Gebrakstkasten Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 1st off, I really enjoy this game. I have read a lot of complaints about the lack of PvP content, but playing on a team against another team makes the game plenty dynamic in my view. Having the previous ability in 4.0 to instantly max gear my 65 level alt and go straight into a match was the critical aspect that ultimately kept me subscribing. Changing toons and your roles really gives you a better perspective of the game. For example: I started playing tanks like a lot of other people, but didn’t really understand what “tanking” was until I played a healer. This was easy to do because the barrier to entry in 4.0 was very low for end game PvP. In 4.0, my brand-new level 65s all had 208 PvP gear with max augments (with crafting) as soon as they leveled. I would play them for a while and with the PvP credits, could instantly outfit another toon. I never felt like I was grinding at all because the new alts kept it fresh. Having a fair fight is critical. Because it was easy to max gear in 4.0, the ability to contribute to a team was based on fine tuning of gear-stats, in-game communications, cool down management, rotations, positioning, focus, etc…. or … skill and experience. If someone beat me in 4.0, for the most part, I to believed it was because they out-played me “fair and square” as opposed to out gearing me. I fear that the current system places too much emphasis on player’s time to grind rather than skill making the balance of the matches very lopsided. 4.0 was great as far as overall balance in the game. A full set of augmented 208 PvP armor was barely good enough to participate in other endgame PvE, but much better than 190. There was a good sweet spot where you could be competitive in PvP, but still had to do HM FPs and Ops to get the best PVE gear. As with PvP, repeating the same PvE content with a different toon in a different role has kept it interesting. I’m honestly a PvP snob and didn’t do much PvE, but when I did the max PvP gear was a good starter kit. I’m a working professional, happily married, with kids. Keeping me interested in the game is not about money, but my time. Alts in PvP have kept me interested in SWTOR and alts have kept me coming back. As I said in the beginning, I really enjoy this game, but if I have to spend 30 hrs a week playing to be competitive and contribute … well … I don’t like the game that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wababab Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Keeping me interested in the game is not about money, but my time. Alts in PvP have kept me interested in SWTOR and alts have kept me coming back. As I said in the beginning, I really enjoy this game, but if I have to spend 30 hrs a week playing to be competitive and contribute … well … I don’t like the game that much. Agreed, spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwurdilu Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Just so you know, if you alt a lot you can have a full set of 240 superfast. just be sure to finish daily/weekly and give the mats to a crafter of your choice. You need to be intelligent enough to use legacy armour and weapons of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlissDivine Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I agree, playing alts in pvp is what makes the game fun to me also. It's what keeps me playing the game. The 5.0 gear grind is just killing alts and has me burned out by overly playing sorc (which was clearly the wrong choice to play in 5.0 for dps). . . and I still don't have the gear I want on it after 2 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x_Boots_x Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I agree with this post 100%, I have currently 22 level 70 toons and I pvp with all of them, this IS my choice, but puts me at a huge disadvantage against single character players, eveen though I have more time and effort into the game, I understand that there should be a trade off for altiholics like myself, but the Devs have basically ruined the one part of the game that keeps people subbing, (the ability to "complete" a character and start a new one) None of this make any sense from a customer service nor money making point of view, bad Dev decisions all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkron-kerupt Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) Just so you know, if you alt a lot you can have a full set of 240 superfast. just be sure to finish daily/weekly and give the mats to a crafter of your choice. You need to be intelligent enough to use legacy armour and weapons of course. Excuse me but please wake up the crafted relics 230 dont have crit on them like the vendor or command crate drops. and the big one here the crafted armoring dont have the set bonuses on them. So yeah farm your mats waste alot of cred's buying this crap go ahead. and you still be no better then you are currently. I think you should be more intelligent before posting more bs. Edited January 27, 2017 by falkron-kerupt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wababab Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Just so you know, if you alt a lot you can have a full set of 240 superfast. just be sure to finish daily/weekly and give the mats to a crafter of your choice. You need to be intelligent enough to use legacy armour and weapons of course. You are in so many threads defending this korean galactic command grind . Are you payed for it or something? Players are stating what they do not like and that they will not be a part of it , simple as that. You can enjoy this new system, nobody is telling you otherwise. On my part - I will be out after sub is done, maybe come back to check in a year or two. You can have fun with your grind mate and you enjoy it as much as your heart desires:) Swtor pvp was one of the best in the industry. Great maps, great encounters and lot of good matches. Was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrixxieTriss Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) 5.1 was supposed to bring big changes to playing alts after they admitted they didn't mean to make the game unfriendly to alts. In reality nothing really happened except more grind. Edited January 27, 2017 by TrixxieTriss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severith Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 It bears mentioning that better pvpers usually pvp on a variety of toons. (before 5.0) It makes you understand them better. Which makes you fight against them more effectively, and provided a more rational perspective when posting about things like class balance. That's what 5.0 and 5.1 killed. Healthier perspectives and understanding when thinking or talking about how classes fare against each other. You ask for a certain class to get toned down, and people get triggered and scream bloody murder. Can't even blame them too much even, because if I spent months and months getting command level 300 only for my class to get over nerfed, it would be an instant unsub and uninstall. It encourages people get ultra defensive to the point of stupidity. And then, the whole system will have to get revamped anyway if they ever come out with another expansion. Command ranks need to be set to legacy wide. Set bonuses need to switch depending on which class/spec is wearing them. Lowbie and Midbie characters need to be able to contribute to a legacy wide command rank. Otherwise playing Alts just makes your main that much worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 Excuse me but please wake up the crafted relics 230 dont have crit on them like the vendor or command crate drops. and the big one here the crafted armoring dont have the set bonuses on them. So yeah farm your mats waste alot of cred's buying this crap go ahead. and you still be no better then you are currently. I think you should be more intelligent before posting more bs. You know, except he is correct. I have mostly 240's and all I have left is upgrading my armorings while i work towards t3 gear to get to 242. Maybe don't berate others intelligence when you're clearly wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwurdilu Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) You are in so many threads defending this korean galactic command grind . Are you payed for it or something? Players are stating what they do not like and that they will not be a part of it , simple as that. You can enjoy this new system, nobody is telling you otherwise. On my part - I will be out after sub is done, maybe come back to check in a year or two. You can have fun with your grind mate and you enjoy it as much as your heart desires:) Swtor pvp was one of the best in the industry. Great maps, great encounters and lot of good matches. Was. i just tend to see the greater picture. Everyone complaining seems to forget that 4.0 was not the holy pvp land where everything was fine. As a matter of fact there was no real incentive to win and except for a few noone bother to play objective, it was all about dps races etc. There were threads with many people complaining about the need of an incentive for players to win. Also many players, me included, complained that you couldnt use your pvp gear for pve and vica versa. I never did pve prior 5.0 because gear was too much of a barrier for me. So bioware listened. And know we have a system that works quite well. But psychology strikes and people get frustrated because theyre not BiS. However that concern is so irrelavent. With crafting you can have a completely competetive gear after a few played hours. But this emotional guided community completelly ignores that fact that you got the mats needed for 240 thrown and only focusses on how long you need via command crates. I mean be realistic, who, sane in mind, would not use a crafted hilt/barrel/armoring in main offhand?! This whole moan about gear isnt about actual performance (because theres no remarkable difference) its all about that psychological barrier that makes people think they cant get competetive, but theres no math to back those claims. Edited January 27, 2017 by Qwurdilu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueEquality Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I'm a casual who likes to play alts and this patch has definitely made me question if i'm gonna re sub Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 27, 2017 Share Posted January 27, 2017 I'm a casual who likes to play alts and this patch has definitely made me question if i'm gonna re sub just make sure to pull the pieces out of any gear you get from your crates and only trade in the shells. you can use these pieces to gear up alts. Also, I'll be crafting for just the mats of the item if you're on JC, though I can't do 240's yet (pvp is slow for GC exp) I can do 234's shortly which are above bolster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gebrakstkasten Posted January 28, 2017 Author Share Posted January 28, 2017 Thanks everyone for your interest and discussion. Its an interesting take on qualitative vs. quantitative advantages (or the "emotion" comments). Couple things to add: 1 - Hitting the gear ceiling (with set bonus) forced us to focus on the variable nuances. I really enjoyed seeing the creative ways people arranged their stats. Despite the math, I think the stat adjustment falls under the qualitative realm as it ultimately supports style. I don't think you can accurately and dispassionately apply quantitative analysis to a video game because it all depends on the variable, "how fun am I really having?" 2 - What I have started "observing" are some lopsided healing and damage scores. I'm seeing people hit the 4 and 5 million marks with damage or healing while others are not even getting a 1 million on the same side in the same match. On a side note: What I'm seeing is that almost no one really likes the 5.0 changes, its really how much we are willing to tolerate the new change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 On a side note: What I'm seeing is that almost no one really likes the 5.0 changes, its really how much we are willing to tolerate the new change. If only this company was so observant (and cared.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josewales Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Tokens should be used for buying 230s legacy wide. I am already sitting on 3000 and a lot more in command stash. TG it stacks in stash heh. Edited January 28, 2017 by Josewales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I don't have any alts, so I don't care about this issue at all. Just a reminder not everyone is playing like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 I don't have any alts, so I don't care about this issue at all. Just a reminder not everyone is playing like you. Yes, it makes sense to not care about it since it doesn't matter to you. Empathy is bad. (Sarcasm for those of you that fail to realize when sarcasm is used.) You know, I have never done one raid, ever on this game. I still wish the devs created more raids for those who enjoy them. You know why? Because that draws more PVE players who just might also enjoy PVP like I do. It's good for a game to have options and choices in gameplay. Removing flexibility in gearing, especially making it so people cannot gear alts affects maybe not you, but it does affect many others and this in turn could turn them away from this game. If you enjoy the game, guess what? People being unhappy and leaving the game is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_York Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 Yes, it makes sense to not care about it since it doesn't matter to you. Empathy is bad. (Sarcasm for those of you that fail to realize when sarcasm is used.) You know, I have never done one raid, ever on this game. I still wish the devs created more raids for those who enjoy them. You know why? Because that draws more PVE players who just might also enjoy PVP like I do. It's good for a game to have options and choices in gameplay. Removing flexibility in gearing, especially making it so people cannot gear alts affects maybe not you, but it does affect many others and this in turn could turn them away from this game. If you enjoy the game, guess what? People being unhappy and leaving the game is a bad thing. If I start caring about stuff I don't care about, stuff I care about won't get done. I wish this game would have no story, no pve at all, and was focused on PVP only, but sadly it's not possible, I see absolutely no reason for "empathy" in this case, because you whine about non-issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) In all honesty the way things were at 4.0, you could arm your alts for PvP too fast. 5.0 and 5.1 gives me old WoW vibes from many years back, in a good way. I understand how people can be upset when after a situation in which getting to max level you are not instantly geared for PvP, and i had that feeling too, but chose not to pay attention to it. Edited January 28, 2017 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If I start caring about stuff I don't care about, stuff I care about won't get done. I wish this game would have no story, no pve at all, and was focused on PVP only, but sadly it's not possible, I see absolutely no reason for "empathy" in this case, because you whine about non-issues. When I read or hear people talk like you, I just remind myself that it's good that the world is filled full of different types of personalities otherwise it would be a very dull place. I can even admit that there is a time and place when selfishness can be beneficial but in this situation I fail to really see how. You'd not lose anything if others had the chance to gear easier, and you'd also not lose anything if bolster was stronger but because you don't care it doesn't matter, in your mind anyway. Living in a self-absorbed bubble must feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueEquality Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) i'm rethinking it a lil, if u like to play alts and mainly pvp then u should have one or 2 mains at 70 in not too bad of gear then slowly level alts in lowbie pvp, lowbie pvp takes awhile to get to 70 and if u have lots of alts it should take a lot of time and if you don't know how to make credits or cant buy cartel market shiot to sell I suggest u search credit making guides in a search engine and keep researching to your hearts content, making creds isn't too hard especially if by the time u start getting the non main alts to 70 the prices will start to drop as your credits accumulate. Is just another side of the argument, I'm not sure what ima do next though, is whateva for me in my life/cirumumstances atm , well I say that now but I'm sure ill prob sing atleast a lil of a different tune on my days off, p.s. u can argue that lowbie pvp is a nubfest but u can still get an ok focus exercise if u adapt to it, every game is different, oh and I forgot to mention I know the top tier armorings with the set bonus r also a cause of imbalance but I don't have the energy/know how to touch that atm Edited January 29, 2017 by TrueEquality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthRaika Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 It is funny watching all the people try to excuse the new system. It is obvious they are really enjoying their gear advantage. They are trying as hard as they can to convince themselves that they have become better players and that the gear gap doesn't have anything to do with it. The best yolo players I play with were good players before 5.1 but fully admit 240/242 gear is a huge advantage. If you can't see this you need to see what is going wrong in your real life that makes you desperate to believe this gear gap doesn't exist. Get yourself to a good place and then look at this with an open mind. You'll see that new players are at a huge disadvantage (also remember many new players don't even have 208!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueEquality Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Hopefully somewhat skilled 208's don't run big try hard pre mades in lowbies, lowbie noobies should b aspiring to hit 70 and get geared so they don't count, peeps without expansions who can't hit level cap should research best in slot bolster gear for their level, ok i better stop before i start speaking on things i know nothing about Edited January 30, 2017 by TrueEquality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5.1 was supposed to bring big changes to playing alts after they admitted they didn't mean to make the game unfriendly to alts. In reality nothing really happened except more grind. perfectly (unfortunatly) TRUE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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