SWTOR $1 million decrease in subscription

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Your example is essentially correct, however, that's just step one. Step 2 is this: The 33.3K you refer to are the loss and therefore 1% of the total subs, therefore 100% of the subs is 33.3K * 100 = 3.33 milion

 

Sorry I'm still not getting your point or you are confused perhaps?

 

You seem to be relating the statement made by EA as though it were either related specifically to this game or actually mentioned player numbers - it doesn't. It relates to all games that provide a subscriber revenue stream and is mentioned in regards to purely revenue, not player numbers.

 

They lost $1 million or 1% of total revenue from these games - nowhere does that come to implying SWToR lost 1% of it's subscriber base ...

 

In a simplified example SWToR could lose the full $1 million and all other games be as they were last year.

SWToR could make up 30% of the total revenue from this stream so $30 million down to $29 million so 666K subs down to 644K.

 

From there you can of course apply other situations where SWToR loses $2 million and other games increase $1 million or SWToR loses 500K and is the sole largest loss with others making up the other 500K.

 

There are many ways this can be interpreted but none can be proven on the data provided.

 

All we can say for fact is SWToR subscribers are down Q2 year on year and SWToR is the primary subscriber based game that has reduced overall revenue to this stream to EA.

 

That is a negative no matter how some people want to try and brush it aside and call people pointing this out as just being negative for the sake of being negative and a dislike towards BWA and thus up on a soap box ( not that you yourself are, we know who those posters are - they do it in every thread that takes issue with anything in this game and pretend they are presenting well reasoned debates when they rarely are ).

 

How bad it is we cannot tell but I find it telling it was during the period of "sub for your chapters" earned less revenue than ideally a period of "sub for what you've had for 6+ months".

This ideally means the announcement of KoTFE and the sub reward program preceding it was more popular than actual chapters for subscribing.

 

Funnily enough though if you want to take the "announcement of the expansion" as being a major factor to the boost we had last year ( and I agree it most likely was ) it bodes ill this year where we have not seen that same boost and this announcement in terms of a player boost is on par if not below the bloody DvL event this year ( going by torstatus ).

 

Maybe I'm missing something here but I would love to see some reasoned argument to show anything but a declining trend year on year in this game. People can call it negative all they like but hey ... maybe provide something to the contrary?

[curulz]

I think you'd actually be surprised how many players like me there are. I think they have to change the sytem cus partly it was never their design intention to have everyone gear in one night, they want pve and pvp players to try each others content and cus the priority system is messing up progression, and causing people to do only EV and KP. They want everyone to try and do a bit of every content, which you can even see from the DvL event. I honestly think they are trying to up numbers to justify increase spending in group content. The new system will be different and unlikely to be 100 % correct right away but I think it's a good base that BW can fiddle about with to get right. They've already changed the drops to be based on discipline instead of advanced class due to feedback

 

The simple fact that they had to change it to discipline as opposed to AC should be concerning. It shows how out of touch they are. I have very little faith they can get this right. And typically they don't tweak, they make wide sweeping changes.

 

And no offense, but thinking everyone got geared up in one night is a gross exaggeration, especially from someone who has admitted to only doing one SM op.

[PlasmaJohn]

Except gearing is not working for me now. To get into higher gear stuff, you need higher gear. Unless I spend a long time saving crystals (the best way is via harder grouping btw) I wouldn't be able to get good gear to try out the different content.

Sorry for being "that guy"...

 

190 green mods (lvl 60 mod vendor in Supplies) are "good enough" for Tactical FPs and SM Ops where bolster adjusts your stats for the content. At two green data crystals apiece that'll run you 50 (IIRC). TFP's drop gear with purple 208 (or is it 216?) mods. (I only use the armorings and enh.) Crafted 208 barrels and hilts cost a modest amount of credits and if you really want to go crazy slap augments in your gear.

 

Set bonuses and higher ilvls aren't "necessary" unless you're doing HM/NiM or Ranked PvP. Sure they make the open world and bolstered stuff easier but not having them shouldn't be keeping you out of TFP's and SM Ops. ( Achieve crazy raid leads notwithstanding )

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Huh? Are we not talking about the latest financial quarter? A good half of which was after KOTFE ended?

 

Edit: Looks like I'm not understanding the dates of quarters. It looks like the latest quarter was for April, May, and June.

 

So it would seem the chapter a month plus sub rewards possibly helped their revenue out in Q1. But after that, revenue went down overall, compared to prior quarter (or quarters, not sure which).

 

We're talking Q2 so July-Sept. Chapter 16 was August, bonus chapter was September ( though it required a sub process through out all chapters supposedly and you ideally wouldn't need be a sub in September to get it I believe ).

As to Q1 results from memory they didn't get a mention of SWToR at all so make of that what you will.

 

2015 period we had a togruta ... yay? Oh yeah we had to pay extra for that too lol.

 

On a positive note how great was the bonus chapter. Hoping KotET will following this improved trend of story with game play aspects of 15 and 16 that I found great fun. Unfortunately though it seems even if it is great they have given up on episodic content so it won't matter a lot of the on going games revenue in that regard.

[RuthSimpson]

And no offense, but thinking everyone got geared up in one night is a gross exaggeration, especially from someone who has admitted to only doing one SM op.

 

There's been loads of people on these forums saying they can get a person easily geared in one night to add to their ops group. They put it as a plus for gearing easily to get tanking, healing gear for their alts. One night may be too short for most, but most raiders when complaining about the new system said it took them about two weeks. PVPers can buy top lvl gear right away with saved comms. This is what posters on these very forums have said. And you are not going to get more people doing ops if you have this condescending attitude.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The major problem I see, is that Kotfe was build on a lot of hope.

 

It was Bioware returning to Story! Each chapter was said to be the best ever! Choices would really matter!

 

KoTFE at launch was an astounding success, everything that has come since can be viewed as a failure imo ( and player stats and these latest financials support that stance ).

 

Had they done the KoTFE expansion, a few chapters ( maybe less chapters ) AND continued to expand on the MMO content with raids, pvp maps I imagine 4.0 would have been awesome - kept people subbing on the back of the success of the launch.

 

They neglected too large of a part of their player base though and allowed the savvy who did want story to simply sub in August and get it all at once for $15 ( more enjoyable experience too playing it back to back ).

[Atree]

I am hoping that this new expansion will breath some more life into the game. I have always liked it but it was always lacking end game content. I am coming back after about a 2 year break. I am looking forward to it.

[RuthSimpson]

Sorry for being "that guy"...

 

190 green mods (lvl 60 mod vendor in Supplies) are "good enough" for Tactical FPs and SM Ops where bolster adjusts your stats for the content. At two green data crystals apiece that'll run you 50 (IIRC). TFP's drop gear with purple 208 (or is it 216?) mods. (I only use the armorings and enh.) Crafted 208 barrels and hilts cost a modest amount of credits and if you really want to go crazy slap augments in your gear.

 

Set bonuses and higher ilvls aren't "necessary" unless you're doing HM/NiM or Ranked PvP. Sure they make the open world and bolstered stuff easier but not having them shouldn't be keeping you out of TFP's and SM Ops. ( Achieve crazy raid leads notwithstanding )

I do FP Tacticals all the time. It's getting into ops and pvp that I find daunting. I had alot of fun doing lowbie pvp cus I could be rubbish and fail and try again and fail again and sorta learn. But when you get to end game there can be a lot of elitists and while I could join a raiding guild, am still not sure if ops are for me, don't have much time and don't really want to have people rely on me for content I'm not sure I can commit to.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

They didn't make a loss. they still made a profit on SWTOR. And 1 million dollars is nothing to EA. So you can stop with the ONE captitalization already. Seriously do you even like the game? You find any reason to bad mouth it.

 

Where does it say they made a profit though?

 

Granted I believe ideally if the game made an actual loss they would have to disclose that but they only seem to do these things if the stream parts of the game contribute to has made an overall loss.

 

If 1 million is nothing to EA why did they even bother pointing it out? As the Wayshuba pointed out it's strange for them to even bother doing so.

 

There is always the possibility that it's great than $1 million also because the overall loss of subscriber revenue was $1 million so other games could have offset a bigger loss by SWToR ( or to be fair it could be less which is what most want to assume but we should endeavour to look at it in an impartial manner ) ... truth is we don't know.

[curulz]

There's been loads of people on these forums saying they can get a person easily geared in one night to add to their ops group. They put it as a plus for gearing easily to get tanking, healing gear for their alts. One night may be too short for most, but most raiders when complaining about the new system said it took them about two weeks. PVPers can buy top lvl gear right away with saved comms. This is what posters on these very forums have said. And you are not going to get more people doing ops if you have this condescending attitude.

 

In terms of gearing up a replacement raid member, or gearing an alt or a different spec it was possible to get nearly a full set, assuming everyone else is already geared. That is the piece you were missing. A team would have to run multiple times to get everyone geared up in 220's, let alone 224's (unless they were easily clearing NiM). I agree that priority op was probably overtuned, but again an example of a drastic change as opposed to a tweak. They could have simply removed priority op and added GC gearing. It still would have been a win for you with an acceptable loss to the raiding community.

[TUXs]

I think you'd actually be surprised how many players like me there are. I think they have to change the sytem cus partly it was never their design intention to have everyone gear in one night, they want pve and pvp players to try each others content and cus the priority system is messing up progression, and causing people to do only EV and KP. They want everyone to try and do a bit of every content, which you can even see from the DvL event. I honestly think they are trying to up numbers to justify increase spending in group content. The new system will be different and unlikely to be 100 % correct right away but I think it's a good base that BW can fiddle about with to get right. They've already changed the drops to be based on discipline instead of advanced class due to feedback

That doesn't make any sense...they added BOLSTER to SM Ops to 100% negate the need for any gear - people were "geared" before they even began SM Ops. They are simply trying to extend something that they don't quite understand (gearing)...a system where players do what the group needs and those players are rewarded either way right now...in the new system, they're killing the only thing that makes PuGs possible.

 

If you want 224 gear, I'd be fine with it being granted for free - I want gear removed as a barrier to anything. The mechanics of Operations are what players need to beat - gear simply minimizes how often you need to face some of those mechanics...nothing we wear makes us invincible or beats an Operation.

[RuthSimpson]

In terms of gearing up a replacement raid member, or gearing an alt or a different spec it was possible to get nearly a full set, assuming everyone else is already geared. That is the piece you were missing. A team would have to run multiple times to get everyone geared up in 220's, let alone 224's (unless they were easily clearing NiM). I agree that priority op was probably overtuned, but again an example of a drastic change as opposed to a tweak. They could have simply removed priority op and added GC gearing. It still would have been a win for you with an acceptable loss to the raiding community.

How long normally would it take after an expansion drop for you to gear up fully on the old system? There where posters who said a couple of weeks which again I don't think was the game design. The truth is we don't really know how the GC system will affect the game til it releases. We don't have the cxp numbers or the RNG numbers either. If it is effecting raiders that badly the numbers can be tweaked. But I don't think they could have a gearing system for raiders and one for everyone else. It would increase animosity between the "casuals" and raiders, and PVPers would be raging over raiders having a gearing advantage.

[ChainLighning]

Regardless if WoW is dying or not, eventually Blizzard will have to consider what to do next with that product, that is the most interesting question that players will have to face when that day comes. popularity of the product is irrelevant. Remember CoH? that was shut down quite suddenly, all i am saying is that you shouldn't be too concerned with numbers, what you should be more concerned with is when blizzard will decide that WoW has had it's time and prepare for that day, if and when it comes.

 

Sorry but why would we need to do that? Why can't we just play the games enjoy things and when things are shut down just move on? It is pretty clear WoW has been and currently is a very popular MMO. The Legion model is doing very well and unlike BioWare Blizzard has said a lot about their road map for the future. Not quite sure I follow what you're trying to say there. I do think everything has an end however so maybe that is all you are trying to communicate?

 

I do not even worry about SWTOR shutting down. See to me when some people say the game is "dieing" I personally do not think of solely population drop. I think of core gameplay elements that have been removed or ignored (as in lack of content) to a point that the game is no longer the same. To me those two have a correlation to one another, but I'll let others fight that out. I do think there is a group of players in SWTOR that embrace what BioWare has done and a group that would rather see the game move back to a traditional MMO even if it had to sacrifice a little story to do it.

 

Blizzard made a decision as to what they wanted Legion to be. They made it clear and bold. Not everyone likes it, but overall it appears to be quite successful. It certainly is not perfect and has elements that are frustrating, but at least they decided what they were going to be and they gave a ton of content with that in mind.

 

SWTOR to me is still figuring that out and the battle rages on. If BioWare would just make it 100% without a doubt clear what they are going to do so much questioning would go away. Of course certainly not all of it and I think we all understand that. Not saying the game "lives" or "dies" but the ambiguity is removed and players can decide for the themselves. We all know why they are not doing that, money, and to a degree can understand. They are a business and this game is there to profit as such. Doesn't make it any less frustrating that they cannot provide a road map at the release of a new expansion of where they are headed with MMO content in this game. So many people are really fed up with that and the bottom line to this entire thread to me is that SWTOR is continuing feel the impacts of that indecision and ambiguity.

[TUXs]

How long normally would it take after an expansion drop for you to gear up fully on the old system? There where posters who said a couple of weeks which again I don't think was the game design. The truth is we don't really know how the GC system will affect the game til it releases. We don't have the cxp numbers or the RNG numbers either. If it is effecting raiders that badly the numbers can be tweaked. But I don't think they could have a gearing system for raiders and one for everyone else. It would increase animosity between the "casuals" and raiders, and PVPers would be raging over raiders having a gearing advantage.

I'm still not in full 224's and I do Ops every night I play (2-3 nights a week). But...because of the way gearing currently works, I have some toons geared who have only ever done AN Op. I love the current system...I can hoard gear for the toons I MAY have to play, or I can sell the 216/220 stuff for credits. The current system works very well for raiders imo.

[RuthSimpson]

That doesn't make any sense...they added BOLSTER to SM Ops to 100% negate the need for any gear - people were "geared" before they even began SM Ops. They are simply trying to extend something that they don't quite understand (gearing)...a system where players do what the group needs and those players are rewarded either way right now...in the new system, they're killing the only thing that makes PuGs possible.

 

If you want 224 gear, I'd be fine with it being granted for free - I want gear removed as a barrier to anything. The mechanics of Operations are what players need to beat - gear simply minimizes how often you need to face some of those mechanics...nothing we wear makes us invincible or beats an Operation.

Have you honestly never come across people using gear as away to have a go at people and prevent them from getting into content? I've had people in tactical fps trying to get rid of newer people. Even in tacticals which have bolster. People suck. Look I want to learn, and I always tell the group if I've never ran something before or can't remember the tactics. Some people are rude. But ops is definitely a stumbling block where a lot of people expect you to know ALL the tactics and have ALL the gear before you even done it before. I just haven't really been able to give it a fair go because of all that baggage. I really hope the new system will let ops be more open for everyone to get into and that people can be friendly. The double cxp bonus for different content will get people trying stuff they've never done before. I just hope people can be welcoming to those newbies. A few rotten eggs really can spoil the bunch and create an elitist atmosphere

[TUXs]

Have you honestly never come across people using gear as away to have a go at people and prevent them from getting into content? I've had people in tactical fps trying to get rid of newer people. Even in tacticals which have bolster. People suck. Look I want to learn, and I always tell the group if I've never ran something before or can't remember the tactics. Some people are rude. But ops is definitely a stumbling block where a lot of people expect you to know ALL the tactics and have ALL the gear before you even done it before. I just haven't really been able to give it a fair go because of all that baggage. I really hope the new system will let ops be more open for everyone to get into and that people can be friendly. The double cxp bonus for different content will get people trying stuff they've never done before. I just hope people can be welcoming to those newbies. A few rotten eggs really can spoil the bunch and create an elitist atmosphere

Of course I have. That doesn't make this a good system though. Like I've said, I'm THRILLED everyone will be able to get top tier gear - I think I've made that perfectly clear by now. I dislike the RNG aspect of it because it's going to hurt far too many other aspects that currently enable the game to operate the way it does.

[curulz]

How long normally would it take after an expansion drop for you to gear up fully on the old system? There where posters who said a couple of weeks which again I don't think was the game design. The truth is we don't really know how the GC system will affect the game til it releases. We don't have the cxp numbers or the RNG numbers either. If it is effecting raiders that badly the numbers can be tweaked. But I don't think they could have a gearing system for raiders and one for everyone else. It would increase animosity between the "casuals" and raiders, and PVPers would be raging over raiders having a gearing advantage.

 

you could gear up in 220s really quick. If I focused on just one toon, I could have been in all 220s in a week if I was really lucky and pugged often. However I run with multile teams, multiple roles so I didn't concentrate on just one. But early on they were upgrades for everyone, so competition was higher. Over time as people were better geared, they were easier to come by. 224s took much longer though, unless you were on a team that could routinely farm NiM, you were stuck with the priority op. And since they were typically upgrades for everyone, much more competition. And yes, many people farmed EV and KP because they were easy in comparison to other HMs.

 

Again 4.0 was considerably easier to get BIS gear than other expansions, no argument there. but instead if tweaking it, they nuked it. That's what has me ornery.

[RuthSimpson]

Of course I have. That doesn't make this a good system though. Like I've said, I'm THRILLED everyone will be able to get top tier gear - I think I've made that perfectly clear by now. I dislike the RNG aspect of it because it's going to hurt far too many other aspects that currently enable the game to operate the way it does.

Except they needed a new system so that everyone can get access eventually to top gear and can try any of the content. They can't have a separate way for raiders to gear as their would be backlash from both pvpers and casuals. I hope the RNG can be balanced by the ease of gaining cxp, top tier crafting and the destory item for cxp thing. We won't know the effects on raiders gearing til 5.0 hits. If it is really that impossible to gear, I would complain to Bioware to get it fixed. We need to see it first and like I've said I really like the concept. I understand your concerns but I think the problems of the old system were bad and encouraged elitism. We needed something new and I will have a go at Bioware if it does really screw up raiders. But I think it could be really good though I admit it may need tweaking

[RuthSimpson]

you could gear up in 220s really quick. If I focused on just one toon, I could have been in all 220s in a week if I was really lucky and pugged often. However I run with multile teams, multiple roles so I didn't concentrate on just one. But early on they were upgrades for everyone, so competition was higher. Over time as people were better geared, they were easier to come by. 224s took much longer though, unless you were on a team that could routinely farm NiM, you were stuck with the priority op. And since they were typically upgrades for everyone, much more competition. And yes, many people farmed EV and KP because they were easy in comparison to other HMs.

 

Again 4.0 was considerably easier to get BIS gear than other expansions, no argument there. but instead if tweaking it, they nuked it. That's what has me ornery.

Understand your concerns but really think it depends on GC box drops. If you can lvl GC easily it won't affect raiders too much and can open up content for different groups of people. I think Bioware will likely need to make tweaks as it's a new system so unlikely to get correct right away but I like what they are aiming for

[curulz]

Understand your concerns but really think it depends on GC box drops. If you can lvl GC easily it won't affect raiders too much and can open up content for different groups of people. I think Bioware will likely need to make tweaks as it's a new system so unlikely to get correct right away but I like what they are aiming for

 

I hope you are correct, I really do. It seems like it's here to stay either way. From what I've seen and lack of info from BW has me very nervous though.

[TUXs]

Except they needed a new system so that everyone can get access eventually to top gear and can try any of the content. They can't have a separate way for raiders to gear as their would be backlash from both pvpers and casuals. I hope the RNG can be balanced by the ease of gaining cxp, top tier crafting and the destory item for cxp thing. We won't know the effects on raiders gearing til 5.0 hits. If it is really that impossible to gear, I would complain to Bioware to get it fixed. We need to see it first and like I've said I really like the concept. I understand your concerns but I think the problems of the old system were bad and encouraged elitism. We needed something new and I will have a go at Bioware if it does really screw up raiders. But I think it could be really good though I admit it may need tweaking

I hope you're right Ruth...I truly do understand your point. I want players like you to be able to try the things I find so fun to do - operations and PvP are my two favorite activities in-game...by FAR! I hope you get a chance to enjoy them, feeling well geared and not being looked down upon by anyone. And maybe Bioware will surprise us and actually tweak things...but history tells us not to count on it...possibly for years. From what I've read, it's not going to be pretty...at all...

[RuthSimpson]

I hope you are correct, I really do. It seems like it's here to stay either way. From what I've seen and lack of info from BW has me very nervous though.

From the Uprisings stream last time one of the guys went up four GC levels while the other guy went up two-thirds of a lvl from a story and a veteran uprising. That sounds really weird but apparently they's updated the cxp values on the PTS and they hadn't updated for the Bad feeling Podcast guy so I'm wondering if that's why he didn't lvl up? It was like 45 mins of gameplay though and they had wiped on the veteran during that time. I think this may indicate that you get boxes reasonably quick

[Alssaran]

And maybe Bioware will surprise us and actually tweak things.

 

TUX, let's be honest here. How often has the forum gone apesh*t crazy over a proposed change in X.0 and predicted the end of the world (SWTOR) as we know it? How many countless NGE examples have been made for level sync, RNG boxes, Discplines and Utilities and even slot machines?

 

And how often did people simply stop giving a sh*t about the element, or actually admitted that their response was premature? Espescially in regards to gameplay changes such as level synch and discplines? I remember a fifty+ pages discussion with countless threads about how that system would destroy the game, made no sense gameplay and story wise, and would be the NGE of SWTOR. Come 4.0 and 4.2 later on, nobody gave a cr*p anymore. It stopped being an issue. The same thing goes for utilities.

 

The entire forum loves to go crazy about changes, then loses focus on said feature, and then starts acting up six months later. This entire system is judged on the premise of a worst case scenario. I can almost predict that with crafted gear, exchanging useless drops for XP, and a GC booster bought from the GTN, most serious players will be on a level to raid after three weeks once the new stuff hits.

 

There are horror stories about getting bracers thirty times (hyperbole), beeing without any set gear after six months, and not getting any relevant gear from any of the hundred crates within the first few months. We're not talking platinum rarity here.

 

And if the system turns out to be somewhat badly balanced, Bioware will adjust the numbers come 5.1 after the holidays. And, no, people won't have stormed of in rage and turned their back on this black death for all eternity. They'll stick around for a month or two, simply seeing where the changes and the new group content in January are going to go. Because, frankly, people don't care. They want to derp around with lightsabers. They don't care whether they don't get full set gear within a week. They don't want to rush content. They don't want to be "the best, most competitive PVP player." They want to swing around lightsabers and b*ng Twi'leks.

 

This response is not disproportional to anything we have seen since release and before that. Might I remind you about the intense space-combat discussion pre-launch? So many people said they'd never buy the game without proper space combat. Some of these people are still around.

 

I've said it before, during 3.0 and 2.0, and even during 4.0. Sit back and try the stuff. This apocalypse now behaviour is getting annoying. You're bashing a new system (not criticising, bashing!) without knowing it's balance, the loot tables, numbers, associated grind, possible fixes Bioware is already planning, without finished balancing and PTR stuff that might change during the last minute - the product isn't finished until Monday the 28th.

 

And those "I asked my entire guild, and all of the fourty-two members replied they'd immediately quit!" posts are annoying. No, that's not the case. They won't. Those posts have gone up ever since and frequently since 1.0. 10% of the people who say that actually quit. That's a statistical number from a famous game developer.

 

So relax, try out the new system, and watch if it's any good or bad. Don't go in with predictions of splendor or gloom, and then judge it on it's own inner workings. Don't care about previous CM RNG experiences, and then see where it leads. And for crying out loud, stop pretending 99% of this game's playerbase will vanish overnight, and that a hundred people on each character said they'd quit during the first day of 5.0.

 

I actually told this to a dozen people who don't play SWTOR, and who might play the story in 5.0. They didn't care. They didn't bash it. They didn't love it. They simply didn't care.

 

TUX, you've been around for a long time. You know that no prediction since 2012 that compared a system to the NGE and propheciced the end of this game has ever come true. You know that this forum freaks out over the most useless worst case scenarios calculated by arm-chair developers. This is why developers don't want to engage with communities again. When they offer a cake, politely decline or simply try it out. Don't smash the cake against the next wall and demand your vanilla biscuit instead of a chocolate cookie.

 

Try the bl**dy cookie!

Edited November 14, 2016 by Alssaran

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Except they needed a new system so that everyone can get access eventually to top gear and can try any of the content.

 

Seeing as this has gone way off topic, might as well weigh in.

 

They needed a new system why? Because there were 100's of threads about people not getting top end gear to do content they don't need it for? You previously earned top end gear by doing top end content - it proved you were capable of doing the top end content.

 

To get on that path you started doing SM ops that were bolstered and ideally became easier the better gear you got as well as opening the path to HM.

 

I don't want you or anyone else just deciding to "try" HM content when you have no idea what you are doing because you may not have gone through the basics first.

 

They can't have a separate way for raiders to gear as their would be backlash from both pvpers and casuals

.

 

They already had a separate system from casuals so your point is moot as there was little to no backlash before.

PVP with the removal of expertise is indeed a bit of a problem in this regard and it semi makes me wonder if this whole change came about due to the expertise removal. In saying that the simpler solution that many players have asked for is have everyone in PVP sharing either a same stat pool they can move around as they like or just pure set stats.

 

Stat gearing and PVP aren't an overly popular concept in previous threads on the topic.

 

I hope the RNG can be balanced by the ease of gaining cxp, top tier crafting and the destory item for cxp thing. We won't know the effects on raiders gearing til 5.0 hits. If it is really that impossible to gear, I would complain to Bioware to get it fixed. We need to see it first and like I've said I really like the concept. I understand your concerns but I think the problems of the old system were bad and encouraged elitism. We needed something new and I will have a go at Bioware if it does really screw up raiders. But I think it could be really good though I admit it may need tweaking

 

The thing with raiding in this game is it's old now ... many people are happy to leave just for that reason but add in no gear progression and RNG to the system it is replaced with and even those hanging about are set to move on.

No more operation passes for preferred will remove another portion of the player base from the raids too lets not forget.

 

When you think on all that ... you are going to struggle to even try raids with anyone who has much idea of what they are doing to help you because there will be a shortage of experienced players left running raids.

 

You are right, we can wait and see but personally I unsubbed a week ago after considering these changes ( after just resubbing for the story lol ) , I'm not grinding away my time to even give them a chance. There is too much out there that is fresh and new for me to do to want to grind through a grindy system so there is no wait and see and I wonder how many people share this sentiment.

 

To people such as yourself that haven't done the content to death I can see why this system doesn't bother you much but honestly the people who haven't rinsed themselves out on this content seem like quite a minority ( up until the point so many people leave they become the majority ).

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Understand your concerns but really think it depends on GC box drops. If you can lvl GC easily it won't affect raiders too much and can open up content for different groups of people. I think Bioware will likely need to make tweaks as it's a new system so unlikely to get correct right away but I like what they are aiming for

 

If you watched their live stream it's anything but quick but let us hope they are seriously tweaking that ... track record says they aren't though.