So which class is the Outlander?

[Aeneas_Falco]

Since Ziost? They've had tech classes battle powerful Force users since vanilla.

 

The Smuggler kills three Dark Council members single handedly on Corellia in doing the Republic planetary storyline alone.

 

You're confusing the world arc with class stories.

 

All three Dark Councilors are killed during the planet's quests, which are accessible by any Republic character and are not class specific. If you play Corellia multiple times with different characters and do the planetary quests each time, you'll kill the Dark Councilors will all four of your Republic characters.

 

Like KOTFE and KOTET, Corellia's planet arc works best with a force user. The Smuggler dropping three Dark Councilors is more than a little silly. It's like Han Solo or Lando Calrissian killing Palpatine and Darth Vader.

[adormitul]

There is no evidence that Jun Seros is a badarse (that profanity filter). He may have been in this youth. But you never see him fight prior. A title doesn't make him powerful. Ask that Master Jango easily killed in Ep2. Battlemaster means he is a trainer and has skills. The skills don't equate to actual power in the force. I'm not saying he was a weakling scrub necessarily, but he wasn't on Jadus or Tormen's level. Tormen could have just force choked the BH to death or snap his neck with a thought, disarmed him or picked him up and threw him against a wall so hard he splats. And there is nothing that the BH can do to protect himself from such attacks. No matter how good he is he's just a guy with a gun.

 

It's probably easy to kill a hundred mind addled Mandos... spread out over a hundred fights. The first mistake is assuming he took on 100 at once. Or that the average mando lives up to the reputation. However, Kellian Jarro turned out to be a one trick pony. Without his mind dulling powers to nullify opponents he wasn't so tough and it's obvious because as soon as the force persuade fails his padawan panics and he tries to talk you into just leaving because even he knows he ain't sh-t without it. You're the best Bh/mando in the galaxy vs. what can be surmised to be an average Jedi fighter who happens to excel at force persuasion (which you are immune to).

 

As I said before, all the others besides Jadus and Tormen (that I can recall) can be explained away as not being the cream of the crop. Whenever the conversation of techs killing Jedi comes up everyone always wants to generalize the topic. That's why I explicitly stated *powerful* force users, not any ole Jedi. And I specifically point out the fact that in the case of Jadus and Tormen you see how powerful they are prior to any possible fight. It's not based on unfounded presumptions that they are powerful. You actually see what they can do for yourself. Jadus could just vanish and kill the agent without him ever seeing it coming. He just used the technique against your companion right before the fight starts. But when you actually start fighting he's like "I'm too powerful. It's not fair. I should hold back." LOL.

"Jedi Master Kellian Jarro is both hated and respected among the Mandalorians for his actions during the Sacking of Coruscant. As the Jedi Temple burned, Master Jarro single-handedly eliminated over one hundred battle-hardened Mandalorian commandos in the streets of Galactic City. The survivors described him as an unstoppable force of nature, deflecting heavy blaster fire and slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact. Nearly half of Master Jarro’s victims came from the venerable Clan Spar, which swore an oath to repay the debt. Unfortunately, the clan members were executed for crimes against the Empire before they could make good on that promise."

 

This is from the codex to make my point. So yeah I was right here. And Jun Seros was quite a capable TK user he did stopped a rocked in mid air. This are fast things good reflex there. I know because it was in a cutscene. But do not get me wrong this are jedi not sith they do not snap necks and other things so they give you a fighting chance. Force push is good but it does not usually kill you. Not that it did not sometimes but lets assume that the armor and shield and phisique can protect the BH from the impact. About being disarmed yes but he still has his darts his flame trower and his jetpack and other wrist weapons. Yes sith will just snap their necks so chance there but there not sith their jedi.

Oh and in KOTFE and KOTET Valkorian actually protects you with a force shield so they can not snap your neck so it give you a advantage there to fight force users they can not choke, snap your neck, crush your skulls or other things because of that shield so we really had a advantage there as a tech user.

[cool-dude]

A lightside Knight and Consular are on even ground.

 

The prophecy in Drew's Revan novel states that a champion of the lightside of the force would defeat the emperor and become King/Queen of the universe.

 

Jedi Knight deals with the emperor directly.

 

Consular deals with his children.

 

Both classes would get the attention of the Emperor. the rest of the classes I have found sort of make no sense, even the warrior.

Edited January 3, 2017 by cool-dude

[Dayshadow]

"Jedi Master Kellian Jarro is both hated and respected among the Mandalorians for his actions during the Sacking of Coruscant. As the Jedi Temple burned, Master Jarro single-handedly eliminated over one hundred battle-hardened Mandalorian commandos in the streets of Galactic City. The survivors described him as an unstoppable force of nature, deflecting heavy blaster fire and slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact. Nearly half of Master Jarro’s victims came from the venerable Clan Spar, which swore an oath to repay the debt. Unfortunately, the clan members were executed for crimes against the Empire before they could make good on that promise."

 

This is from the codex to make my point. So yeah I was right here. And Jun Seros was quite a capable TK user he did stopped a rocked in mid air. This are fast things good reflex there. I know because it was in a cutscene. But do not get me wrong this are jedi not sith they do not snap necks and other things so they give you a fighting chance. Force push is good but it does not usually kill you. Not that it did not sometimes but lets assume that the armor and shield and phisique can protect the BH from the impact. About being disarmed yes but he still has his darts his flame trower and his jetpack and other wrist weapons. Yes sith will just snap their necks so chance there but there not sith their jedi.

Oh and in KOTFE and KOTET Valkorian actually protects you with a force shield so they can not snap your neck so it give you a advantage there to fight force users they can not choke, snap your neck, crush your skulls or other things because of that shield so we really had a advantage there as a tech user.

 

Nice story, bro. But it's just a story the mandos made up to lessen the strong of their defeat. The actual encounter proves it to be an exaggeration. The ability to stop a rocket doesn't make Jun particularly powerful. The basic ability to block blaster bolts with a lightsaber is more impressive and requires faster reflexes. I'd expect a halfway decent force user to be able to do that much. If you can't even manipulate objects why would they even be allowed to be knights in the first place? The extremely weak go to the peace corps or work in the library.

 

Jedi do not give you a fighting chance when you are trying to kill them. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard. Did Mace Windu give Jango a fighting chance? Did Yoda and Obi-wan give those clone troopers a fighting chance? Jun Seros was an old man past his prime. Plain and simple. Karro was nothing without his mind altering techniques to fall on. Nuff said.

 

Oh and in KOTFE and KOTET Valkorian actually protects you with a force shield so they can not snap your neck so it give you a advantage there to fight force users they can not choke, snap your neck, crush your skulls or other things because of that shield so we really had a advantage there as a tech user.

 

Smuggler voice: Really? You sure about that?

 

 

It doesn't seem to quite work that way. He has to actively request/allow Valkorian to help. Were you referring to something in particular? If so, can you post it?

Edited January 3, 2017 by Dayshadow

[adormitul]

Nice story, bro. But it's just a story the mandos made up to lessen the strong of their defeat. The actual encounter proves it to be an exaggeration. The ability to stop a rocket doesn't make Jun particularly powerful. The basic ability to block blaster bolts with a lightsaber is more impressive and requires faster reflexes. I'd expect a halfway decent force user to be able to do that much. If you can't even manipulate objects why would they even be allowed to be knights in the first place? The extremely weak go to the peace corps or work in the library.

 

Jedi do not give you a fighting chance when you are trying to kill them. That has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard. Did Mace Windu give Jango a fighting chance? Did Yoda and Obi-wan give those clone troopers a fighting chance? Jun Seros was an old man past his prime. Plain and simple. Karro was nothing without his mind altering techniques to fall on. Nuff said.

 

 

 

Smuggler voice: Really? You sure about that?

 

 

It doesn't seem to quite work that way. He has to actively request/allow Valkorian to help. Were you referring to something in particular? If so, can you post it?

 

There is no proof that it was a exaggeration. Sorry but absence of any other proof this is the truth for the ****** mandalorian slayer. My proof the last chapter of KOTFE where be made shield to protect us from Arcann's lightsaber.

My point is if you want to crush the neck or the skull basically anything that could kill you in a instant you will have to overcome the force shield of the strongest being in the galaxy at that time. Do you get my point.

Besides Anakin have you ever saw a jedi crushing someone trough the force? What I said is did you ever saw a jedi killing someone trough the force besides Anakin like crushing necks, skulls, hearts not trough cutting them with the lightsaber. That was my point they do not use the force directly to kill you they redirect missiles or they force push you and you might dies but its not certain and for every force power a jedi uses the BH has a counter your force push him he gets up. You try to cut his head he uses the jetpack to dodge granted their foot jetpacks but does it really matter? You try to redirect a blaster bolt he will go for the flametrower or if that fails he takes a grenade goes two steps of you and ignites it hoping that his armor will protect him from the blast a thing that someone did in a cutscene and survived.

[stoopicus]

 

I remember the mission with Vowrawn on Rishi, with him discussing ambition going forward. I remember her choking Servant One. In my mind, that's when the Wrath actively stops being the weapon of another master, culminating with taking the Eternal Throne as Empress. Baras betrayed his apprentice and was struck down by her, and the Emperor makes the same mistake - though that final vengeance obviously took considerably longer to deliver.

 

I also enjoyed the twisted notion that the Wrath in KOTET killed her way through Valkorion's family, ending with him. His admonishment to the Wrath in his final moments had more of an edge to it than Knight, and so does the Wrath's unique final line to him. As the Wrath, she didn't really feel out of place in the Valkorion family theater at the end, especially being a Pureblood Warrior unleashing Dramath, the red bookends of his unnaturally long life destroying him.

 

Having played as JK and SW, I felt that LS Warrior fit best for some of the reasons you mention in the spoilered text; it was the ultimate culmination of the Warrior story through the entire game, the final breaking of chains, and especially because of

the last line the warrior says to Valkorion (assuming she picks the correct dialogue option), like you mention; it's the single best-fitting, pitch-perfect line in the entire Warrior story line, and maybe the best single line uttered in the game by ANY character. In that time and place it is perfect. I literally cheered when she said it.

 

[Joluka]

The Sith Warrior is the Outlander. The Jedi Knight is the nemesis of the Emperor, but I strongly feel that there is a deeper connection between someone who was your closest ally before he became your worst enemy. All Vitiate did with the JK was twirl his mustache and it was cringe AF. The whole JK story was cringe AF. The JK had no actual, personal tie to the Emperor other than, "HE EVIL I KILL." I actually kinda felt like Kira should've been the JK and the JK should've been Kira.

 

The Warrior actually came to feel like he had a grander destiny than anybody in the galaxy, then, as a mirror to what happened in Quesh, the Emperor attempted to squash the heights he had helped his Wrath achieve. From that moment on, the Wrath realized that by fully embracing the Sith way could he ever be free of his betrayer's chains. He might have been built up, but now, for the first time, it would be up to him alone, his own motivations, and his own actions on behalf of himself, to bring the Emperor down to begging for his life under his bloodied boot. And that's exactly what he did.

 

So yeah, SW is the Outlander. I will say, though, that the 'canon' characters in Rise of the Hutt Cartel were definitely the Agent on Imperial side and the Trooper on the Republic side. From SoR onwards, though, it was the SW for sure.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Joluka

[psandak]

No, you can't.

 

RP doesn't mean just make up anything you want. There are rules to the world you're RPing in. No non-force using class could ever duel Vaylin or Arcann or Valkorian or any *powerful* force user for that matter. It's completely absurd. Even in their own class stories certain choices are cannon and some are completely absurd.

 

 

UM....

 

Mandalorians are FAMOUS for it

[SithKoriandr]

UM....

 

Mandalorians are FAMOUS for it

 

They're famous with taking out low ranking padawans and Jedi. They are not famous for taking out the awesome ones.

[stoopicus]

For example, Jango vs Mace Windu.

[cool-dude]

Non-force-users can take out force-users, but not directly like you can in game. Even Jango knew that.

[adormitul]

Non-force-users can take out force-users, but not directly like you can in game. Even Jango knew that.

 

Oh so true so true you do not advertise you are there you trow a grenade that you immediately shoot to make a explosion.

Look at Cade Bane for example he once showed himself to jedi he captured and then short circuited his sword. Basically he only advertise himself to the jedi so he will ignite his lightsaber so he can shoot it with his cortosis bullet so he can capture the jedi master.

I found this on the forum actually. But Jango killed the jedi by surprise as that jedi attacked Dooku and and got immediately shoot by by Jango who was a great shot.

Granted I can no explain how he beat Obi Wan directly but he did so there is that also.

[cool-dude]

The Sith Warrior is the Outlander..

 

 

There is something appealing about a story about the most feared/ruthless Sith Enforcer in the galaxy turning into it's savior.

[SithKoriandr]

I don't know. Replaying the Consular again, and I can see the Consular being the official Outlander.

 

The First Son is an extension of the Emperor and who's waiting for the Consular's arrival on Tython, because of just how powerful the Consular is? The First Son.

[Dayshadow]

There is no proof that it was a exaggeration. Sorry but absence of any other proof this is the truth for the ****** mandalorian slayer.

 

What are you smoking? The game itself is the proof. You actually fight him and see it was bullsh-t firsthand. You can ignore the concrete evidence all you want, but that doesn't make it non-existent. He isn't some great fighter. He was a one trick pony and his trick didn't work on the Bounty Hunter. If he or his padawan had any confidence in his actual skill she wouldn't be worrying the moment the mind trick failed and he wouldn't be trying to talk his way out of the confrontation like a man who knows he's about to get his arse handed to him. Since when is a Jedi going to simply let you leave after slaughtering all the republic troops you did to get to him. He's like, "Well, um OK.. I'm a totally force powerhouse and all and could easily slam you down so hard your rocket pack will explode, but.. umm, my force persuade failed so, um... yeah, how about we call this a draw and you just leave." LOL. Don't kid yourself. Jarro was similar to that guy from the Harry Potter movies who was famous for doing all these magical feats, but it turned he just took credit for other people accomplishments and wiping their memories. He was only good at erasing memories. He was a one trick pony just like Jarro.

 

My proof the last chapter of KOTFE where be made shield to protect us from Arcann's lightsaber. My point is if you want to crush the neck or the skull basically anything that could kill you in a instant you will have to overcome the force shield of the strongest being in the galaxy at that time. Do you get my point.

 

No. Because it's only at that last part. What about when you're force pulled into Arcann's lightsaber midway through if you don't accept Valkorian's help? Where was the protection then? Up until the point you mention you have no shield of invulnerability. Up until those last minutes of the entire expansion you're just some guy with a gun facing one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy. At the end of the day even if you had a shield the whole time how do you actually beat Arcann with a blaster? Deflecting blaster bolts is a basic ability. And Arcann is very powerful so you know he's not going out like Coleman Trebor. You have no tools to get the job done against a force user of Arcann's power. Oh, perhaps the "magic force blaster"? LOL!!! Jesus Christ, Bioware does not give two sh-ts about tech users. This is a force-user only story. Time to deal.

 

Besides Anakin have you ever saw a jedi crushing someone trough the force? What I said is did you ever saw a jedi killing someone trough the force besides Anakin like crushing necks, skulls, hearts not trough cutting them with the lightsaber.

 

Funny you would say this considering the tall tales the Mandalorian told about Kellian Jarro claim pretty much just that. The Mandolorians credit him with, "slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact". I'm not seeing how this is somehow a more humane form of killing. Kind of put your foot in your mouth there, huh? I'd think in a life or death situation you'd use whatever tools were available. Now you could argue that Jedi simply aren't taught these things and it simply doesn't come naturally to them to do it. But, again, foot in your own mouth. You're basically asserting that Jedi will hold back against bad people trying to kill them and allow evil to prevail. That's so utterly absurd.

 

We know it's a thing. Darth Tormen kills 3 people at once that way on the Tyrant right after he force pushes an entire squad of republic troopers into oblivion with a wave of his hands. Thanaton, beaten and humbled by the Inquisitor, is finished off in this fashion by Darth Ravage. Arcann is no Jedi.

[Dayshadow]

UM....

 

Mandalorians are FAMOUS for it

 

For killing scrubs. Not Jedi of say, Yoda's power. It's like saying that because I can beat up some private in the Army I can kick a navy seals arse. Come back down to reality. Force choke. Neck snap. Dead tech user. And there isn't a thing they could do to stop it from happening.

 

A tech user cannot fight a *POWERFUL* (<< very important adjective there that people seem to love to forget) force user directly. It has to be some elaborate ambush or trap.

Edited January 9, 2017 by Dayshadow

[Dayshadow]

Oh so true so true you do not advertise you are there you trow a grenade that you immediately shoot to make a explosion.

Look at Cade Bane for example he once showed himself to jedi he captured and then short circuited his sword. Basically he only advertise himself to the jedi so he will ignite his lightsaber so he can shoot it with his cortosis bullet so he can capture the jedi master.

I found this on the forum actually. But Jango killed the jedi by surprise as that jedi attacked Dooku and and got immediately shoot by by Jango who was a great shot.

Granted I can no explain how he beat Obi Wan directly but he did so there is that also.

 

Obi-wan needed him alive and well. I think Obi-wan would have easily killed him in a death match. And even then he had help from Boba Fett via Slave One.

 

Coleman Trebor was just a weakling. There was no surprise. He simple couldn't manage the most basic of Jedi skills: Blaster deflection. It wasn't a scatter gun, a flame thrower, multiple guns or anything special. He literally just pointed his gun and fired repeatedly. You or I could have done the same thing.

[Dayshadow]

It also occurs to me that only the Warrior has a LI. I think that adds something extra in favor of the Warrior.

 

It just seems odd that the Knight would just be OK with not knowing where Kira is. Unless she's in carbonite there really is no excuse for her not to show up by now. Or any romance really. Even then the Outlander doesn't seem all the broken up about them being missing. If you didn't romance anyone to a marriage level or don't care it doesn't matter, but a lot of people do and I figure more people romance Vette (the Malgus path) than cartoonishly Light/Dark Jaessa. I really hate how they handled that character. It's like she's a robot and you flipped the LS/DS switch on the back of her neck to decide what mode she is set too.

[adormitul]

What are you smoking? The game itself is the proof. You actually fight him and see it was bullsh-t firsthand. You can ignore the concrete evidence all you want, but that doesn't make it non-existent. He isn't some great fighter. He was a one trick pony and his trick didn't work on the Bounty Hunter. If he or his padawan had any confidence in his actual skill she wouldn't be worrying the moment the mind trick failed and he wouldn't be trying to talk his way out of the confrontation like a man who knows he's about to get his arse handed to him. Since when is a Jedi going to simply let you leave after slaughtering all the republic troops you did to get to him. He's like, "Well, um OK.. I'm a totally force powerhouse and all and could easily slam you down so hard your rocket pack will explode, but.. umm, my force persuade failed so, um... yeah, how about we call this a draw and you just leave." LOL. Don't kid yourself. Jarro was similar to that guy from the Harry Potter movies who was famous for doing all these magical feats, but it turned he just took credit for other people accomplishments and wiping their memories. He was only good at erasing memories. He was a one trick pony just like Jarro.

 

 

 

No. Because it's only at that last part. What about when you're force pulled into Arcann's lightsaber midway through if you don't accept Valkorian's help? Where was the protection then? Up until the point you mention you have no shield of invulnerability. Up until those last minutes of the entire expansion you're just some guy with a gun facing one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy. At the end of the day even if you had a shield the whole time how do you actually beat Arcann with a blaster? Deflecting blaster bolts is a basic ability. And Arcann is very powerful so you know he's not going out like Coleman Trebor. You have no tools to get the job done against a force user of Arcann's power. Oh, perhaps the "magic force blaster"? LOL!!! Jesus Christ, Bioware does not give two sh-ts about tech users. This is a force-user only story. Time to deal.

 

 

 

Funny you would say this considering the tall tales the Mandalorian told about Kellian Jarro claim pretty much just that. The Mandolorians credit him with, "slamming armor-plated warriors to the ground so hard that their rocket packs exploded on impact". I'm not seeing how this is somehow a more humane form of killing. Kind of put your foot in your mouth there, huh? I'd think in a life or death situation you'd use whatever tools were available. Now you could argue that Jedi simply aren't taught these things and it simply doesn't come naturally to them to do it. But, again, foot in your own mouth. You're basically asserting that Jedi will hold back against bad people trying to kill them and allow evil to prevail. That's so utterly absurd.

 

We know it's a thing. Darth Tormen kills 3 people at once that way on the Tyrant right after he force pushes an entire squad of republic troopers into oblivion with a wave of his hands. Thanaton, beaten and humbled by the Inquisitor, is finished off in this fashion by Darth Ravage. Arcann is no Jedi.

 

What about surviving the freaking lightsaber in the chest and moving after that does that not count as a form a protection? What are you smoking?

Gameplay does not count as evidence so that is no proof and the BH had prior knowledge of his feats so we are not that stupid that we would use our jetpack as those idiots did.

It does not matter if its more humane you can avoid that you can not avoid someone crushing your neck or heart or brain. I mean jedi do not use the force to kill you in a way that you have no chance. And yes force shield BH has even if that is penetrated Valkorian can protect you from hits that can kill you. He can not let you die as he will die also.

By the way how did Cade Bane manged to hold of Obi Wan, Quinlan Voss and more important Anakin he was no force user yet he managed to hold them off. Where is the superiority of force users then?

[NRieh]

At the end of the day even if you had a shield the whole time how do you actually beat Arcann with a blaster? Deflecting blaster bolts is a basic ability. And Arcann is very powerful so you know he's not going out like Coleman Trebor.

Such a great question, really...but I'd replace 'Arcann' with 'Valkorion' here. There's no *********** way a smuggler can make that shot (to begin with). Oh, wait! It had been Valk's plan all along, right? To get himself killed and transfer into the random non-forceuser's head?

 

Non-jedi PC had stopped making sense since the 'Revan' missions, imo. Anyone who's desperate enough to progress the story up to the kotfe boss fight should already know what we're dealing with. Surprisingly, kotet did not feel that bad compared to kotfe. At the very least I was assisted by two strong knights while fighting Vaylin (3 while fighting Valk). Nothing excuses forcing the throne on me, though. But it's not like I have a choice. It's either 'play what we've written' or 'delete your favourite MMO character'.

[Dayshadow]

What about surviving the freaking lightsaber in the chest and moving after that does that not count as a form a protection? What are you smoking?

 

The subject matter is specifically the force field and protection from the force. If not for Koth you would have died. So Valkorian keeping you alive is not so much protection as it is sustainment. The Inquisitor is sustained by his force ghosts similarly when Thanaton kills him.

 

Gameplay does not count as evidence so that is no proof and the BH had prior knowledge of his feats so we are not that stupid that we would use our jetpack as those idiots did.

 

Well, rather or not you have a jetpack or not is cosmetic. Depends on what chest piece you're wearing. But it's irrelevant. Being smashed that hard will kill you, jetpack or not. No explosion necessary.

 

Yes, gameplay does as it relates to the (more important) story. And the story makes it quite clear that Kellian Jarro was all talk as I already pointed out already. You can't refute the obvious so you ignore it. His padawan panics and he actually asks you to simply leave. He knows he's going to get his butt kicked the moment his mind tricks failed. There is no way a Jedi is just going to let you walk away if he's as tough as that Mandalorian clan would like people to believe. Some jedi mind tricked our guys and then went to town on them isn't a very good story to tell. Saying our clan is weak minded and a jedi beat us up with mind tricks isn't going to get you any bragging rights. And, yes, Mandos even brag about the people who beat them. Being beaten by a martially average to weak foes makes them look bad. It makes sense for them to exaggerate. Otherwise, they look bad.

 

But this is neither here or there really. The fact is that I can explain why the BH could defeat Jarro. There is no explanation for Tormen. None. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Hence, the Tormen fight is "non-canon". Which was my original point. If you want to believe a guy who, if you choose to believe the Mando's tale, killed HUNDREDS of them rather violently, but is playing nice guy with your BH who just murdered an entire republic crew, be my guest.

 

It does not matter if its more humane you can avoid that you can not avoid someone crushing your neck or heart or brain.

 

You cannot avoid being force grabbed. It's like saying you can dodge a force choke. It's a form of telekinesis. There is nothing to dodge. You can't dodge a thought.

 

I mean jedi do not use the force to kill you in a way that you have no chance.

 

What are you talking about? Jedi fight in a way to give you a chance? What is this nonsense you're speaking?

 

Stop being absurd and just deal with the fact that some guy on the internet won an argument about a fictional universe. The things people do for the sake of pride. You'd probably sit here and argue that Vader doesn't need breathing equipment to live wouldn't you. You'd dig in your heels and never just admit you're wrong.

 

By the way how did Cade Bane manged to hold of Obi Wan, Quinlan Voss and more important Anakin he was no force user yet he managed to hold them off. Where is the superiority of force users then?

 

Jedi trying to capture and not kill him (as in the Ob-wan vs. Jango fight). Most importantly, plot armor. There is literally nothing stopping them from just holding him in place. Unless, of course you would argue Obi-wan is weak. Doesn't work out so well when the powerful Jedi is out for blood (Jango vs. Mace Windu).

 

Cad Bane vs Sidious, Maul or any other strong force user playing for keeps equals a quick death. There are examples in the Clone Wars series of force users using abilities on no-force users for why it makes no sense other than plot armor for Cad Bane to be able to avoid capture. Powerful force users are superior to any guy with just a gun.

[SithKoriandr]

Well, it's generally said, one can't hold onto someone even with TK, if they're strong enough to resist you.

 

It's why, for example in another TK heavy universe, Hulk doesn't just get TKed every time he rampaged. People moving and trying to resist gives the TKer push back, making them harder to hold involuntarily.

[YoshiRaphElan]

Well, it's generally said, one can't hold onto someone even with TK, if they're strong enough to resist you.

 

It's why, for example in another TK heavy universe, Hulk doesn't just get TKed every time he rampaged. People moving and trying to resist gives the TKer push back, making them harder to hold involuntarily.

 

But if Kylo Ren can TK Rey and Poe, why couldn't Kenobi TK Bane?

 

Arguably, the answer is focus. Bane never let up long enough for Kenobi to focus and get a TK hold, and we've seen that Kenobi, while a very powerful Jedi, needs to build up his power (he pulls back and physically exerts himself to push Grievous in ROTS, for example). Whereas Ren seems to naturally excel at TK. Kenobi's powerful, but he's not a Skywalker, like Ren is; Ren shows practically no physical effort in using the Force, whereas Obi-Wan usually does.

[SithKoriandr]

But if Kylo Ren can TK Rey and Poe, why couldn't Kenobi TK Bane?

 

Arguably, the answer is focus. Bane never let up long enough for Kenobi to focus and get a TK hold, and we've seen that Kenobi, while a very powerful Jedi, needs to build up his power (he pulls back and physically exerts himself to push Grievous in ROTS, for example). Whereas Ren seems to naturally excel at TK. Kenobi's powerful, but he's not a Skywalker, like Ren is; Ren shows practically no physical effort in using the Force, whereas Obi-Wan usually does.

 

Well yes, Kylo being more powerful would mean others would have to strive harder to resist. Also, while Rey seemed to be powerful in the force, I'd bet she still wasn't as strong willed as Bane.

 

So powerful TKer (Kylo) against weaker opponents versus strong TK (Ben) against strong opponent.

 

However, yes, I'd also say some plot armor gets involved as well, but concentration would likely be a factor, and would be harder if they're trying to resist.

[Rabenschwinge]

For killing scrubs. Not Jedi of say, Yoda's power. It's like saying that because I can beat up some private in the Army I can kick a navy seals arse. Come back down to reality. Force choke. Neck snap. Dead tech user. And there isn't a thing they could do to stop it from happening.

 

A tech user cannot fight a *POWERFUL* (<< very important adjective there that people seem to love to forget) force user directly. It has to be some elaborate ambush or trap.

 

"Come back to reality" is a daring request when discussing the relative power of fictional warriors which command over magic.

Edited January 11, 2017 by Rabenschwinge