RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Tsillah]

declaration: meatbags can't fly.:D

 

Well dear Hichitsuki-hime....I fear it's time for me to sign out for tonight.

 

May we meet again in this cesspool of mankind aka the general forum!

[LordArtemis]

The lady doth protest too much, methinks. I would hardly think your initial reaction (http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=7958819&postcount=93) indicates poor handling from the beginning....

"Fantastic!!!! Best addition to the game since the Stronghold QoL change."

 

Context eartharioch....context.

 

The lady. You are a riot.

 

I also tend to wonder how my reaction effects or impacts how BIOWARE handled the situation with the CSM.

 

I am of the belief that it is likely the two are not connected....but perhaps you know something I do not?

 

I can't fault you for that -- I mean there you were, standing at the alter, radiant in white, Andrayah as Maid of Honor at your side, waiting for a patch that would never come.

 

Not sure what you mean by that, but I would be wearing a black suit, not a white dress....just so you know.

 

Oh, and good to see you eartharioch....my how I have missed our interesting conversations.....

Edited December 12, 2016 by LordArtemis

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Well dear Hichitsuki-hime....I fear it's time for me to sign out for tonight.

 

May we meet again in this cesspool of mankind aka the general forum!

 

well. going to bed here hehe. see u later =):D

[LordArtemis]

No, I had actually convinced him that the Jawa Junk drop rates were too high before the nerf...it was the loss of certs that broke him (and several others). But his day one reaction *was* unconditional love.

 

Fair enough. If you could share the relevance I am sure many folks would appreciate it....naturally.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Best. Thread. Ever. The CSM may have stopped printing money, but memories of its demise still print tears almost two years later.

 

I've found it to finally be profitable for me again. Cartel Cert drop rate depending but for 1000 tokens I've always managed to at least get 1 and selling back the rep trophies and the going value of Jawa Junk these days for gifts offsets the initial cost making that cartel cert quite profitable ( ~2 million on vendor decos ).

 

Of course there is a risk you might not get a certificate but the odds haven't come out so bad for that I've made a loss yet.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

No, I had actually convinced him that the Jawa Junk drop rates were too high before the nerf...it was the loss of certs that broke him (and several others). But his day one reaction *was* unconditional love.

 

That's the thing. Those Jawa Junk drop rates were rather economy ruining for anyone who was going through the crew skills system to get mats as designed and yet there were so many arguing it was "fine" solely because they were benefitting from it.

 

BWA fix it ( as they had to ) and you start getting all these ridiculous arguments pop up "bait and switch" etc. - the rage was palpable even though I didn't find one single person ( upon querying multiple times in the thread ) who actually made a loss on the machine. "I've only got 1000 purple Jawa Junk and 100 cartel certs you nerfed it! I'm so outraged!". There was one person who had stacks and stacks of the stuff and was still highly enraged.

 

I always think back to that time about some posters behaviour and how they now at times try and impart their supposed "posting values" ( that they seemed to forget back then ) on others.

[Aowin]

I'd urge all to stay on topic as we've been having an incredibly productive and fruitful discussion up until this point. I think everybody's opinion matters, but it's important to understand why BioWare has gone the direction it has and what that means for the game.

[JennyFlynn]

I'd urge all to stay on topic as we've been having an incredibly productive and fruitful discussion up until this point. I think everybody's opinion matters, but it's important to understand why BioWare has gone the direction it has and what that means for the game.

 

Yes, except, last I checked you weren't a spokesperson for BW. Despite your intentions, much of what you say is still just your opinion, your interpretation of. "I think everybody's opinion matters but.." sounds as "Your opinion matters but I know better so let me tell you how it is". That's not a fruitful or productive stance to take for open discussion. You may have decent intentions, I don't know, but much of this still comes across as you wanting to force your point of view on everyone else and tell them how it is, how they should feel about RNG and GC, rather than debating and discussing it which is often a matter of give and take.

[RiVaN_]

Yes, except, last I checked you weren't a spokesperson for BW. Despite your intentions, much of what you say is still just your opinion, your interpretation of. "I think everybody's opinion matters but.." sounds as "Your opinion matters but I know better so let me tell you how it is". That's not a fruitful or productive stance to take for open discussion. You may have decent intentions, I don't know, but much of this still comes across as you wanting to force your point of view on everyone else and tell them how it is, how they should feel about RNG and GC, rather than debating and discussing it which is often a matter of give and take.

 

You hit the nail on the head with this one.

"Everyone's opinion matters, unless it is different than mine. In that case I will tell you where and why you are wrong."

[eartharioch]

The lady. You are a riot.

It's a famous quote, not me speculating about your real-life gender.

 

but perhaps you know something I do not?

I'll give you that in general, Hoaratio, but I'm not trying to imply any inside knowledge -- everything I ever posted about the CSM was based upon math, logic, and non-mmo programming experience (coupled with a healthy dose of reality )

 

Not sure what you mean by that, but I would be wearing a black suit, not a white dress....just so you know.

Just a generic reference to being stood up on the altar, I hope you can accept the literary license (matching up with the previous quote and Andrayah's name being feminine made me choose representing you as a jilted bride as opposed to the victim of a runaway bride). In any case, I was expressing sympathy with your situation -- unlike me, you really had confidence that BW was going to handle it with dignity instead of skipping town.

 

Oh, and good to see you eartharioch....my how I have missed our interesting conversations.....

Same here, although it won't be for much longer on my part. If BW can shore up the ops/pvp gearing issues and actually announce something like a new op in January, I might be back in time to post my N-Day celebration. In fact, I actually had a rough draft of some talking points you might wish to consider... http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9160160&postcount=15

 

Too bad the original voice actor isn't around.

Edited December 13, 2016 by eartharioch

[Aowin]

Yes, except, last I checked you weren't a spokesperson for BW. Despite your intentions, much of what you say is still just your opinion, your interpretation of. "I think everybody's opinion matters but.." sounds as "Your opinion matters but I know better so let me tell you how it is". That's not a fruitful or productive stance to take for open discussion. You may have decent intentions, I don't know, but much of this still comes across as you wanting to force your point of view on everyone else and tell them how it is, how they should feel about RNG and GC, rather than debating and discussing it which is often a matter of give and take.

 

It's your prerogative to assume the intention of others and fabricate fantasies if you'd like. I find that incredibly destructive and undermining what we all want: to make SWTOR the best game it can be. We don't have to agree on everything. That's perfectly fine. However, I encourage you to at least try and respect other opinions, even if you do not like what they have to say.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Aowin

[eartharioch]

I always think back to that time about some posters behaviour and how they now at times try and impart their supposed "posting values" ( that they seemed to forget back then ) on others.

 

There is a certain poster who keeps talking about how "over" the issue s/he is Salty tears are salty.

 

(And it's not Artemis, he's the poster I referred to who actually went from initial joy at the purple drop rates to realize that they were to high even before the nerf).

[eartharioch]

Fair enough. If you could share the relevance I am sure many folks would appreciate it....naturally.

 

I was... wait for it... actually defending you against somebody who said you were against *any* nerf to the CSM:

 

>>>Quote: Originally Posted by Jamtas

>>>To be fair, that is LA's reaction prior to any nerf happening on the CSM

 

My point was that you had already conceded that the purple jawa stuff was dropping too much (despite having initially been happy) and that it was the [unannounced, but obvious IMO] nerfing of the certs that pushed you, and several others over the edge.

Edited December 13, 2016 by eartharioch

[OfficerDonNZ]

It's your prerogative to assume the intention of others and fabricate fantasies if you'd like. I find that incredibly destructive and undermining what we all want: to make SWTOR the best game it can be. We don't have to agree on everything. That's perfectly fine. However, I encourage you to at least try and respect other opinions, even if you do not like what they have to say.

 

But that's kind of her point. YOU don't respect others opinions. You just hammer away with your own little agenda with blinkers on come hell or high water. I've been reading this thread on and off and I admit the game mechanics never bothered me that much as I know why I play the game and get what I want out of it. End game gear has never been nor I suspect never will be a real concern for me.

[JennyFlynn]

It's your prerogative to assume the intention of others and fabricate fantasies if you'd like. I find that incredibly destructive and undermining what we all want: to make SWTOR the best game it can be. We don't have to agree on everything. That's perfect fine. However, I encourage you to at least try and respect other opinions, even if you do not like what they have to say.

 

I'm not assuming your intentions at all. I even said "You may have decent intentions, I don't know", as in I don't actually know what your intentions are so I'm not assuming them either.

 

The thought of me assuming your intentions, and in your eyes 'fabricating fantasies' is destructive and undermining to what we all want? Destructive and undermining to wanting to make SWTOR the best game it can be? High horses much? What I think or 'assume' about your intentions and opinions has ZERO to do with wanting, or not wanting, the best for the game. I want SWTOR to be the best game it can be too but that doesn't mean I have to agree with your approach to this situation.

 

Which is the main issue I take with this thread. No, I do not fully agree with your view and opinions in the OP however you're fully entitled to it. What I don't agree with is your approach, the manner in which you seemingly try to shove your POV down everyone else's throat, arguing anyone who disagrees at every turn and it appears as though you'll be doing so until every single person out there sees things your way because you seem to believe your view on the subject is the only one to be had.

 

Again, I'm not assuming a thing nor am I arguing your opinion. I'm arguing the manner in which you're presenting it and telling you how your behavior is perceived by me. I look at your posts and I see arrogance, superiority and an unwillingness or inability to place yourself in the shoes of those who oppose your view therefor destroying the notion of trying to have a discussion, which is what you claim to want.

[eartharioch]

It's your prerogative to assume the intention of others and fabricate fantasies if you'd like. I find that incredibly destructive and undermining what we all want: to make SWTOR the best game it can be.

 

Did you really just denigrate somebody for assuming others' intentions while simultaneously assuming others' intentions? Why yes, yes you did.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I'd urge all to stay on topic as we've been having an incredibly productive and fruitful discussion up until this point. I think everybody's opinion matters, but it's important to understand why BioWare has gone the direction it has and what that means for the game.

 

If this sort of post doesn't prove he's trolling I don't know what else will.

[Aowin]

But that's kind of her point. YOU don't respect others opinions. You just hammer away with your own little agenda with blinkers on come hell or high water. I've been reading this thread on and off and I admit the game mechanics never bothered me that much as I know why I play the game and get what I want out of it. End game gear has never been nor I suspect never will be a real concern for me.

 

What you, and others, don't seem to realize is that is your opinion of me. I'm more than happy to hear other view points and consider their merits. That doesn't mean I still won't defend my own view point and present its various strengths. What you fail to see is you are connecting dots that aren't there and are making leaps in logic simply because I do not agree with your view point or others. This works both ways. While you may not like what I have to say, that doesn't make your point or any other point 100% true or factual.

 

Lets stop playing the victim card and focus on the real issues instead of this childish finger pointing and accusatory discussion. Really, it undermines all of your arguments and makes you look silly. What I care about is the preservation of Galactic Command and the continued commitment to slowing down gear progression considerably. You are more than welcome to provide your own ideas, but please stay on topic and stop using petty insults and attacks as a means of trying to force your ideology on others. You are no more important here than anyone else.

[StupidWiz]

If this sort of post doesn't prove he's trolling I don't know what else will.

So, if someone disagrees with you then that person is automatically a troll?

 

imo, Aowin has been articulate and civil in expressing his opinions. So, attacking him because you don't like his ideas/opinions is only saying a lot about yourselves.

[Aowin]

So, if someone disagrees with you then that person is automatically a troll?

 

imo, Aowin has been articulate and civil in expressing his opinions. So, attacking him because you don't like his ideas/opinions is only saying a lot about yourselves.

 

I appreciate the kind remarks. I understand people don't like opinions that don't align with their own. In my personal opinion, the only way BioWare can obtain quality feedback is if we, the player base, throw ideas around and talk them through. We don't always have to agree, but I do believe these conversations have value and I think BioWare greatly appreciates them in order to take steps towards improving the game. To simply ignore other views and use inflammatory language to attempt to discredit others is childish and counterproductive. I believe we can all offer something of value to BioWare, but we must do so in a decent, respectful, and meaningful manner.

[eartharioch]

So, if someone disagrees with you then that person is automatically a troll?

 

imo, Aowin has been articulate and civil in expressing his opinions. So, attacking him because you don't like his ideas/opinions is only saying a lot about yourselves.

 

Being "articulate" and "civil" are not dispositive of being a troll. Your post, for example, appears to be both articulate and civil. Also, "articulate" may not mean what you think it means -- while Aowin appears to be *literate*, the sheer number of equally literate replies to his posts asking him to explain what he means seriously calls into question his articulacy.

[Khevar]

What I care about is the preservation of Galactic Command and the continued commitment to slowing down gear progression considerably.

For what it's worth, I don't personally have a problem with the general idea behind Galactic Command. The idea that one is not limited to a specific set of activities to obtain good gear is, in my opinion, worth preserving.

 

Now, as far as slowing down gear progression considerably, I'm willing assume purely for for the sake of the argument that this is a desirable goal.

 

HOWEVER, this leads me to point out the fact that GC being accompanied by RNG will result in 3 distinct groups:

 

1. Group A will obtain gear at Bioware's target rate.

2. Group B will obtain gear MUCH FASTER due to "lucky dice rolls:"

3. Group C will obtain gear MUCH SLOWER due to "unlucky dice rolls"

 

And note, there is no player agency involved in moving out of Group C.

 

It doesn't matter if they become a more skilled player. It doesn't matter if they change their primary role from dps to healer or tank. It doesn't matter if they read class guides, or practice. They're just unlucky, and there's nothing to be done.

 

Meanwhile, the Group A players are gearing up "too" fast. Suddenly this theoretically desirable goal of "slowing down gear progression" goes out the window (for that group).

 

This is not a desirable situation.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Khevar

[ivanhedgehog]

So, if someone disagrees with you then that person is automatically a troll?

 

imo, Aowin has been articulate and civil in expressing his opinions. So, attacking him because you don't like his ideas/opinions is only saying a lot about yourselves.

 

he has been articulate and civil repeating his often debunked position over and over and over again. You could consider that he is discussing anything if he showed any proof to his wild statements, but he doesnt. he never actuall gores forward with the discussion, he always goes back to page one of his wild statements. that isnt a discussion.

[eartharioch]

Quote: Originally Posted by Aowin

#1, I don't know why you keep wasting your time trying to explain math to somebody who is clearly innumerate AND demonstrably unwilling to accept any refutation of anything he says regardless of the facts. There's a saying about what constitutes insanity, and I hate to see you heading in that direction.

 

And note, there is no player agency involved in moving out of Group C.

You are incorrect, there are at least three ways of moving out of Group C which rely on player agency:

 

C1 - Players unsub and stop receiving any gear and stop playing. Each player that does so reduces the size of Group C.

 

C2 - Players unsub and stop receiving any gear. They continue to play [as preferred], gaining credits, but no GC crates. With credits, they can purchase the gear of their choice from the GTN. Again, this decreases the size of Group C.

 

C3 - Players continue to play and eventually get better gear. For any *finite* number of rolls, this isn't guaranteed, but if BW (as they have said they would) monitors the situation and takes action, players eventually move out of Group C.

 

C4 - Players in Group C never die, the universe (and the game) doesn't end, so every nonzero chance event eventually occurs.

 

You are such a pessimist, Khevar, I'm going to switch over to @AowinIsRight just as soon as I get my Tier 3 set.

Edited December 13, 2016 by eartharioch

[Hichitsuki-hime]

If this sort of post doesn't prove he's trolling I don't know what else will.

 

ever since i started playing this game, i've always wondered..... what is it exactly that makes this or that person a troll? like do i tell that the person i'm arguing with is in fact trolling me? 0.o