Ilum DISCOURAGES PvP

[harkain]

Solution:

 

 

Change Weekly quests to: Kill 1000 Republic/Imperial in PVP area.

 

Change Daily Quest to: Kill 50 Republic/Imperial in PVP area.

 

Give bonus rewards for objectives, 1 per Daily quest turn-in.

 

 

This, however will not stop people from simply kill-swapping.

 

every solution has a way to be cheated by the lame ppl.

 

its a problem with the so called pvp crowd that in every game they find a way to cheat/work around the ideas of the devs be it bo swapping or rating duels or point farm arena teams. Its an issue but its an issue with the ppl not the game, bw should just make their stance clear on bo swapping etc and start banning the first 10k players they find doing it ppl will get discouraged enough from doing it with a few thousand public perma bans.

[pherball]

Sorry for the double post, but saw this late. You are actually very wrong. OPvP does exist. My sig is proof.

 

Next...

 

That's cute that you are cataloguing your kills. I, too, have many "OPvP" kills. You obviously never played a real pvp game (DAoC, Shadowbane, EVE, etc). This is the shallowest inception of PvP I, or probably anyone in the know, has ever seen. I've basically beaten the PvP game already, the only thing left to do is min/max my mods and play against pre-mades in WZ's.

 

 

 

every solution has a way to be cheated by the lame ppl.

 

its a problem with the so called pvp crowd that in every game they find a way to cheat/work around the ideas of the devs be it bo swapping or rating duels or point farm arena teams. Its an issue but its an issue with the ppl not the game, bw should just make their stance clear on bo swapping etc and start banning the first 10k players they find doing it ppl will get discouraged enough from doing it with a few thousand public perma bans.

 

 

You don't get it, and BW doesn't get it either. The fact this is happening is indicative of bad design. They knew this was going to happen, b/c it happened in beta and if they didn't see this before it was implemented they don't deserve to be making a "AAA" MMO. This kind of swapping NEVER happened in DAoC b/c there was no point. They tried way too hard to make a WAR/WoW hybrid game. To not take every page out of DAoC's PvP game at this point in the genre baffles me.

[PurveyorOfTruth]

Now if this is the case with Illum, it is a huge mechanical design flaw that needs to be addressed ASAP or they will start to see end game PvPers leave en masse.

 

The simplest solution would be to scrap objective dailies and replace them with kill/damage/heal/protect dailies and make control of Illum give some server wide faction bonus.

 

This I pulled out of my head on the fly. I'll ponder some better ideas once I actually get to play Illum

[Avip]

Did anyone else just facepalm when they said they were bringing over warhammer monkeys to do TOR PvP? Well this is the result. Warhammer has 2 whole servers left up in it's PvP focused game, does that not tell them anything?

 

Zero incentive to defend, zero incentive to even attack after you finish your daily. Waste of programming resources that could have went elsewhere.

[ChuckThePug]

Having all that gear is fine and dandy, most of those players wont be able to use it when they find they can't run from a PVP engagement.

 

Just notice how many walk backwards when you attack them and spam their zero cost attack.

 

We need stats.

 

Epic gear doesn't mean anything in mmos anymore. Anybody can gear in Sw:TOR, it's a simple grind.

 

We need stats. Defensive stands, KDR, healing ect...

 

We need zone wide rewards per faction,.... holding points gives % increase to stats ect....

 

Give a reason to defend and hold, not swap.

Edited December 29, 2011 by ChuckThePug

[Avantasia]

Any time you reward the path of least resistance this will happen. No matter the game, and no matter if it is PvE or PvP.

 

Consider this: if there is a glitch where people can avoid trash mobs in a raid, they will use it. Since killing trash gives them no tangible benefits.

 

Just like in PvP. If playing keep swaps (for example) enables you to get gear quicker or progress in PvP ranks quicker, people will do it. Since this is quicker by not having to kill other players whereupon there is no greater reward, why would they?

 

It is sad when a game designer can't highlight this problem of giving a clear advantage to the paths of least resistance and find a solution, since every game is going to cop the same issue.

 

This needs to fall on the head of those who were involved in both WAR and now SWTOR, since it is a running theme. But unfortunately I believe there is no accuntability for these game design choices, because these same designers will just move onto the next MMO, taking with them the same flawed design concepts and never nutting out a solution that would see a game that, by all rights, should blossom into a healthy RvR contest.

 

That is all I believe those of us with this problem want.

 

I quit WAR because people literally laughed at the suggesstion of fighting the opposing players in RvR lakes, rather than doing their ring-around-a-rosey keep/BO swaps. I really don't want this game to share the same fate.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Avantasia

[pherball]

Now if this is the case with Illum, it is a huge mechanical design flaw that needs to be addressed ASAP or they will start to see end game PvPers leave en masse.

 

The first players on Anchorhead (and probably the whole game) are hitting Valor 60 today. The only thing left to do is hope you get queued with another pre-made... or twink an alt.

[MaximusNem]

I want DAOC OPVP. I don't understand why they can't come up with something that encourages pvp instead of this ****** *** system they have in place now. They need to implement a system where they have bases that you fight over and if you have all the bases that faction gets perks like faster leveling in PvE and PvP, Global buffs. I mean really this is a fun game but don't mess it up with crap like this. Also for daily's and weekly's you have to take one base for you daily and you have to have all bases to get your weekly. You could also get your daily and weekly be defending a base for say 30 minutes. Another idea would have anyone be able to participate even if your level 15. Just scale it up like they do in the warzones. It would be fun as hell, but no keep this system in and loose your player base.

 

Also if I have to keep playing Huttball I am going to quit PvPing altogether and just level characters to see each story line and then quit. PvE is just another loot grind, fun for awhile but gets really old fast....

Edited December 29, 2011 by MaximusNem

[rocdogg]

The obvious solution to all of this crap is to just make HOLDING objectives reward the mission completion (say, 30 minutes).

 

This would be my preference.

[Speno]

mythic made WAR, aka the game that invented objective swapping, ignoring months of sensible suggestions from players etc

 

Mythic made DAOC the ONLY game with great PVP. But this is mainly due to a third faction. It was always if Albion got to strong, Midgaurd and Hibernia would usually jointly attack them. That made for the best checks and balance system of any game.

[ViperI]

You cannot point all the blame at BW. A large amount of PvP'ers are just honestly not there to PvP but get gear. These are not PvP'ers.

 

^^This. You're spot on here.

[ShadowPrincess]

pvp is so horrible on all levels now its a shame. And the op is right. this is more failed mechanics brought back to life. keep going bioware. our guild has already had people quit over your lame attempts at pvp.

[Tohrazer]

im encouraged by how much support for the original post is in this thread, i can think of atleast 10 equally stupid systems implemented, but i guess we can only complain about a few at a time or BW will be paralyzed with game fixing Edited December 30, 2011 by Tohrazer

[sleepthief]

the amount of times me and my friends just sit on comms COMPLETELY exasperated with developers, that make the same errors over and over, when there are obvious answers staring everyone else in the face - what the heck is wrong with these people?? do they actually PLAY these games?

 

No.

/5char

[WLpride]

Did anyone else just facepalm when they said they were bringing over warhammer monkeys to do TOR PvP? Well this is the result. Warhammer has 2 whole servers left up in it's PvP focused game, does that not tell them anything?

 

Zero incentive to defend, zero incentive to even attack after you finish your daily. Waste of programming resources that could have went elsewhere.

 

I think they heading in a similar direction already tbh. I know it's harsh to say that so soon, but indecision and second guessing their way through this parade won't work. They need someone PROFESSIONAL to make calls about this stuff and not a PvE-attached director trying to satisfy 1000 different requests.

 

Let's see some leadership, lets see a example set here...

[Tohrazer]

I think they heading in a similar direction already tbh. I know it's harsh to say that so soon, but indecision and second guessing their way through this parade won't work. They need someone PROFESSIONAL to make calls about this stuff and not a PvE-attached director trying to satisfy 1000 different requests.

 

Let's see some leadership, lets see a example set here...

 

they should hire me tbh

[Setarcos]

My hope is that this will go away once Ilum starts to fill up. When there are only 5 people per side in Ilum at a time it's hard to have a constant battle for objectives.

 

They could also bump up the WZ benefit of the Ilum buffs to entice people to do Ilum and queue from there.

[Tohrazer]

My hope is that this will go away once Ilum starts to fill up. When there are only 5 people per side in Ilum at a time it's hard to have a constant battle for objectives.

 

They could also bump up the WZ benefit of the Ilum buffs to entice people to do Ilum and queue from there.

 

i was stood in the middle of 7 imps earlier, not 1 of them felt any inclination to attack me in any way, and why would they? their success relies on my cooperation, lol..

[Airees]

My hope is that this will go away once Ilum starts to fill up. When there are only 5 people per side in Ilum at a time it's hard to have a constant battle for objectives.

 

They could also bump up the WZ benefit of the Ilum buffs to entice people to do Ilum and queue from there.

 

Going by how Ilum looked on my server when it came up on Tuesday this isn't going away. And there's really no reason why it every would. If you want people to actually fight, there needs to be a reason to defend. WoW fixed this excellently by having recurring events and giving the winning side rewards. Ofc you'll have the issue of completely lopsided server populations to deal with which would most likely lead to gating, but I'd still prefer that over this completely non-sensical design.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Airees

[Avantasia]

Ofc you'll have the issue of completely lopsided server populations to deal with which would most likely lead to gating, but I'd still prefer that over this completely non-sensical design.

 

We had this problem in the early days of WAR. Our server was heavily Destro, but we circumvented the pop imbalance by organising the RvR guilds into a cohesive group. We had a vent set up so that the guild leaders would be in a channel and would relay info/commands to the warband leader who would be in another vent channel with the rest of the players. This was to avoid crosstalk and worked beautifully with a number of guilds organising into groups with different 'objectives' in the RvR lakes.

 

This was by far the best feeling of server community I have felt in a game and it allowed us to overcome greater odds by playing smarter. It also led to Destro ultimately beginning their own cooperation amongst their guilds which really made it a challenge for us.

 

Unfortunately this sense of community and togetherness isn't a common thing, as much as I wish it were. Too many guilds (and individuals) are out for themselves.

 

Vale the good times.

[HHHHellraizer]

Mythic also made DaoC probably one the THE best games for open world pvp and objectives at that. Keeps, fortresses, and relics was a great idea and still works. I dont see why Ilum or whatever planet cannot be a hotbed for pvp. I would split the planet in two and have a republic base and an empire base. You have to capture smaller bases which can be claimed and upgraded by guilds (same as daoc). Upgrades can give player mountable turrets, AE mortars, more NPCs etc

 

Once those bases get captured the defenses at the main base would be hindered and would give the enemy a much closer spot in which to send reinforcements and to spawn from. Maybe tie in crew skills as well. How awesome would it be for cybertechs to be able to craft some mountable turrets or some ****** NPC droids inside the captured base? It would require them to actually do work, but they would get points via the damage/kills done by their devices. Tie in biochem, biochems can make little medical stations that can sell medpacks, stimpacks etc They can also cure some form of pvp weakness after death. There is always things you can do to involve the player and reward them for helping the war effort besides saying "hey go join the zerg and mindless beat on a force shield until it drops"

[Havocis]

mythic made WAR, aka the game that invented objective swapping, ignoring months of sensible suggestions from players etc

 

Just FYI and I am sure this post will get deleted cause they dont like truth. You need to go read the blogs online from former mythic employees that got laid off after the fail that was Warhammer which states that most of mythics ideas and even more so those of Mark Jacobs were NOT used for warhammer. The main guy who they had to go through in order to change anything in warhammer had his own ideas as to "what gamers want" and would not take Jacobs or any of the other HEAD mythic peoples ideas or listen to them.

 

From what I read at one point it got so bad Jacobs locked him self in his office and stopped trying all together due to how bad this lead dev was ruining warhammer during creation. Sooo in the end Jacobs gets all the blame gets laid off with a good amount of the other mythic employees whos ideas were not listened to and were most likely laid off due to clashes they were having with the head dev that messed up warhammer. Well the head dev of warhammer got promoted and is NOW the main person in charge of all SWTOR ideas and designs.

 

So just to clear things up... the MAIN person who gets to accept or deny game implemented changes or design for warhammer, is the SAME person that is doing it for SWTOR.

[Avantasia]

So just to clear things up... the MAIN person who gets to accept or deny game implemented changes or design for warhammer, is the SAME person that is doing it for SWTOR.

 

I'd have to agree with that, due to a very similar crop of game design flaws.

 

What happened with Mark Jacobs was a rather sad example of scapegoating.

[sixthousand]

the amount of times me and my friends just sit on comms COMPLETELY exasperated with developers, that make the same errors over and over, when there are obvious answers staring everyone else in the face - what the heck is wrong with these people?? do they actually PLAY these games?

 

 

 

you should apply to the company so you can fix it, i mean you're so good right?

[Nostredamus]

Maybe you should consider Operations? I hear they are all about rewards.

 

When you play sports, do you play them to enjoy the sport or just some random trophey? They trophey is always nice, but that doesn't explain why millions play the game with no endgame result apart from enjoyment.

 

That's what PvP is, it's basically a sport. Yes rewards are nice, but if you're enjoyment comes down to completing dailies, then PvP isn't all for you.

 

It is sad that these same people then bash BW for not having made their PvP more exciting, when these people don't even like it truly in the first place.

 

Little presents get old eventually, you will never end up satisfied.

 

TH

 

I disagree. I am a pvper first and foremost and I want rewards for my preferred style of play. Given the choice between playing football in my backyard with friends or playing football in the nfl for millions of dollars, I chose the nfl (obviously that could never happen for me irl). That does not mean I do not love football.

 

Yes I have fun for pvping for the sake of pvping, but I am also worried about the longterm. What kind of investment am I going to get into my character when I am not progressing towards something in any way (in world pvp). I don't want pvp to be something I do a maybe once a month in the backyard with the guys when we are bored, I want world pvp to be a fully fleshed out competitive game with rewards and incentives just like the nfl.

Edited December 31, 2011 by Nostredamus