RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Tsetso]

i can't be sure if they're bots or not, but this type of retard that will just stay still in huttball when the ball is passed to them and just say 'i don't want to' when people yell at them to run the ball or at least pass it..... well. i don't know what's worse: this or bots lol :D:D

 

Could be a RP-er. Are you sure he wasn't using the RP walk?

[Vember]

Name one thing you dislike about the game?

 

I can name lots of things if you like:

 

Lack of actual content expansions

Missing companions

The fact that they keep getting rid of gear shells, there's so much cool stuff gone from the game

Lack of new ops

Lack of new wz

Piss poor class balance

Stupid bugs that haven't been fixed, ie the preview window

The fact that it took them three years to fix the cape clipping through mounts bug, annoyed me to no end

 

This list can go on. I have lots of things to complain about. GC isn't really one of them.

[Andryah]

Random number generation. A phrased used for a lot of things but mainly when something is just randomly generated.

 

Like in a casino. Pull the slot machine handle and hope for the best.

 

Thats how swtor is played at end game now. It not only hurts new gamers but even returning or veteran gamers as well. This game doesn't deserve to be changed to that type of game from where we were.

 

Let's crispen that up just a bit and take the editorial bias out of it.

 

RNG is simply a random number generated inside a server. It is not evil, though you could use it in bad ways.

 

RNG is ubiquitous in MMOs, and always has been. You literally can not go into combat in an MMO without running into RNG. It is simply a variable applied in a calculation or routine in a game to achieve a variable result. This is precisely why harping on RNG falls on essentially deaf ears in the studio, as they understand it, and a lot of players do not really... and just use it as a hate/protest meme.

 

In the case of GC crates, it is used as part of the lookup in a loot table that corresponds to the players class and discipline for one or two slots in the crate. Other slots in the crate also use RNG and different loot tables to provide different things.

 

The way they have chosen to do crates is not inherently bad. They actually parse the slots in the crates, so that some slots drop class/discipline specific itesm (gear), and other slots drop secondary items, like empty shell cosmetic gear, companion gifts, crafting recipes, etc. That method of parsing a crate is actually thoughtful as it precludes getting 4, 5, or 6 of the same exact thing that is not gear in any single crate (like six random non-useful cosmetic or vanity items.

 

The ISSUE is two fold, and not specific to RNG:

1) the current loot tables do not appear to have a rich setting on the stat based gear, particularly set bonus pieces. Some have noted this and appeal to the studio to richen the loot table percentages some. This would help, but would not guarantee a player that by X effort and Y time.. they WILL have their set bonus pieces. So while this may help.. it does not solve the core issue of players being able to fairly well predict how much time and effort they need to apply to get their gear set.

 

2) There is absolutely NO fail safe mechanism right now, such that a player can feel assured that they WILL get a full set of what they seek. There does need to be some form of fail safe for this, and I have advocated for the studio to put a ladder on GC levels (like they do with reputation) and provide a vendor that progressively unlocks items for direct purchase when you hit each step in the ladder. With this method, a player may get something sooner from a crate, but certainly can gain said item by simply reaching the correct ladder in the vendor loot table. Which means a player can fairly well calculate the time and effort to achieve item X, and then determine which content they want to play to level GC to hit the ladder. This has worked well with reputation levels for years now, and most players are willing to grind reputation for less vendor rewards then what is offered in GC. If they made the items BoL as well on the vendor, that solves the side issue of gearing alts. Launching without fail safes in place was an error on the part of the studio in my view. They have hinted that they understand this approach and are thinking about it, so that is a small amount of progress.

 

RNG is not bad in and of itself. And RNG for gear boxes is not bad in and of itself. What is currently bad is there is no fail safe to insure a player who is on the bad end of the RNG goddess to feel confident they can complete their efforts to get gear.

 

There is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water here. This is fixable without resorting to the harsh meme driven demands to remove RNG. The sooner you folks get off the RNG meme (on both sides of the discussion) and start focusing on coherent and workable suggestions (workable from the studio side, not just the players side) the sooner we may be able to pursade them to put in the needed fail safe(s) so we can all move forward with more certainty.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Andryah

[DarthWoad]

Let's crispen that up just a bit and take the editorial bias out of it.

 

RNG is simply a random number generated inside a server. It is not evil, though you could use it in bad ways.

 

RNG is ubiquitous in MMOs, and always has been. You literally can not go into combat in an MMO without running into RNG. It is simply a variable applied in a calculation or routine in a game to achieve a variable result. This is precisely why harping on RNG falls on essentially deaf ears in the studio, as they understand it, and a lot of players do not really... and just use it as a hate/protest meme.

 

In the case of GC crates, it is used as part of the lookup in a loot table that corresponds to the players class and discipline for one or two slots in the crate. Other slots in the crate also use RNG and different loot tables to provide different things.

 

The way they have chosen to do crates is not inherently bad. They actually parse the slots in the crates, so that some slots drop class/discipline specific itesm (gear), and other slots drop secondary items, like empty shell cosmetic gear, companion gifts, crafting recipes, etc. That method of parsing a crate is actually thoughtful as it precludes getting 4, 5, or 6 of the same exact thing that is not gear in any single crate (like six random non-useful cosmetic or vanity items.

 

The ISSUE is two fold, and not specific to RNG:

1) the current loot tables do not appear to have a rich setting on the stat based gear, particularly set bonus pieces. Some have noted this and appeal to the studio to richen the loot table percentages some. This would help, but would not guarantee a player that by X effort and Y time.. they WILL have their set bonus pieces. So while this may help.. it does not solve the core issue of players being able to fairly well predict how much time and effort they need to apply to get their gear set.

 

2) There is absolutely NO fail safe mechanism right now, such that a player can feel assured that they WILL get a full set of what they seek. There does need to be some form of fail safe for this, and I have advocated for the studio to put a ladder on GC levels (like they do with reputation) and provide a vendor that progressively unlocks items for direct purchase when you hit each step in the ladder. With this method, a player may get something sooner from a crate, but certainly can gain said item by simply reaching the correct ladder in the vendor loot table. Which means a player can fairly well calculate the time and effort to achieve item X, and then determine which content they want to play to level GC to hit the ladder. This has worked well with reputation levels for years now, and most players are willing to grind reputation for less vendor rewards then what is offered in GC. If they made the items BoL as well on the vendor, that solves the side issue of gearing alts.

 

RNG is not bad in and of itself. And RNG for gear boxes is not bad in and of itself. What is currently bad is there is no fail safe to insure a player who is on the bad end of the RNG goddess to feel confident they can complete their efforts to get gear.

 

There is no need to throw the baby out with the bath water here. This is fixable without resorting to the harsh meme driven demands to remove RNG. The sooner you folks get off the RNG meme (on both sides of the discussion) and start focusing on coherent and workable suggestions (workable from the studio side, not just the players side) the sooner we may be able to pursade them to put in the needed fail safe(s).

 

Well that is your opinion. And I completely disagree with you. I'm sure many others on this forum do too. RNG for geari s a BAD idea. Period.

 

Why do you need to call other players concerns a "meme"? Is that your way of gently attacking others?

 

And anyway, I'm gonna need you to quote your sources. Thanks.

Edited December 9, 2016 by DarthWoad

[DarthWoad]

I can name lots of things if you like:

 

Lack of actual content expansions

Missing companions

The fact that they keep getting rid of gear shells, there's so much cool stuff gone from the game

Lack of new ops

Lack of new wz

Piss poor class balance

Stupid bugs that haven't been fixed, ie the preview window

The fact that it took them three years to fix the cape clipping through mounts bug, annoyed me to no end

 

This list can go on. I have lots of things to complain about. GC isn't really one of them.

 

Well, if you don't like the game, then just go.

[Jplankey]

What is RNG?

[Vember]

Well, if you don't like the game, then just go.

 

I will, when I don't. And I won't feel the need to cry all over the forums before I go, either.

[Jadescythe]

RNG is not bad in and of itself. And RNG for gear boxes is not bad in and of itself. What is currently bad is there is no fail safe to insure a player who is on the bad end of the RNG goddess to feel confident they can complete their efforts to get gear.

 

I find it hard to take this point seriously after you spent multiple paragraphs outlining the shortcomings of the RNG system and how the problems can be mitigated. Obviously the RNG is bad in and of itself or you wouldn't have to change the system to make it work. Just predetermine what GC levels award a set piece of gear and redesign the interface to allow them to choose from the entire loot table for their class rather than randomly award the gear. Everything else along the lines of gifts, schematics, and cosmetic gear can be the exciting part and give players the "thrill" of the RNG hunt.

[DarthWoad]

What is RNG?

 

It stands for Random Number Generator. It's another way of saying chance or luck. With RNG in the command crates you get a chance of getting an item

 

(saved you a wall of text there).

[DarthWoad]

I find it hard to take this point seriously after you spent multiple paragraphs outlining the shortcomings of the RNG system and how the problems can be mitigated. Obviously the RNG is bad in and of itself or you wouldn't have to change the system to make it work. Just predetermine what GC levels award a set piece of gear and redesign the interface to allow them to choose from the entire loot table for their class rather than randomly award the gear. Everything else along the lines of gifts, schematics, and cosmetic gear can be the exciting part and give players the "thrill" of the RNG hunt.

 

Agree 100%. Unfortunately some people will never understand and just push and push their views and call your concerns a "meme" if they don't agree with you.

Edited December 9, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Andryah]

I find it hard to take this point seriously after you spent multiple paragraphs outlining the shortcomings of the RNG system and how the problems can be mitigated. Obviously the RNG is bad in and of itself or you wouldn't have to change the system to make it work. Just predetermine what GC levels award a set piece of gear and redesign the interface to allow them to choose from the entire loot table for their class rather than randomly award the gear. Everything else along the lines of gifts, schematics, and cosmetic gear can be the exciting part and give players the "thrill" of the RNG hunt.

 

If you are not going to bother actually reading what I explained and suggested simple ways to overcome it that use classic MMO reputation mechanics.... so be it. I certainly cannot stop you, but I also will not get into a primal debate with you over it either. You just want to argue and dismiss, rather then look at what is fairly straightforward in mechanics improvements to make the system workable and predictable.

 

My comments were directed at people who have an open mind and understand that this is fixable without completely ripping it out, and would actually be pretty sweet when/if they fix it. You clearly have no time for such open mindedness, and just want a slash/burn/purge instead. Have fun with that.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Andryah

[DarthWoad]

If you are not going to bother actually reading what I explained and suggested simple ways to overcome it that use classic MMO reputation mechanics.... so be it. I certainly cannot stop you, but I also will not get into a primal debate with you over it either.

 

My comments were directed at people who have an open mind and understand that this is fixable without completely ripping it out, and would actually be pretty sweet when/if they fix it. You clearly have no time for such open mindedness, and just want a slash/burn/purge instead. Have fun with that.

 

Oh trust me, we read what you put. We just completely disagree with you.

 

The guy gave a perfectly good suggestion and your response is that? It's like you thought it was a good suggestion as well, in fact better than yours and it's like you're cornered now, lashing out and accusing him of not reading what you put and being closed minded, just because his idea is different to yours. That's not needed imo.

Edited December 9, 2016 by DarthWoad

[Aowin]

Galactic Command is not what you titled your topic with. We all agree that Galactic Command, this new version of Group Finder is good way to go to benefit veteran and newcomers. RNG does not benefit anyone and is entirely different topic that sucked on Galactic Command as a parasite. You said you played since beta. I may not be veteran by your standards but I play since 2012 and I hope you will take my opinion into count. I never did NiM runs but I am not one to say no if opportunity happens, I play this game first and foremost for the story, because its Star Wars. But I also enjoy group activities.

 

I suggested compromise because current system does not benefit non heavy players at all. With already long queues as it is, we pay to wait to farm CXP to get a Crate that may or may not give us item we want and may never give us item we want, because RNG has no guarantee that your invested time and money (in 90% identical content that use to be free/GTN) will pay off. Playing swtor in terms of grinding CXP as a full time job may have some nice results, but what is to expect from players that have jobs, families, and the free time they invest to complete content in game bares no significant reward for months? Which current state of the game is. I don't get it how can your topic title wield word of "perfection" in this case, its beyond my understanding, and would like you to explain this to me because so far I fail to understand. I understand why company did it and they will think of any justification. But I don't know why you share their goal, as a fellow player to player, I really do not get you.

 

I've said it time and time again. Gear progression was far too fast and far too easy for veterans. On the other hand with newcomers, it was convoluted and not well-explained by the game. This led to an obvious division and a gap in terms of gear, creating the "haves" and have-nots."

 

BioWare did what any sensible studio would have, destroy the inequality at its source. I understand you, and many others do not like the RNG. That system merely provides a buffer to those who want to guarantee they'll get gear within a certain amount of time. It drastically slows down the process of progression so that the community is not divided immediately. It's great for the purposes of longevity as well as giving BioWare time to develop new content.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the direction BioWare has gone. Folks are just struggling to adjust to it due to being spoiled by an incredibly easy gear progression for years. It's expected and you can be sure BioWare knew this kind of reaction from part of the community was going to happen. Galactic Command with RNG is something BioWare has clearly been working on for quite some time. They weren't just going to revert course because a vocal minority was voicing their displeasure after a week of experiencing the system. That's not how you responsibly run an MMO.

 

These folks will either adapt or they will move on to something else. Or, I suppose there is always the third option of continuing to subscribe, hoping for content that is probably not coming, and continuing to beat a topic over the head like a dead horse.

[bodydropper]

I love all the new tory line and content, good job. I love the game the play style, etc. BUT ... I cannot stand this new rng system. Why waste all that time getting command points only to have no control over what you spend them on? I don't want to waste what little time I have on the game to begin with on a grindfest. No thank you! I disagree that this is "all inclusive" if it were A) it would be a little easier to figure out for new people, B) would make gearing your character for people who don't spend all day playing the game and C) would offer people more options for what they do with the command points. Most people I speak with are not happy about this, I personally will cancel my account. I do not like the fact that they are trying to force people to waste tons more time on the game. This isn't very user friendly for gearing characters.

[Quraswren]

RNG is not bad in and of itself.

 

Actually it is. You see the difference is in something like a casino, there are regulatory committees that make sure the odds stay somewhat "fair" but still give the house the advantage.

 

In the case of RNG in swtor, there is no one to keep things remotely even for fair as bw adjusts the numbers in hindsight. Adjust what can actually be obtained behind the curtain and while you open a crate and get "X". There is no way to ever know did you really have a chance at the MH you thought you did. Given its all hidden.

 

Bw chancing numbers again later to allow a couple days of "win" to carrot on a stick you into thinking you had a good run so might as well keep playing as things are adjust once again.

 

Designed to make sure you lose way more than you ever win and with no oversight to know how things ar manipulated in the background.

 

RNG in bad in and of it self. It wasn't ever created to be any real benefit to those it's used against. Even in a casino where its regulated. You lose more than win. swtor, you can bet it will be worse in their attempt to strong you along doing stale, old content.

 

It doesn't get much clearer than that.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I've said it time and time again. Gear progression was far too fast and far too easy for veterans. On the other hand with newcomers, it was convoluted and not well-explained by the game. This led to an obvious division and a gap in terms of gear, creating the "haves" and have-nots."

 

damn, i read this and felt like i was having a deja-vu. in 4.0 highlighted ops made gear TOO EASY for everyone, no just vets. NOW it's too grindy and too RNG FOR EVERYONE. there has to be a balance FFS

 

BioWare did what any sensible studio would have, destroy the inequality at its source. I understand you, and many others do not like the RNG. That system merely provides a buffer to those who want to guarantee they'll get gear within a certain amount of time. It drastically slows down the process of progression so that the community is not divided immediately. It's great for the purposes of longevity as well as giving BioWare time to develop new content.

 

what progression are you talking about here????? all progression has been done with 2 years ago. since then it's been an endless cycle of grind gear/ grind gear for your alts/grind gear for your teammates/run sale runs for casuals. I see you say you yourself like the RNG? DO you like Ben, find it exciting? :D:D

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the direction BioWare has gone. Folks are just struggling to adjust to it due to being spoiled by an incredibly easy gear progression for years. It's expected and you can be sure BioWare knew this kind of reaction from part of the community was going to happen. Galactic Command with RNG is something BioWare has clearly been working on for quite some time. They weren't just going to revert course because a vocal minority was voicing their displeasure after a week of experiencing the system. That's not how you responsibly run an MMO.

 

GC can stay no problem. but this damn RNG needs to be fixed. end of story. i say so, 90% of forum says so. and BW even admits that's not ideal. and we're not a minority. there is not way to be sure of that. so keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but at the end of the day that doesn't change anything. if we're minority or in fact majority they read what we write (at least sometimes) and that's the opinions they take into account (every once in a blue moon)

 

These folks will either adapt or they will move on to something else. Or, I suppose there is always the third option of continuing to subscribe, hoping for content that is probably not coming, and continuing to beat a topic over the head like a dead horse.

 

well, they ARE beating the game like a dead horse, so we might as well do the same.

[Andryah]

I've said it time and time again. Gear progression was far too fast and far too easy for veterans. On the other hand with newcomers, it was convoluted and not well-explained by the game. This led to an obvious division and a gap in terms of gear, creating the "haves" and have-nots."

 

True, and I like the concept of GC overall, but I won't grind it until they put in some effort safeguards as well.

 

Thing is... the candy-shop approach to gearing in 4.0 does NOT excuse the current flaws in GC. Flaws that are fairly easy to fix.

 

I get that the studio is being cautious early on about dialing knobs and making changes, AND that players are in general impatient about gear because of prior systems and not liking change.... change where they cannot with any certainty predict the time and effort they will need to commit to be geared.

 

I'm all for returning to a slower gearing system then 4.0... and clearly the studio has a target of "average time and effort" they designed to. But without a fail-safe mechanism.. pessimistic players will simply walk away. Some improvements ARE needed. What is NOT needed is to rip out the entire methodology they have chosen... but it does need some work.

 

If we could just get off the meme of #REMOVE RNG that would be progress... as the studio has made it clear they are not going to remove it. If players in general would accept this and then begin to discuss ways to make simple improvements that provide some certainty in conjunction with the time and effort.... we could start to make some progress in encouraging the studio to take action along these lines.

 

I personally am not invested in any particular remedy approach, including those I have suggested, but I would like to see the forum collective stop with the bickering and pejoratives as the behavior simply encourages the studio to ignore all the chaos (and any good ideas buried within).

 

We DO need some improvements in the system, and we need them no later then January, not sometime in March or later. It can even be small incremental improvements, as long as they explain and communicate in a manner that helps rational players understand that things will get better.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Andryah

[Jadescythe]

If you are not going to bother actually reading what I explained and suggested simple ways to overcome it that use classic MMO reputation mechanics.... so be it. I certainly cannot stop you, but I also will not get into a primal debate with you over it either. You just want to argue and dismiss, rather then look at what is fairly straightforward in mechanics improvements to make the system workable and predictable.

 

My comments were directed at people who have an open mind and understand that this is fixable without completely ripping it out, and would actually be pretty sweet when/if they fix it. You clearly have no time for such open mindedness, and just want a slash/burn/purge instead. Have fun with that.

 

You've done the exact thing you are accusing me of. I even made a suggestion to rework the system without disbanding it in my post that you ignored. But I don't understand your refusal to acknowledge that RNG determining your drops in this system is the problem. You continuously suggest making changes to ensure that RNG doesn't keep you from what you want and to increase the drop% on the loot tables.

 

Isn't making the gear you get predetermined in the system just an objectively better way to do it? Why have some people get lucky and get what they wanted before others while forcing the unlucky ones to wait until they get to some maximum level to buy what they didn't win? It just seems like RNG is setting players up to be mad at each other.

[Aowin]

We DO need some improvements in the system, and we need them no later then January, not sometime in March or later. It can even be small incremental improvements, as long as they explain and communicate in a manner that helps rational players understand that things will get better.

 

I agree that actual, tangible improvements could be made if people would simply move on and stop trying to discredit the entire system. It's not going anywhere. There are things that can be done to provide those assurances and certainty. However, people have the mentality that it is "their way or the highway." Thus, I don't expect anything on the forums to change for the foreseeable future.

[Solitius]

I'm willing to give the new gearing system a shot, but I'm not all that impressed so far. It feels like a privatization of gearing capabilities. Sure, the field is evened out at face value, but there are those who have a distinct advantage and those who do not. Some players have the flexibility to load in 12 hours of play a day, and as a result have a better opportunity to complete gear sets. Others, such as myself, also work 40+ hours a week and scramble when we do log on to hoard CXP and wait patiently. That next earpiece or implant is a reason for us to celebrate a little. The old gearing system worked for everyone, and even those with other real life obligations were still able to gear up to max with an appropriate allocation of time. It's still fresh and we'll get used to it, but I'm essentially going to be rolling 1 or 2 toons in a PVP environment instead of really getting a feel for each class and how they function competitively. That's a little bit of a shame IMO

[gabigool]

I agree that actual, tangible improvements could be made if people would simply move on and stop trying to discredit the entire system. It's not going anywhere. There are things that can be done to provide those assurances and certainty. However, people have the mentality that it is "their way or the highway." Thus, I don't expect anything on the forums to change for the foreseeable future.

 

Many players enjoyed this game specifically because gear drops were not random. You may not fall into that category, but you seem to be dismissing that point of view. Incidentally, many of us felt this way long before HHM. IIRC most of us were against HHM in particular.

 

For many people, myself included, the issue is not wanting gear easily accessible. We want it to be predictable and "earnable". Random =/= "Earned". I've yet to see a positive attribute of a random system from you. I've seen a lot of hyperbole but you haven't once addressed how a CXP system tied into either tokens or vendors is less beneficial to the community.

 

Personally I feel the entire system is out of place in a game with no new meaningful content - and by that I mean content which requires the gear. I can imagine a scenario where a gear throttle is leveraged to preserve content lifecycle for the masses. But we are in a situation where content is 3 years old. Or four. I do not understand the benefit to the community of this system.

 

I was working on NM TFB last night. I've cleared it at level. Above level. Then again, at level. I've done timed runs during all three eras. I've done it on multiple classes on multiple roles. My group had a little trouble last night on WH because we're not doing much crafting and we're all server rerolls in extremely bad gear. I do not understand how this is exciting.

 

Edit: Oh, and by the way, for about 90 mins last night working on a few bosses, I got exactly 0 CXP.

 

ANY tweak the studio would make is to offset the negative of RNG. I'm on CXP level 36 now and I have zero set bonus pieces. I'm not sure how having been able to purchase three or four by now in some way would have somehow made this game less exciting for me. In fairness, my left side is ok. I'm not getting "nothing", but I'm not getting things I would utilize my understanding of the game to purchase.

 

Fine, you want to tell me I need to wait until a certain CXP level before I can utilize a vendor to patch my set pieces. A vendor that doesn't exist yet. I'm unclear on exactly why that is. But I do know that vendor is a bolt-on idea, requiring dev resources, and exists solely to offset a negative of RNG.

 

You should stop defending CXP and start defending RNG because to date, you have not. Not rationally at least.

 

I will continue to subscribe to the idea that RNG serves one purpose - monetization. You have not convinced me otherwise, and I assure you I've tried to keep an open mind as I've read through many, many threads and posts.

 

I have tried to look at it from the perspective of a story player. From a PvP player. Ops. H2. FP. UR. Casual. Hard-core. Average.

 

I see no place from which RNG is beneficial except to the studio.

 

But by all means, carry on.

Edited December 9, 2016 by gabigool

[gabigool]

I find it hard to agree with you. Sure, people can find guilds and groups, but SWTOR has a large population that isn't interested in playing with random people. This game has catered to players interested in playing alone or with a group of people they know for a long time now and asking them to participate in something they have no interest in to continue gear progression wasn't a good system.

 

SWTOR hasn't had a new raid in 2 years and it will be at least another year before they get one. In what world does it make sense to have the gear progression system live within a system that does not receive attention? Moving to the galactic command system is an extremely smart decision for BW based on the content they offer and the player base they are supporting. But, being BW, they made some enormous mistakes in implementation, never realizing that players aren't interested in playing hundreds of hours on each character to gear up.

 

I say this as someone who has been PvPing and raiding since launch. I'd love to have that strong community back, but it simply isn't an important part of this game any longer.

 

While I understand your point, I'd argue that "the content they offer" has zero need for the gear we're talking about. Literally none. The content in which it resided did though. I do not think it's a ridiculous situation.

 

That said, They could certainly have created alternate means to obtain it - as they have - but the argument that people "couldn't get it" doesn't play with me. People simply didn't want to. That's all I'm saying.

[Jadescythe]

While I understand your point, I'd argue that "the content they offer" has zero need for the gear we're talking about. Literally none. The content in which it resided did though. I do not think it's a ridiculous situation.

 

That said, They could certainly have created alternate means to obtain it - as they have - but the argument that people "couldn't get it" doesn't play with me. People simply didn't want to. That's all I'm saying.

 

Theoretically speaking, no one needed the best gear in the game for the entirety of SWTOR. A gear system that rewards the best gear by completing the hardest content makes no sense. You just did the hardest content, why would you need more powerful gear?

 

The fact that gear is used in every aspect of the game causes the old gear system to create haves and have nots. Whatever the difference may be, people had an easier time completing whatever it is they wanted to do simply because they wanted to raid. That's not a healthy environment. If it were, then raiders couldn't be mad if the best gear was only available via PvP, because after all, they could get it if they wanted to.

 

It's best for SWTOR to make the unique rewards for doing specific types of content cosmetic and allowing everyone to have access to the same levels of power through gear.

[IanArgent]

I hear you man. But it's like life bro. You get out what you put in. You can hope for something to happen, or you can make it happen.

 

I found my guilds simply by pugging stuff. Seeing who was good, who played together. When I saw a few people from one guild in the same run, and if they were good players, I'd ask what their guild was like. It's not difficult. I've done it on multiple servers.

 

I joined one way back in 2012 but they tried to run Operations via signup. I asked the GM if I could start a set team, and he said no, so I left. I kept talking to people and eventually found the right place, created a team and that was that. I had my team. There were 12 others. We'd sub for each other when needed. We'd organize open raids where anyone, with any gear could go.

 

We'd teach mechanics, gearing, class play etc. Eventually some of those players joined or formed their own teams. I'd run weekend open HM runs or overleveled NM runs. Those were loads of fun. I'd post early in the week for signups and follow up with the roster and strats. We killed a lot of stuff, and got a lot of people a lot of cheevos they otherwise might not have.

 

We weren't hard to find. From 2012 through 2015 that guild was usually in the top half of the front page of the SL guild forums. And during that time - at least most of the earlier part of that period - there were dozens of guilds like that on a lot of servers.

 

Listen, the point is moot now - RNG is here. But until it was, no one will ever convince me good gear was not obtainable by anyone. During 4.0 BiS gear was like rain. It was trivial to get. Pre 4.0 maybe not so much, but a full set of say, mid-tier (a la equiv of 220) set gear was there for anyone to take.

 

Corollary to my original negation of argument. If it requires pugging ops, it's an invalid argument; because pugging ops did (and probably does still, I haven't tried recently) require hanging around fleet (or flagships, I suppose) doing nothing but watching chat and posting in chat. It's not like I haven't tried to pug SM ops in the years I've been playing; but I've gotten into exactly 3, and 2 of those were due to picking up on a guildie's invite. Queuing through GF for ops is a broken waste of time. I'd rather be out playing the game than watching the jawa jokes go by. (This is not news to you, Gabi, I've ranted about this before, but there might be one or two people reading this that haven't seen my hate for the dysfunction of Ops GF.)

 

Incidentally, I put in plenty of play time. But I won't commit to group activity unless I know I have a clean slate for the time period I think it's going to take. And I rarely have an hour+ free to play. (And the one pure pug op I got into was SnV, and I was not expecting a 4-5 hour playtime, without wipes or excessive slack time.) I do PvP, I do GSF, I do the odd TFP. (I haven't done an Uprising yet because I haven't had time to play much since 5.0 dropped). My play sessions tend to run around an hour, max (coincidentally enough, the length of a chapter), with hard stops at the end and unpredictable breaks in the middle.

 

This means that, no, the Ops-grade gear was entirely inaccessible to me, despite nominally playing every week the amount of time a KP or EV run would take. I took the PvP armor for set bonus and ran with it; but then I locked myself into having PvP-statted armor, and forewent the PvE upgrade path because a hybrid armor set would kill my PvP effectiveness, and lack of PvE=level stats (fractionally improved as they are) blocked my own challenge advancement; there were fights out there I would lose by inches because of a fractional lack of DPS; and my own skill had plateaued.

 

Gear was freely available to anyone, who could get into a well-managed guild. "Well-managed guild" is an entirely inappropriate gear gating mechanism; because management of a guild is outside the span of control of the developers. Argument still invalid.

[gabigool]

Theoretically speaking, no one needed the best gear in the game for the entirety of SWTOR. A gear system that rewards the best gear by completing the hardest content makes no sense. You just did the hardest content, why would you need more powerful gear?

 

timed runs