RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Jamtas]

Inclusiveness. It's really that simple. I've been playing this game since closed beta. I've participated in every major update and every major expansion. This game has slowly but surely been streamlined (some would argue simplified) over time. The goal? To make a more inclusive and accepting experience.

 

One of the biggest problem with all MMOs is newcomer retention. MMOs historically have a bad track record with encouraging new players to join. Why is this? The game is set up in such a way that benefits the veteran over everybody else. This is particularly true with endgame gear progression.

 

The moment a new player comes into the game, they are instantly at a disadvantage and a massive learning curve is needed to understand the complexities of the system. For a veteran to the MMORPG genre, this may not seem like a big deal. However, to folks who have never played an MMO, this is a daunting task.

.

 

In it's current state, GC will be the most unfriendly system to a new player this game has had. Sure you can say that you expect changes to be made, but in it's current format, new players will be far behind those that have been in the game grinding away at CXP. And while yes there will be CXP weekends and such, those will also apply to the older players who get further ahead still either on their mains, or now also have 2-3 alts compared to a new player who has one semi geared main.

 

BioWare understands this and they will make adjustments, as they already are, to make sure the system better represents the players and what we want.

 

Currently, they have only committed to raising the XP gains on a few play types. There is nothing being introduced yet as catch-up or RNG fall backs. Those are in essence part of "the wall of crazy" until they are introduced as coming.

 

 

As Ben said they will monitor. I think that will mean they monitor how subscriptions go the next few months once the initial purchase to see the story crowd has come/gone and then we see who stays subbed to do GC. That is really the metric they will follow- not how many people are getting gear vs not getting gear. It will be if subs fall "hey we are making changes to the system", and if subs increase or maintain, "everything looking ok but we will continue to monitor" will be the refrain. It most certainly will not be decided by the actual gear drop rates.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Jamtas

[scardera]

Pretty sure those "misguided" players could care less how you feel. Swtor has been in the top 5 of mmos every month this year thanks to these "misguided" players.

 

http://massivelyop.com/2016/10/27/superdatas-september-report-shows-destiny-wow-gw2-swtor-and-tera-doing-well/

 

behind lineage 1 and fantasy westward online 2(what is this ???) lol GREAT lol lol lol lol...slow claps

[Aowin]

Sort of sounds like a dictatorship imo... control should be given to players to accommodate various skill levels and play styles and the problem is that players aren't balanced. Everything is luck dependent now so no player is truly equal, everyone has to suffer and be forced to be put onto a terrible grind and since everyone's luck is different, no one is truly equal. Once again, that is NOT explaining the RNG factor itself, is a good thing in swtor, only the galactic command system.

 

Developers are dictators. They determine the direction of the game. They will always consider feedback, but the ultimate vision and where the game goes is up to the development studio. In fairness, they are the professionals and they understand how the meat is made. A lot of things sound great on paper, but that doesn't mean those ideas will necessarily translate over into a quality experience. That's why BioWare's leadership makes the ultimate call of what's best, and in this case they believe more control over gear distribution is better in the interest of the game.

 

As I said before, RNG is a means of slowing progression. It provides a variable of unpredictability into the system, preventing players from "gaming the system," if you will, and getting too far ahead while the rest fall behind.

[scardera]

Its the star wars IP, they could have a game that involved people throwing bantha dung at eachother and nothing else and some people would play it just because its star wars. What is the minimum subscriber count that EA will allow before they flush? Only they know, maybe it will work, maybe bw austin will be getting pink slips, only time will tell. Going on your 2 month vacation just after you drop the hammer on your yearly "content" dump in not the brightest schedule you could think of.

 

 

lol you killed me with the bantha dung but its so true and some SWTOR whales would pay for CM premium dung and reskin dung

[peter_plankskull]

Developers are dictators.

 

Only bad ones.

 

There's a difference between letting consumers take over complete control of your product and not listening to any form of feedback. The developers or consumers should not dictate how a game goes but rather work together so there both happy. That is not happening in SWTOR at all, there refusing to address any issues about the current length and random element of the new system which makes progression infuriating rather than satisfying knowing that it no longer depends on skill, but just a slot machine dial.

 

SWTOR is a constantly evolving game too not to mention, it's not a one time purchase, if anything imo for a MMO or game that is centered on subscriptions the consumers should have slightly more power than the developers since there actively required to pay for no restrictions. One time purchases you can get a full layout of the game through a review or preview, with SWTOR you never know what's around the corner and the lack of communication could lead to a alienation of a player base leaving them out of what use to be there go to game.

 

In fairness, they are the professionals and they understand how the meat is made. A lot of things sound great on paper, but that doesn't mean those ideas will necessarily translate over into a quality experience. That's why BioWare's leadership makes the ultimate call of what's best, and in this case they believe more control over gear distribution is better in the interest of the game.

 

There human like anyone else, while they may be more knowledge than the average person there still subjected to mistakes or being out of touch with the player base like they are now. Very few people I have seen in game like the new system, and the ones who do are very fortunate or have a vendetta against raiders and are happy to finally obtain the gear regardless if need or acquisition required for using it. They do not always know what's best for the game, and that's where they need to communicate with the player base more often to ensure people like future updates. People hated this system long before it launched, they didn't listen back then, and still haven't listened now.

 

As I said before, RNG is a means of slowing progression. It provides a variable of unpredictability into the system, preventing players from "gaming the system," if you will, and getting too far ahead while the rest fall behind.

 

As people have said before, RNG is NOT preventing players from what you stated. People are already falling behind regardless of time spent grinding or getting ahead through RNG, the exact opposite of what you stated. People can still game the system to get as many crates as possible by farming KP or doing pvp, they just simply can't game what's inside which still causes a imbalance anyway. If you don't pvp or kp farm, it's simple, you're falling behind.

[Aowin]

...

 

I'd reserve judgment about how BioWare's new system is impacting the game until more than a week has passed. Once we've seen how GC has affected gear progression for the community a month or two from now, then we'll see if BioWare was foolish or not. Even if they were, they'd be able to easily tweak it. They could not before under the previous system. Really, I see a lot of doom and gloom and the expansion literally just released. This is preposterous.

[DariusCalera]

I'd reserve judgment about how BioWare's new system is impacting the game until more than a week has passed. Once we've seen how GC has affected gear progression for the community a month or two from now, then we'll see if BioWare was foolish or not. Even if they were, they'd be able to easily tweak it. They could not before under the previous system. Really, I see a lot of doom and gloom and the expansion literally just released. This is preposterous.

 

However, the question is, how many people that unsubscribed because of the rng crate foolishness will comeback.

[kdraco]

As Ben said they will monitor. I think that will mean they monitor how subscriptions go the next few months once the initial purchase to see the story crowd has come/gone and then we see who stays subbed to do GC. That is really the metric they will follow- not how many people are getting gear vs not getting gear. It will be if subs fall "hey we are making changes to the system", and if subs increase or maintain, "everything looking ok but we will continue to monitor" will be the refrain. It most certainly will not be decided by the actual gear drop rates.

 

Much as I'm hoping that won't be the case, the cynical side of me feels this is more along the lines of how it will go. My own record is 32 or so boxes opened across 3 toons and 1 set piece so far. I may have been excited and curious about the GC point system the first few boxes but not now. I'll consider it a pleasant surprise if I open a crate later and get a set piece, but otherwise I'm putting mods into legacy gear if they're an upgrade and disintegrating half of what I get most of the time.

 

I've decided I'm going to level all my toons to 70 and play them as I feel like it, run through the story and keep running events with my guilds. What keeps me playing the game is the people I enjoy playing with. As long as that keeps me happy I'll stay. But I'm not going to spend much extra effort grinding CXP on any toon right now because I feel the return on investment is not worth my time. Several years ago I might have done it but not now.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

it's funny how you say that BW wants us to be happy to get blue and green stuff (with how often we get them , that is even a plausible assumption). but, and this is a pretty big but too imo, a lot of people already have 220 purple stuff of not 224. so in that case green gear is most certainly useless. and the blue isn't much different. so if purple are as rare as Aowin says, (though my thread of what did we get so far suggests that the rarity of purple stuff totally depends on your LUCK lol), then we're all pretty much in a bad spot. especially those of us for whom only purple stuff is an upgrade lol:D:D

 

there has to be a way to base the ilvl of the drop on the ilvl of the player lol. like the world quests in WoW lol. that way we won't have to grind a whole level before getting to things where even greens would be an upgrade lol. that's just my opinion though >.>:D

[DarthWoad]

Developers are dictators. They determine the direction of the game. They will always consider feedback, but the ultimate vision and where the game goes is up to the development studio.

 

Wrong. EA holds Bioware by the leash.

[HarrisTheHeckler]

Speaking exclusively for myself, I prefer a visible reward for my time and effort.

 

I participated in the Light vs Dark event recently, because I was interested in the companion reward. So I grinded through all the content required to reach the Eternal Level and unlock what turned out to be Master Ranos. Worth it.

 

The commendation system allowed you to chip away at getting a piece of gear of your choosing. There was a clear reward to grind toward. That doesn't exist in the Galactic Command system at this point. When I open a crate and there's nothing in it that I want or is usable, it actually feels like I wasted my time.

 

I would argue that the best solution would be each crate automatically drops a light or dark token and once you accumulate enough tokens you can go to the appropriate vendor to purchase gear. That way every crate drops something useful and still allows you to work toward gear you want/need if RNG constantly screws you over. Any system that relies so heavily on RNG should always have a safety net, because the odds dictate someone will always be at the negative end of the spectrum, getting nothing worthwhile. And nobody ever likes to hear, "Well, that's just how RNG works!" when they're left empty handed and it absolutely doesn't have to be that way.

[ConradLionhart]

I love streamlining. It's what impressed me about the game, and I approve of the change in direction from a hardcore MMO into more of a solo online RPG.

 

There are plenty of MMOs that cater to the hardcore raider. But very few MMOs like SW:TOR focuses on the casuals and solo players.

 

Level scaling on planets.

Changing companions affection system to influence. I miss gearing up companions manually but influence is easier to manage.

Amazing story chapters.

Interesting "solo group content" like star fortress and Eternal Championship.

Being able to craft almost the best gear.

And now, solo players can get the best gear without it being locked behind operations, as long as they keep playing.

 

The one glaring content missing from this is a companion content, something like WoW's Garrison missions. What WoW did was obviously a lite version of Mass Effect 3's War Readiness system.

 

We have a plethora of companions. We must be able to do something with them beyond crew missions.

Edited December 12, 2016 by ConradLionhart

[Aowin]

it's funny how you say that BW wants us to be happy to get blue and green stuff (with how often we get them , that is even a plausible assumption). but, and this is a pretty big but too imo, a lot of people already have 220 purple stuff of not 224. so in that case green gear is most certainly useless. and the blue isn't much different. so if purple are as rare as Aowin says, (though my thread of what did we get so far suggests that the rarity of purple stuff totally depends on your LUCK lol), then we're all pretty much in a bad spot. especially those of us for whom only purple stuff is an upgrade lol:D:D

 

there has to be a way to base the ilvl of the drop on the ilvl of the player lol. like the world quests in WoW lol. that way we won't have to grind a whole level before getting to things where even greens would be an upgrade lol. that's just my opinion though >.>:D

 

Don't take my word for it. Listen to Ben in the live stream that I know you were present in (I saw your name in chat). He specifically stated that BioWare wanted the community to see other gear sets that weren't purple as valuable in 5.0. Players had been so spoiled by getting purples immediately that no other color had any value and was essentially worthless. BioWare wants to change this mentality, which is part of the reason purples are so hard to come by. They want purples to be rare and rewarding when people obtain them. Yes, RNG can allow some players to be luckier than others. That being said, the system largely does achieve what Ben and the team set out to do. Folks will just have to change their perception of these lower tiers of gear and see the worth in them.

[Frenesi]

Don't take my word for it. Listen to Ben in the live stream that I know you were present in (I saw your name in chat). He specifically stated that BioWare wanted the community to see other gear sets that weren't purple as valuable in 5.0. Players had been so spoiled by getting purples immediately that no other color had any value and was essentially worthless. BioWare wants to change this mentality, which is part of the reason purples are so hard to come by. They want purples to be rare and rewarding when people obtain them. Yes, RNG can allow some players to be luckier than others. That being said, the system largely does achieve what Ben and the team set out to do. Folks will just have to change their perception of these lower tiers of gear and see the worth in them.

 

How nice. So, you shifted from "Bioware wants everybody to be equal" to "Bioware wants to slow progression", and now it turns into "Bioware wants to bring value to greens and blues".

 

Too bad there's no value to them. They are WORSE than purple gear, no matter how you look at it. Also, purple and orange can be fine-tuned for optimal stat distribution. Blue and green gear can not. Therefore, it's worse even when on level.

 

I suggest you find something else to defend Bioware with.

[Frenesi]

 

And now, solo players can get the best gear without it being locked behind operations, as long as they keep playing.

 

 

They can not. It was explained countless times why during this thread, yet naive people like you still pop up. This isn't the case where chance equals any practical possibility.

[Tsillah]

Don't take my word for it. Listen to Ben in the live stream that I know you were present in (I saw your name in chat). He specifically stated that BioWare wanted the community to see other gear sets that weren't purple as valuable in 5.0. Players had been so spoiled by getting purples immediately that no other color had any value and was essentially worthless. BioWare wants to change this mentality, which is part of the reason purples are so hard to come by. They want purples to be rare and rewarding when people obtain them. Yes, RNG can allow some players to be luckier than others. That being said, the system largely does achieve what Ben and the team set out to do. Folks will just have to change their perception of these lower tiers of gear and see the worth in them.

 

They are sets only in name. The biggest difference between the colours is that only purple has the set bonuses and that's the only thing that really makes the difference. The rest has an alternative called crafting.

 

People don't have to change their perception by the way. It's unnecessarily clunky to have a random gearing system that includes 4 different colours, 3 different tiers and a number of variations within each of them (MK-1, MK-3, MK-11, etc.). Also it's very hard to change such a perception since you have green and blue gear easily accesibly while leveling. So there is nothing special about those colours once you get to level 70. All they really needed to do was make tier 2 and 3 less easily accessible as it was in 4.0 and you would've already seen a difference in gearing speed.

 

Also making it extremely hard to gear alts was a bad idea. People have gotten used to leveling alts and gearing them and just playing different roles. That's called content. This content has now been gated by a long grind only to be able to get to the same content as twice before.

 

You can defend it all you want. And if people believe BWA their perception will change, but only because they accept this change, not because it's actually true. The differences between the different gear types as I mentioned above makes it that a lot of upgrades are not worth the time. Especially when you get 3 implants in a row that you can only equip one of. And as mentioned why would you rip out a mod that has slightly more points on it and doesnt' really make a real difference? Because of the excessively layering between gear drops and crafted gear, a lot of people who raid are going for the crafted gear. Do you see what that means?

 

It means that by going for crafted mods an enhancements, this completely devaluates what comes out of the gearboxes except if it has a set bonus or if it's an optimised trinket. So this will make sure that the perception stays. The set bonuses are too significant too ignore in pvp or raiding. So considering how often set bonus pieces drop, the whole experience will still be reduced down to whether it has a set bonus or not. Since mostly that's not the case, it will feel unrewarding.

 

In essence, this gearing system only works for people who don't really care about gear or people who play 8+ hours a day cause they have nothing else to do. I guess BWA has worked hard to focus on those demographics but I don't see that as a good development.

[Aowin]

How nice. So, you shifted from "Bioware wants everybody to be equal" to "Bioware wants to slow progression", and now it turns into "Bioware wants to bring value to greens and blues".

 

Too bad there's no value to them. They are WORSE than purple gear, no matter how you look at it. Also, purple and orange can be fine-tuned for optimal stat distribution. Blue and green gear can not. Therefore, it's worse even when on level.

 

I suggest you find something else to defend Bioware with.

 

Or perhaps all of those points are equally valid? The answer is "yes, they are."

 

I don't have to defend BioWare. The system speaks for itself whether you endorse it or not.

[Tsillah]

Or perhaps all of those points are equally valid? The answer is "yes, they are."

 

I don't have to defend BioWare. The system speaks for itself whether you endorse it or not.

 

They are not valid, because people are factually not equal in this reward system because it's RNG+ and it's only slowing progression on average so for some it goes really quick and they don't have other people to play hard content with and some may never get their sets complete.

 

Your problem is that you think that if everybody buys a lottery ticket that they are equal. They're not. We all have an equal chance at winning but most people won't win. You just look at the entry point, we look at the exit point and the exit point is anything but equal. In other words, we are all equal when we get a crate and stop being equal once we open it.

 

There are other and better ways to slow progress by the way. RNG+ is not the best way to do this because it sets people at gear difference and that will only get worse over time for new players who will be way behind. Just imagine having your first level 70 in about 6 months from now. A guild won't be able to pull you into the harder content they'll hopefully be doing by then, so you'll be on your own till you have the gear required. These are things that will start happening unless BWA make some needed changes.

 

Reportedly they are preparing some bigger changes, as per the livestream. Sorry, but even BWA recognises some of the issues that you won't.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tsillah

[BoySaber]

Yeah, this system is splitting players to not be able to advance together. The only way to play together would be to not progress. And not that it only costs real money, but it also costs to repeat years stale content.

[Frenesi]

Or perhaps all of those points are equally valid? The answer is "yes, they are."

 

I don't have to defend BioWare. The system speaks for itself whether you endorse it or not.

 

Yea, they are equally valid in a way that all of them are ********.

 

Point about increasing time to gear is obvious, but isn't beneficial to players.

 

Point about equality is ********. It has been explained countless times why, but you proceed to ignore it every time it's brought up

 

Point about "making people to enjoy greens" is also ********, not to mention that "forcing" people to do something only works so many times.

 

System does speak for itself. And it doesn't say any good things, despite your best efforts to convince us otherwise.

[Aowin]

Yea, they are equally valid in a way that all of them are ********.

 

Point about increasing time to gear is obvious, but isn't beneficial to players.

 

Point about equality is ********. It has been explained countless times why, but you proceed to ignore it every time it's brought up

 

Point about "making people to enjoy greens" is also ********, not to mention that "forcing" people to do something only works so many times.

 

System does speak for itself. And it doesn't say any good things, despite your best efforts to convince us otherwise.

 

That is your opinion. You are certainly more than entitled to it. BioWare doesn't happen to share your views. I can only hope that in time you will come to appreciate the system as BioWare tweaks it and improves it. Otherwise, I think you will be miserable for quite some time.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

That is your opinion. You are certainly more than entitled to it. BioWare doesn't happen to share your views. I can only hope that in time you will come to appreciate the system as BioWare tweaks it and improves it. Otherwise, I think you will be miserable for quite some time.

and maybe we will.... once we have different things to enjoy during hte grind that isn't 2+years old content lol

[Tsillah]

That is your opinion. You are certainly more than entitled to it. BioWare doesn't happen to share your views. I can only hope that in time you will come to appreciate the system as BioWare tweaks it and improves it. Otherwise, I think you will be miserable for quite some time.

 

Has it occured to you that some of our views might well be the reason why they will be making some tweaks?

 

Unless you work for BWA, you actually have no idea what views they share with whom. You are continuously dishonest with your commentaries by acting like you know what they want and think ...considering your signature that dishonestly seems rather hypocritical.

[peter_plankskull]

How nice. So, you shifted from "Bioware wants everybody to be equal" to "Bioware wants to slow progression", and now it turns into "Bioware wants to bring value to greens and blues".

 

Too bad there's no value to them. They are WORSE than purple gear, no matter how you look at it. Also, purple and orange can be fine-tuned for optimal stat distribution. Blue and green gear can not. Therefore, it's worse even when on level.

 

I suggest you find something else to defend Bioware with.

 

Don't forget orange gear .

[BoySaber]

That is your opinion. You are certainly more than entitled to it. BioWare doesn't happen to share your views. I can only hope that in time you will come to appreciate the system as BioWare tweaks it and improves it. Otherwise, I think you will be miserable for quite some time.

 

Has it occured to you that some of our views might well be the reason why they will be making some tweaks?

 

Unless you work for BWA, you actually have no idea what views they share with whom. You are continuously dishonest with your commentaries by acting like you know what they want and think ...considering your signature that dishonestly seems rather hypocritical.

 

The reason BioWare is making tweaks because both, them and players together disagree with Aowin. We players are opening BiowWare's eyes, obviously. Aowin placed himself at BioWare's side, but he is not on their side nor player side, his way would damage company and players, thus the tweak income and will keep incoming until compromise is met. Almost 100 pages now and still no explanation that the title of the topic claims to have.

Edited December 12, 2016 by BoySaber