RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Because BW doesn't WANT you to gear as quickly as you did before. The intention is to slow the gear process down so that players have "more" to do with less content. I would tend to agree that KotFE gearing was way too fast, but they seem to have hit the breaks a bit too hard with how long galactic command will take to gear up.

then they should just remove the priority ops thing that was what allowed people to gear too quickly. or anyway do something that makes it a little slower, but not to the point where i want to bang my head on the desk every time i open a crate and realize there's nothing but garbage in it lol:D:D

[gabigool]

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they never could before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

In other words, all the stuff guilds used to teach people how to do?

 

Gotcha. I'm glad they turned the entire experience into a giant slot machine to accomplish this. Incredible thinking.

 

tho - just spitballing here - they could have simply put set pieces on coms vendors, left everything else alone and solved the same problem.

 

I don't see why you're so against that idea. I mean - if they did that, you'd be saying how awesome that is. /shrug

[Jadescythe]

then they should just remove the priority ops thing that was what allowed people to gear too quickly. or anyway do something that makes it a little slower, but not to the point where i want to bang my head on the desk every time i open a crate and realize there's nothing but garbage in it lol:D:D

 

They also want it to be accessible. Gating gear behind difficult, multiplayer content hardly makes it accessible.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

They also want it to be accessible. Gating gear behind difficult, multiplayer content hardly makes it accessible.

okay tell me honestly what exactly do they need said nim tier reward gear for please??? i mean i don't mind them having it, but we need to work hard to get it too u know. no one stops people from learning mechanics and trying to do said content if they think they need that gear lol. this is like a circle lol

[eartharioch]

then they should just remove the priority ops thing that was what allowed people to gear too quickly. or anyway do something that makes it a little slower, but not to the point where i want to bang my head on the desk every time i open a crate and realize there's nothing but garbage in it lol:D:D

 

Yeah, guaranteed Nim gear for HMs (and not for NiMs at first) could easily have been removed w/out anywhere near the complaints about GC. And if GC had just been added (instead of removing guaranteed PVP/OPs gear for dedicated PVPers/PVErs, there would have been even less complaints.

[eartharioch]

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they never could before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

Those are decent reasons to *add* GC, but not to *remove* PVP/ops comms/tokens. GC isn't bad as *an addition* to the previous gearing system, it's bad as *a replacement*.

[RudbekAlliance]

In other words, all the stuff guilds used to teach people how to do?

 

Gotcha. I'm glad they turned the entire experience into a giant slot machine to accomplish this. Incredible thinking.

 

tho - just spitballing here - they could have simply put set pieces on coms vendors, left everything else alone and solved the same problem.

 

I don't see why you're so against that idea. I mean - if they did that, you'd be saying how awesome that is. /shrug

 

The problem is the legacy gearing system makes any kind of guaranteed system of divvying the gear means that getting 1 gear piece (or most expensive gear piece) is how long it will take for a person with a legacy to have a full set bonus. I think any suggestion involving removing rng and giving gear in a more straightforward way while at the same time making sure people aren't done gearing in the 3rd week would be a proposal which removes the ability to transfer gear by legacy.

 

I guess there's also the larger argument about what extent gear is the facilitator of content vs content on its own, but I can't really get into that.

 

There is a bigger problem though, which is a complete lack of communication from the dev team on what their thinking is behind rng and galactic command. How long do they think gearing should take? How many times a year do they think a new tier of gear should be added? Are they going to eventually reset command ranks like they did the dvl achievements?

 

Its difficult to propose a solution to the RNG situation without having some idea of why they thought it was a good idea in the first place.

[Morrolan]

As the system actually stands right now, PvP is far more fair than it was pre-5.0. With the removal of expertise and everybody currently being on the same tier, gear really isn't a factor. That could change once players hit tier 2, but for now the system is actually more balance than it has ever been in the history of the game.

 

You're contradicting yourself, in a previous post you stated: "How is gear now "moot" in SWTOR? It never has been moot as gear has always mattered. With expertise now gone, gear matters even more now. No, bolster does not help nearly as much as you think it does. I've already explained the benefit of having a goal and a sense of achievement in what you are doing. If you are unwilling to agree, that's just fine. I'm not here to convince you as what you are advocating for isn't going to happen anyway."

 

As for being fairer than 4.0, that is just completely incorrect when in 4.0 a player could get a full set of 204 gear with a few hours of play and a full set of 208 gear with a few days, and there was hardly any difference between 204 and 208.

[Jadescythe]

okay tell me honestly what exactly do they need said nim tier reward gear for please??? i mean i don't mind them having it, but we need to work hard to get it too u know. no one stops people from learning mechanics and trying to do said content if they think they need that gear lol. this is like a circle lol

 

That's not really an argument though. No one "needs" the best gear outside of the hardest content, but they still get it. The gear benefits players outside of NiM operations by making everything you do easier and faster. I don't see a compelling reason that a player who mostly does story and dailies should have to spend even an extra couple minutes running heroics over someone else who raids. It's a small difference that really adds up over time, makes players feel more important, and doesn't hurt the raiding community in any way seeing as there is no progression to break.

 

Players not understanding how to play will always be a problem. That's why you either choose to teach them or let them move along to another group that is willing to teach them. Whether BW is giving away gear for free or not won't stop bad players from being in your group finder queue or whatever.

[IanArgent]

It sounds like you were playing a simulator and not a sandbox MMO. Character progression (i.e. stats) are a pillar of RPGs. Every MMORPG I have ever played (sandbox or theme park) had stats. Some games made them more relevant than others, but they all had stats. To not have any stats at all is to not be an MMORPG.

 

The pillars of the MMO: Combat, Exploration, and Progression. SWTOR added the fourth pillar of Story to the equation and many MMOs have tried to follow suit, with ESO being a major example.

 

Those four pillars must be intact for an experience to be a modern MMORPG.

 

They marketed themselves as an MMORPG. The progression was in personal skill and personal possessions. Not all of which were cosmetic, but they didn't directly make your character better, but allowed your character to do more things and, basically, form bigger groups. There was personal gear, and some variations in it, but there wasn't a strict "gear progression". There was PvE and PvP, plenty of exploration. And for the entire time I was involved with it, they had a F2P model that had replaced their initial subscription model in its entirety.

 

(Puzzle Pirates, if anyone cares; it's still around, though I haven't touched it in years)

[Aowin]

Whether many of us can agree or not, there was a lot of excess and unnecessary clutter in this MMO. Too many currencies. Too many different gear sets. Nothing was truly adequately explained for newcomers. Sure, veterans knew to save up their comms for PvP gear the moment they hit the level cap or knew to save common crystals for entry-level PvE gear rather than choosing the worthless low level gear that would be worthless after a level or two.

 

No one except veterans knew that though. Veterans, as well as BioWare, took for granted that we had years of knowledge and experience by playing the game and seeing these systems evolve so it seemed "easy" for us. That's not the case for those not familiar with SWTOR or MMOs in general. SWTOR had a lot of clutter, and Galactic Command cut down on it considerably.

 

BioWare already commented in today's Producer Live Stream that they aren't going to change any aspects of RNG for quite some time. They want to see the system in action and want to know how it impacts gear distribution over a period of months. For some of you, that might not be soon enough. Ultimately, it's up to each and every one of us to determine how to spend our time and whether this game is worth it to us or not.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Whether many of us can agree or not, there was a lot of excess and unnecessary clutter in this MMO. Too many currencies. Too many different gear sets. Nothing was truly adequately explained for newcomers. Sure, veterans knew to save up their comms for PvP gear the moment they hit the level cap or knew to save common crystals for entry-level PvE gear rather than choosing the worthless low level gear that would be worthless after a level or two.

 

No one except veterans knew that though. Veterans, as well as BioWare, took for granted that we had years of knowledge and experience by playing the game and seeing these systems evolve so it seemed "easy" for us. That's not the case for those not familiar with SWTOR or MMOs in general. SWTOR had a lot of clutter, and Galactic Command cut down on it considerably.

 

BioWare already commented in today's Producer Live Stream that they aren't going to change any aspects of RNG for quite some time. They want to see the system in action and want to know how it impacts gear distribution over a period of months. For some of you, that might not be soon enough. Ultimately, it's up to each and every one of us to determine how to spend our time and whether this game is worth it to us or not.

 

In other words - "Sorry I was wrong and everyone else was right".

[ivanhedgehog]

One thing they could do, since ops are now "expired" content, is remove weekly lockouts so we can do them like pvp wz's. allow us to do them multiple times a week, it isnt like they drop gear or anything.

[Aowin]

In other words - "Sorry I was wrong and everyone else was right".

 

Whether you like it or not, Galactic Command was necessary for the longevity of this game. There is push back for the moment, but eventually it will subside and folks, like yourself, will adapt. Otherwise, you will leave and look for an experience that better fits your philosophy of an "MMO." This thread is still as relevant now as it was after the Producer Live Stream. BioWare is all in on Galactic Command and RNG. They are not going to revert it and are curious to see how the game develops in the coming months.

[Aowin]

One thing they could do, since ops are now "expired" content, is remove weekly lockouts so we can do them like pvp wz's. allow us to do them multiple times a week, it isnt like they drop gear or anything.

 

The obvious issue with this is there would need to be a re-balancing of the loot that does drop (schematics and rare materials) as well as lowering the amount of CXP players can obtain in an operation. The last thing BioWare wants to do is create a system in which operations are vastly superior to grinding CXP over everything else. That would largely undermine everything they are trying to achieve with Galactic Command.

[peter_plankskull]

Whether you like it or not, Galactic Command was necessary for the longevity of this game. There is push back for the moment, but eventually it will subside and folks, like yourself, will adapt. Otherwise, you will leave and look for an experience that better fits your philosophy of an "MMO." This thread is still as relevant now as it was after the Producer Live Stream. BioWare is all in on Galactic Command and RNG. They are not going to revert it and are curious to see how the game develops in the coming months.

 

Why would it suddenly be needed to change the game? We lasted almost 5 years with the previous gearing system and we never had a uprising in surge of outcry like we have now as of late. Even you yourself can not properly defend this system and just hinging on the hope that enough people get it over it or the game will die.

[curulz]

Whether you like it or not, Galactic Command was necessary for the longevity of this game.

 

So for sake of argument, how long do you believe the game would have been viable if they did not introduce GC and/or RNG? If they had left PVP stats/comms alone, and kept PVE gear dropping from ops bosses?

[Aowin]

Why would it suddenly be needed to change the game? We lasted almost 5 years with the previous gearing system and we never had a uprising in surge of outcry like we have now as of late. Even you yourself can not properly defend this system and just hinging on the hope that enough people get it over it or the game will die.

 

For the past five years the game has had a steady decline in subscribers with a small bump in activity with the conversion to F2P. Otherwise, the various expansions the game has had were ineffective at turning the tide of what has been an inevitable downward spiral in population. KOTFE was a radical attempt to revert that trend and BioWare had mixed results. KOTET is the next step in trying to stop the bleeding and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term community.

 

If expansions such as ROTHC and SOR were so successful financially and a great benefit to the game in terms of player retention, BioWare would never have stopped producing those kinds of expansions.

[eartharioch]

There is push back for the moment, but eventually it will subside and folks, like yourself, will adapt. Otherwise, you will leave and look for an experience that better fits your philosophy of an "MMO."

I'm guessing that "pushback" will start drying up in a few weeks when the subscriptions of "adapting" players end and we can no longer post on these forums...Steam winter sale + my large backlog of unplayed games (as well as lifetime TSW sub) pretty much guarantees that. OTOH, EA/BW's Q3 results should be ready around that time, so maybe there will actually be a reason not to wait until I can get my free week of play time off somebody's referral link after Q4.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Whether you like it or not, Galactic Command was necessary for the longevity of this game. There is push back for the moment, but eventually it will subside and folks, like yourself, will adapt. Otherwise, you will leave and look for an experience that better fits your philosophy of an "MMO." This thread is still as relevant now as it was after the Producer Live Stream. BioWare is all in on Galactic Command and RNG. They are not going to revert it and are curious to see how the game develops in the coming months.

 

Funny the only stats we have on player numbers don't agree but keep deluding yourself and trolling the thread you created by all means.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

For the past five years the game has had a steady decline in subscribers with a small bump in activity with the conversion to F2P. Otherwise, the various expansions the game has had were ineffective at turning the tide of what has been an inevitable downward spiral in population. KOTFE was a radical attempt to revert that trend and BioWare had mixed results. KOTET is the next step in trying to stop the bleeding and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term community.

 

If expansions such as ROTHC and SOR were so successful financially and a great benefit to the game in terms of player retention, BioWare would never have stopped producing those kinds of expansions.

 

Yet they stated they had the highest bump in subs for the launch financial period of 4.0 so you can't even get your story straight on such a simple part of your argument as that.

 

You seem to be getting rather desperate and all these posts you make seem nothing more than clickbait for some reason. Referral link attention perhaps.

[Aowin]

So for sake of argument, how long do you believe the game would have been viable if they did not introduce GC and/or RNG? If they had left PVP stats/comms alone, and kept PVE gear dropping from ops bosses?

 

Had BioWare just left things as they were in 4.0, the community would have continued to shrink and eventually there would only be a small, dedicated core left for the game. Obviously, Lucasfilm, EA, and BioWare have major expectations for this MMO. They aren't just interested in supporting a small community, thus change was inevitable. Like any rational business, they continue to to try and appeal to a wider audience to continue to grow and flourish.

[Morrolan]

For the past five years the game has had a steady decline in subscribers with a small bump in activity with the conversion to F2P. Otherwise, the various expansions the game has had were ineffective at turning the tide of what has been an inevitable downward spiral in population. KOTFE was a radical attempt to revert that trend and BioWare had mixed results. KOTET is the next step in trying to stop the bleeding and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term community.

 

You're saying people only quit the game due to confusing end game options? Thats just a complete rewrite of history. Bioware's endgame gearing options were easy to understand, if you couldn't come to grips with them quite quickly then I'd be careful cause you might accidentally stop breathing. GW2 eg. has far far more confusing end game options than swtor and is still quite successful. Whats also funny is that the plethora of stuff now at level 70 is actually more complex overall than it was before.

 

The fact is PvE has declined due to lack of content for all players and PvP has seen a decline due to complete mis-management.

 

Even if they wanted to make end game simpler for new players they could have replaced the PvE token system with GC and left drops as they are. The fact is they have done it the way they did to make it a long grind for everyone to try and keep people in the game with minimal new content.

[peter_plankskull]

Had BioWare just left things as they were in 4.0, the community would have continued to shrink and eventually there would only be a small, dedicated core left for the game. Obviously, Lucasfilm, EA, and BioWare have major expectations for this MMO. They aren't just interested in supporting a small community, thus change was inevitable. Like any rational business, they continue to to try and appeal to a wider audience to continue to grow and flourish.

 

The slow decline of the game was due to far more things than something as simple as gearing... SWTOR has always had a large appeal factor, but it's never had a retaining factor to keep players invested due to how bad the lack of content is. Literally the only content that's had a worthwhile update was.... PVP... and story. Ill admit I loved the story, but this RNG grind is ridiculous. There should be actual solid worth while content to do while being geared up simultaneously, a show of reward to look back on for the good times we enjoyed, not forced to regrind old content for good gear.

[JennyFlynn]

For the past five years the game has had a steady decline in subscribers with a small bump in activity with the conversion to F2P. Otherwise, the various expansions the game has had were ineffective at turning the tide of what has been an inevitable downward spiral in population. KOTFE was a radical attempt to revert that trend and BioWare had mixed results. KOTET is the next step in trying to stop the bleeding and build a sustainable, healthy, long-term community.

 

If expansions such as ROTHC and SOR were so successful financially and a great benefit to the game in terms of player retention, BioWare would never have stopped producing those kinds of expansions.

 

I'm sorry but I highly doubt gearing pre 5.0 was a big, or even any kind of reason for a player to quit. Lack of content, deviation from their original design and an unwillingness to continue investing in their game the way they did with the base game, that's what has caused a decline. Along with the general turn over you tend to see in MMO's. Had they continued on pumping out content the way they did for the base game (ie; the many different story arcs, the ops, the flashpoints etc) and kept that pace up all the way until now without minimizing their own effort.. I'd bet the subscriber numbers would be a lot higher.