RNG is perfect for SWTOR and I'll explain why.

[peter_plankskull]

PvP is still in the game. Better gear still exists, so you are handicapped if other players have better RNG than you.

 

While I do agree that the journey should be the main focus here, I also believe that once the journey is complete there should be something to show for it. IE a gear or something cosmetic, to show you have conquered the hardest challenges in the game. Of course that won't stop him from defending the studio at all costs... much like Aowin...

[Alssaran]

You're comparing one RNG to another, while praising the first and decrying the second.

 

The first and the second RNG aspects were entirely different. The first one was something the players could influence with a set of rules designed to distribute gear fairly. "One token per player." Six of eight players would get a gear set token during every operation. And you could do the same (easy) operation multiple times a week in order to have multiple set tokens per character each week.

 

The current RNG system is entirely out of your hands. You have no influence over how many players get a set item. You could go twenty crates (twenty hours) without ever getting a single piece. At all.

 

While the old system was also relying on a very minor amount of RNG, the advantages of having mitigating possibilities was better than this non-influence based grind. Guilds could pull their members through ops and give them the dropping tokens. A "One per player" rule would even out distribution.

 

That's not the case anymore. Bioware decides how many sets are handed out to how many players. Period. Do you think that's coded to be in your favour?

Edited December 6, 2016 by Alssaran

[peter_plankskull]

You're comparing one RNG to another, while praising the first and decrying the second.

 

The first version of the RNG is far superior that there was some element of control involved, IE you can pick what bosses you want, not to mention if you had good friends or a good guild you can actually distribute the gear granting 100% control of what you wanted to do. No one can do that with 5.0 with the galactic command crates.

[peter_plankskull]

The first and the second RNG aspects were entirely different. The first one was something the players could influence with a set of rules designed to distribute gear fairly. "One token per player." Six of eight players would get a gear set token during every operation. And you could do the same (easy) operation multiple times a week in order to have multiple set tokens per character each week.

 

The current RNG system is entirely out of your hands. You have no influence over how many players get a set item. You could go twenty crates (twenty hours) without ever getting a single piece. At all.

 

While the old system was also relying on a very minor amount of RNG, the advantages of having mitigating possibilities was better than this non-influence based grind. Guilds could pull their members through ops and give them the dropping tokens. A "One per player" rule would even out distribution.

 

That's not the case anymore. Bioware decides how many sets are handed out to how many players. Period. Do you think that's coded to be in your favour?

 

Tempted to just take down my old comment and have this in its stead, this is 200% better .

[DarthWoad]

You're comparing one RNG to another, while praising the first and decrying the second.

 

Well no. People know what gear drops from what bosses. If your raid group is gearing up, you kill that boss and someone gets the piece, or if people are helping you gear up, then you get that piece 100%. That's what was better, because it gave you the option.

 

/roll is RNG yes, but you know exactly where the gear drops, which is completely different to the RNG boxes. There is no other option to get that gear with RNG boxes. Hope you understand where i'm coming from with this

[Vember]

While I do agree that the journey should be the main focus here, I also believe that once the journey is complete there should be something to show for it. IE a gear or something cosmetic, to show you have conquered the hardest challenges in the game. Of course that won't stop him from defending the studio at all costs... much like Aowin...

 

Blind hate is just as bad as blind fanboyism, keep that in mind. I like the new system, hence I defend it, I don't always defend the studio. There are a lot of changes I'd make, with cxp and the galactic command system specifically. That being said, I feel all the butthurt in the force this has stirred up is largely overblown, because, as I said, a lot of you act as if you won't have any gear if it's not 230 or better.

 

Getting 228's to help you along until you do get some set pieces from the crates is simple, and, I would think, the smart thing to do.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vember

[RagnarAugustus]

I support this new system if they put the OPS gear vendors back on the fleets and let the OPS bosses drop the same unassembled items and random pieces they always have. Then everyone is happy.

I wouldn't go as far as to say I'd support the new system, but for me if Ops bosses dropped unassembled tokens with known loot tables again so I could properly gear for my HM\NM progression raid group in a timely fashion and CXP became legacy wide instead of individual toon based I could live with it. That would allow the non-raiding PVE guys to have a non-operations minigame to gear up with and we raiders aren't leaving SWTOR in droves because we can't gear for raids.

 

Regarding the "inclusiveness" aspect from the OP's Tolstoy length missive, that is nothing more than laziness, it's a bunch of special snowflakes thinking that they don't have to put in the same time and effort to learn something as everyone else. No matter what you do in life there is always a learning curve, and it doesn't matter if it's on the job or in game. If you don't know something take the initiative and read the darn codex, ask a guildie, friend, or post your question in general chat- it's not hard and talking to people in an MMO will actually greatly increase the new player's enjoyment of the game when they make friends and can experience Flashpoints, Operations, and PVP with people they know and like. First and foremost this is an MMO and there's still a huge amount of content locked behind group mechanics which these new guys won't experience if they can just chug along as solo players since they never spoke to anyone. I can say this with confidence because I was solo until level 55 when I decided to answer a request for a healer in an SM OP posted in general chat. I was amazed at what i missed until I interacted with my fellow players and have as a result of that raid met many great friends in the guild that asked me to join after that raid. Also inclusiveness doesn't explain bad mechanics like why Ops gear no longer drops from bosses, or why CXP isn't legacy based.

[Jadescythe]

You're comparing one RNG to another, while praising the first and decrying the second.

 

If you took a group through an operation 8 times, each member will have obtained every piece in that operation. Even if you didn't get a piece during one run, you knew that your efforts got someone something. You could run an operation 8 times in the galactic command system and have everyone walk away with nothing. For some people that only ran PUGs, the systems are not so different, but most consistent raiders formed a team to complete the content regularly, especially at the harder difficulty levels where coordination was key.

[Vember]

The first and the second RNG aspects were entirely different.

 

If you had a dedicated raid guild that was willing to take the time to gear your character out, then yes.

 

If not, then no.

[Alloou]

It's good enough for everything but NiM stuff to my understanding, as that requires 230.

 

Or they implement this GC grind to divert people's attention from the real issue that is the really thin content of this new expansion?

 

Just some food for thought.

[Jadescythe]

If you had a dedicated raid guild that was willing to take the time to gear your character out, then yes.

 

If not, then no.

 

This is the key point though. It was up to the player to decide if RNG was good enough or if taking gearing into their own hands was a better option. BW has changed the system to take that option away from players.

[Vember]

Or they implement this GC grind to divert people's attention from the real issue that is the really thin content of this new expansion?

 

Just some food for thought.

 

Oh I completely agree. I have posted many times that I wish we'd get a WoW or EQ style expansion. Finding new and "exciting" ways to reuse old content is getting tiresome.

[peter_plankskull]

Blind hate is just as bad as blind fanboyism, keep that in mind. I like the new system, hence I defend it, I don't always defend the studio. There are a lot of changes I'd make, with cxp and the galactic command system specifically. That being said, I feel all the butthurt in the force this has stirred up is largely overblown, because, as I said, a lot of you act as if you won't have any gear if it's not 230 or better.

 

I agree, but Andryah gets away with making off comments and remarks to other people while when you say the slightest thing about the studio development team and its a infraction...

 

Ill admit, I like the actual idea of the galactic command system and it's pretty good, but Bioware completely destroyed the design with having such a grind on a per character basis and having to go through purely RNG methods to gear. There should of been a far more solid ground to get set bonus gear, IE every 5 levels you get a token of your choice to spend on from a vendor to get a set piece bonus. I actually... really....really enjoyed the system at first and felt part of the game was revitalized with this system, I was rewarded for everything in play and killing that elite mob in the far distance didn't seem like a bother. However then they had to go with the knee jerk reaction and nerf it...They have good ideas but there execution of them is always severely flawed, such as veteran KOTET, it was nice to have a increase in difficulty, but it's like uprisings, no new mechanics, just massive damage and health boxes to tear down.

[Vember]

This is the key point though. It was up to the player to decide if RNG was good enough or if taking gearing into their own hands was a better option. BW has changed the system to take that option away from players.

 

Well, yes and no. Now the player can work toward that doing everything in the game, instead of just focusing on raids and guild events. The difference between us is that I see the upside to this, while many of you refuse to. I understand the RNG hate for loot boxes, and I have advocated that they make the odds a bit better than they are.

[ludoviccb]

You're comparing one RNG to another, while praising the first and decrying the second.

 

In the raid group that I was part of, we had a list of pieces needed, we looked at gear drop from the operation, we selected an operation to do, we allocated the pieces and we killed the bosses and gave the gear as planned. There was no RNG. If we wanted to gear up somone new, we took 1 evening and he was in full 220 gear. There is no way that someone can get in full tier 2 gear in 1 night of grind.

 

Also, no mather what, when we killed a boss, there would always be 1 or 2 token so someone will always get some token when you kill a boss. There is no guarante of such progression with the CXP, there is a tread about people with bad luck for those RNG rolls.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

What's wrong with 228's? For the long winded individual above me, 228's are easy to get, augment, and jump right into pvp with.

 

You people (read: snowflakes) act as if you won't have any gear at all unless it comes from a crate. The sheer volume of crying over this is ludicrous.

 

those 228s... i assume u mean those crappy green things that see every now and then in the box.... well.... thing is, they're worse than my augmented 224s.... soooooooooo they're kinda useles, to me at least. and that long winded individual above? he's 100% correct.:eek:

[Vember]

In the raid group that I was part of, we had a list of pieces needed, we looked at gear drop from the operation, we selected an operation to do, we allocated the pieces and we killed the bosses and gave the gear as planned. There was no RNG. If we wanted to gear up somone new, we took 1 evening and he was in full 220 gear. There is no way that someone can get in full tier 2 gear in 1 night of grind.

 

Also, no mather what, when we killed a boss, there would always be 1 or 2 token so someone will always get some token when you kill a boss. There is no guarante of such progression with the CXP, there is a tread about people with bad luck for those RNG rolls.

 

They should have done a gear exchange instead of disintegration, and made the drop rates better. Or they should, at least, if this is the system they're going to go with. In the end, if the crates are done right, this could be way better for the game. We won't all agree on what's right or how they should do it, and obviously it isn't perfect in it's current iteration, but I think it could work with some tweaks.

[peter_plankskull]

those 228s... i assume u mean those crappy green things that see every now and then in the box.... well.... thing is, they're worse than my augmented 224s.... soooooooooo they're kinda useles, to me at least. and that long winded individual above? he's 100% correct.:eek:

 

There's the green dropped ones you get from command crates, and the crafted purple 228 which he is probably referring too.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

average player? needs the buffer of better gear to do anything other then story content. they NEED that margin for error. and there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what makes people want to progress through harder content. its not the gear. its sense of accomplishment and in case of ops - teamwork paired with accomplishment. gear? is means to an end.

 

true, but we're talking about content we already know like back of our hand, so if doesn't at least give shinies ? then what's the point? cause aside from nim it's boring as f*** anyway lol:D:D

[Hichitsuki-hime]

There's the green dropped ones you get from command crates, and the crafted purple 228 which he is probably referring too.

 

yeah.... about those....... seee... i think i misplaced my millions of $$

[Alssaran]

If you had a dedicated raid guild that was willing to take the time to gear your character out, then yes.

 

If not, then no.

 

False. I never had a dedicated raid guild during 4.0 (I did most of my raiding in 2.X and 3.X), but the "One piece per character" rule was a normal approach on The Progenitor. I mostly pugged with two of my characters, but my Sentinel was geared out in set bonus gear in three weeks.

 

The assumption that loot distribution influence needed a raid guild is false.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

They should have done a gear exchange instead of disintegration, and made the drop rates better. Or they should, at least, if this is the system they're going to go with. In the end, if the crates are done right, this could be way better for the game. We won't all agree on what's right or how they should do it, and obviously it isn't perfect in it's current iteration, but I think it could work with some tweaks.

 

they should at least respond every now and then .... for starters >.> :eek:

[psandak]

You are descirbing bad luck with a pug raid group. Here is the scenario had by my teams.

 

1. Get into a raid group
   
2. group spends many hours over the course of a few weeks to take down a particular raid boss
   
3. boss finally goes down
   
4. loot is distributed
   
5. Everyone rolls on set gear (you may have gotten some not set gear drop for you). winner gets piece
   
6. the next time it is still challenging to take that boss down but the team wins
   
7. loot is distributed
   
8. winner of previous roll sits on this and team rolls (Again you may get non set piece)
   
9. the next boss is downed this time as well
   
10. same as above
    

 

Team keeps track to amke sure everyone is getting gear. You may go the week without a set drop if we only ran one operations, but you may still be getting other drops of non set. If one of the set drops was implant/relic/MH, crafter for group takes it to RE and then group uses the mat drops and crafts the items for entire group as needed

 

So different experience when you deal with a community of players vs everyone for themselves. Also, the non set drops still gave gear that you could use for alts, or enhancements/mods etc.

 

And even with a consistent raid group tracking who has what, I have had occasion where I did not get any loot for two or more months. It was a running gag when this happened that I or someone else would be the last person to get loot because luck was so bad.

[Hichitsuki-hime]

False. I never had a dedicated raid guild during 4.0 (I did most of my raiding in 2.X and 3.X), but the "One piece per character" rule was a normal approach on The Progenitor. I mostly pugged with two of my characters, but my Sentinel was geared out in set bonus gear in three weeks.

 

The assumption that loot distribution influence needed a raid guild is false.

 

sounds much like my standard rules for the pugs i run

[Vember]

False.

 

The assumption that loot distribution influence needed a raid guild is false.

 

Not really. You might have gotten lucky. RNG is RNG. I ran several raids where I got nothing. Maybe I should have thrown a tantrum.