Why I am excited for this expansion...

[Mr_Mrs_Fleetwood]

(I did read your entire post.)

 

It's always sad to see a player leaving the game, while many believe it makes no difference to lose one, undoubtedly what you're saying is what several others are feeling; others who will leave in silence. While the second paragraph which sets out your accomplishments was cringe worthy and just sounded like an ego stroke (completely pointless that will likely bring you more flak than the sentiment of the rest of the post), I am genuinely sorry to see you go.

 

Take care with whatever you decide to do next, have fun in WoW, and hopefully at some point in the future the devs do a better job of retaining their players than they are doing now.

[Zaina]

That would be fine, but you also started out the thread by calling oranges a "joke of a [fruit]".

 

If a game/fruit/whatever isn't to your taste, that's totally valid and I wish you the best of luck in finding entertainment/foodstuffs more to your liking (which it sounds like you have with WoW). But there are an awful lot of posts on this board that go beyond just "I thought I was getting an apple and they gave me an orange so I'm done" and into "oranges are stupid, people who like oranges are stupid, and BW is stupid for making oranges" territory.

 

Leading your thread by calling the game a joke might give one the impression that you're in that second category.

 

It's also my stance on the game too. It has become a joke. Look at this DvL fiasco with the achievements. Or how about a feature that players have wanted for awhile now (being able to customize the newer companions) happen and it's called a bug and scheduled for removal. The cartel market being mostly reskins. An MMO where real, hearty group content hasn't been seen in two years. So yes, this apple/orange hybrid is a bit of a joke.

[Galahard]

It's also my stance on the game too. It has become a joke. Look at this DvL fiasco with the achievements. Or how about a feature that players have wanted for awhile now (being able to customize the newer companions) happen and it's called a bug and scheduled for removal. The cartel market being mostly reskins. An MMO where real, hearty group content hasn't been seen in two years. So yes, this apple/orange hybrid is a bit of a joke.

Boy, not this again, I am looking forward to the day when I go to the WoW forums and whine and demand more story/cutscenes in my WoW, otherwise I call it a joke, ragequit, unsub, and call all WoW player stupid, white knights, what have you.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

[Zaina]

Boy, not this again, I am looking forward to the day when I go to the WoW forums and whine and demand more story/cutscenes in my WoW, otherwise I call it a joke, ragequit, unsub, and call all WoW player stupid, white knights, what have you.

 

Not gonna happen.

 

We'll, I can't say I have called the player base anything, but okay. The point here is they gave us a great game, and then decided they didn't want to take it in that direction anymore. And so I'm not going to pay $15 a month to play Space Barbie Cutscene Simulator where the entire point is to buy cosmetics off the CM to make yourself look cooler in the cutscenes.

[Galahard]

We'll, I can't say I have called the player base anything, but okay. The point here is they gave us a great game, and then decided they didn't want to take it in that direction anymore that I wanted it to be. And so I'm not going to pay $15 a month to play Space Barbie Cutscene Simulator where the entire point is to buy cosmetics off the CM to make yourself look cooler in the cutscenes.

There, fixed it for you.

All clear, don't like the game, don't pay for it, all the power to you.

Not calling stupid, but calling them Space Barbie Simulator players (okay, I get the joke, haha #sarcasm) or <insert your smart name calling label> is just another skin for stupid, not all the power to you.

See the difference already?

[Zaina]

There, fixed it for you.

All clear, don't like the game, don't pay for it, all the power to you.

Not calling stupid, but calling them Space Barbie Simulator players (okay, I get the joke, haha #sarcasm) or <insert your smart name calling label> is just another skin for stupid, not all the power to you.

See the difference already?

 

I'm not sure what the point of the edit was, since it doesn't change the substance of the post at all. I'm not sure how much more I can boil it down. For ME they went ahead and made the game not fun. They gave us an apple 6 years ago, and for better or worse we have an orange.

[TUXs]

I'm not sure what the point of the edit was, since it doesn't change the substance of the post at all. I'm not sure how much more I can boil it down. For ME they went ahead and made the game not fun. They gave us an apple 6 years ago, and for better or worse we have an orange.

Keep going Zaina!!! You're spot on!

 

The sad thing is, the reverse of what he's trying to claim is true. The people who didn't like apples to begin with are suddenly pleased that SWTOR is no longer catering to the apple lovers. Like it or not, SWTOR was meant to defeat W0W...it was a W0W clone for all practical purposes. Now that they've lost 90+% of their customers by not doing a good job of making a decent apple, they are trying to pretend players like oranges...which some do...I enjoy an occasional orange myself...but it's not the bulk of my gaming diet and not something many players are willing to pay $15 a month for (see server status for confirmation).

[Zaina]

Keep going Zaina!!! You're spot on!

 

The sad thing is, the reverse of what he's trying to claim is true. The people who didn't like apples to begin with are suddenly pleased that SWTOR is no longer catering to the apple lovers. Like it or not, SWTOR was meant to defeat W0W...it was a W0W clone for all practical purposes. Now that they've lost 90+% of their customers by not doing a good job of making a decent apple, they are trying to pretend players like oranges...which some do...I enjoy an occasional orange myself...but it's not the bulk of my gaming diet and not something many players are willing to pay $15 a month for (see server status for confirmation).

 

Spot on. And they're stringing us along. "Right now we have oranges, but we'll be talking about our plans for apples in the next livestream". And they briefly mention that they haven't forgotten about us apple lovers, and we'll love the apples they have planned for us. And then they give us apple seeds, and an apple slice. I want a full apple. And I don't want to be strung along and that's exactly what I've felt like. I gave them the benefit of the doubt for an entire expansion, but no more.

 

I'm starting to develop a citrus allergy from BwA.

[Galahard]

I'm glad you found a support group amongst yourselves lol.

Really guys, this would be an interesting discussion, if you didn't beat the same dead horse.

Tell me one thing: why do you want to turn SWTOR into WoW, if WoW is already well and successful?

You just need the same in a sci-fi skin?

Why should be WoW the gold standard for online gaming (with group elements)? (Let's not call it MMO for a purpose please).

Just because it's the most successful? 1 trillion flies eat crap, so they can't be mistaken?

What is the reason why grind cannot be the ultimate purpose of an online game? Don't tell me it's because it's always been like that.

Really interested here, no sarcasm.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Galahard

[TUXs]

I'm glad you found a support group amongst yourselves lol.

Really guys, this would be an interesting discussion, if you didn't beat the same dead horse.

Tell me one thing: why do you want to turn SWTOR into WoW, if WoW is already well and successful?

You just need the same in a sci-fi skin?

Why should be WoW the gold standard for online gaming (with group elements)? (Let's not call it MMO for a purpose please).

Just because it's the most successful? 1 trillion flies eat crap, so they can't be mistaken?

What is the reason why grind cannot be the ultimate purpose of an online game? Don't tell me it's because it's always been like that.

Really interested here, no sarcasm.

We're not the ones to ask...you'd need to ask Bioware why they designed it that way. We didn't develop the game to be the W0W killer, they did. We didn't design it to copy W0W in nearly every possible way, they did.

 

I like SWTOR because it's not W0W. I can't stand the entire ogre and orc ridiculousness. I don't like swords and horses...I prefer blasters and speeders. But...W0W has a helluva following and one that is hungry for something 'new'...yet familiar. SWTOR was designed to fill that niche...but it failed.

[Zaina]

I'm glad you found a support group amongst yourselves lol.

Really guys, this would be an interesting discussion, if you didn't beat the same dead horse.

Tell me one thing: why do you want to turn SWTOR into WoW, if WoW is already well and successful?

You just need the same in a sci-fi skin?

Why should be WoW the gold standard for online gaming (with group elements)? (Let's not call it MMO for a purpose please).

Just because it's the most successful? 1 trillion flies eat crap, so they can't be mistaken?

What is the reason why grind cannot be the ultimate purpose of an online game? Don't tell me it's because it's always been like that.

Really interested here, no sarcasm.

 

Alright, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

 

I don't want Swtor to be WoW. At no point have I said this. I want swtor to be swtor. Not Barbie Dressup Cutscene Simulator. There's a reason I gave 6 years to this game and not, ya'know, WoW. At no point did I say WOW is the gold standard. I didn't even imply this one so I'm not sure what to tell you. For what it's worth I don't think it should be. It is currently the only MMO that is hitting everything I want in an MMO, so there's that. And sorry for potentially triggering you by calling it an MMO but that's what it is (was?) and that's what we're talking about. I'm not sure about what a fly thinks about crap, so I can't answer that too well but I am curious so let me know once you've played through 5.0. As far as why a grind can't be the ultimate purpose, never said it couldn't. It's just not my cup of tea. If I wanted to do the same thing over and over again I'd go replay through a single player game a bunch of times. At least I won't have to pay a monthly subscription to do that.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Zaina

[Galahard]

We're not the ones to ask...you'd need to ask Bioware why they designed it that way. We didn't develop the game to be the W0W killer, they did. We didn't design it to copy W0W in nearly every possible way, they did.

 

I like SWTOR because it's not W0W. I can't stand the entire ogre and orc ridiculousness. I don't like swords and horses...I prefer blasters and speeders. But...W0W has a helluva following and one that is hungry for something 'new'...yet familiar. SWTOR was designed to fill that niche...but it failed.

Ok, thanks for the civil answer, I now at last understand where you are coming from.

In answer:

Bioware, or its owners at least, developed SWtoR with the purpose of selling Bioware to EA.

The main calling sign was the WoW killer "MMO", because that is/was what is/was printing money.

EA bit the bait, and the doctors live happily ever after. EA and/or the docs didn't want to or didn't have the ability to pay attention to what a WoW player needs, because if you want their money, you will get their players too.

So, if you have also fallen to this WoW killer promise, just as EA, I don't know what to tell you.

Sorry for your loss.

What happened was, they were trying to capture two markets at the same time and seem to have been failing in both, because you can't be everything to everybody.

1. WoW MMO crowd: not enough resources to keep them happy long enough (grinding, though they are trying with RNG boxes, good luck with that)

2. Single player RPG people: don't want to pay a monthly fee for content that THEY can finish in a weekend (couldn't care less about grinding)

 

In essence, the 'MMO' part is just a thinly disguised DRM.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Galahard

[Galahard]

Alright, I'll do my best to answer your questions.

 

I don't want Swtor to be WoW. At no point have I said this. I want swtor to be swtor. Not Barbie Dressup Cutscene Simulator. There's a reason I gave 6 years to this game and not, ya'know, WoW. At no point did I say WOW is the gold standard. I didn't even imply this one so I'm not sure what to tell you. For what it's worth I don't think it should be. It is currently the only MMO that is hitting everything I want in an MMO, so there's that. And sorry for potentially triggering you by calling it an MMO but that's what it is (was?) and that's what we're talking about. I'm not sure about what a fly thinks about crap, so I can't answer that too well but I am curious so let me know once you've played through 5.0. As far as why a grind can't be the ultimate purpose, never said it couldn't. It's just not my cup of tea. If I wanted to do the same thing over and over again I'd go replay through a single player game a bunch of times. At least I won't have to pay a monthly subscription to do that.

Ok, not sure how to react to that, no new information in there, just rehash of old content (pun intended).

You're basically saying you want everything what's good for you in a good 'MMO' like WoW, but you don't want WoW to be the gold standard.

Thanks for answering though.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Galahard

[NSStember]

For an "I'm leaving and this is why" post, I think yours was well thought out and explained....worse still, understandable. I've also been playing since launch and there was a time I'd have said this game beat any other...including WoW. The eight stories were wonderful, the class dynamics good (yes, adjustments were needed, but they were all enjoyable).

 

In fact, the original eight stories were so enjoyable that SWTOR made me do something WoW (or any other MMORPG for that matter) failed to do....try *all* the classes. Not just that, but soon I had over 16 alts as I tried every advanced class, and enjoyed the first three chapters over and over. They were unique, but fit together to form a very good Star Wars story with intersecting aspects.

 

I won't go into what changed over the years, we all know the stories went from eight unique ones to two (with a touch of class story in them), to one as we faced Revan on Yavin 4.

 

But still I considered this game one of my top ones (I tried going back to WoW, but found not enough had changed to draw me back).

 

But KOTFE changed something and I couldn't put my finger on it until you pointed it out. We weren't the "star" anymore. Oh yes, we were the focus of the story because it was being seen through our eyes.... it barely mattered if we had been Jedi or Sith...Smuggler or Bounty Hunter or whatever....we were now the "host of the story"....the Outlander. I tried to forget that the story made no sense for a non Force wielder (yes, the Emperor has been around for centuries and rose above all the Sith....but my Agent was the one person he considered an equal...*heh*.) I still enjoyed the story and tried to still enjoy my countless number of alts (over 20)....

 

But as I started to play though the new chapters (no spoilers) I started to see it more.... We used to make choices that really effected our characters, but now I felt we were just following a script....a good script....but still.... and I won't even touch on the "game play" that has gone from a challenging game to something on super easy mode over the years.

 

Well, anyway....I still enjoy this game and the story enough to the point where I'm not leaving (so no, none of you can have my stuff), but I still wanted to thank the OP for voicing some of the same things I was feeling. And while I can't find the solace in WoW the OP has, I do find myself spending a lot more time in GW2 these days than TOR.

 

I'm just hoping (enough to hang on) that when this whole "Eternal Empire" thing is finally over, SWTOR can get back to Jedi and Sith, Republic vs. Empire.....you know....Star Wars.

Edited November 30, 2016 by NSStember

[DarthSpuds]

Ok, not sure how to react to that, no new information in there, just rehash of old content (pun intended).

You're basically saying you want everything what's good for you in a good 'MMO' like WoW, but you don't want WoW to be the gold standard.

Thanks for answering though.

 

Oh please.

 

You are just being deliberately obtuse, and making yourself look very silly in the process.

 

All The Best

[TUXs]

Ok, thanks for the civil answer, I now at last understand where you are coming from.

In answer:

Bioware, or its owners at least, developed SWtoR with the purpose of selling Bioware to EA.

The main calling sign was the WoW killer "MMO", because that is/was what is/was printing money.

EA bit the bait, and the doctors live happily ever after. EA and/or the docs didn't want to or didn't have the ability to pay attention to what a WoW player needs, because if you want their money, you will get their players too.

So, if you have also fallen to this WoW killer promise, just as EA, I don't know what to tell you.

Sorry for your loss.

What happened was, they were trying to capture two markets at the same time and seem to have been failing in both, because you can't be everything to everybody.

1. WoW MMO crowd: not enough resources to keep them happy long enough (grinding, though they are trying with RNG boxes, good luck with that)

2. Single player RPG people: don't want to pay a monthly fee for content that THEY can finish in a weekend (couldn't care less about grinding)

 

In essence, the 'MMO' part is just a thinly disguised DRM.

I haven't "fallen" for anything - I never played W0W, never will...I can't stand the design of it at all. But I do enjoy MMOs - I enjoy the social aspect of it, the communities, the depending on others to complete tasks, the never ending story (MY story, not some crap someone else wrote)...I enjoy SWTOR enough to keep my sub...for now.

[Parane]

Sorry to see you go, OP, despite me not knowing you. These things happen though. I left WoW after playing it semi-religiously for six years. You stop liking something and move on. It happens with all things in life and will never stop, regardless of your age and experience.

 

Then again, I started to love broccoli at the tender age of 35 so anything is still possible ...