RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Aowin]

No, Galactic Command wasn't designed to make gear more accessible or to address any issues with gearing in any previous version. BW told EA shareholders they had a system that would keep subs subbed longer and playing and get more subs. GC and locking F2P and preferred out of endgame is that system. If that was working as intended there would not have been two streams and a survey within 2 weeks of launch. Those streams and the survey tell you they saw an immediate effect on subs, contrary to what they had told EA to expect. So, keep telling yourself all is grand and it's doing what it's supposed to, but you're wrong and your argument is based on false assumptions. All you have to do is read the EA quarterly info and look at the product launched and you can connect the dots. Give it a try.

 

Speculation and conspiracy theories are in no way constructive nor do they assist BioWare in perfecting what is a completely legitimate system.

 

You keep making broad and vague statements about "EA quarterly info." Feel free to link it and provide evidence of the particular statements that were made by EA executives to the Board of Directors. Of course, the Executive Board of EA is not BioWare and they are merely paraphrasing what the studio is working on and some ideas for profit growth.

[Tsillah]

We can speculate why BioWare decided to change their plans with KOTET to be different from KOTFE. Ultimately, it's nothing more than speculation. I have a hard time believing raiders were the major catalyst for the change in tactics, considering BioWare hasn't been catering to that demographic for over two years. Without all the facts and the metrics has at its disposal, it's difficult to understand fully what those financial reports mean and what BioWare is doing to effectively mend them.

I agree it's speculation. The issue I've been having with you is that you act like you're not speculating as if you know their minds. I've said various times we cannot know their minds but you insist that you do. That just made you look quite unreasonable. So I'm glad you are able to say this now, because it is all speculation and therefore it's a matter of opinion what we feel is more reasonable of an explanation. Now I don't know if it's just raiders that are a catalyst here. I don't believe so either. But group content, things to do outside of the story are important for an MMO. It doesn't have to be raides in my opinion but the existing things are not updated regularly and that's problematic. For example, if a new stronghold had come out, I'd be playing still because I enjoy that sort of thing. I would've ignore the gearing issues by focusing on that rather than gearing until the gearing improved. That's why the expansion fails for me as an expansion because there is a lot of content that people play that has to wait years to get updates.

 

"Content" is a broad and vague term. SWTOR, like every other studio, has to pick and choose what it invests money in. One of the major investments for KOTET was the overhaul of gear progression. It wasn't cheap and I guarantee you it took a lot of time and resources. The inclusion of repeatable chapters also likely required a decent amount of investment and resources.

I agree. Content, as any concept, is open to interpretation. We all have a different idea of what that meanst. I made a post somewhere comparing the last 3 expansions. The main difference between the release of KotfE and KotET is the lack of any explorable planets. Iokath and Nathema are really cool locations but are story only. I find that a shame. But it's still a step down from KotFE in the sense that there is no explorable planet. In KotFE we have Zakuul with 2 explorable areas (city and swamp) and Odessen as a new hub that can be revisited. One thing that is important for expansions though is to also add some new places people can go to. Things like new explorable planets or even new areas on existing planets with some things we haven't visually seen before yet. The KotET story does that but its value is limited by not adding them as explorable areas.

 

Now I also agree that the story lines probably took a bigger investment over the SoR one. Of course SoR had new full fledged FPs and Operations as well as 2 explorable planets on release and I'm not sure if what they did differently with story in KotFE and KotET was a good trade off. In the end a single story you will only repeat so many times and then it's back to what else is there to do....and that's where the last two expansions brought very little new content to refresh the game. I thinkt he biggest letdown of SoR was a poor reward system for FPs making them less interesting for people to play.

 

As far as actual activities, I wouldn't say we had any less than KOTFE had at its launch. KOTFE had nine chapters, star fortresses (which are essentially uprisings), and grinding influence with the various alliance officers. New PvP maps, TEC, and other content wasn't added until many months after the initial launch. If anything, KOTET, with more uprisings on the way, will have much more content than KOTFE.

As above, KotET brought no explorable planets. That doesn't seem like a huge difference but considering how little content either explansion offered outside of the story it's a rather significant difference.

 

We can talk about 3.0 gearing. It's still bad. Acquiring gear in PvP was still too easy. For raiding, if you weren't part of a raid group it was difficult to even have access to better gear. The whole point of 4.0 was to make gear more accessible than ever before. In some regards it worked, but in many other regards it failed horribly. Galactic Command was meant to tackle the shortcomings of 3.0 and 4.0 at a completely different angle. BioWare wished to accomplish this by removing gear out of completing certain content. Due to the nature of RNG, that cause some frustration and BioWare is looking for ways to better refine the system.

Well, this is of course a matter of opinion. I do not believe that gearing in PvP should be difficult because gear differences add a PvE element to PvP. For me, PvP is about player skill. Gear differences dilute that. That's my opinion on that.

 

The other difference of opinion I have is that I do not agree that 3.0 was too hard for raiding. Also take into account that it's 4.0 that enabled gearing alts and it needed to since the lack of new meaningful group content needed an alternative and that became gearing alts and playing different roles in endgame content, which I for one quite enjoyed doing.

 

Whatever GC is attempting to do (and here it's again back to speculation what that would be), it clearly makes no sense to replace one frustration with another. For me the speed at which they are making changes is telling, for you perhaps not. From a system philosophy point of view (even though some of us do not think 5.1 will go far enough) the changes they are proposing are actually huge, because even though they're still tying it into GC, it is a step halfway back to the previous gearing system. The issue is also not the nature of RNG but the application thereof.

 

I honestly believe that BWA are trying to do their best, but in trying to kill as many birds with one stone as possible, they actually created a situation that is less desireable than 4.0 or 3.0 were. All systems were flawed to some degree. It's my opinion this is the most flawed of all and has more downsides than upsides. With that I repeat that I do not believe that SWTOR will crash and die, because I'm sure there's enough of a fanbase to weather the time it will take to get to a better situation again, but I do think that looking at the overall picture it's not an improvement for the game. And so I am happy to see that 5.1 is actually such a huge change. Now after that change is brought in, then it will become a matter of tweaking. I think the changes are the right direction in the context of GC, whether they numbers will be satisfactory (as in drop chances from bosses and cost in command tokens to exchange unassembled pieces), that's where the biggest question for me lies when it comes to 5.1

 

If the numbers are encouraging I will resub and try it. If they are still disappointing I won't. But perhaps with some later tweaks it will still work out at a later date. My reality is that regardless of what my reason are or aren't, I just don't enjoy playing in the current system. That's the only thing that matters to me regarding whether I'm subbed and playing or not.

[blackphantome]

I agree it's speculation. The issue I've been having with you is that you act like you're not speculating as if you know their minds. I've said various times we cannot know their minds but you insist that you do. That just made you look quite unreasonable. So I'm glad you are able to say this now, because it is all speculation and therefore it's a matter of opinion what we feel is more reasonable of an explanation. Now I don't know if it's just raiders that are a catalyst here. I don't believe so either. But group content, things to do outside of the story are important for an MMO. It doesn't have to be raides in my opinion but the existing things are not updated regularly and that's problematic. For example, if a new stronghold had come out, I'd be playing still because I enjoy that sort of thing. I would've ignore the gearing issues by focusing on that rather than gearing until the gearing improved. That's why the expansion fails for me as an expansion because there is a lot of content that people play that has to wait years to get updates.

 

 

I agree. Content, as any concept, is open to interpretation. We all have a different idea of what that meanst. I made a post somewhere comparing the last 3 expansions. The main difference between the release of KotfE and KotET is the lack of any explorable planets. Iokath and Nathema are really cool locations but are story only. I find that a shame. But it's still a step down from KotFE in the sense that there is no explorable planet. In KotFE we have Zakuul with 2 explorable areas (city and swamp) and Odessen as a new hub that can be revisited. One thing that is important for expansions though is to also add some new places people can go to. Things like new explorable planets or even new areas on existing planets with some things we haven't visually seen before yet. The KotET story does that but its value is limited by not adding them as explorable areas.

 

Now I also agree that the story lines probably took a bigger investment over the SoR one. Of course SoR had new full fledged FPs and Operations as well as 2 explorable planets on release and I'm not sure if what they did differently with story in KotFE and KotET was a good trade off. In the end a single story you will only repeat so many times and then it's back to what else is there to do....and that's where the last two expansions brought very little new content to refresh the game. I thinkt he biggest letdown of SoR was a poor reward system for FPs making them less interesting for people to play.

 

 

As above, KotET brought no explorable planets. That doesn't seem like a huge difference but considering how little content either explansion offered outside of the story it's a rather significant difference.

 

 

Well, this is of course a matter of opinion. I do not believe that gearing in PvP should be difficult because gear differences add a PvE element to PvP. For me, PvP is about player skill. Gear differences dilute that. That's my opinion on that.

 

The other difference of opinion I have is that I do not agree that 3.0 was too hard for raiding. Also take into account that it's 4.0 that enabled gearing alts and it needed to since the lack of new meaningful group content needed an alternative and that became gearing alts and playing different roles in endgame content, which I for one quite enjoyed doing.

 

Whatever GC is attempting to do (and here it's again back to speculation what that would be), it clearly makes no sense to replace one frustration with another. For me the speed at which they are making changes is telling, for you perhaps not. From a system philosophy point of view (even though some of us do not think 5.1 will go far enough) the changes they are proposing are actually huge, because even though they're still tying it into GC, it is a step halfway back to the previous gearing system. The issue is also not the nature of RNG but the application thereof.

 

I honestly believe that BWA are trying to do their best, but in trying to kill as many birds with one stone as possible, they actually created a situation that is less desireable than 4.0 or 3.0 were. All systems were flawed to some degree. It's my opinion this is the most flawed of all and has more downsides than upsides. With that I repeat that I do not believe that SWTOR will crash and die, because I'm sure there's enough of a fanbase to weather the time it will take to get to a better situation again, but I do think that looking at the overall picture it's not an improvement for the game. And so I am happy to see that 5.1 is actually such a huge change. Now after that change is brought in, then it will become a matter of tweaking. I think the changes are the right direction in the context of GC, whether they numbers will be satisfactory (as in drop chances from bosses and cost in command tokens to exchange unassembled pieces), that's where the biggest question for me lies when it comes to 5.1

 

If the numbers are encouraging I will resub and try it. If they are still disappointing I won't. But perhaps with some later tweaks it will still work out at a later date. My reality is that regardless of what my reason are or aren't, I just don't enjoy playing in the current system. That's the only thing that matters to me regarding whether I'm subbed and playing or not.

 

Maybe "RNG is perfect for SWTOR" because they lost players like you, players like me or other players that wanted new group content or a non-RNG endgame? It is really hard to lose me as a custumer because I loved this game but they did it. Maybe it was all part of a plan. Maybe they are happy now. Maybe. Mayb. May. Ma. M. . ....

[blackphantome]

4.0 was meant to resolve the shortcomings of 3.0. GC is meant to resolve the shortcomings of 4.0. You do not go backwards. You go forward. 3.0 still largely had many of the issues 4.0 had with PvP gear being far too easy to access (that's been an issue since before 2.0) and PvE gear being distributed in a non-friendly way for newcomers.

 

I'm asking only because of interest (I never had PvP gear). But why was it too easy and why was it an problem?

On the one hand, you had the opportunity to play many classes or the classes you like and you were able to equip them fast, so you had no problem playing RBG with many characters. For me, as someone who is standing in the outside in connection to PvP, this gave the players liberty and the freedom to choose, - and: because you mentioned the non-friendly way for newcomers. In my opinion, gearing fast - let it be PvP or PvE - is a friendly way for newcomers.

 

I can't read all the thoughts of new players but I know because of experience that many newcomers hate this system.

After 4.0, I had to rebuild my guild because there was no content.

After 5.0, I have to rebuild my guild because veterans AND newcomers hate this system. We invited some new players who started with the end of 4.0 or with the launch of 5.0 and talked to them on the TS. We had fun. For a few days/weeks. Now they are gone with the reason: "I hate RNG".

 

My complete guild stopped working because of RNG.

 

But what I want to mention is that I think that the pre-5.0 system was much more friendly to new comers. They leveled (too?) fast but they reached the endgame. With not much effort or with the help of the guild (we made OP runs with giving all the loot to one character) they were equipped fast.

 

RNG does not allow this to veterans nor to newcomers.

[Nardax]

I'm asking only because of interest (I never had PvP gear). But why was it too easy and why was it an problem?

On the one hand, you had the opportunity to play many classes or the classes you like and you were able to equip them fast, so you had no problem playing RBG with many characters. For me, as someone who is standing in the outside in connection to PvP, this gave the players liberty and the freedom to choose, - and: because you mentioned the non-friendly way for newcomers. In my opinion, gearing fast - let it be PvP or PvE - is a friendly way for newcomers.

 

I can't read all the thoughts of new players but I know because of experience that many newcomers hate this system.

After 4.0, I had to rebuild my guild because there was no content.

After 5.0, I have to rebuild my guild because veterans AND newcomers hate this system. We invited some new players who started with the end of 4.0 or with the launch of 5.0 and talked to them on the TS. We had fun. For a few days/weeks. Now they are gone with the reason: "I hate RNG".

 

My complete guild stopped working because of RNG.

 

But what I want to mention is that I think that the pre-5.0 system was much more friendly to new comers. They leveled (too?) fast but they reached the endgame. With not much effort or with the help of the guild (we made OP runs with giving all the loot to one character) they were equipped fast.

 

RNG does not allow this to veterans nor to newcomers.

 

Agreed.

[Aowin]

I'm asking only because of interest (I never had PvP gear). But why was it too easy and why was it an problem?

On the one hand, you had the opportunity to play many classes or the classes you like and you were able to equip them fast, so you had no problem playing RBG with many characters. For me, as someone who is standing in the outside in connection to PvP, this gave the players liberty and the freedom to choose, - and: because you mentioned the non-friendly way for newcomers. In my opinion, gearing fast - let it be PvP or PvE - is a friendly way for newcomers.

 

I can't read all the thoughts of new players but I know because of experience that many newcomers hate this system.

After 4.0, I had to rebuild my guild because there was no content.

After 5.0, I have to rebuild my guild because veterans AND newcomers hate this system. We invited some new players who started with the end of 4.0 or with the launch of 5.0 and talked to them on the TS. We had fun. For a few days/weeks. Now they are gone with the reason: "I hate RNG".

 

My complete guild stopped working because of RNG.

 

But what I want to mention is that I think that the pre-5.0 system was much more friendly to new comers. They leveled (too?) fast but they reached the endgame. With not much effort or with the help of the guild (we made OP runs with giving all the loot to one character) they were equipped fast.

 

RNG does not allow this to veterans nor to newcomers.

 

Originally, gear was gained through champion bags and battlemaster bags. With battlemaster bags, you had a 25% chance of getting a battlemaster commendation, of which you needed several for a piece of gear. Unfortunately, you could only get a battlemaster bag by completing the weeklies. This, of course, was far too detrimental as players had a 75% chance of getting nothing every week.

 

BioWare went the polar opposite direction and created warzone commendations and having to trade in lower tier gear for higher tier gear. This was an issue for the simple fact it made gearing incredibly rapid for PvP. Especially when the warzone cap was increased to 200,000 comms, players were able to gear themselves in top tier PvP gear the moment they hit the new level cap. All they had to do was save up the wz comms until the next expansion.

 

The ultimate issue for SWTOR is that gear was becoming a detriment to the experience. BioWare is trying to rectify that issue by making it more accessible but also implementing a time sink. It's leading to mixed results from the perspective of some, so BioWare is trying to tweak where they can.

 

While I can understand your plight, not all newcomers were fortunate enough to have a guild or a group that would help them through this endgame content. BioWare, as always, is trying to make SWTOR more accessible and more appealing to new players. I understand how some veterans feel, but I do not believe the same feelings can be attributed to newcomers.

[curulz]

Of course players are acquiring gear as BioWare intended. They had Galactic Command tested internally and on PTS for months. BioWare knew exactly how gear was going to be distributed and how the system turned out is going according to plan. Again, using basic logic and reasoning in a controlled environment, the majority of players will be working within the intended target BioWare was prescribed..

 

You're still making assumptions. Of course players are acquiring gear thru GC as BW intended, that statement is factual. But you said that players are receiving gear at the rate BW intended. Implying that you know the rate in which BW intended and that players were in fact receiving gear at that rate. You have nothing to back up that part of your argument. You can dress it up as a logic and reasoning as much as you'd like, but you are still presenting your theory as factual. I cannot discuss PTS because of the NDA, but I will say that I also disagree with that part of your argument.

 

Casuals couldn't raid because they didn't have the groups and oftentimes didn't have the alleged "gear either." As I said before, gear is secondary. The real issue is that casuals generally have never raided at all, having little to no knowledge about boss mechanics. What Galactic Command does is it's removing gear from being gated behind this content that many have never experienced. Operations, in general, are also just easier to do on lower difficulties, leading to a higher population trying the content. If you want to raid now, you can obtain decent gear through GC and the content is easier and should be easier to understand..

 

If skill is the most important aspect in raiding, then GC does nothing to address the most important aspect in casuals being able to raid. GC only addresses a potential lack of gear, so its not opening up content that was previously restricted to causals. Not to say that I believe that raiding was in anyway restricted pre-5.0. Comm gear and crafted gear was just as easy if not easier to obtain in 4.0, so I do not believe RNG has done anything to make that easier to obtain. I believe if someone didn't raid, it was because they choose not to.

 

Galactic Command is helping many who never ran operations or participated in PvP. That cannot be disputed. I am merely stating a fact that many are actually benefiting from this change. That has little to suggest I'm speaking for the majority. What I do want to stress is why this system is good and try to explain to those who don't like it the benefits of GC.

 

Oh it certainly can be disputed. You're not stating a fact, you're stating your theory that many are benefiting from the change. You have no evidence that this is actually happening. I cannot prove that it is not happening. But not being able to prove one, does not mean the other is true. Therein lies the dispute.

 

We're just going in circles once again though. You believe your theories to be factual, therefore you're unwilling to see any merit in other views. Until you can at least acknowledge that yours are actually opinions and theories, we're just spinning our wheels.

[giorob]

Casuals couldn't raid because they didn't have the groups and oftentimes didn't have the alleged "gear either." As I said before, gear is secondary. The real issue is that casuals generally have never raided at all, having little to no knowledge about boss mechanics. What Galactic Command does is it's removing gear from being gated behind this content that many have never experienced. Operations, in general, are also just easier to do on lower difficulties, leading to a higher population trying the content. If you want to raid now, you can obtain decent gear through GC and the content is easier and should be easier to understand.

 

Galactic Command is helping many who never ran operations or participated in PvP. That cannot be disputed. I am merely stating a fact that many are actually benefiting from this change. That has little to suggest I'm speaking for the majority. What I do want to stress is why this system is good and try to explain to those who don't like it the benefits of GC.

 

I first started playing the game in late april, I actually consider myself a less then perfect player. Heck, I plain suck at pvp. But I managed to clear my first op in June. I did so in 208 crystal gear on my deception assasin. It was Kragga's Palace Story mode I believe. While I know that Op is considered easy, it was still tough. But you know what? A 'casual' like me was able to clear it, on an rp server. I listened to instructions, and tried my best. This experiance, along with the few ops I have run or attempted to run in PUGs, have shown me that casuals like me can indeed partake in raids, all they have to do is listen and actually try :eek:.

 

In 4.0 getting 208 crystal gear was so easy(well mainhands were tough to get). I could gear up an alt and if I so wanted could get into story mode ops quite easily. But 5.0 has personally made it harder to get new alts geared to even do ops. I personally have not run an op in 5.0(too busy with RP ) The new gearing system actually hurts casuals who don't have unlimited time to grind conten 24/7 for a chance at getting good gear. I can tell you that if this new gearing system had been implemented when I first started playing, I would have just played the story and noped out of the rest of the content. Heck the main reason I keep playing is to RP with my bros and to get occasioanly pwnd in pvp . In my lowly opinion 5.0 gearing doesn't include anyone. All it does is suck the fun out of the game.

[Eli_Porter]

Here's my story then, as a new player.

 

I was playing my alt in 204 PvP set gear in an SM op. We reached the final boss and ran into issues on the enrage timer. I was singled out for having "pvp gear" and slowing down the team. I probably wasn't the cause, and I know this is just one person, but some of the group went along with it. "yeah, you should get better gear". Guess what, that's what I'm here for. I'm not on a server that runs ops constantly, and I'm in a casual RP guild, but I do care about gear.

 

So yeah, I would like to first go into ops with decent gear, so situations like that wouldn't happen. 5.0 lets me get high tier gear (sets aside) with far greater ease, and 5.1 will let me get the set gear I need as well.

[Kawiki]

Here's my story then, as a new player.

 

I was playing my alt in 204 PvP set gear in an SM op. We reached the final boss and ran into issues on the enrage timer. I was singled out for having "pvp gear" and slowing down the team. I probably wasn't the cause, and I know this is just one person, but some of the group went along with it. "yeah, you should get better gear". Guess what, that's what I'm here for. I'm not on a server that runs ops constantly, and I'm in a casual RP guild, but I do care about gear.

 

So yeah, I would like to first go into ops with decent gear, so situations like that wouldn't happen. 5.0 lets me get high tier gear (sets aside) with far greater ease, and 5.1 will let me get the set gear I need as well.

 

I hope you plan on playing your alt a whole lot in 5.0 as it will takes hours upon hours to get an entry set or pay roughly 20mil for a 230 set or 5mil for a 228 set. The current system are hands to the throat for alts. It's a horrible system that you are trying to make sound appealing. It's not.

[Eli_Porter]

I already have my alt set up with 234/230 crafted/self-found gear, with two 230 set armorings (and four 204 set armorings). My alt is command rank 20 and my main is 100. Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[DarthEnrique]

My thoughts of all the RNG in this game from Cartel Packs to the Galatic Command and all the grinding: Yaaaawwwnnnn! Edited January 3, 2017 by DarthEnrique

[Sargrith]

Here's my story then, as a new player.

 

I was playing my alt in 204 PvP set gear in an SM op. We reached the final boss and ran into issues on the enrage timer. I was singled out for having "pvp gear" and slowing down the team. I probably wasn't the cause, and I know this is just one person, but some of the group went along with it. "yeah, you should get better gear". Guess what, that's what I'm here for. I'm not on a server that runs ops constantly, and I'm in a casual RP guild, but I do care about gear.

 

So yeah, I would like to first go into ops with decent gear, so situations like that wouldn't happen. 5.0 lets me get high tier gear (sets aside) with far greater ease, and 5.1 will let me get the set gear I need as well.

 

 

Sorry you found a stupid group. SM ops have bolster. We've had people in green level 50 junk not have a problem. 204 PVP gear has set bonuses you'd be perfectly fine in any sm op even now. More so now. 5.0 doesn't help you deal with stupid people any so it wont help you here either.

 

But I see this a lot, why do you care about gear if your in a causal RP player? Sure you might want to run ops but with bolster which existed in 4.0 you already could and it would have given you the gear eventually to run HM ops and beyond.

 

For PvP I really think gear needs to be unimportant. PvP should be a skill battle. If we want to make gear an issue in PvP do it in ranked. But the standard PvP should not be gear dependent. Just like SM ops shouldn't be and aren't. I like only carrying 2 sets of armor on my main now, having 4 was a pain.

 

The rng gearing is garbage. It doesn't reward good play or time put in to learn mechanics it rewards time in game. Also it randomly rewards meaning I could have 10 times your time in game and you could be better geared just because of luck.

 

Look at the guy who hit 300 command rank and notice he still was sporting some 230 piece. That means with 220 ranks he never got a better one. That's crazy bad, stupid bad.

 

Just because your story went poorly for you due to a poor op group doesn't mean anything about 4.0 or 5.0 gearing. What happened wasn't a gear issue but a player one. 5.0 and beyond wont help with that at all. All 5.0 does is break the game and steal fun from players.

[Eli_Porter]

But I see this a lot, why do you care about gear if your in a causal RP player? Sure you might want to run ops but with bolster which existed in 4.0 you already could and it would have given you the gear eventually to run HM ops and beyond.

 

Gear is part of the game to me just like RP is part of the game. I enjoy both. I want to progress my character's gear, and I could only do it through operations in 4.0. That means that I was forced into content I often didn't have time to do, because waiting for groups to form took a while and sometimes we didn't even finish. Sometimes I didn't feel like doing Operations either. In 5.1 it'll still be the most efficient method, but it won't be the only one.

 

The rng gearing is garbage. It doesn't reward good play or time put in to learn mechanics it rewards time in game. Also it randomly rewards meaning I could have 10 times your time in game and you could be better geared just because of luck.

 

If you don't know how to play or how to gear, 242 gear isn't gonna help you much either.

 

Look at the guy who hit 300 command rank and notice he still was sporting some 230 piece. That means with 220 ranks he never got a better one. That's crazy bad, stupid bad.

 

If you look at the video again you'd see that the 230 piece was a 7th set piece. He could have easily fit a 240 generic armoring in there instead.

 

Just because your story went poorly for you due to a poor op group doesn't mean anything about 4.0 or 5.0 gearing. What happened wasn't a gear issue but a player one. 5.0 and beyond wont help with that at all. All 5.0 does is break the game and steal fun from players.

 

It was to illustrate that gear being gated behind operations wasn't a fun experience for me as a new player. I want to progress my character's gear, but Operations aren't the only content I want to run whether it be due to time constraints, reliance on teammates (who can be stupid, as you said), or straight interest in other content (I enjoy GSF/PvP/FP's/Up's).

Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Eli_Porter]

Also, you could then ask, why RNG? They could have given set gear for data crystals right?

 

RNG gearing serves these purposes:

 

1. It hooks the new player, giving him a deluge of usable loot from crates when he first starts getting them.

 

2. As time goes on, the usable loot becomes more scarce, encouraging the player to play on alts (thus diversifying his playing experience) to get usable crates again. And in SWTOR's case they can choose to focus on their main to reach the next tier as well.

 

3. The better your gear the tougher it becomes to complete it. This keeps the character from reaching perfect gear, encouraging the player to still revisit it from time to time.

 

This is the standard gearing process for Action RPG's, and it works well.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Kawiki]

Also, you could then ask, why RNG? They could have given set gear for data crystals right?

 

RNG gearing serves these purposes:

 

1. It hooks the new player, giving him a deluge of usable loot from crates when he first starts getting them.

 

2. As time goes on, the usable loot becomes more scarce, encouraging the player to play on alts (thus diversifying his playing experience) to get usable crates again. And in SWTOR's case they can choose to focus on their main to reach the next tier as well.

 

3. The better your gear the tougher it becomes to complete it. This keeps the character from reaching perfect gear, encouraging the player to still revisit it from time to time.

 

This is the standard gearing process for Action RPG's, and it works well.

 

You are wrong. This kind of gear grind discourages players from even staring. Once they realize it is 300-500 (or more) hundred hour process (for one character) to get the best gear they don't even bother. It's a system that kills casual play and any idea of playing multiple characters for people that even remotely care about gear.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Kawiki

[Eli_Porter]

You are wrong. This kind of gear grind discourages players from even staring. Once they realize it is 300-500 (or more) hundred hour process (for one character) to get the best gear they don't even bother. It's a system that kills casual play and any idea of playing multiple characters for people that even remotely care about gear.

 

The RNG system works as long as content isn't too gated by gear progression, and seeing as people have already done NiM Operations in a mix of T1+T2+T3 gear, it isn't.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[curulz]

It was to illustrate that gear being gated behind operations wasn't a fun experience for me as a new player. I want to progress my character's gear, but Operations aren't the only content I want to run whether it be due to time constraints, reliance on teammates (who can be stupid, as you said), or straight interest in other content (I enjoy GSF/PvP/FP's/Up's).

 

I understand where you're coming from, and obviously your experience is your experience. But one could obtain 216/220 gear (non itemized) thru vendors, and even 216/220 optimized gear from GTN/crafters if they choose to. So one could get "good gear" w/o doing operations. So there were other options. The removal of the comm gear vendors had a bigger negative impact to the more casual player than GC/RNG had a positive impact in my opinion. Crafting is still applicable in 5.0, but two of the more guaranteed and measureable aspects of PVE gear attainment were removed.

[Kawiki]

The RNG system works as long as content isn't too gated by gear progression, and seeing as people have already done NiM Operations in a mix of T1+T2+T3 gear, it isn't.

 

I think this is the problem or your lack of understanding. People don't care if it "can be done" they want the best gear. Period. It's what you folks don't understand. For PvPers it looks like the better the gear the better the performance even if it is marginal people will want it.

 

You and OP are well meaning but I don't think you understand the motivations of the average player.

[Eli_Porter]

I understand where you're coming from, and obviously your experience is your experience. But one could obtain 216/220 gear (non itemized) thru vendors, and even 216/220 optimized gear from GTN/crafters if they choose to. So one could get "good gear" w/o doing operations. So there were other options. The removal of the comm gear vendors had a bigger negative impact to the more casual player than GC/RNG had a positive impact in my opinion. Crafting is still applicable in 5.0, but two of the more guaranteed and measureable aspects of PVE gear attainment were removed.

 

It was much more difficult to get 216/220 gear in 4.7 than it is to get 230/234 gear in 5.0. The freedom of choice on what gear you wanted from vendors/gtn came with a price, and that price was slower progression.

 

And if you wanted 216+ set gear (which was useful outside of ops, for example HM FP's) you still had to do ops.

[Eli_Porter]

I think this is the problem or your lack of understanding. People don't care if it "can be done" they want the best gear. Period. It's what you folks don't understand. For PvPers it looks like the better the gear the better the performance even if it is marginal people will want it.

 

You and OP are well meaning but I don't think you understand the motivations of the average player.

 

I think we can agree to disagree about the average players' motivations, since neither of us have metrics to back our arguments.

 

I would urge you to give 5.1 a try, since I truly believe it will address the issues.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[PlasmaJohn]

RNG gearing serves these purposes:

 

1. It hooks the new player, giving him a deluge of usable loot from crates when he first starts getting them.

Usable? Well I guess bigger numbers give a deceptively warm fuzzy. Bolster makes the 230 chase pointless outside of the set bonuses. If you don't live in the game and focus on optimal CXP returns the grind to 91 (and 181) is extremely demoralizing.

 

This is the standard gearing process for Action RPG's, and it works well.

The difference is that ARPG's shower you with enough gear to be statistically relevant. You don't care about the trash because you'll be getting a steady stream of upgrades. After some fantastic early luck I'm closing in on 30 boxes with nothing to show for it. I'm really starting to dread playing my main because of it.

 

GC's mortal sin is that they combined an insane grind with RNG. Insane grinds need that light at the end of the tunnel. The only light coming from RNGrind is a high speed freight train.

[Eli_Porter]

Usable? Well I guess bigger numbers give a deceptively warm fuzzy. Bolster makes the 230 chase pointless outside of the set bonuses. If you don't live in the game and focus on optimal CXP returns the grind to 91 (and 181) is extremely demoralizing.

 

Bolster doesn't help you in every content, and new players aren't aware of it. The grind isn't the focus, the rate of upgrades is.

 

The difference is that ARPG's shower you with enough gear to be statistically relevant. You don't care about the trash because you'll be getting a steady stream of upgrades. After some fantastic early luck I'm closing in on 30 boxes with nothing to show for it. I'm really starting to dread playing my main because of it.

 

GC's mortal sin is that they combined an insane grind with RNG. Insane grinds need that light at the end of the tunnel. The only light coming from RNGrind is a high speed freight train.

 

I suggest you give 5.1 the benefit of the doubt because it addresses these exact concerns. Also, reaching T2/T3 is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Eli_Porter

[Tsetso]

I suggest you give 5.1 the benefit of the doubt because it addresses these exact concerns.

 

No, it doesn't. The only thing 5.1 will achieve is to increase the number of players in WZs who doesn't care about PVP but want the gear.

[Quraswren]

I would urge you to give 5.1 a try, since I truly believe it will address the issues.

 

How iwll 5.1 really address the issue of RNG and how bad that is with more RNG?

 

RNG unassembled gear drops from all bosses except the last still means there is a large chance making runs that get nothing except from the last boss. That doesn't really fix the RNG issue at all. It's half arse step in the right direction but not a good one.

 

The high percentages in drop rates bw mentioned in their post was a false hope and they made sure to tell you real numbers would be different. You can expect them to be similar to RNG crate drops with is very slim. Even if the percentages increase a little from first boss to next to last, they will all be extremely low making sure you lose more than win. Again, you cannot fix the problem RNG crate has by adding in more RNG.

 

Combine that with the command tokens that is needed with unassembled pieces and it gets even worse because bw made sure to not tell you how many command tokens you need. You can once again expect that cost to be high. They want to make sure you at trapped in the GC grind of extremely old content so they tied it to GC and needing to grind out thise crates. Even making it reward command tokens for past levels completed isn't some amazing design when you don't know the cost per unassembled.

 

The only thing guaranteed as a reward for your time is from PVP and those unassembled pieces so expect people who dont care for PVP to be there screwing it up for those that like PVP.

 

5.1 isn't some amazing fix to RNG gearing nor is it really a wholehearted effort on bws part to address RNG gearing / GC and all the issues it has.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Quraswren