Thanks for Malavai Quinn. <3 <3 <3 This is a love thread, haters make your own lol.

[Jagaimee]

I saw that, what is wrong with people. The other classes have no reason to kill him. Don't let the haters sway you. He's a victim of lazy writing again, because they've forced both returning comps to throw a flash bomb. No one gets killed, it's just a distraction, so I don't think he was trying to kill anyone, just disrupt things. He loves SW and I think he's quite sincere when he expresses his feelings for her. Remember...puppy dog face.

 

Puppy dog face? *eyes transform into wingding hearts* (Amazing how the "embarrassed" smiley can also double as a "soft gooshy lovey face." XD)

Ohhhh, it's a flash grenade? From the way other people are talking, it's an actual bomb meant to injure/kill the Outlander. *facepalm* Welp. That makes a heck of a lot more sense.

[knoXr]

So... there's that "All classes should've been able to kill Quinn" thread floating around. It got me thinking. Sad thoughts.

 

If you side with the Republic on Iokath... Quinn betrays you again. I don't know all the circumstances or what exactly happens, but that's what it seems like.

 

Are we interpreting his character completely wrong? Is he really just that spineless that he'd blindly choose the Empire/a more powerful Darth over his friend/ally/lover/his own wife? Or is it truly just bad writing that makes him appear that way?

 

I really think it's just negligent writing. Not in an I Like Quinn So I'm Ignoring Facts way, but in a This Is Inconsistent With What We Know About Him For Certain way.

 

He and Elara are similar in a lot of ways, so I can understand the decision to make things easier and have them act the same. But despite many similarities, they have a couple glaring differences where loyalty is concerned. It makes sense for Elara to "betray" a Trooper who sides with the Empire (technically it'd be more like the Trooper betrayed her/the Republic). It simply doesn't make sense for Quinn to betray a Warrior again. His loyalty is to the individual. In cases where the Commander is not a Warrior, it does make sense for him to side with Acina. In cases where the Commander is a Warrior, it's nonsensical.

[Nightfrogger]

I really think it's just negligent writing. Not in an I Like Quinn So I'm Ignoring Facts way, but in a This Is Inconsistent With What We Know About Him For Certain way.

 

He and Elara are similar in a lot of ways, so I can understand the decision to make things easier and have them act the same. But despite many similarities, they have a couple glaring differences where loyalty is concerned. It makes sense for Elara to "betray" a Trooper who sides with the Empire (technically it'd be more like the Trooper betrayed her/the Republic). It simply doesn't make sense for Quinn to betray a Warrior again. His loyalty is to the individual. In cases where the Commander is not a Warrior, it does make sense for him to side with Acina. In cases where the Commander is a Warrior, it's nonsensical.

 

He does say "Forgive me, my lord." when he does this. I know he is acting under orders he does not agree with, and is stuck in a similar situation as he was with Baras. Acina would happily force choke him to death via holo right where he stood for disobeying that order. He would be surprised at the warriors choice and need a few moments to think over his wants and desires...he wants to help the Empire but he also wants to help the warrior. In the end his loyalty to the warrior out weighs the loyalty to the Empire.

 

At least that is my take on it.

[Swingkittie]

He does say "Forgive me, my lord." when he does this. I know he is acting under orders he does not agree with, and is stuck in a similar situation as he was with Baras. Acina would happily force choke him to death via holo right where he stood for disobeying that order. He would be surprised at the warriors choice and need a few moments to think over his wants and desires...he wants to help the Empire but he also wants to help the warrior. In the end his loyalty to the warrior out weighs the loyalty to the Empire.

 

At least that is my take on it.

 

He also said after you take him back when he betrays you with Darth Baras that he will do everything to prove his loyalty and regain your trust again. So I don't really see that when he throws a bomb at you and sides with Acina over your Warrior. In that sense proves incapable of being loyal and is wishy washy. Taking the empire side on Iokath if you are a warrior is far better in my opinion because it allows your character to be more accepting and forgiving.

[grania]

I don't know that the writing is even worth analyzing, being that they treated Dorne and Quinn as if they were the same person. He says "Forgive me, my lord" (yes? I never sided w/ the republic) and Dorne says "Forgive me, sir" when my trooper sided empire. What can even be deduced about his or her character from writing like this? It's meaningless anymore.

 

I enjoyed the voice work for Iokath and uh.. that's mostly it. I'm not sure I'll allow myself to get hyped up for swtor again even if they posted right this minute confirming there was more Quinn story on the way. Maybe if they announced the original writer of the warrior story was returning.. maybe then. I dunno.

[knoXr]

He does say "Forgive me, my lord." when he does this. I know he is acting under orders he does not agree with, and is stuck in a similar situation as he was with Baras. Acina would happily force choke him to death via holo right where he stood for disobeying that order. He would be surprised at the warriors choice and need a few moments to think over his wants and desires...he wants to help the Empire but he also wants to help the warrior. In the end his loyalty to the warrior out weighs the loyalty to the Empire.

 

At least that is my take on it.

 

I absolutely agree with that reasoning, because I have to agree with some reasoning behind it because it happened. I guess I just feel like we have to come up with reasoning for something that logically probably should not have happened at all ever, and then did happen in a clunky way.

 

Previously, on Corellia, he cared more about proving his loyalty to the warrior than he cared for his own safety. He spent years in prison because he remained loyal to the Wrath. His loyalty to Baras was greater than his loyalty to the Emperor; following past example, his loyalty to the warrior should be greater than his loyalty to Acina.

 

In the end, it played out that way, but it seems like vanilla!Quinn would not have hesitated making a choice at all. I can see how maybe Acina's intentions for the Empire might win over his loyalty to the Republic!Wrath similarly to Baras's intentions winning over loyalty to the Emperor back in the day, but it feels more like this is the reason:

 

I don't know that the writing is even worth analyzing, being that they treated Dorne and Quinn as if they were the same person. He says "Forgive me, my lord" (yes? I never sided w/ the republic) and Dorne says "Forgive me, sir" when my trooper sided empire. What can even be deduced about his or her character from writing like this? It's meaningless anymore.

[Edyn]

If the original writers intended Quinn and Dorne to talk and act the exact same way, they would have only written one character. You can't take two different people, with different personalities, backgrounds, nuances, etc. and mash them into one person because what you get is a bunch of garbage that makes no logical sense. My biggest question is, "How did they not see this or did they see it was nonsensical and ran with it anyway?"

 

Once I realized this is the first taste of all returning Companions, I realized I have nothing else to look forward to except nonsensical disappointment. I mean, what's next? Ashara and Kira come back and have the exact same dialogue and actions during three whole minutes of screen time while Lana and Theron save the galaxy? How about Andronikos and Corso? I mean, they make just as much sense as Quinn and Dorne.

 

Personally, I just chalked it up to lazy writing, which is rank and file with the rest of the disconnected laziness the developers have recently projected upon this game and is essentially what I told BW when I unsubscribed a couple of days ago. I can't stomach giving these guys any more money and supporting their product when everything they're doing appears half-assed and sloppy, and totally disconnected from the original spirit of the game. Not just the reunion, but everything from GC, to the spamming and irrelevant DvL war, to fixing "broken" things that didn't need to be fixed, like AoE telegraphs and group minimap icons, to the Ravage ability change, not to mention the creation of new bugs while old bugs that have been around forever remain unaddressed. In 18 years of playing MMOs, this is the first time where I've actually felt like the developers just don't care about their own game to the point where I actually wonder if they work in a toxic work environment.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Edyn

[grania]

I think I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are resource starved. One question though, what did this picture even mean? It never happened.

 

http://www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/eternalthrone/updates/Companions.jpg

 

Regardless, I want to support the game but I don't feel I'll get much in return for it. A break will help my mood.

[Edyn]

I think I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are resource starved. One question though, what did this picture even mean? It never happened.

 

http://www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/eternalthrone/updates/Companions.jpg

 

Regardless, I want to support the game but I don't feel I'll get much in return for it. A break will help my mood.

 

When I first saw it, it gave me the impression that we'd be able to fight along him (and Dorne) during this content patch like did did the rest of the Main Characters who'd returned. After playing the update, I realized it was nothing but bait.

[Ralei]

I don't know that the writing is even worth analyzing, being that they treated Dorne and Quinn as if they were the same person. He says "Forgive me, my lord" (yes? I never sided w/ the republic) and Dorne says "Forgive me, sir" when my trooper sided empire. What can even be deduced about his or her character from writing like this? It's meaningless anymore.

 

I enjoyed the voice work for Iokath and uh.. that's mostly it. I'm not sure I'll allow myself to get hyped up for swtor again even if they posted right this minute confirming there was more Quinn story on the way. Maybe if they announced the original writer of the warrior story was returning.. maybe then. I dunno.

 

Same took the wind right out of my sails. I really don't even care that I'm bugged and didn't get him back. I don't even know who that Quinn or Warrior were in those opening scenes.

 

I'm pinning all my hopes on Theron's story, since he's a main character, they'll treat him better. As in, write the story for his character, not for ****** game management reasons. It's already a bit scary how quickly Jace was eager to kill Theron if you chose Empire. I mean, Jace is a personality you've created and based your entire game around for 5+ years now, and you're going to have him try to murder his own son before he dies. That seems crazy to me. Reckless. Lazy. That's his story now, forever. yikes.

 

But I digress.

 

Here it comes, I'm hungover and grouchy...I cant stop it...

 

[rant]

Combining two distinct personalities into one generic character is NOT my definition of "meaningful". There might be companions you could do this to, with less interesting or detailed back stories, but not someone like Quinn, whose basic continued existence is so controversial.

 

There was so much low hanging fruit for a writer with Quinn's story. I mean, all of its angst just practically writes itself. How many thousands of fan stories are so much better than this one, the official story? It is embarrassing. It didn't have to read like a ***** high school drama fiction, it just had to make sense.

 

Everything about his return was just shuffled around to fit into their arbitrary decision to have him and Dorne be the same person. Their introduction scenes were just idiotic. Their prompt disappearances or their betrayals were frustrating beyond belief, and then that last scene ... **** it - i didn't even care at that point.

 

And seriously, did the writer not even CONSIDER the implications of Quinn betraying the warrior AGAIN in such a ******, interchangeable way? I mean, why would Quinn, who spent YEARS of his life in jail for the Warrior, decide to help Acina instead of the Warrior? Was it because he thought the warrior left him in jail to rot and Acina got him out? That's some juicy turn of events, write that! Lets have the guts to do something like that...But no, not even addressed.

 

Then why, after he betrayed the warrior AGAIN, did he say he still loved her and beg her forgiveness? They just made him into a slimy, slippery, spineless bootlick at worst and a confused idiot at best, so that they could keep his and Dorn's arc the same, keep you as the "Outlander" and not the "Wrath", and ruined his entire existence for me. I would have been more satisfied if he'd fallen on his sword instead of fight against the warrior again, it would have been more appropriate ending and given more meaning to his whole sad story. " Quinn's dead for everyone, Bioware doesn't have to worry about ever writing anything about him again. They win." -_-

 

That's only one of SEVERAL scenarios that I don't understand.

 

They should have written his return FOREMOST with the Warrior's history in mind and made his actions consistent with how the warrior dealt with him after his first betrayal. Then, adapted the other classes and the Iokath story into it. Otherwise, why even *********** bother?

 

I don't understand why the writers consistently design themselves into weird corners with these companions. They could have just left them mute and as implied actors in the Kotfe/et saga like they were with SoR. What was the need to add 48 more companions with no personalities instead of the original, beloved ones given appropriate roles in the Alliance? Why bring back all the weird aliens and non-love interests first and then decide no one cared about companions anymore? Who decides which two companions become interchangeable/killable? How can you write around something so arbitrary as that? just stop. STAHP!

 

[/rant]

[RarePorcupine]

I think I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are resource starved. One question though, what did this picture even mean? It never happened.

 

http://www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/eternalthrone/updates/Companions.jpg

 

Regardless, I want to support the game but I don't feel I'll get much in return for it. A break will help my mood.

 

Like the picture of Elara with a JK (I think it was), just a way to sell people on the patch, especially since there was no reason for people to think you wouldn't get to use the companion whose faction you choose during gameplay. They'd always let you do it before (and given more than a single conversation with the companion), so I'm sure many people were convinced the same would be true on Iokath. Oops!

 

There were a few good character beats for them (the reunions, Elara refusing to rejoin a trooper depending on certain choices), but to me I feel like they were solely included to build excitement for a story/content update that really doesn't have a lot of interesting stuff to offer (apart from the sole ops boss for now). They probably knew "Jace MAlcom and Empress Acina act like idiots over a superweapon you've never heard of before" wasn't going to get people subbed.

Edited April 29, 2017 by RarePorcupine

[Lunafox]

I think I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they are resource starved. One question though, what did this picture even mean? It never happened.

 

http://www.swtor.com/sites/all/files/en/eternalthrone/updates/Companions.jpg

 

Regardless, I want to support the game but I don't feel I'll get much in return for it. A break will help my mood.

 

Maybe it will happen in the future? A clue that there is more to come? I know, I know, I'm starting to sound desperate.

[grania]

Here it comes, I'm hungover and grouchy...I cant stop it...

 

Let it all out, I ******* love rants.

 

And seriously, did the writer not even CONSIDER the implications of Quinn betraying the warrior AGAIN in such a ******, interchangeable way? I mean, why would Quinn, who spent YEARS of his life in jail for the Warrior, decide to help Acina instead of the Warrior?

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm only glad I didn't have to endure it. Picking the republic is weird.

 

Oops!

 

Lol yeah, so was assuming I'd get to break up with Theron. Oops!

 

Maybe it will happen in the future? A clue that there is more to come? I know, I know, I'm starting to sound desperate.

 

We all understand

[knoXr]

So, I just saw something that I didn't know existed and makes me feel a little better... Like, the absolute teeniest, tiniest bit. I've complained about this specific scene before and I have yet to see anyone correct my pissed off rambling about it so maybe this is new for everyone (or I totally missed it, idk, completely possible) :p

 

Iokath clip spoiler warning for anyone still avoiding Iokath content~

Romanced Warrior + Sided with the Republic

Link + I will write out the dialogue in case anyone is unable to watch the video.

 

 

At 21:00 --

This happens:

Acina: Blah blah I'm gonna lay waste to your Alliance, you damn hoes.

Warrior: [--> Stop her, Quinn.] Quinn! You serve the Empire first, not Acina. Strike her down, before she destroys us all.

Quinn: My lord...

Acina: He will do nothing of the sort.

Quinn: You're wrong, Empress. This is too dangerous. If what they say is true...

Acina: Enough. *temper tantrums on Quinn*

Quinn: *gets thrown like a ragdoll!*

 

The rest of the scene seems to completely ignore that it happened, but oh well.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware of the Quinn goodies there as I have yet to take a Warrior the Pubside Route. It makes him look slightly less jerkish for those who go down that story path. Now I wonder if Elara also has a tidbit there.

[RarePorcupine]

I wasn't aware of the Quinn goodies there as I have yet to take a Warrior the Pubside Route. It makes him look slightly less jerkish for those who go down that story path. Now I wonder if Elara also has a tidbit there.

 

No, there's only one version if you side with the Empire (the Jace/Theron Drama Hour). I think they included that line with Quinn to try to set up the reasoning behind him swapping sides again, but didn't really work for me since it felt out of the blue and had no real set up to it (part of the problem of not having meaningful conversations/content for the returning companions until after the story is over) and it muddles what his motivations are really. Especially since the line refers to his loyalty to the Empire, not to the Wrath.

 

Personally, I'm fine with Quinn choosing the Empire over the Wrath (and not offering to join a Republic-siding SW) if it came down to it. The way it's written on Iokath is like the writers had no clear goal/intentions in mind with how he should be handled, and having him side with Acina/the Empire (which I think is fine, since a Warrior siding with the Republic is turning their back on both and Quinn) and then suddenly change his motivations feels too whiplashy. I guess they needed an excuse for him to show up so Republic-siding Warriors could kill him or something (although I guess it also lets Quinn fans who want to side with the Republic still get him so I dunno).

Edited April 29, 2017 by RarePorcupine

[Lunafox]

So, I just saw something that I didn't know existed and makes me feel a little better... Like, the absolute teeniest, tiniest bit. I've complained about this specific scene before and I have yet to see anyone correct my pissed off rambling about it so maybe this is new for everyone (or I totally missed it, idk, completely possible) :p

 

Iokath clip spoiler warning for anyone still avoiding Iokath content~

Romanced Warrior + Sided with the Republic

Link + I will write out the dialogue in case anyone is unable to watch the video.

 

 

At 21:00 --

This happens:

Acina: Blah blah I'm gonna lay waste to your Alliance, you damn hoes.

Warrior: [--> Stop her, Quinn.] Quinn! You serve the Empire first, not Acina. Strike her down, before she destroys us all.

Quinn: My lord...

Acina: He will do nothing of the sort.

Quinn: You're wrong, Empress. This is too dangerous. If what they say is true...

Acina: Enough. *temper tantrums on Quinn*

Quinn: *gets thrown like a ragdoll!*

 

The rest of the scene seems to completely ignore that it happened, but oh well.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware of the Quinn goodies there as I have yet to take a Warrior the Pubside Route. It makes him look slightly less jerkish for those who go down that story path. Now I wonder if Elara also has a tidbit there.

 

Oooh that is cool. I like it. I also like your dialogue line for Acina. Tee hee.

[grania]

No one's allowed to throw Quinn around 'cept me

[Ralei]

So, I just saw something that I didn't know existed and makes me feel a little better... Like, the absolute teeniest, tiniest bit. I've complained about this specific scene before and I have yet to see anyone correct my pissed off rambling about it so maybe this is new for everyone (or I totally missed it, idk, completely possible) :p

 

Iokath clip spoiler warning for anyone still avoiding Iokath content~

Romanced Warrior + Sided with the Republic

Link + I will write out the dialogue in case anyone is unable to watch the video.

 

 

At 21:00 --

This happens:

Acina: Blah blah I'm gonna lay waste to your Alliance, you damn hoes.

Warrior: [--> Stop her, Quinn.] Quinn! You serve the Empire first, not Acina. Strike her down, before she destroys us all.

Quinn: My lord...

Acina: He will do nothing of the sort.

Quinn: You're wrong, Empress. This is too dangerous. If what they say is true...

Acina: Enough. *temper tantrums on Quinn*

Quinn: *gets thrown like a ragdoll!*

 

The rest of the scene seems to completely ignore that it happened, but oh well.

 

 

 

I wasn't aware of the Quinn goodies there as I have yet to take a Warrior the Pubside Route. It makes him look slightly less jerkish for those who go down that story path. Now I wonder if Elara also has a tidbit there.

 

lol but then he promptly runs away at 22:10. Like, where was he running? To go hide?

[knoXr]

No, there's only one version if you side with the Empire (the Jace/Theron Drama Hour). I think they included that line with Quinn to try to set up the reasoning behind him swapping sides again, but didn't really work for me since it felt out of the blue and had no real set up to it (part of the problem of not having meaningful conversations/content for the returning companions until after the story is over) and it muddles what his motivations are really. Especially since the line refers to his loyalty to the Empire, not to the Wrath.

 

Yeah, I think since it seems to be a Wrath-exclusive line it would have been better to reference, well, the Wrath. But maybe they were really focusing on the Empire vs Republic thing because... individual character personality and history, what's that? Pointing out Wrath!Loyalty would have certainly made a stronger point, though.

 

Oooh that is cool. I like it. I also like your dialogue line for Acina. Tee hee.

 

I'm pretty sure it's what BW meant to write.

 

No one's allowed to throw Quinn around 'cept me

 

No kidding! Why did she not get a saber through the eyeball right there?

 

lol but then he promptly runs away at 22:10. Like, where was he running? To go hide?

My theories: to go collect his thoughts, work on his apology speech, practice his puppy dog eyes, get a massage for the massive back ache he probably had...

[Edyn]

Same took the wind right out of my sails...

After observing Quinn's illogical actions and realizing this happened because they decided Dorne and Quinn should be saying and doing the exact same things is when I realized the wind was out of my sails. In novels, games, TV series and movies, I get vested in specific characters because they really bring a story to life by adding the flawed element of humanity that everyone can relate to in some way or another. The moment story characters lose their individuality, they cease being a character and become a simple tool, existing only to further the plot.

 

Unfortunately, this is what I feel happened - the vanilla writers created the characters, Malavai Quinn and Elara Dorne, and the current writers fashioned them into a tool named Elara Quinn to which I can't relate. Astoundingly enough, for both me and my husband, BW has actually managed to completely kill my interest in Malavai Quinn as character and now I view him and Elara Dorne on the same level as any Cartel Market Companion.

[grania]

Astoundingly enough, for both me and my husband, BW has actually managed to completely kill my interest in Malavai Quinn as character and now I view him and Elara Dorne on the same level as any Cartel Market Companion.

 

I don't blame you. And I have no intention of being strung along forever. But for me, I'll never really give up hope for more Quinn/warrior story - just something about it nags at me.

[Lammia]

Spotted in someone else's favourites.

 

 

Ouchy! http://fav.me/d5vtfkb

[grania]

Spotted in someone else's favourites.

 

 

Ouchy! http://fav.me/d5vtfkb

 

It's like what Quinn looked like in pre-school, dawww. I mean except for the stubble.

 

Lammia have you ever tried drawing kids before?

[Jagaimee]

Spotted in someone else's favourites.

 

 

Ouchy! http://fav.me/d5vtfkb

 

From that same artist, what a few people here wish they could do to Elara:

[Lammia]

Lammia have you ever tried drawing kids before?

 

I did some cartoonish chibi-like vector drawing (as in drawing method, not the cute Bugboy ), but never tried any SWTOR characters, although did some of my Star Trek fanfic characters.