be done. Have your DPS hit the dummy. Use star parse and find out how much of a gap there is. Put in the time before raid or after raid to hit the things that are causing that gap. Do not use gear as a crutch. If you want to raid at higher levels you have to be better as a player. It just comes with the territory you're trying to inhabit. Don't make excuses, and always try to do one thing better than you did last time.Examine your rotations for dps. Examine when people take damage as a healer. Examine when you can better use a DCD as a tank. Gear, and the gearing system by extension isn't what is holding your group back. Don't blame others, but rather own your mistakes and own your shortfalls and work to erase them. Tell your group that if they want to be raiding at a higher level they have to put in at max 20 minutes of dummy time pre raid if time is an issue. If that means you can't kill 5 bosses, but 3 so be it. If that means you only kill 1 instead of 3 so be it. Don't take anything out on others or systems that aren't your problem.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Shwarzchild

[Mianera]

This was advice given to me previously, and it's sage advice. Your group isn't entitled to beat any boss in a raid whether its story mode hard mode or nightmare. As with anything progression related if you're not getting it done then side stuff needs to be done. Have your DPS hit the dummy. Use star parse and find out how much of a gap there is. Put in the time before raid or after raid to hit the things that are causing that gap. Do not use gear as a crutch. If you want to raid at higher levels you have to be better as a player. It just comes with the territory you're trying to inhabit. Don't make excuses, and always try to do one thing better than you did last time.Examine your rotations for dps. Examine when people take damage as a healer. Examine when you can better use a DCD as a tank. Gear, and the gearing system by extension isn't what is holding your group back. Don't blame others, but rather own your mistakes and own your shortfalls and work to erase them. Tell your group that if they want to be raiding at a higher level they have to put in at max 20 minutes of dummy time pre raid if time is an issue. If that means you can't kill 5 bosses, but 3 so be it. If that means you only kill 1 instead of 3 so be it. Don't take anything out on others or systems that aren't your problem.

 

I think you missed the point he was making. As well as the point of this thread, which both are the grind needed to advance through the command system and to get gear is gigantic. But you have to do it if you wish to progress in either PvE and PvP.

 

On black and white that doesn't sound that bad, but the grind really really is ridiculous. And if you don't think grinding is fun, then the endgame isn't for you.

 

But you are right about one thing, I am a PvP'er and I wish to all the Gods in the universe that people that queue for pvp would spend some time on a training dummy and read a online class guide.

 

I rank top damage done in nearly every warzone, my gear isn't that good, 230 maybe on average and no augments. And I get that some classes deal a bit more damage than others, but whats the damn excuse for doing 3 or 5 times less damage? It's laziness, and those poeple loose me warzones and extend my grind.

 

There should be a training ground instance where you have to deal enough damage to a dummy within a time limit before you are allowed to queue.

[Shwarzchild]

I think you missed the point he was making. As well as the point of this thread, which both are the grind needed to advance through the command system and to get gear is gigantic. But you have to do it if you wish to progress in either PvE and PvP.

 

On black and white that doesn't sound that bad, but the grind really really is ridiculous. And if you don't think grinding is fun, then the endgame isn't for you.

 

But you are right about one thing, I am a PvP'er and I wish to all the Gods in the universe that people that queue for pvp would spend some time on a training dummy and read a online class guide.

 

I rank top damage done in nearly every warzone, my gear isn't that good, 230 maybe on average and no augments. And I get that some classes deal a bit more damage than others, but whats the damn excuse for doing 3 or 5 times less damage? It's laziness, and those poeple loose me warzones and extend my grind.

 

There should be a training ground instance where you have to deal enough damage to a dummy within a time limit before you are allowed to queue.

 

I don't think I'm missing the point. In regards to unassembled components. The complaint is that they aren't dropping from every boss, and that the drop rate is too low. I get the complaint. I also think people such as the one I responded to are overly emotional about the changes. Using it to justify their struggles per say. There are ample ways to gear for pve content. It requires a bit of team work in some cases, or some adjustment of the mindset ( example: instead of farming for gear, farm for schematics. Pool together the void matters and the refined isotopes and craft the mods and enhancements or left side pieces even if they're 228s. While some may not be BIS for the "level" any team can craft their way into a situation where they are bridging the gap). In that poster's case, it's not the gear grind that's stopping their team from succeeding. They're using the gear grind to hide from their own shortcomings.

 

Yes the grind is long. It's not perfect, and it's in need of attention from the developers. In that poster's case though, no matter what gear they have they're going to struggle and them basing those struggles on the gear grind is incorrect on their part.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Shwarzchild

[DanNV]

In that poster's case, it's not the gear grind that's stopping their team from succeeding. They're using the gear grind to hide from their own shortcomings.

 

Yes the grind is long. It's not perfect, and it's in need of attention from the developers. In that poster's case though, no matter what gear they have they're going to struggle and them basing those struggles on the gear grind is incorrect on their part.

 

You call is what you want. You're part of a known very hardcore raiding guild. I'm not. Most of my team plays a couple hours a night 2 or 3 nights a week. That's it. That's all they have time for. We were progressing though HMs in Nov. Now e can't. We can't because BW FUBAR'd the game. I have every right to be angry with BW about that. I have every right to take my money and go elsewhere, and I am. And I have every right to decide you don't know what you are talking about as it relates to the majority of players who aren't your level of extra hardcore, and I have.

 

I'm not super elite or super hardcore and won't be. I have the right to be able to expect to enjoy the time I put into something I PAY for. I'm not and that's because the design team changed up how to do things in an attempt to force people to sub longer. So, I'm out. But in before my sub runs out I will encourage BW to make changes and tell them what I think of what they've done. They'll have no doubt about why I am no longer giving them money and I hope they'll have no doubt why lots of other people aren't either.

[Shwarzchild]

You call is what you want. You're part of a known very hardcore raiding guild. I'm not. Most of my team plays a couple hours a night 2 or 3 nights a week. That's it. That's all they have time for. We were progressing though HMs in Nov. Now e can't. We can't because BW FUBAR'd the game. I have every right to be angry with BW about that. I have every right to take my money and go elsewhere, and I am. And I have every right to decide you don't know what you are talking about as it relates to the majority of players who aren't your level of extra hardcore, and I have.

 

I'm not super elite or super hardcore and won't be. I have the right to be able to expect to enjoy the time I put into something I PAY for. I'm not and that's because the design team changed up how to do things in an attempt to force people to sub longer. So, I'm out. But in before my sub runs out I will encourage BW to make changes and tell them what I think of what they've done. They'll have no doubt about why I am no longer giving them money and I hope they'll have no doubt why lots of other people aren't either.

 

To clear up a few points in there: Taw isn't a hardcore raiding guild. We have pretty much every type of player imaginable. We don't have any NiM teams or guide writing teams anymore. Most of the raiders we have are just like you. They aren't hardcore, they log in one or two nights a week. We have three players from our former teams which were never top tier. We tried hard and made some head way into nightmare but nothing on the level of its lit or failure, last resort, etc. We don't raid 24/7, do very few pick up pugs. In reality TAW isn't what you think it is, but hey thanks for the compliment! In 4.0 we were had a beginner nightmare team, some hard mode teams, and some story mode teams. Now not so much.

 

I'm also not saying pay for what you don't like. If you move on then I wish you well. If you are playing, do what you can to make the experience worthwhile. As the corny saying goes when life gives you lemons make lemonade. There's certainly ways to make gearing bearable. It isn't perfect, and the grind is long and annoying. But, there are ways to lessen the impact.

 

What I will say though is that the advice that was given to me that I gave to you is valid for raiding in really any game. If that's what you want your thing to be you have to work hard to be the best player you can be. If you only have 2 hours, take those two hours and play hard. If you've got time on your hands and don't want to log in or can't, read a guide, watch a video of a boss your working on, think about what you were doing and what you can change.

It isn't the gearing that's causing you your struggles. Use the resources others have put out there for you guys to use. You can even PM me whenever you want or look for me in game and I will gladly help you guys out.

[omaan]

The whole problem is pvp players are now forced to do pve WHICH IS DAMN WRONG and if they won't do pve - they won't have good gear and will fail to those who do pve.... Bw made a huge disbalance between pvp and pve gridning.

[Ashaari]

 

I rank top damage done in nearly every warzone, my gear isn't that good, 230 maybe on average and no augments. And I get that some classes deal a bit more damage than others, but whats the damn excuse for doing 3 or 5 times less damage? It's laziness, and those poeple loose me warzones and extend my grind. .

 

Your team mates probably feel you should learn to play too. They are playing wz objectives while you run around focussing on dps numbers and contribute little of value to a win.

 

High numbers are easy, lots of aoe and splash damage which contribute to nothing except your ego.

[TUXs]

Seeing the numbers figured out makes it even more ridiculous. They don't need to double these rewards, they need to add ZEROS to them...holy balls that's insane. So freaking out of touch and ignorant.

[Ottoattack]

The feedback was already provided before. Tier 1 is insanely expensive. Tier 2 is also expensive. Tier 3 is about right (still a bit expensive).

 

BW does not give a s*** about feedback.

[Drew_Braxton]

The whole problem is pvp players are now forced to do pve WHICH IS DAMN WRONG and if they won't do pve - they won't have good gear and will fail to those who do pve.... Bw made a huge disbalance between pvp and pve gridning.

 

And for any chance for the majority of PVE players to upgrade gear they have to PVP which is damn wrong as you say.

 

Both PVP and PVE can get 240 crafted items. PVPers, with even more grind, can at least upgrade components. PVEers cannot unless they beat nightmare operations, which most can't or couldn't even find a group to try.

[RswanBing]

BW does not give a s*** about feedback.

 

Oh they care about feedback... but choose to ignore everything in it that would imply they've done anything wrong.

 

It's not bioware's fault, players are doing it wrong by pointing out mistakes and nonsense in this game, while everyone know this team never do anything wrong. At worse, things needs "adjustement" and nothing more.

[Mianera]

Oh they care about feedback... but choose to ignore everything in it that would imply they've done anything wrong.

 

It's not bioware's fault, players are doing it wrong by pointing out mistakes and nonsense in this game, while everyone know this team never do anything wrong. At worse, things needs "adjustement" and nothing more.

 

There's truth in this, I for one in the end am fine with adjustments as long as they are a priority and make it to the clients FAST. But they are sooo careful about not giving players too much enjoyment that these things apparently take huge debates and minor fixes while everything is monitored by statistics.

 

God forbid players should get a tiny bit too rewarded from playing the game! >_>

[AscendingSky]

Your team mates probably feel you should learn to play too. They are playing wz objectives while you run around focussing on dps numbers and contribute little of value to a win.

 

High numbers are easy, lots of aoe and splash damage which contribute to nothing except your ego.

 

Exactly this. I am so tired of people in warzones bragging about their big DPS numbers while they ignore all objectives. They won't guard points because they want to fluff their DPS numbers, so they just mindlessly deathmatch the whole time. They won't run the ball in Huttball because, again, that means taking a break from button-mashing, so that would hurt their DPS numbers. It's probably my #1 frustration about PvP. Those are the people who don't know how to play.

[omaan]

The pvp gearing progression is ridiculous at the moment. Whereas pve players faceroll sm kp/ev for getting tier 3 pieces,and pro pve guilds running nightmare mode operations,pvp players are forced to farm tonnes of unessembled components at quite slow rate. Idk what bioware are up to. But it seems that they are trying to kill pvp

[masterceil]

Whereas pve players faceroll sm kp/ev for getting tier 3 pieces...

 

PVE player here, SM KP/EV give 236s - Tier 2 (and the first tier of gear now purchasable with PVP comms). HM gives Tier 3, and neither op gives Tier 4 at all.

[Jake_Chambers]

PVE player here, SM KP/EV give 236s - Tier 2 (and the first tier of gear now purchasable with PVP comms). HM gives Tier 3, and neither op gives Tier 4 at all.

 

Hm kp and ev are absurdly easy and drop 242s making ops actually faster than pvp to get that gear fast.