wainot-keel Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 Oh got to love how those main a merc squeel and try to defend it... Sorry but Merc is in god mode now, we don't object to the buff so much, as to the amount of them even in Regs now, when 6 are shooting at you and netting you, as a melee you are helpless. Its like the guys who cried that Sorc heal was ok! If 6 dps are attacking you, you will be helpless regardless of their class And 6 mercs on one team ? yeah, right......In any case, I see more packs of snipers that pack of mercs, easily... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 It's a problem in the game if a player on a specific class cannot deal with the focus of 2-3 competent dps? Come on. That being said, I have actually seen stealths hold nodes in warzones solo indefinitely with 3-5 people chasing them around unable to kill them. This makes it debateable if stealths might not have TOO many tools to stay alive tbh. If those 3 - 5 people fail to realize they don't need to kill that stealth to cap the node, they don't deserve to cap the node. Just dump players. The same kind of players that keep hammering the merc when s/he pops the reflective shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 16, 2017 Share Posted January 16, 2017 You do realize that it's the fact that an arsenal merc who's left to free cast can do massive single target damage, right? And it's the new cooldowns that force people to target them last. Some people have trouble putting two and two together. Their defensive buffs have also affected how they perform offensively. They really don't. KO can be burst through, and reflect gives no healing if you AoE or DoT or stun or mezz. the only real "timer" they have is the power shield where they will get healed if you fail to tunnel them efficiently with it up or if you go at it alone with poor damage. they probably could do with putting KO utility on PT's and reworking the base KO for mercs as it is currently useless garbage, but as it stands, the damage is fine, the CD's are mostly fine, just remove the slow on blazing bolts and/or tracer missile. nobody needs a high impact slow attached to 95% of their rotation No mate, it is the damage AND the defensive cooldowns (together) that make them OP - you can't have instant 30k cirts followed by another instant on 30 m range, e-net (you can't escape) and 3 h2f's - and more. Don't let me wrong - we managed to win solo ranked games against 3 mercs (with no mercs or only one merc in our team), damn we even won against 4 mercs few times. However, that only happens when mercs aren't great and don't off heal or use their instant cc's and when our team rotate stuns and target well. Above info doesn't prove anything. OP is right, when you have 3 nets flying around, high 30m burst and insane DCD - and when mercs have half a brain then, if you are targeted, all you can do is kite and hope that your team mates will burn mercs down. this goes with the "stacking anything is OP" category. have you ever seen that old 8 leth op huttball video? hell, even before 5.0 I've gone around in a 4 leth op group for fun and it wrecked people. It's not the class, it's the amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razortron Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Mercs with Sorc healers. gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 And now you know how mercs felt before 5.0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) And now you know how mercs felt before 5.0. I was a merc for the whole 4.0 and it's one of if not the greatest pvp experience i have had in this game. Edited January 17, 2017 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) I was a merc for the whole 4.0 and it's one of if not the greatest pvp experience i have had in this game. I would agree. And those of us that had to suffer through always being the first target got used to playing the class that way. Then we get some serious defensive buffs in 5.0 and don't seem to get picked on first anymore. When they do, most times someone on their team is dead before you can take them down. Although if you get focused as soon as you come out of stealth I would take that as a sign of respect. Edited January 17, 2017 by HelinCarnate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreez Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 FACT: Mercs are more tanky then Juggernauts. FACT: Broken as hell. Considering that Mercs can do the same damage from ANY RANGE and doesn't need to worry about any CC except stuns to stop their damage, compared to Juggernauts which are melee dps tanks that are highly vulnerable to any sort of CC that totally negates their dps. A class with the safety of range should not be able to tank AND CC at the same time. I'd love to see a developer Vs Developer fight where one is a Merc and the other a jugg, then tell me the classes are working as intended.. namely the Merc out-tanking and out-damaging the jugg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelinCarnate Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) FACT: Mercs are more tanky then Juggernauts. FACT: Broken as hell. Considering that Mercs can do the same damage from ANY RANGE and doesn't need to worry about any CC except stuns to stop their damage, compared to Juggernauts which are melee dps tanks that are highly vulnerable to any sort of CC that totally negates their dps. A class with the safety of range should not be able to tank AND CC at the same time. I'd love to see a developer Vs Developer fight where one is a Merc and the other a jugg, then tell me the classes are working as intended.. namely the Merc out-tanking and out-damaging the jugg. They are not as tanky as actual tanks. A team that knows what they are doing can totally shut them down. The problem is many teams do not know what they are doing (at least not as a team) and someone will open with a stun (before they pop their shield) followed by another stun in an attempt to burn them down. This fails vs any merc/commando that is used to playing the class and had to endure 4.0. Edited January 17, 2017 by HelinCarnate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 FACT: Mercs are more tanky then Juggernauts. FACT: Broken as hell. Considering that Mercs can do the same damage from ANY RANGE and doesn't need to worry about any CC except stuns to stop their damage, compared to Juggernauts which are melee dps tanks that are highly vulnerable to any sort of CC that totally negates their dps. A class with the safety of range should not be able to tank AND CC at the same time. I'd love to see a developer Vs Developer fight where one is a Merc and the other a jugg, then tell me the classes are working as intended.. namely the Merc out-tanking and out-damaging the jugg. CC affects both classes equally. put a mezz on either one, their dps stops. jugg also has 3 or more root/slow breaks and two throws force scream, and leap to keep dps up at mid range while using those breaks. that's not to say I think juggs are not getting shredded, but that is nothing new, jug defensives have been bad since before 4.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razortron Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Ridiculous is the only way i can say it really! Merc is the best tank in the game now with crazy ranged instant burst damage while jumping up and down getting pocket healed by a Sorc. gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belpheghor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 http://i.imgur.com/V9muZT3.jpg Impressive damage on my part no . Well, when you spend all your time running (or crawling) your dps kinda takes a hit. And yes, it would have been better to just remain in the fight and then die on my feet and at least do some damage, but when your target runs away and mercs are chasing you... well... Electro Net was never this game breaking previous, because mercs were focused first and there was seldom more than 1. As such you would rarely suffer more than 1 Electro Net, and while annyoing, it was not necessarily a death sentence. With mercs now being ignored / stunned until the end, they are free to cast / stun / shot to an insane degree. Their crazy new defenses are indirectly making their offensive arsenal even more potent, and when grouped in 2 then thing becomes very silly. You obviously didn't read the patch notes for 5.0 class changes very well at ALL.............. It clearly states that all dps classes must now roll Merc...........duh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belpheghor Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 You deserve a L2P medal. Your post disgusts me, you hate on Mercs because you can't focus them down first anymore. The fact that there use to be no mercs and everyone just focused them down first is why they got buffed in the first place. Your constant complaining on these forums is a severe L2P disorder. You stated exactly why they needed to be buffed and essentially confessed your bad because you cant easy win anymore. do shut up. You also basically said they don't get focused first anymore. So that seems to be a problem with the player base rather than the class. Go back to focusing them first. Dont hit the orange bubble and use stuns. Simple. ^ Obvious Merc player post Keep defending your OP class boy..............and pray the nerf bat doesn't swing at you any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Melee in general is in a bad place right now. It is not necessarily because there is anything wrong with the classes (tho DPS Juggs are broken) it is due to the number of ranged currently in both ranked and regs. I'm not only including mercs as snipers are very strong also. Assuming relative skill the team that wins seems to come down to who has more ranged. Edited January 17, 2017 by Kawiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Melee in general is in a bad place right now. It is not necessarily because there is anything wrong with the classes (tho DPS Juggs are broken) it is due to the number of ranged currently in both ranked and regs. I'm not only including mercs as snipers are very strong also. Assuming relative skill the team that wins seems to come down to who has more ranged. What regs are you playing where juggs or melee in general are in a bad place now? Marauders and sents do so much damage now it's utterly insane, and jugg dps do almost the same. Let me guess, all the jugg damage is fluff damage, right? The only class that can say they are in a bad place in regs right now is the PT/VG, their damage is hard to maximize. I still have even seen some VGs muster out potent damage so great players can still make them work. What I see is good players can make almost any class decent, bad players fail miserably on weak classes and do at best average on stronger classes. Most of the whine posts about classes being OP'd in regs are by less than average skilled players imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) What regs are you playing where juggs or melee in general are in a bad place now? Marauders and sents do so much damage now it's utterly insane, and jugg dps do almost the same. Let me guess, all the jugg damage is fluff damage, right? The only class that can say they are in a bad place in regs right now is the PT/VG, their damage is hard to maximize. I still have even seen some VGs muster out potent damage so great players can still make them work. What I see is good players can make almost any class decent, bad players fail miserably on weak classes and do at best average on stronger classes. Most of the whine posts about classes being OP'd in regs are by less than average skilled players imo. Well a large part is fluff damage. But I was more specifically talking about their survival and the CDs when compared to other classes. It is a weird meta right now. In a warzone with few ranged some melee classes shine. Add a couple ranged and you can literally shut down the melee to nothing more then bothersome flies. Whereas ranged can shine in either environment. Good players can maximize any class I agree with that. However, there are too many situations in the current meta that the only chance to maximize is to run away or play hit and run. I play a merc, a jugg and a mara in PvP regularly. The differences are amazing in the amount of work that needs to be done to actually be successful on each. I'll let you guess which is the easiest. Edited January 17, 2017 by Kawiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Good players can maximize any class I agree with that. However, there are too many situations in the current meta that the only chance to maximize is to run away or play hit and run. I play a merc, a jugg and a mara in PvP regularly. The differences are amazing in the amount of work that needs to be done to actually be successful on each. I'll let you guess which is the easiest. That's true, mercs are very easy to get a lot out of compared to some of the other classes like marauders for instance. But the thing is, lots of classes are this way. Healing mercs take tons of effort and work and still manage to underperform when you compare them to sorcs. At least with a marauder, it's damage ceiling is so high even if it's harder to maximize, it can still outshine a merc with damage output in pvp. Same with a jugg in regs, I see juggs that regularly pump out more damage than the majority of mercs or snipers. It depends on matches too, and lots of other variables but I can't agree with the sentiment that melee are in a bad place in regs right now. Ranged do not shine in all circumstances especially in regs where LOS is much easier to utilize. Snipers who do awesome in regs are typically awesome players it's not because the class is easy to play. Yes, mercs have a simple rotation and a simple but strong set of dcds now, however I still am waiting to see this giant scourge of mercs in the wzs and do not see it. Same with snipers. If snipers are so OP'd now, why do you not see 4-5 of them on a team in regs? I do see 3-6 marauders/juggs on my teams constantly. I honestly believe the majority of the crying about mercs is overblown and feel it's only warranted for 4v4s, and even then it probably only truly applies in group ranked which is by far the least played meta of PVP on this game. The whiners who cry the most about mercs don't even do group ranked. The ones who should be complaining about mercs have remained fairly mum on the topic which proves to me the most vocal who cry for nerfs are bads that have temper tantrums because they can't get their easy merc kills in regs and solo ranked anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Same with a jugg in regs, I see juggs that regularly pump out more damage than the majority of mercs or snipers. I don't know how to even respond. Jugg damage is in no way comparable to merc damage. Yes you can achieve great numbers on a Jugg but this is done by dot spreading. A merc which is close (or exceeds) in DPS is almost 100% single target damage. If you don't understand this simple concept I can't waste my time even responding anymore. Edited January 17, 2017 by Kawiki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I don't know how to even respond. Jugg damage is in no way comparable to merc damage. Yes you can achieve great numbers on a Jugg but this is done by dot spreading. A merc which is close (or exceeds) in DPS is almost 100% single target damage. If you don't understand this simple concept I can't waste my time even responding anymore. I guess I must happen to be the only person that plays with special idiot savant players who main juggs that can perform well on them then. I am not saying it's easy, or frequent but i see juggs that do top damage charts in wzs. Call it fluff damage, or make up whatever excuse you want, the fact is juggs are capable of doing a lot of damage. Yes, snipers and mercs should do more, but that isn't always the case and a great player can take a jugg or a marauder and outshine ranged dps. Stop minimalizing what melee can do in PVP. This is what is annoying, when melee always play victim and refuse to admit that they actually are quite capable of doing just as much damage or more than ranged in PVP. It's circumstantial, I agree but don't try to paint the picture as if ranged always can outshine melee, because this is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I guess I must happen to be the only person that plays with special idiot savant players who main juggs that can perform well on them then. I am not saying it's easy, or frequent but i see juggs that do top damage charts in wzs. Call it fluff damage, or make up whatever excuse you want, the fact is juggs are capable of doing a lot of damage. Yes, snipers and mercs should do more, but that isn't always the case and a great player can take a jugg or a marauder and outshine ranged dps. Stop minimalizing what melee can do in PVP. This is what is annoying, when melee always play victim and refuse to admit that they actually are quite capable of doing just as much damage or more than ranged in PVP. It's circumstantial, I agree but don't try to paint the picture as if ranged always can outshine melee, because this is not true. Are we talking about looking good on the board or making a difference in the match? Juggs look great on a board, all those medals, they mitigated some damage, they did incredible DPS. Unless it is huttball, I will still take the mediocre merc... and honestly these days I might take the merc in huttball. Ranked forgetaboutit, take the merc. Don't get me wrong I love playing my Jugg but your type of attitude is why DPS Sorcs got nerfed to oblivion and why Juggs have fallen so far behind other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Are we talking about looking good on the board or making a difference in the match? Juggs look great on a board, all those medals, they mitigated some damage, they did incredible DPS. Unless it is huttball, I will still take the mediocre merc... and honestly these days I might take the merc in huttball. Ranked forgetaboutit, take the merc. Don't get me wrong I love playing my Jugg but your type of attitude is why DPS Sorcs got nerfed to oblivion and why Juggs have fallen so far behind other classes. I notice no drop off with juggs in regs. Juggs have been weak in ranked for a while now due to mitigation issues with certain types of damage and I would imagine that still is the case now. How have juggs fallen far behind now, and are you saying juggs are weaker now in 5.0 compared to 4.0? I won't pretend to know the details on this, but even you admit juggs do "incredible DPS", mitigate "some damage". I'd take a mediocre jugg over a mediocre merc personally. But, enlighten me how juggs are worse now compared to 4.0, only because I don't see it from scoreboards or how they perform in REG wzs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kawiki Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I notice no drop off with juggs in regs. Juggs have been weak in ranked for a while now due to mitigation issues with certain types of damage and I would imagine that still is the case now. How have juggs fallen far behind now, and are you saying juggs are weaker now in 5.0 compared to 4.0? I won't pretend to know the details on this, but even you admit juggs do "incredible DPS", mitigate "some damage". I'd take a mediocre jugg over a mediocre merc personally. But, enlighten me how juggs are worse now compared to 4.0, only because I don't see it from scoreboards or how they perform in REG wzs. lol, I think I'm being troll'd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 If snipers are so OP'd now, why do you not see 4-5 of them on a team in regs? I see snipers everywhere, and they definitely do crazy damage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I see snipers everywhere, and they definitely do crazy damage Come on, man. You see snipers everywhere? You see more snipers than you see juggs, maras, or ops, sins, or for that matter any other class now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedcjedcjedc Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Come on, man. You see snipers everywhere? You see more snipers than you see juggs, maras, or ops, sins, or for that matter any other class now? me specifically? yes. Though in the words of every game trailer ever, individual experiences may vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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