Devs said Jugs would be "fixed"

[Anselm]

Does anybody else recall the Dev post where they said Jugs would be the next class to receive some tweaking to up their damage? That was about a week before launch and I was wondering if Jugs will ever get dps comparable to the other tanking AC's or if they already "fixed" it in a patch just before launch and I missed it.

[Wodaz]

Does anybody else recall the Dev post where they said Jugs would be the next class to receive some tweaking to up their damage? That was about a week before launch and I was wondering if Jugs will ever get dps comparable to the other tanking AC's or if they already "fixed" it in a patch just before launch and I missed it.

 

Yeah when I was in testing before launch they talked about this and with the old forums being wiped I am unable to find the link anymore.

[Darth_Victus]

I am still waiting for this fix myself.

 

Hope it comes soon, because it is becoming increasingly frustrating to be removed or even denied a group for a flashpoint or Heroic 4 quest just because I am playing a Juggernaut and another class can tank or DPS better then I can.

[Anselm]

Yeah, I thought Bioware wasnt going to let this happen? the whole getting denied a group because of your AC...

 

looks like we are the red-headed step child gents.

[Kabaal]

Yeah when I was in testing before launch they talked about this and with the old forums being wiped I am unable to find the link anymore.

 

You can use google to find it by using the cached results of the wiped forum. I'd search but i wouldn't know what to search for as i never read the thread.

 

If on firefox do the search on google as normal then to the right of each result is an arrow tab, hover over it and a new link will appear on the right, click on "cached" under that link

[Anselm]

no luck...

 

couldnt find where they talked about it on google.

 

Hopefully the Devs remember though... I dont know how much more waiting I can do.

It sucks when people deny you.

[Lord_Sypris]

I have a 44 immortal Jugg and I have no problems getting groups or holding aggro etc. I think the the class has way to many abilities for small things (Sundering assault and assault...c'mon lets just use one)

 

I wouldn't say this class is the "Red Headed step child" or whatever it's called.

[Nyarlathotep]

I have a 44 immortal Jugg and I have no problems getting groups or holding aggro etc. I think the the class has way to many abilities for small things (Sundering assault and assault...c'mon lets just use one)

 

I wouldn't say this class is the "Red Headed step child" or whatever it's called.

 

I recieved so much grief, from fellow testers months ago now for daring to suggest that we were bloated and a small way they could cut down on it would be to let us have a talent to remove the CD from sunder assault.

[Fan_Atic]

I recieved so much grief, from fellow testers months ago now for daring to suggest that we were bloated and a small way they could cut down on it would be to let us have a talent to remove the CD from sunder assault.

 

This alone would be a HUGE QoL buff for us.

[Riff-Raff]

I wouldn't plan on Dev's focusing on fixing any class at the moment. The game is having Lag, Loading, and FPS issues at the moment which will be (hopefully for the games sake)their first priority.

[Heley]

I wouldn't plan on Dev's focusing on fixing any class at the moment. The game is having Lag, Loading, and FPS issues at the moment which will be (hopefully for the games sake)their first priority.

 

This is pretty much a moot point since the guys that fix FPS etc will be in a separate team and won't have the expertise to look into class balance, and visa versa. They're completely different aspects from a tech point of view.

 

Edit, just the same as how that team won't be looking into why the text on my post has mysteriously gone so small.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Heley

[Brene]

I have a 44 immortal Jugg and I have no problems getting groups or holding aggro etc. I think the the class has way to many abilities for small things (Sundering assault and assault...c'mon lets just use one)

 

I wouldn't say this class is the "Red Headed step child" or whatever it's called.

 

You weren't very sure of what this thread was about, were you?

[XenobiusLT]

As I see it now, there are several points which could use improvement in the current mechanics (mostly speaking about tanking):

 

1) Keeping the sunder stacks up.

Either decrease the cooldown on the Sundering Assault itself, decrease it on the Crushing Blow (even it it costs us some damage on it), or make the debuff last longer. It's a joke when a missed cooldown and/or monster dodging an attack can mean losing the stacks.

 

2) Blade Barricade duration needs a boost for the same reason - Retaliation *might* not proc and you lose the precious buff way too fast. Juggs are single-target tank types anyway for the most part, so surviving/avoiding those really big hits is our primary concern since we should get to MT a lot.

 

3) Endure Pain, even with Dark Blood doesn't last all that long. Maybe a couple seconds more?

 

4) Backhand could use a shorter CD as well. Four seconds of stun aren't all that needed in the Immortal tree anyway, since it's largely PvE-oriented and stun doesn't work on any bosses we tank, so we could do with a shorter stun but a shorter CD as well, and then we could rely more on it for reliable single target threat generation along with Crushing Blow.

[DiLune]

I would not expect any changes until 1.1 (when they are adding content as well.) Everything until then is likely all hotfix types of issues.

[Riff-Raff]

This is pretty much a moot point since the guys that fix FPS etc will be in a separate team and won't have the expertise to look into class balance, and visa versa. They're completely different aspects from a tech point of view.

 

Edit, just the same as how that team won't be looking into why the text on my post has mysteriously gone so small.

 

You can wish Heley, the point is at time of a major release the PM's, BA's, App Dev's, and QA/Test are all allocated to production support / hot fixes... Once the system stabalizes they will trickle that team back to development.

 

Content / class changes won't take place until the system stablizes which won't be for at least a few months...

Edited December 28, 2011 by Riff-Raff

[Baizak]

I am still waiting for this fix myself.

 

Hope it comes soon, because it is becoming increasingly frustrating to be removed or even denied a group for a flashpoint or Heroic 4 quest just because I am playing a Juggernaut and another class can tank or DPS better then I can.

 

I have never been denied a spot because I am a Jugg tank. I usually form my own groups though.

[Noth]

You can wish Heley, the point is at time of a major release the PM's, BA's, App Dev's, and QA/Test are all allocated to production support / hot fixes... Once the system stabalizes they will trickle that team back to development.

 

Content / class changes won't take place until the system stablizes which won't be for at least couple months...

 

So the fact that they are adding new content in about a month pretty much contradicts what you say there.

[DiLune]

So the fact that they are adding new content in about a month pretty much contradicts what you say there.

 

Yet supports it because class changes, if other MMO's are any guide, are most likely with a large content patch than on a smaller, mid-term patch (like 1.0.1)

 

I'm not holding my breath, but I am hopeful that they have been planning the changes for a while, as they have previously (during beta) said they'd like to make some warrior changes.

[Noth]

Yet supports it because class changes, if other MMO's are any guide, are most likely with a large content patch than on a smaller, mid-term patch (like 1.0.1)

 

I'm not holding my breath, but I am hopeful that they have been planning the changes for a while, as they have previously (during beta) said they'd like to make some warrior changes.

 

It doesn't He said that content will be months down the line and only come after everything settles. yet there is new content coming in January. That contradicts his statement.

[Lord_Itharius]

Does anybody else recall the Dev post where they said Jugs would be the next class to receive some tweaking to up their damage? That was about a week before launch and I was wondering if Jugs will ever get dps comparable to the other tanking AC's or if they already "fixed" it in a patch just before launch and I missed it.

 

My lvl 50 vengeance jugg seems to do significant damage, because I'm always pulling threat from the tank, even with guard.

 

However, combat logs aren't in the game yet, so I can't be sure if it's because of huge dps output or because of class aggro problems.

 

But I think many perceived problems with the Sith Warrior class are overstated because Juggernauts are very weak solo'ers at low to mid levels. By max level you'll be able to pretty easily solo most elites without survival cooldowns. Whereas most other classes that were stronger solo'ers at mid levels begin to turn into glass cannons or lose some relative dps.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Lord_Itharius

[Lord_Itharius]

1) Keeping the sunder stacks up.

Either decrease the cooldown on the Sundering Assault itself, decrease it on the Crushing Blow (even it it costs us some damage on it), or make the debuff last longer. It's a joke when a missed cooldown and/or monster dodging an attack can mean losing the stacks.

 

Sundering assault has a 4.5 second cooldown, and the sunder lasts 15 seconds. You use sundering assault whenever it's off cooldown because it is a juggernaut's primary rage builder, for all specs. So I don't see the problem here.

 

Decreasing the cooldown on sundering assault would screw up all the specs' rotations.

[Anselm]

Well Im sure everything will eventually be addressed, we will just have to wait and see.

 

Maybe we can get a devs attention in this thread and see what they have planned.

[Lord_Itharius]

Well Im sure everything will eventually be addressed, we will just have to wait and see.

 

Maybe we can get a devs attention in this thread and see what they have planned.

 

I'm not sure exactly what needs to be addressed about max-level juggs. Maybe immortals should have a little extra aoe threat, and vengeance juggs should generate less threat, but otherwise the class seems fine. It's lower level balance that needs work. It takes too much effort to solo lower level content, especially elites.

[Noth]

I'm not sure exactly what needs to be addressed about max-level juggs. Maybe immortals should have a little extra aoe threat, and vengeance juggs should generate less threat, but otherwise the class seems fine. It's lower level balance that needs work. It takes too much effort to solo lower level content, especially elites.

 

If a tank is losing threat to a vengeance jugg they'll lose it faster to a well played OP, Marauder, Sniper, Sorc, merc as they all hit harder than a vengeance jugg just as often and even more often. They also get better tools to survive pulling aggro.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Noth

[DiLune]

It doesn't He said that content will be months down the line and only come after everything settles. yet there is new content coming in January. That contradicts his statement.

 

But the linking of class changes to content changes should give people who thought you might see class changes in a 1.0.1 patch a clue that you won't get class changes except on the major patch releases.

 

I agree that its silly to think the entire team is on bug fixes. That's the surest way to MMO failure because it will constantly put you months behind on new content/class development.