Nice matches last night on Harbinger

[philwil]

This brought me back to the old days...matches were fairly even, due to pilot inexperience and noob-ish ships.

 

Not that they were inexperienced...

 

It was just refreshing to not be overpowered by max ships/pilots.

 

It is tough being noob these days.

 

but it was a pleasure to fly last night.

 

Both sides kind of alternated wins fro the most part.

 

Maybe that is something to consider. Making a noob time frame, where noob pilots or pilots with noob ships could actually feel like they accomplished something.

 

GG to all those that flew (or didn't fly for that matter) last night.

 

It was the most fun I have had in some time.

Edited December 3, 2016 by philwil

[TheMendac]

[Vember]

There's a particular Imp premade that queues up a lot and when they start showing up, queue times go from 5 minutes to 30 plus minutes on Harb. They're killing GSF but they don't care.

[caederon]

There's a particular Imp premade that queues up a lot and when they start showing up, queue times go from 5 minutes to 30 plus minutes on Harb. They're killing GSF but they don't care.

Four people, who cannot be in more than one match at a time, and who do not play twenty four hours a day, cannot kill, and are not killing, an entire game (GSF). They can't even kill a server, believe it or not.

 

They can cause you frustration when you get matched up against them, especially when your team is not competitive. And sure, that sucks, but there are ways to mitigate and/or turn the tables on this troublesome premade.

 

Here are some suggestions:

1. Regularly observe the scoreboard at the end of matches you fly in. Note the players that perform well. Communicate with them outside of the match ( '/cjoin GSF' to join the GSF chat channel in-game). Ask them to group with you. Ask them for advice. Benefit from both their skills and experience to improve your odds of winning!
   
2. Seek out learning materials and examine them carefully to determine what you could do differently to perform better. Encourage others to do likewise!
   
3. Watch some videos you might learn from!
   
4. Socialize with other GSF players outside of the game.
   

...and finally, be less swift to blame a handful of skilled players for 'killing GSF' when it is absolutely true that the players who played long enough to gain such skill are the ones filling out the queue in the first place.

 

Fight through frustration, raise the level of your game, and help others to do so... then you might notice those 'killer premades' are just 'good competition.'

 

- Despon

[Vember]

Four people, who cannot be in more than one match at a time, and who do not play twenty four hours a day, cannot kill, and are not killing, an entire game (GSF). They can't even kill a server, believe it or not.

 

 

Nope, they pretty much kill the queue times when they start playing. Because people...wait for it....stop queuing.

[Lendul]

Four people, who cannot be in more than one match at a time, and who do not play twenty four hours a day, cannot kill, and are not killing, an entire game (GSF). They can't even kill a server, believe it or not.

 

They can cause you frustration when you get matched up against them, especially when your team is not competitive. And sure, that sucks, but there are ways to mitigate and/or turn the tables on this troublesome premade.

 

Here are some suggestions:

1. Regularly observe the scoreboard at the end of matches you fly in. Note the players that perform well. Communicate with them outside of the match ( '/cjoin GSF' to join the GSF chat channel in-game). Ask them to group with you. Ask them for advice. Benefit from both their skills and experience to improve your odds of winning!
   
2. Seek out learning materials and examine them carefully to determine what you could do differently to perform better. Encourage others to do likewise!
   
3. Watch some videos you might learn from!
   
4. Socialize with other GSF players outside of the game.
   

...and finally, be less swift to blame a handful of skilled players for 'killing GSF' when it is absolutely true that the players who played long enough to gain such skill are the ones filling out the queue in the first place.

 

Fight through frustration, raise the level of your game, and help others to do so... then you might notice those 'killer premades' are just 'good competition.'

 

- Despon

 

Good job on gathering all the evidence and coming to the wrong conclusion Snape. Let me speel it out for you. They are observing that when these people queue other people stop. No claims were made that the queue dies forever, only that the queue take a hit when they show up. Which is a reasonable conclusion to be reached from a reasonable person whom is capable reason. It is after all the most logical conclusion when the addition of 4 people lengthens the queue, if they were a non factor then the queues should become shorter due to the addition of 4 people amirite? Stop erecting a strawman every time someone sacrifices your sacred cow.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Lendul

[caederon]

No claims were made that the queue dies forever, only that the queue take a hit when they show up.

hmm...

They're killing GSF but they don't care.

So 'they're killing GSF' doesn't indicate some concern that the game on the whole is being killed by this impossibly powerful unassailable premade?

 

Just by the virtue of playing, this incredible premade of unsurpassed quality that is indescribably impossible to beat by anyone is killing GSF, on their own, people scatter at the sight of them, quailing at their relentless power? And nothing can be done? No force is sufficient to stop them, no effort great enough?

 

Stop erecting a strawman every time someone sacrifices your sacred cow.

Please, do tell me what part of the advice I offered would make for a poorer solution than complaining about said indomitable premade on the forum in, I guess, an attempt to get them to stop queuing so the good folk can enjoy their GSF uncontested?

 

It's four people. Find four other people, or eight people, or as many people as you can of sufficient quality to queue up against them. Study their tactics. Form plans to combat their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. There are actual solutions to the problem of 'four good players are on' that don't involve 'quick! Everyone quit.'

 

It's Harbinger, there are more than four people there who know what they're doing.

 

- Despon

[caederon]

Or how about this:

 

Come to this very forum and say "Hi, I'm having trouble flying against a really tough premade. Would anyone like to join up and see if we can beat them?"

 

Is hoping someone would make a proactive effort to improve their own situation instead of throwing around vague complaints so outlandish?

 

- Despon

[AzureDoctor]

Stop erecting a strawman every time someone sacrifices your sacred cow.

 

This made me laugh way harder than it should have.

 

For real though, why not just message that premade and ask for tips? Or ask if they give you "the tip" if they'd drop out of queue for a bit so you can play.

[Vember]

hmm...

 

So 'they're killing GSF' doesn't indicate some concern that the game on the whole is being killed by this impossibly powerful unassailable premade?

 

Just by the virtue of playing, this incredible premade of unsurpassed quality that is indescribably impossible to beat by anyone is killing GSF, on their own, people scatter at the sight of them, quailing at their relentless power? And nothing can be done? No force is sufficient to stop them, no effort great enough?

 

 

Please, do tell me what part of the advice I offered would make for a poorer solution than complaining about said indomitable premade on the forum in, I guess, an attempt to get them to stop queuing so the good folk can enjoy their GSF uncontested?

 

It's four people. Find four other people, or eight people, or as many people as you can of sufficient quality to queue up against them. Study their tactics. Form plans to combat their strengths and exploit their weaknesses. There are actual solutions to the problem of 'four good players are on' that don't involve 'quick! Everyone quit.'

 

It's Harbinger, there are more than four people there who know what they're doing.

 

- Despon

 

You need to step down off the pedestal for a minute and reread what I said. They are good, there's no doubt about it, but the fact that they queue up in max rank ships in a coordinated premade that is undoubtedly on voice comms, and proceed to run DM's 50-0 and 49-1 over and over puts others off of playing, hence the queue times keep stretching out whenever these guys show up. And the unfortunate truth of GSF is, once they start, you're going to play against them every single match until they leave.

 

It's not that your advice isn't good, it's just unwarranted. You're preaching to the choir.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Vember

[caederon]

they queue up in max rank ships in a coordinated premade that is undoubtedly on voice comms, and proceed to run DM's 50-0 and 49-1 over and over puts others off of playing, hence the queue times keep stretching out whenever these guys show up.

So, here's the thing... the correct solution to this comes at a game design level by giving players the choice to play in some sort of structure that allows them to queue against similarly skilled opponents. Tiers, leagues, custom match lobbies... GSF doesn't have any of that, and various pleas to the devs, the gaming gods, George Lucas or whomever of course fall on deaf ears.

 

Everyone playing GSF, whether paying for the game or even F2P, has the right to play as they see fit within the rules and confines of the game. GSF is designed for groups of up to four players to play together. Some people play specifically TO fly with their friends and queue up together. It is not enjoyable for them to solo queue.

 

This doesn't even mention that solo-queuers get skipped if they have a lot of games under their belt. So, to actually play GSF (meaning getting into matches) veterans queue up with other players.

 

It is not the job of any player acting within the confines of the rules to ensure the play experience of other players is good at the expense of their own experience. They have a right to enjoy the game, same as you or me.

 

Self-policing, appealing to people's better nature, shaming them publicly, or any other attempts to control the behavior of other players who are acting within the rules of the game is destined to fail. And has, for years. This is not a new argument.

 

If you want to play GSF on a frequent basis, I believe learning yourself and helping other people learn the game is the only workable solution. Increasing the number of competent players decreases the chance that one four-man premade will consistently decimate the competition.

 

It's worth noting that one top-level player , solo queuing, can also wipe out a full team of less skilled players (particularly in TDM). No voice coordination is needed, no premade, just one player who happened to get sorted into a match against people that lack the capacity to deal with them. What's the solution? Tell them to stop playing the game they are potentially paying to play?

 

In an ideal version of GSF, players could sort themselves into matches that provided appropriately scaled challenges to them. The reality of GSF is that it is a shark tank. You can be a shark, or you can get eaten. If you're getting chewed up, convince some people to get tougher with you and give the sharks indigestion until you can bite back.

 

- Despon

[Vember]

So, here's the thing... the correct solution to this comes at a game design level by giving players the choice to play in some sort of structure that allows them to queue against similarly skilled opponents. Tiers, leagues, custom match lobbies... GSF doesn't have any of that, and various pleas to the devs, the gaming gods, George Lucas or whomever of course fall on deaf ears.

 

Everyone playing GSF, whether paying for the game or even F2P, has the right to play as they see fit within the rules and confines of the game. GSF is designed for groups of up to four players to play together. Some people play specifically TO fly with their friends and queue up together. It is not enjoyable for them to solo queue.

 

This doesn't even mention that solo-queuers get skipped if they have a lot of games under their belt. So, to actually play GSF (meaning getting into matches) veterans queue up with other players.

 

It is not the job of any player acting within the confines of the rules to ensure the play experience of other players is good at the expense of their own experience. They have a right to enjoy the game, same as you or me.

 

Self-policing, appealing to people's better nature, shaming them publicly, or any other attempts to control the behavior of other players who are acting within the rules of the game is destined to fail. And has, for years. This is not a new argument.

 

If you want to play GSF on a frequent basis, I believe learning yourself and helping other people learn the game is the only workable solution. Increasing the number of competent players decreases the chance that one four-man premade will consistently decimate the competition.

 

It's worth noting that one top-level player , solo queuing, can also wipe out a full team of less skilled players (particularly in TDM). No voice coordination is needed, no premade, just one player who happened to get sorted into a match against people that lack the capacity to deal with them. What's the solution? Tell them to stop playing the game they are potentially paying to play?

 

In an ideal version of GSF, players could sort themselves into matches that provided appropriately scaled challenges to them. The reality of GSF is that it is a shark tank. You can be a shark, or you can get eaten. If you're getting chewed up, convince some people to get tougher with you and give the sharks indigestion until you can bite back.

 

- Despon

 

Again, preaching to the choir. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but they are running people off. That's not a good thing, for any of us. I hate seeing these guys show up because I know that my night of GSF is pretty much over at that point, because the queue times go from 5 minutes to 30 minutes.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Vember

[Lavaar]

Get more easy people into the que that you can beat up on easily if the ones you're fighting are too hard

 

Spam genchat if you have to

 

Having competition that gives you a hard time is a good thing in a game with a small population mate

 

Tired of this

[caederon]

Again, preaching to the choir. I don't disagree with what you are saying, but they are running people off. That's not a good thing, for any of us. I hate seeing these guys show up because I know that my night of GSF is pretty much over at that point, because the queue times go from 5 minutes to 30 minutes.

Running the premade off is also not good. Subtracting players from GSF is bad, and people who actually bother to regularly queue are not the ones you want to be dissuading from doing so. When the veteran players stop queuing, the places they no longer play on lose their player base and you're left with the random happenstance of whether or not enough curious 'plays-once-in-a-while's hit the Battle button.

 

Getting more veterans back into queuing regularly on both sides of the server gives you a baseline of players to fill matches up with.

 

Taking an active role in encouraging new players to learn the ropes and stick with the game helps to build up that base of veterans. I most often solo queue, but I have and will group with pretty much anyone that asks, regardless of skill level.

 

When does this imp premade play? Let's encourage more veteran players to play pubside because 1. it sounds like they would find some decent competition, and 2. it will keep the matches popping and the queue full.

 

- Despon

[philwil]

To be honest..it's not 'competition' if your ship is noob, zero or near zero upgrades. And, the continuation of them q'ing precludes you from making any kind of money to upgrade.

 

Two, three,, four hours later...still going at it.

 

It is VERY nice when they take a night off.

 

Rarely have the stooped low enough to switch sides.

 

so, what ends up happening is, people from the side I am on, tend to migrate over there.

 

If that happens to be my 'prime time', there is no hope for the most part.

 

I can just as easily switch sides....but what does that do for my pub gsf'ers?

 

Exactly nothing.

 

I tend to switch sides if we over power the other a few times in a row. Otherwise, I feel cheap and dirty.

 

Some of these max dudes need to make some fresh un upgraded toons and fly against max ships/pilots for a few days and see how excited they are to see them.

 

Noob ship with an actual ace pilot cannot out do an ace in a maxed ship. Noob ship can make a dent..but thats about it.

[philwil]

To be honest..it's not 'competition' if your ship is noob, zero or near zero upgrades. And, the continuation of them q'ing precludes you from making any kind of money to upgrade.

 

Two, three,, four hours later...still going at it.

 

It is VERY nice when they take a night off.

 

Rarely have the stooped low enough to switch sides.

 

so, what ends up happening is, people from the side I am on, tend to migrate over there.

 

If that happens to be my 'prime time', there is no hope for the most part.

 

I can just as easily switch sides....but what does that do for my pub gsf'ers?

 

Exactly nothing.

 

I tend to switch sides if we over power the other a few times in a row. Otherwise, I feel cheap and dirty.

 

Some of these max dudes need to make some fresh un upgraded toons and fly against max ships/pilots for a few days and see how excited they are to see them.

 

Noob ship with an actual ace pilot cannot out do an ace in a maxed ship. Noob ship can make a dent..but thats about it.

 

 

I might also like to mention, I dont participate in bomber spamming, or spawn camping.

 

Which, many times the dominant team likes to do.

 

No matter what you say, the noob team doesnt stand a chance against this.

 

'Learn to play and get better. Grow from it'

 

Is a crock of doo doo.

[Lavaar]

Sorry if im missing something here, but who are these people? You've got me interested

 

It's certainly not us, if anyone was wondering

[philwil]

Sorry if im missing something here, but who are these people? You've got me interested

 

It's certainly not us, if anyone was wondering

 

They are home grown Vexx. Not SRW.

 

And, the whole point of this is to not make them stop flying. But to 'spread the love'. Switch it up now and again.

 

It is certainly refreshing, win or lose, to not be menaced my 6 or 7 max gs in TDM, The night i was referring to on this post, in TDM, everyone flew scout or strike. LOVED every minute of it. No bomber spam..no gs wall. That was pure gsf bliss.

[caederon]

So, I queued up on Harbinger tonight, all pubside, all solo-queue, and in four hours played twelve matches.

 

That's a match + waiting every 20 minutes. A number the matches timed out or were otherwise long, close matches. There's a minute at the start of the match, loading screens etc, so the gametime of each match (from loading in screen to loading out screen) was 12-15min. That gives about 5-8min waiting in queue. GSF chat was pretty lively, the time passed quickly. There was often a second match running, as well.

 

I went 9-3 on the night (again, all pubside). The match scores were largely close, one bad loss, one big dom win. There was a mix of experienced and inexperienced pilots, plenty of veterans flying in the ones I was in. Some new names, some old names. I'm going to post three of them, because they were particularly interesting, hard-fought, and well-flown.

 

Maybe not every night is like that, but that is when GSF is at its best. Reasonably balanced teams, lots of people queuing, enough veterans that there were a bunch in most of the matches, close games. I easily could have gone 6-6.

 

- Despon

Edited December 8, 2016 by caederon

[Wildtee]

I'm going to post three of them, because they were particularly interesting, hard-fought, and well-flown.

 

Just please not the TDM where we had a feeder deficit of 0-1-22. Man, that was so painful...

 

It was indeed a great night though!

 

-Skell

[Lendul]

I'm going to post three of them, because they were particularly interesting...

 

- Despon

There is a particular Kuat Mesas Dom that everyone in Drak's stream want you to post

Edited December 8, 2016 by Lendul

[caederon]

Just please not the TDM where we had a feeder deficit of 0-1-22. Man, that was so painful...

That's actually one of the ones I am definitely going to put up, because it demonstrates a lot of different concepts and techniques, counters, non-counters, and the difficulties presented to both sides in such a match. It's worth some analysis, painful or otherwise... speaking of which...

 

There is a particular Kuat Mesas Dom that everyone in Drak's stream want you to post

It's actually a pretty boring match, but if people are clamoring to see me plow into a rock-face, I can just trim that part out and post it instead of having them sit through a blowout to get to the one moment of schadenfreude.

 

- Despon

[philwil]

So, I queued up on Harbinger tonight, all pubside, all solo-queue, and in four hours played twelve matches.

 

That's a match + waiting every 20 minutes. A number the matches timed out or were otherwise long, close matches. There's a minute at the start of the match, loading screens etc, so the gametime of each match (from loading in screen to loading out screen) was 12-15min. That gives about 5-8min waiting in queue. GSF chat was pretty lively, the time passed quickly. There was often a second match running, as well.

 

I went 9-3 on the night (again, all pubside). The match scores were largely close, one bad loss, one big dom win. There was a mix of experienced and inexperienced pilots, plenty of veterans flying in the ones I was in. Some new names, some old names. I'm going to post three of them, because they were particularly interesting, hard-fought, and well-flown.

 

Maybe not every night is like that, but that is when GSF is at its best. Reasonably balanced teams, lots of people queuing, enough veterans that there were a bunch in most of the matches, close games. I easily could have gone 6-6.

 

- Despon

 

Yep. It will happen. You attract the good pilots to your side. But, in any case, when there isnt a known flying pub side, all bets are off, lol.

 

I was flying as well last night.

 

Most of the matches i was referring too happen after midnight eastern time through when the q dies.

 

But, I am glad it did create some fun for everyone. And i guess that is an accomplishment.

[caederon]

... the one moment of schadenfreude.

 

That is all.

 

- Despon

[philwil]

 

That is all.

 

- Despon

 

Nice! That is kinda where I came up with the name Crashtest-dummy