Juggernauts completely and utterly useless in PVP....

[Dreez]

This is my Rotation:

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Retaliation > Sundering Strike > Force Crush.

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Force Scream > Chilling Scream.

 

This is my discipline build.

https://tor.community/OK2Puq

 

Here's how combat goes against a healer - Jump healer, start hitting with my wet noodle because Juggernauts

apparently does crap for damage, healer barely notices. I Interupt whatever i can, but even when interupted,

the healer just uses another heal and .... health doesn't even move. I continue to chase the healer until

i am killed by the healers team... /respawn.

 

Here's how combat goes against ANY RANGED ..... Can't leap beause of their damn shield that apparently stops

the skill from working, have to approach by running. By the time i'm in melee, i get pushed back, stunned, can't break out

even with 3-4 Anti-CC abilities, ranged dps cuts my HP down to nothing without me being able to hit them once.

 

How combat goes against other melee except juggernauts: Attack, get CC'd / Stunned for 5-6 seconds and no

ability to break out, even with many anti-CC... lose 50% health before i can even engage into combat...

 

 

I DARE any Juggernaut-player to prove me wrong. But i say they are currently the most underpowered and broken

class both in 1v1 and teamcombat. We are a PVP-pinjata with no dps to speak of, we are easily CC'd, and

nothing but an annoyance to the enemy team.

 

When 1 dps can't kill a damn healer 1v1, that dps is a waste of space, a broken class.

[Kyuuu]

The are far from it.

 

Nor should 1 dps kill healer, they tuned to be able stay alive, only way healer should dying to 1 dps is if that healer is bad

Edited January 11, 2017 by Kyuuu

[KendraP]

As far killing healers I'm with the dude above, the only time I've ever been killed in my healer (pre or post 5.0) is when I've had multiple dps focusing me. Even without a guard. Granted I play a sage so the survivability is pretty beastly.

 

As far as ranged dudes, I haven't had much of a problem leaping to mercs or sorcs. Snipers, sure. But since they are so dependent on cover I don't really see a problem with them being un-leapable unless you get them out of cover.

 

I used to play tank guardians and have been trying vigilance sonce they made guard avaliable to dps specs. I tried focus for a while but found I suck at it. I don't feel useless. Sure I'm not a merc but theyre pretty beastly right now lol

Edited January 12, 2017 by KendraP

[AarenJ]

I've only been able to solo weak healers in warzones. I don't feel like my Rage juggernaut is useless in pvp but I'd welcome a buff regardless.

[Sotmax]

I m feeling like i m in the middle of execution from a merc family with my guardian or from a mando family with my jugg.

I m running around like crazy try to find which one i ll approach first. After that i have to buff myself again in spawn area cause i m dead already.

I really dont have any problem with snipers mercs mandos or anything. But too many of them are a problem.

I m about to switch main for that.

I love my guard/jugg but range classes punish us hard. And i m too old for this tbh.

I may feel better in range so i may switch to mando/merc until we get something....whatever...

Edited January 14, 2017 by Sotmax

[xShenanigansx]

We aren't ever supposed to be able to 1v1 a healer. No class is supposed to.

 

But juggernauts are not in a good place right now at all. Their damage is fine, but survivability needs a lot of help.

[Wallner]

Why is no class supposed to be able to win against a healer?

[Rash_in]

Healers are supposed to be able to keep a group up. If a healer is not able to at minimum themselves up, then there is something off.

[Evolixe]

I kind of Disagree.

[xShenanigansx]

I kind of Disagree.

 

This video is an awful is an awful resource to prove your point. That enemy team didn't know what they were doing, they were all split damage. They were also all stacked.... against a very heavy cleave comp. There was also no CC going out and I saw a lot of back pedaling around wasting globals due to them freaking out.

 

Case in point, if you have 4 juggernauts, and the enemy team all stacks and just stands there for you to cleave them down, you're likely going to win.

[Sith-Viscera]

This is my Rotation:

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Retaliation > Sundering Strike > Force Crush.

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Force Scream > Chilling Scream.

 

This is my discipline build.

https://tor.community/OK2Puq

 

Here's how combat goes against a healer - Jump healer, start hitting with my wet noodle because Juggernauts

apparently does crap for damage, healer barely notices. I Interupt whatever i can, but even when interupted,

the healer just uses another heal and .... health doesn't even move. I continue to chase the healer until

i am killed by the healers team... /respawn.

 

Here's how combat goes against ANY RANGED ..... Can't leap beause of their damn shield that apparently stops

the skill from working, have to approach by running. By the time i'm in melee, i get pushed back, stunned, can't break out

even with 3-4 Anti-CC abilities, ranged dps cuts my HP down to nothing without me being able to hit them once.

 

How combat goes against other melee except juggernauts: Attack, get CC'd / Stunned for 5-6 seconds and no

ability to break out, even with many anti-CC... lose 50% health before i can even engage into combat...

 

 

I DARE any Juggernaut-player to prove me wrong. But i say they are currently the most underpowered and broken

class both in 1v1 and teamcombat. We are a PVP-pinjata with no dps to speak of, we are easily CC'd, and

nothing but an annoyance to the enemy team.

 

When 1 dps can't kill a damn healer 1v1, that dps is a waste of space, a broken class.

 

What he said.

 

My rotation is tad different but = the exact same results that he gets in every form. So wouldnt that suggest if we are getting same out come with 2 simi different rotations, its not the player its the class. I had many rotations over the years and same out come. I had just up and quit pvp altogether for the past 2 years. 5.0 came out i tried it again, i am doing a lot better. I'm not the bottom of the barrel player any more. I am more mid to high player on the match score board but with TONS of improvements, the class still needs.

 

I am with main poster on this one.

[Evolixe]

This video is an awful is an awful resource to prove your point. That enemy team didn't know what they were doing, they were all split damage. They were also all stacked.... against a very heavy cleave comp. There was also no CC going out and I saw a lot of back pedaling around wasting globals due to them freaking out.

 

Case in point, if you have 4 juggernauts, and the enemy team all stacks and just stands there for you to cleave them down, you're likely going to win.

 

Why so serious?

 

I'm mocking the whole doom & gloom thing. Because honestly.. the class isn't that bad.

In the right hands you can still make a good case for yourselves. Other classes have had it much worse for far longer.

 

But I am by no means claiming that was a holy grail of a game. It was just funny in relation.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Evolixe

[Alec_Fortescue]

Why so serious?

 

I'm mocking the whole doom & gloom thing. Because honestly.. the class isn't that bad.

In the right hands you can still make a good case for yourselves. Other classes have had it much worse for far longer.

 

But I am by no means claiming that was a holy grail of a game. It was just funny in relation.

 

I had that scoundrel as a healer, he's not doing anything...

[Evolixe]

I had that scoundrel as a healer, he's not doing anything...

 

[Wallner]

Healers are supposed to be able to keep a group up. If a healer is not able to at minimum themselves up, then there is something off.

 

Then why doesn't everyone play healer?

[Ottoattack]

Then why doesn't everyone play healer?

 

Because healing idiots is the worst position you can be in. You have no impact on the game what so ever.

[Rash_in]

Then why doesn't everyone play healer?

 

Imagine yourself as the DPS vs 1 healer. You are hitting them, and they are healing themselves. Your HP gauge wouldn't be going down but neither would theirs. All the effort you are putting on killing the healer is being mitigated by the healer also working keeping themselves alive. It is a stalemate. The DPS output that a healer would be putting towards you would be negligible to non-existent. So in the broader fight with more than 1v1, you have healers that kite and LOS heal so that they aren't going to be focused down by more than 1 person. This is why the trinity / so called perfect formation exists (i.e 1 tank, 2 dps, 1 heals).

 

Also, it is not impossible to kill a healer. The difference is experience. A lot of inexperienced healers will be able to be killed during a match. Separate them from the group, cc, interrupt, and burst down. Most competent healers will be able to put themselves in a position that the rest of the team will switch focus during a fight if the person keeping them alive, is being targeted so that they can continue keeping the rest of the team alive.

 

 

...so why doesn't everyone play a healer? because it is a team effort to kill the enemy.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Rash_in
Actually answering the question

[Yezzan]

Play Vengeance or Immortal, problem solved.

[rothfussian]

Jugg is far from useless... In both Rage and Vengy, a good jugg can easily pull top damage. The thing with Jugg is that it is all about your defensive's. minus perhaps a really good Merc you should be the most survivable DPS class, (if you are getting globaled, then you probably need to learn your DCD's better). As for killing healers, you should never be able to solo a healers.

[cool-dude]

healers would be useless if they could get killed by one dps. Anyway, I only read bits and pieces of the Op, but it sounds like a l2p issue. Edited January 25, 2017 by cool-dude

[xShenanigansx]

Yes you should never be able to 1v1 a healer, but you should be able to pressure them enough that it keeps them on their toes. And that is currently possible. The damage aspect behind juggernauts is fine, just where it needs to be. What needs the work is the survivability. The DCD's just don't compare to that of other classes.

[Lithdox]

This is my Rotation:

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Retaliation > Sundering Strike > Force Crush.

Raging Burst > Furious Strike > Obliterate > Force Scream > Chilling Scream.

 

This is my discipline build.

https://tor.community/OK2Puq

 

Here's how combat goes against a healer - Jump healer, start hitting with my wet noodle because Juggernauts

apparently does crap for damage, healer barely notices. I Interupt whatever i can, but even when interupted,

the healer just uses another heal and .... health doesn't even move. I continue to chase the healer until

i am killed by the healers team... /respawn.

 

Here's how combat goes against ANY RANGED ..... Can't leap beause of their damn shield that apparently stops

the skill from working, have to approach by running. By the time i'm in melee, i get pushed back, stunned, can't break out

even with 3-4 Anti-CC abilities, ranged dps cuts my HP down to nothing without me being able to hit them once.

 

How combat goes against other melee except juggernauts: Attack, get CC'd / Stunned for 5-6 seconds and no

ability to break out, even with many anti-CC... lose 50% health before i can even engage into combat...

 

 

I DARE any Juggernaut-player to prove me wrong. But i say they are currently the most underpowered and broken

class both in 1v1 and teamcombat. We are a PVP-pinjata with no dps to speak of, we are easily CC'd, and

nothing but an annoyance to the enemy team.

 

When 1 dps can't kill a damn healer 1v1, that dps is a waste of space, a broken class.

 

All i can say is L2P. I top dps and prot in 90% of warzones (regs).

[Kaedusz]

Juggs can be somewhat weak if the enemy team is full of fully geared and coordinated premades, but that rarely happens. I am currently having a blast with my jugg.

 

The surviveability outside of DCDs leaves something to be desired, yes, but it's not a pain worth qqing. In such moments i just play more passively.

 

Giving dps juggs some kind of nerfed version of ''Invinsible'' to dps specs would solve a lot of problems, without making them op.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Kaedusz

[Alec_Fortescue]

All i can say is L2P. I top dps and prot in 90% of warzones (regs).

 

Yeah? And what's your rating tough guy?

[GrandLordMenace]

All i can say is L2P. I top dps and prot in 90% of warzones (regs).

 

Any fool with a pocket healer can fluff his way to top damage. Any fool in Vengeance can get 9k DPS when the stars align. This isn't skill, it's scratching the surface. Make your way to solo ranked and actually see what queing as a DPS jugg is like when there's no one to handhold you. You have to claw and scrape for every scrap of rating as you slowly, painfully, climb up. It's a game of brains more than a game of fighting.

 

Lmk how being the first target of 3 mercs in an arena is like with no healers, and lmk how you turn that around into a win (it's *********** hard)