RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[Aowin]

Do you realize that this sentence makes no sense? It's like saying that if it wasn't for football you wouldn't be playing football today. FYI, there's a really good comedy sketch from the '80s that makes that point exactly...I can send you a link to it, if you'd like. And I don't know that I'd call the mid-late '90s (when MMORPGs started) "the early days of the internet" -- even the web had been around for years by that time, and the internet predates the web.

 

I get that you don't think that there's anything wrong with gear-based PVP, but don't try to ignore the long history of skill-based PVP games just because they weren't all on "The Internet". Also, do realize that Doom (and other LAN-party) games used IP -- the Internet Protocol, which is the same network protocol we are using today. They weren't *massive*, but fyi swtor ranked pvp is 4x4, so eight players -- not exactly a huge leap from four player death matches from the early 90s.

 

I highly encourage you to look at games such as DAoC, SWG, ESO, DO, GW2, and others that truly pushed the boundaries with regard to "PvP." No, I'm not referring to instanced-based 4v4 arenas that WoW stole from competitive multiplayer games, like DOOM, QUAKE, and Unreal Tournament. I'm referring to the "massively multiplayer" PvP that has only been possible in MMOs and where it began decades ago.

 

You can continue disregarding the history of MMOs and how this genre has impacted every other genre since (especially after WoW released), but you do yourself a massive disservice.

 

Regardless, gear matters. Galactic Command matters. It impacts all of us. That's not going to change.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I don't think you could pay me enough. This poor guy gets it from both sides - his bosses are griping him to deal with us, and we're griping him to deal with his bosses. No thanks.

 

lol if it'd work i'd send him a mail and ask if they need a person to reply on forums for them. i do neeed a job lol

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Aowin, please for the love of bioware, explain how the f is this inclusive. after 63 pages i still fail to see this. like in small simple words lol

[Jadescythe]

Aowin, please for the love of bioware, explain how the f is this inclusive. after 63 pages i still fail to see this. like in small simple words lol

 

It's inclusive because all players can participate regardless of their gameplay preferences. Previously, you were forced into certain areas of the game to obtain statted gear. Now you can basically do any content to get gear. So, yes, "anyone" could get all the gear before, but only by doing content they were not interested in.

[Quraswren]

Regardless, gear matters.

 

It does and thats why RNG gearing though a casino like loot crate doesn't work all that well. Far too often are you denied gear. Combine that with the massive grind just to get the "option" of gear and more problems just arise because gear does matter.

 

Galactic Command matters.

Not really. You could totally scrap GC and I doubt there would be as much uproar as it being implemented has caused.

[Vember]

Aowin, please for the love of bioware, explain how the f is this inclusive. after 63 pages i still fail to see this. like in small simple words lol

 

It's pretty clear....

[Aowin]

Aowin, please for the love of bioware, explain how the f is this inclusive. after 63 pages i still fail to see this. like in small simple words lol

 

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they never could before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Aowin

[Hichitsuki-hime]

It's inclusive because all players can participate regardless of their gameplay preferences. Previously, you were forced into certain areas of the game to obtain statted gear. Now you can basically do any content to get gear. So, yes, "anyone" could get all the gear before, but only by doing content they were not interested in.

 

but like..... it still remains the same in the way that if newbies want to get their CXP from raids then they need to get into a group. and not everyone will happily take them because now it's more fast paced. and just. i don't get this ./feelz like retard:eek::eek: i swear, i'm NOT trying to troll >.>

[Hichitsuki-hime]

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they could never before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

okay, that makes sense. and what exactly do the rest of us get out of this exactly? i get that they're trying to make game more appealing to new players, but come on, it makes me feel like we vets are being pushed to the side. like why can't we have GC as a supplementary new thing to the already existing way? 0.o

[Jadescythe]

but like..... it still remains the same in the way that if newbies want to get their CXP from raids then they need to get into a group. and not everyone will happily take them because now it's more fast paced. and just. i don't get this ./feelz like retard:eek::eek: i swear, i'm NOT trying to troll >.>

 

I agree, in terms of new players this system is just as bad or worse if they were interested in raiding. But ultimately, SM raids are bolstered so their gear doesn't matter. There is no reason to kick anyone based on gear since you will be bolstered to a normal level no matter what. But if players have no knowledge of class mechanics or fight mechanics, then they will still do poorly. It will always require new players to use the vast amount of resources from the community to L2P.

[Quraswren]

It's inclusive because all players can participate regardless of their gameplay preferences. Previously, you were forced into certain areas of the game to obtain statted gear. Now you can basically do any content to get gear. So, yes, "anyone" could get all the gear before, but only by doing content they were not interested in.

 

So where it was do operations or fall behind. It's now do PVP or fall behind.

 

Still doing content you might not like but its the best way to get gear . However, in trying to be inclusive, this time there is no crystal gear you can get by doing all content you want to help you catch up and get decent gear fast . Plus, no pug group you could ever get into that could help you with even better gear even when its simple things like ev and KP.

 

Sound about right?

Edited December 8, 2016 by Quraswren

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I agree, in terms of new players this system is just as bad or worse if they were interested in raiding. But ultimately, SM raids are bolstered so their gear doesn't matter. There is no reason to kick anyone based on gear since you will be bolstered to a normal level no matter what. But if players have no knowledge of class mechanics or fight mechanics, then they will still do poorly. It will always require new players to use the vast amount of resources from the community to L2P.

 

##thank you BW for character boosts for people who don't know how to play them lol. bottom line, this grind makes me want to go throw up:eek::eek:

[Hichitsuki-hime]

So where it was do operations or fall behind. It's now do PVP or fall behind.

 

Still doing content you might not like but its the best way to get gear . However, in trying to be inclusive, this time there is no crystal gear you can get by doing all content you want to help you catch up and get decent gear fast . Plus, no pug group you could ever get into that could help you with even better gear even when its simple things like ev and KP.

 

Sound about right?

 

yup sound about exactly that:D:D:D

[BoySaber]

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they never could before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

This is what Galactic Command is good for. All of what you listed does not require RNG, nor is it perfect for SWTOR as stated in the title of this topic.

Galactic Command = Player Friendly (Regardless if they are Newcomers or not)

RNG = Player Hostile (Regardless if they are Newcomers or not)

Galactic Command = good for everyone to play game together the way we love it and be rewarded for it.

RNG = Don't play Galactic Command.

 

It directly opposes each other, and is why it fails to be good combination.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

This is what Galactic Command is good for. All of what you listed does not require RNG, nor is it perfect for SWTOR as stated in the title of this topic.

Galactic Command = Player Friendly (Regardless if they are Newcomers or not)

RNG = Player Hostile (Regardless if they are Newcomers or not)

Galactic Command = good for everyone to play game together the way we love it and be rewarded for it.

RNG = Don't play Galactic Command.

 

It directly opposes each other, and is why it fails to be good combination.

you forgot: grind too long, CXP rewards too small, esp in pve:D:D:D

[Quraswren]

-Newcomers no longer have to rely on raiders for help to get gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to look through twenty different vendors for gear.

-Newcomers no longer have to collect half a dozen different currencies for gear.

-Newcomers can play any content they want and still get gear.

-Newcomers will now have the opportunity to try content they never could before due to not having the required gear.

 

The list goes on and on.

 

You need to add: JUST A CHANCE AT GEAR

 

Because we all know, every gamer in swtor only has a chance at gear now. It is not guaranteed. The less gear a new comer has the worse they will do in PVE and PVP. That isn't conducive to player retention.

[Jadescythe]

So where it was do operations or fall behind. It's now do PVP or fall behind.

 

Still doing content you might not like but its the best way to get gear . However, in trying to be inclusive, this time there is no crystal gear you can get by doing all content you want to help you catch up and get decent gear fast . Plus, no pug group you could ever get into that could help you with even better gear even when its simple things like ev and KP.

 

Sound about right?

 

I think everyone agrees there are improvement that can be made to the system, even the white knights. Most of this thread comes down to whether you believe BW is actually going to act on the needed changes. I personally don't believe that they will ever adapt the system to be as friendly as it was in KotFE, but I also tend to agree with people who are happy about gear being accessible to a wider population. This game isn't about NiM raids or ranked PvP. They exist, but it is clearly trying to cater to a casual audience and the GC system was intended to do that. They apparently just didn't realize that casual players aren't going to grind for 25 years for the chance to gear a single character.

[Aowin]

okay, that makes sense. and what exactly do the rest of us get out of this exactly? i get that they're trying to make game more appealing to new players, but come on, it makes me feel like we vets are being pushed to the side. like why can't we have GC as a supplementary new thing to the already existing way? 0.o

 

As I said before, it's called "evening the playing field." You find the system to be detrimental because it makes newcomers more equal with you than before. The problem here is ultimately some veterans don't want the system to be fair or equal. They do not care at all if newcomers have an accessible experience or not. The fact that veterans are "forced" to be more equal with newcomers is unsettling for some of you.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

I think everyone agrees there are improvement that can be made to the system, even the white knights. Most of this thread comes down to whether you believe BW is actually going to act on the needed changes. I personally don't believe that they will ever adapt the system to be as friendly as it was in KotFE, but I also tend to agree with people who are happy about gear being accessible to a wider population. This game isn't about NiM raids or ranked PvP. They exist, but it is clearly trying to cater to a casual audience and the GC system was intended to do that. They apparently just didn't realize that casual players aren't going to grind for 25 years for the chance to gear a single character.

nah, atm we just tentatively wait on them to change things and hope that they don't make it somehow even worse when they do eventually change things:D:D:D

[Hichitsuki-hime]

As I said before, it's called "evening the playing field." You find the system to be detrimental because it makes newcomers more equal with you than before. The problem here is ultimately some veterans don't want the system to be fair or equal. They do not care at all if newcomers have an accessible experience or not. The fact that veterans are "forced" to be more equal with newcomers is unsettling for some of you.

 

and once again you are putting words in my mouth. it's not about i'm worried that the casual next door has a chance to get same gear as me lol. i'm raging that not only this grind takes for f***ing ever, but these boxes i grind for don't even guarantee even a random piece of gear that is a damn upgrade for me.

u have to understand this. when we talk about gear, me (and i'm sure most of the other vets too), we don't give a flying f*** about how slow or fast people out side of our team/guild/friendlist gear. it doesn't matter how fast newbies gear up unless it's newbies we know. i know it sounds rude or wutever, but it's not just us wanting that gear to be restricted to us. none such thing. we are just worried about how random it is atm and how long it will take to get a min maxed set of top tier gear.

and again i'm not saying it because i want it FIVE MINUTES AGO DAMN IT, but just not half a year from now. because yes, my RNG does suck that much:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[eartharioch]

I highly encourage you to look at games such as DAoC, SWG, ESO, DO, GW2, and others that truly pushed the boundaries with regard to "PvP." No, I'm not referring to instanced-based 4v4 arenas that WoW stole from competitive multiplayer games, like DOOM, QUAKE, and Unreal Tournament. I'm referring to the "massively multiplayer" PvP that has only been possible in MMOs and where it began decades ago.

We're talking swtor here, and other than the first year or so, Open-World PVP hasn't really been a thing. I did OWPVP during that first year, and while gear was important, it wasn't usually game breaking, and players often negotiated terms of engagement before committing time to major battles (which didn't actually give any rewards). But with instanced PVP, BW sets the rules (limited terrain/objectives, fixed number of players, fixed time, rewards based on performance, etc.), so it's much more important to have the sides as balanced as possible, which has from 1.x -4.x meant increasing stability in gear/bolster and less time to get to "PVP BiS". So in short, it's not fair for you to say "RNG good" for small-team-size instanced PVP by comparing it to *actually* massive open world PVP. TBH, I'm not really familiar with those games, but my understanding is that they support much larger-scale battles, and [mathematically], the more players in a battle, the less any individuals' gear should be outcome-determinative.

 

Regardless, gear matters. Galactic Command matters. It impacts all of us. That's not going to change.

But *how* it impacts us can change. Swtor started out with a barely-worse-than-GC gearing system and made solid improvements over the years, all of which have been undone. I 100% don't care that that BW *added* GC (there have been a few, but not many, players that want to keep "scrubs" away from BiS gear, but I am not in that camp). I care that BW took away WZ comm (low-end) set bonus gear and Operation Token (high-end) set bonus gear. Operations (and flashpoints) had "better than crystal" gear drops, and avid PVPers quickly maxed out PVP gear and had nothing to spend comms on other than consumables and vanity items, so if BW wants to move all that stuff into Command Crates instead of dropping it directly (or allowing comm/crystal vendors), and if casuals who don't ever run ops or pvp now have even a small chance at better gear, I'm totally cool with that. I just don't want them making it *harder* for the dedicated players to get the gear necessary for high-end (ranked pvp and hm/nim ops) content, especially when it's *currently* all several-years-old content. If BW had dropped a new operation with this, with an explicit caveat that the new gear system was necessary to make the op relevant enough to justify development time/effort/money, I think it would have gone over if not well than at least better.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

*snip*

But *how* it impacts us can change. Swtor started out with a barely-worse-than-GC gearing system and made solid improvements over the years, all of which have been undone. I 100% don't care that that BW *added* GC (there have been a few, but not many, players that want to keep "scrubs" away from BiS gear, but I am not in that camp). I care that BW took away WZ comm (low-end) set bonus gear and Operation Token (high-end) set bonus gear. Operations (and flashpoints) had "better than crystal" gear drops, and avid PVPers quickly maxed out PVP gear and had nothing to spend comms on other than consumables and vanity items, so if BW wants to move all that stuff into Command Crates instead of dropping it directly (or allowing comm/crystal vendors), and if casuals who don't ever run ops or pvp now have even a small chance at better gear, I'm totally cool with that. I just don't want them making it *harder* for the dedicated players to get the gear necessary for high-end (ranked pvp and hm/nim ops) content, especially when it's *currently* all several-years-old content. If BW had dropped a new operation with this, with an explicit caveat that the new gear system was necessary to make the op relevant enough to justify development time/effort/money, I think it would have gone over if not well than at least better.

this here. that is exactly what i'd like to have explained. like why can't both systems exist so people can choose what suits them best?

[BoySaber]

As I said before, it's called "evening the playing field." You find the system to be detrimental because it makes newcomers more equal with you than before. The problem here is ultimately some veterans don't want the system to be fair or equal. They do not care at all if newcomers have an accessible experience or not. The fact that veterans are "forced" to be more equal with newcomers is unsettling for some of you.

 

Newcomers will play for story not RNG, because this is Star Wars. Did not meet any player choosing this game for RNG grind (or any other game). If they chose to play game for gear and not for story or other elements, then Star Wars does not matter in the game title, they will not chose this game, again, because of the RNG (Pay to RNG). They will seek game where default attack cannot equal you with "veteran player" where gearing makes sense.

 

There is no equalization of players. In my guild for example people who use to play most difficult things together will no longer be able to do so. RNG will gear them at different rate or not gear them at all for that content no matter how equal they play activities at the start, the one that gets no gear will not be able to follow buddy into more difficult content, and they will have to stop playing that aspect of the game together, despite of everything doing equal. And I thought that Galactic Command is a new Group FInder to help us stay together. But with RNG into it, it will do worse than old school Group Finder.

Edited December 8, 2016 by BoySaber

[Hichitsuki-hime]

Newcomers will play for story not RNG, because this is Star Wars. Did not meet any player choosing this game for RNG grind (or any other game). If they chose to play game for gear and not for story or other elements, then Star Wars does not matter in the game title, they will not chose this game, again, because of the RNG (Pay to RNG). They will seek game where default attack cannot equal you with "veteran player" where gearing makes sense.

 

There is no equalization of players. In my guild for example people who use to play most difficult things together will no longer be able to do so. RNG will gear them at different rate or not gear them at all for that content no matter how equal they play activities at the start, the one that gets no gear will not be able to follow buddy into more difficult content, and they will have to stop playing that aspect of the game together, despite of everything doing equal.

 

thing is in very basic theory if everyone has a CHANCE to get gear, it's KINDA SORTA equal. but on paper only. because RNG treats everyone differently and it creates more problems than it's worth. we can agree that yes GC let's newbies grind gear slowly......... but couldn't they already do that trough heroics and flashpoints and all things that awarded comms? yes they could.

[Jadescythe]

this here. that is exactly what i'd like to have explained. like why can't both systems exist so people can choose what suits them best?

 

Because BW doesn't WANT you to gear as quickly as you did before. The intention is to slow the gear process down so that players have "more" to do with less content. I would tend to agree that KotFE gearing was way too fast, but they seem to have hit the breaks a bit too hard with how long galactic command will take to gear up.