Hi there, I would potentially be interested. Returning player, who raided heavily in the game from 2012 to 2016. Cleared virtually all content included NiM and HM ToS/Ravagers. Please PM me here or I'll try and reach out to you in game.

I have been here for 5 years and I'm on my way out. This is a very subjective subject but I think it is fair that both sides of this be heard. The terms "dead" "dying" "maintenance mode" are probably over exaggerated in a way, but they simply can't be totally dismissed. From my perspective I don't need some "metric" to tell me what I have directly seen and experienced in my 5 years with this game, playing on 3 servers with 3 large guilds all of which have dried up. When this game launched there were so many issues. People wanted KOTOR3 and realised that wasn't what this was and left, bugs were plentiful, end game content was simply not there, and more issues were present. This resulted in a decline in population. Along comes F2P, cartel market, and we start seeing some solid quality of life improvements and the health of the game improves. Then in my opinion we have the peak of the game with late 1.x, 2.x, and 3.x, although parts of 3.x led us to where we are today in my opinion. Within that time frame though we had a healthy dose of group content, we had some solid PVP, intro of GSF, some good story with the Oricon story line. SoR wasn't great story but gave us new worlds, new flashpoints, and 2 new raids. Largely though the 3 pillars of the game, story, group content, and PVP, each got their due and the game CLEARLY had a healthy population. Things were not perfect not by a long shot, but the trend was heading upward was solid. After SoR though things got messy. Somewhere along the way BioWare launched a series of "metrics" that switched them to a more story focused game. They all but abandoned two of the major pillars in group content and PVP, something they had EXPLICITLY said they would not do previously.. We got the chapters with 4.x and 5.x (thus far) and the game clearly suffered. Mid Tier raiding was gutted. Solid repeatable content had not seen content in years. Now does this mean the game "died" no, not necessarily but when you ignore two of the 3 pillars, the game suffers and anyone who doesn't recognise that is simply fooling themselves otherwise. Maybe they don't raid or PVP at all so in their view the game is great. Overall though the "meat and potatoes" of the game shifted in such a different direction it rejected so many of the core group of players it developed with 2.x and 3.x. Theory crafting, high end raiding, competitive PVP, all those things REALLY suffered. I really think BioWare thought this direction would present them with a different core of players, sort of in the lines of those that wanted something like KOTOR3, but given the fact we've directly observed population issues and the producer "moved on" I think it is a pretty reasonable thought to say that approach did not work out. Again, doesn't mean the game is "dead" as some would define it. In fact if you're a new player there is plenty to do. To me though for someone who was here 5 years, the game is not what it was. Mostly the release of content is so PATHETIC in comparison to other MMOs I can't justify giving this game any more money. If you here to just see the core stories, explore, PVP a little, see some stuff for the first time, enjoy. However, I think with the recently released "roadmap" it is pretty clear to me personally as a long time vet the game will not be what it could have been, hence my conclusion is it is a "dead" game in that sense. Again, people will be here playing until they shut the servers off and if you look in the right spots you'll find folks that are doing what you want to do. The problem is the lost potential some really bad decisions cost us as players.

OP you are totally imagining things. The server is totally loaded with players. They are just playing the chapters or in their strongholds, you just aren't seeing them, besides this isn't really an MMO. Absolutely no need to merge servers as the population is completely healthy. It is just the "vocal minority" that scream otherwise. /sarcasm off Completely understand unsubbing. Good luck to you in your future gaming endeavors.

As someone who has unsubbed I have taken notice of the recent changes and look forward to seeing how things develop. If they do not support ALL THE PILLARS of the game I personally think a lot of people will never return. They tried a story heavy approach and it failed. You can say what you want, talk about numbers, etc, but having been here since the beginning and on my way out, through direct observation one can see the bottom line since 4.0 the game has been in clear decline. Server populations and the call for merges are just one example of how we see this. Now the producer has "moved on" as a result. Writing is on the wall. The game needs a real expansion, not just one new daily area, not just one operation of the course of a year, but a new, real expansion. One with some story, one with some exploration, one with a real leveling experience, one with new and refreshing end game content in operations and FPs, one with some new PVP maps all the fundamental things this game has had during its successful periods. We've tried the half @$^ approach with the game long enough. It clearly did not work. Again, just speaking for me personally, if it doesn't get that, I just don't see myself coming back because the threat of falling back into what happened could happen again. No desire to invest myself only to be disappointed again by this studio.

What a load of crap. I, like many others, spent 5 years here, stuck with this game through a lot of stuff shortly after launch and beyond. Many others did the same and BioWare screwed over a lot of loyal customers who got fed up and left. If you can't objectively see that the amount of content released by this game over the last couple of years is far less than others on the market you're just being unreasonable.

I'm sorry but you are a bit off OP I moved from this game after 5 years of being here to WoW and quite frankly wish I had done it months ago. There is so much more to do in their expansions versus here it is embarrassing. It isn't all roses and cake for sure. What parts of the WoW community are upset with is the fact 7.2 was heavily time gated content, so when they rolled the patch out it felt very underwhelming. They also made a bad decision in regards to requirements for flying but here is the thing...know what they did? They removed the requirement altogether, now you just have to get the rep, which is a bit of a grind but they took responsibility and action and they did it within a 48 hour time period. Something I have rarely seen out of the crew running this game. So yeah, would be great if SWTOR could do a Legion type expansion but has been previously mentioned they really can't. The content comparison, well there really isn't any. As much as I still love it SWTOR is pathetic in that regard.

I made the switch from SWTOR to WoW and haven't looked back. I've learned it is popular to hate on WoW, at least from my subjective experience that is what I have found. As I talked to people over the years I got a lot of feedback similar to what is above. Given that BioWare has completely failed to produce any significant content for this game I decided to try out FF, ESO, and WoW to see which would best fit me. Because of the feedback I had received I was hesitant to try WoW but did so anyways. After testing all of them I settled with WoW and I'd have to say my experience has been a very positive one. First, as I touched on WoW has something this game doesn't: content Now people are quick to point out it is a much older game, which is true, but I'm speaking just for Legion. Since late August there have been almost 20 dungeons, 3 raids, specific and unique class stories and areas, 5 different zones to explore, and a new class, most of which launched with Legion at that time. Additionally there have been some solid updates along the way including 7.2 which launched today. Say what you want about any game, particularly an MMO, but if the content is lacking, and I mean that in multiple ways, then it is going to be a struggle to stay with the game. I find that Legion gives me personally a solid balance of solo and group content. Second, and this was a bit of a surprise to me, I found the story to be pretty good. Now before everyone starts screaming about cut scenes and presentation, yeah it isn't the same. I too like the cut scenes SWTOR has provided us with and it is more "work" to follow the story in Legion. However, if you're willing to do it the story is quite good, and the scenes that are there are well done. Third, for me personally the success I find with a game, especially a multiplayer game/MMO, has a lot to do with the people I play it with. I have been fortunate enough to find a great group of folks to play with. I did find my transition to be somewhat difficult and I still miss elements of SWTOR, but without the content, and without a commitment from EA/BioWare, why should I invest any more into this game? WoW gives me a ton to do with a solid presentation and an experienced developer in Blizzard....and yes I know people with scoff at that, but I am making this determination on my own accord out of what I have seen from Blizzard and not someones experience from 6 years ago. Wow has it issues. Things like RNG, bugs, and design will at times drive me nuts. However, I would still encourage someone interested to give it a try and approach with an objective mind as possible. You really have nothing to lose, if you don't like it then, so be it, it certainly isn't for everyone. However, take the negative feedback and my positive feedback all with a grain of salt. The only way you may ever answer your own question is to give it a go. If you need any help let me know I'd be happy to assist where I can. BTW, I really liked FF as well. That is a cool game. If WoW doesn't fit you and you still want an MMO...give it a go.

OP I think it depends on your definition of survive. As far as I am concerned the game didn't really survive 4.0 and 5.0 and thus why I have unsubbed. I do think the game will be online well past the summer, but not at a standard many would hope to see. While some will point to the new content coming forward, but honestly to me it is a pathetic attempt to fill a gap that should have been filled months ago. Compound that with the gearing issues the past two months and it all is really too little too late. Not to mention the trust they have destroyed with so many of the founding players. I don't know if that can ever be rebuilt.

Oh hey everyone, we can all stop posting in the forums now. This guy says every thing is okay and it is just a few people posting in the forums. I mean I don't know about all of you but I feel so much better. Don't worry about those server population drops....totally fine.... we all totally imagined that. Sarcasm aside...yes many of us understand many people leave for different reasons. You want to just pull out the parts you have a problem with and try to make a "point" about speaking for everyone. No one did that, no reasonable person has ever said all of the players left because of one single reason. That is you and your immaturity reading into that. See whether folks enjoy story, PVP, Ops, or something else....at each level the players of this game have been shafted. When you look at what TUX wrote (and not I'm not trying to "speak" for him) or what others like myself have wrote....we are advocating for an increase in content in each of these major pillars....rather than support this and raise your voice to BioWare as well....you want to pick out this "you don't speak for everyone" crap. I really do not need someone to tell me something I'm observing first hand in real time and have seen and experienced for the last several years. So to your "go look for yourself" I did go look for myself...I did go count...the hundreds of guildmates I've lost over three servers of three large guilds..... all put me at the conclusion I have. You just want to dismiss my conclusion...that's fine...that is your choice and I do understand it. Honestly I do. However, you might try looking at it from a different perspective and acknowledge the point that is trying to be made. People did that with GC and look what happened; the community came together with a very strong voice and got BioWare to make some changes. Too bad we're all too petty to support one another in regards to content. Perhaps things would have turned out differently.

TUX is dead on. How is it even an argument? There have been 100s of posts on this topic. 4.x and 5.x and destroyed this game. This "story" model sucks and clearly has impacted the player base. OP as to your question, I'm canceling my sub, enough is enough. This current dev staff needs to lose their job over the last 18 months of really bad decisions. If that were to happen and a solid expansion with the things that were mentioned earlier, then I might come back. I have been here 5 years, but the last 18 months have been pathetic. After playing ESO, FF, and WoW, the past several weeks I continue to have my eyes opened of how slighted we as a community have been in supporting this game. Those defending this nonsense need to take a step back and reconsider.

KBN, Wanted to drop in and say thank you for all you've done for the game and community over the years. As someone who is trying to evaluate where he is with the game I can completely understand your decision. Last few weeks I've been playing ESO, FF, and Legion to try and get a feel for where to focus next and I think WoW/Legion seems to be it for me. As I play those games and I begin to better understand the amount of content in comparison to this one...well it is a real eye opener compared to just reading about it on paper. Best of luck to you in the future.

I keep seeing things like this said and I really do not see how anyone can have this perspective in regards to the game always being a single player game. I have been with the game heavily since early 2012....here is how it shaped up to me personally During the development of this game, there was a tremendous amount of interest from gamers. A lot of people followed this game. Remember, this was 2010/2011, so the comparison at the time really was WoW, maybe an EQ, SWG, and other old school MMOs, but that was the lenses/measuring stick by and large players were using. There wasn't an ESO, FF, or other recently developed game to compare it to. Additionally, for the most part the BioWare name still had good reputation with the Dragon Age and Mass Effect success and more importantly the previous Star Wars games they had developed, KOTOR. That last point is worth pausing for....when players begin to realize the game was not going to be KOTOR 3, it turned a lot of them away. There was some serious crying about the fact that this was an MMO and not the single player RPG so many people had seen from the studio previously. Therefore, when you say "has always been a single player game" you really aren't considering one of the biggest complaints from the players at launch. BioWare however moved past this and continued on with the MMO. At that time BioWare made an effort to show that this was an MMO with a story feature Again, people picked up on this and immediately thought "WoW with cutscenes. Sign me up" I literally knew people who thought this game would drastically impact WoW as so many were waiting for a Sci Fi MMO Now continuing on...the game launches in late 2011. Servers are active and full, it is obvious there were a number of players exciting about the game. However, numbers quickly dropped...why? Well there were a number of reasons. First, the game was pretty buggy and poor performing. While there were already concerns about the "engine" things quickly moved into full "its the engines" fault mode. Second, players moved through the "story' content a lot quicker than what BioWare anticipated and when the players got to end game, guess what, they had nothing to do. Third, the fact it really was an MMO became really apparent. Remember leveling then was not as it is now. It took some people months to get to 50, and simply put they got bored. Now in regards to the end game at launch; it was pretty much non existent. Eternity Vault comes along and for the most part the players like it, but of course it is buggy, so more of the "the engine" sucks stuff. On top of the KP was delayed, it was really intended to be ready sooner than it was, but if I remember correctly the first boss was really problematic, but it eventually launches and along with two raids the players have some daily areas. However, the damage had been done. A lot of players left. BioWare scrambles and well here we go with Free To Play. This upset a lot of people. Remember originally on top of the subscription you had to buy this game. I think it was like $50 or $60 dollars, the collectors edition was $150, but you didn't just download it and go like today. However, Free to Play/Cartel Market seemed to stop the bleeding, then we start seeing the game find a small niche. We get 1.2, which was a very nice patch. Then along comes 2.0, the Rise of the Hutt Cartel, which was not perfect, but new planet, new story, new dailies. On top of all this we see end game development. We see Explosive Conflict, TFB, and S&V all come along. Again, things aren't perfect, but there is a healthy balance of story, end game content, and some nice quality of life improvements. A core community really developed out of this. Then in fall of 2013 I think it was, we get Oricon, with another daily area, and two more operations, which were pretty well done. We see BioWare working in the various pillars of story, operations, and PVP. Are all of them perfect, no of course not, but healthy for the most part. Now we move to 3.0, Shadow of Revan. Moderately well received but quickly released to be a little different than what we had hoped, and quite frankly buggy, especially in the operation department. Players are introduced to "hardmare" with the mechanics of story mode even being too much for some groups. On top of this the solo players are a little disappointed in the story aspects because we continue to see the loss of individual story for each of the classes. Did everyone feel this way? Certainly not I wouldn't pretend to speak for everyone. However, you can get a general sentiment from the players you play with and having been the GM of a large guild at that time, I heard these things a lot. For the most part people looked past this and continued to enjoy the game hoping future releases would be more like what we saw with 2.x. Boy were we in for a surprise. With 4.x not only did BioWare abandon the niche they had built, they leveled it. The chapters, to me personally, were clearly aimed at the "we want KOTOR 3" crowd. We could debate why all day. Maybe BioWare got hurt from the harsh feedback on SoR, maybe it was greed by cutting cost, maybe it was the new team and simply their vision. We probably will never really know. What really hurt though was the fact BioWare really never came out and said "this is our go forward" we are moving away from the MMO model. Remember, actions speak louder than words and their silence was deafening to players who had supported two of the major pillars of this game for over three years. Now, 5.x...and well we see where we are. TL: DR BioWare with this game has a track record of saying one thing, doing another. Making and breaking promises. It has cost this community time and money to support this game. The game did not launch as a single player game. Not even close. It was an MMO with pillars of Story, PVP, and end game. The original problems the game had clearly support this. I think that is why this stream tonight is so important. Which BioWare are we going to see in 2017? The one that gave us a healthy niche previously, the one that wrecked things with 5.0, or something entirely different?

I do think the OP has some legitimate grips and the BioWare response...well...others can comment on that. I will say however, that a stream regarding upcoming content has LONG been due. I personally think it is a good thing this is here, provided it is done in a manner that is informative (ie specific details) to the community. Again, not saying the other areas don't need addressed, they do, but for all of the talk and issues with GC content in which to interact with is imperative and has been sorely lacking for too long.

I personally find the whole story to be incredibly overrated, throughout all of 4.x and certainly 5.x. Maybe because I played the story as a Bounty Hunter, but it really made no sense to me. I did play a portion of the story as a Sorc, but I can't say it was much better. I think if you look past the presentation of the story there isn't much substance.

With all due respect, there has been no real significant group content for two years, so no the player base did not do this to themselves. As far as "the door being over there" well a lot of players have already walked through it and I suspect pending some really solid news tomorrow a lot more may follow. Perhaps you'll get your wish and those that have expressed concerns about GC and the amount of content will just leave. Personally I fail to see how that really helps the game and community overall. The game has pillars that have been neglected far too long. How does help the game to not support a group that wants more story, more pvp, more operations? Each of those areas should be properly supported, there is simply no reason BioWare can provide as to why it hasn't done so; other than the reason of greed.

Personally I think everything since 4.0 has been a failure. To me the game needs true expansions. Expansions containing new planets, new pvp maps, new daily areas, new operations, new flashpoints, and new chapters. Until they stop ignoring some of the pillars of the game, which they have done throughout the history of the game, it will continue to suffer. Period. Spare me they "don't have the resources" garbage. With a Star Wars brand there is no excuse for where this game is at.

You actually used the word operations under the title of New End Game Content....impressive...very impressive

Is it really funny to anyone else that the same people that are saying WoW and FF are supposedly "failing" are the same people that say this game is "successful"? WoW is not failing by any stretch of the means. FF is doing just fine and as I have discovered recently is quite fun to play. Do you people actually play these games or just make it up as you go along? Seriously, where are people getting this information?

Great post OP, completely agree I know for me personally I wonder how I would have perceived the RNG system if I simply had new content to go with it? If they had mixed the chapters into a leveling experience of say 10 levels (and a real leveling experience), across two new planets, with side quests, and chance to explore, adding new flashpoints, and two new operations ( I know I'm dreaming) and some other supplementary stuff like say new world bosses, new heroics, new PVP maps, etc.....I really wonder if the gearing system would feel the same to me. I still do not think I would like it but new content in which to absorb it would have made it easier for me personally I think. Anyways here is hoping the future is better. Cheers.

OP: From someone who has played this game since launch and started playing WoW with Legion, I think you'll have a blast with WoW. Don't worry about the gearing system being the same. While there are tons of similarities without a doubt, WoW offers a lot more detail and you can easily get all the gear you'll need for mythic dungeons and raiding. My advice coming from this game to WoW is to be patient, it may take a little time to adjust, figure out what class you want, and to navigate the content. It is not a perfect game, not by far, but with the right group of folks it is a lot of fun. If you are looking for a guild myself and a few players I know just started a new guild with a PVE casual focus on the Whisperwind server. Just message me here if you'd like the info. Best of luck to you and sorry to see you leave SWTOR

Not quite. People on these forums keep wanting to compare the SWTOR system to WoW but there are some very important details that make them very different. First, artifact power really does not have anything to do with getting the gear. The artifact in WoW is your main hand/off hand and over the course of doing a wide variety of things in game (sound familiar?) you earn artifact power to make that weapon stronger. Each class spec has a different artifact associated with it. That is what kind of makes it hard because it can be a serious investment if your goal is to max out the artifact. Now in regards to actually gear (pants, trinkets, head, gloves, etc), with the exception of the lengendary (which will come back to) there are a variety of ways to get gear, and yes some of it is RNG. However, this is where the important differences come in. In WoW you can open up the Adventure guide, click through the dungeons and raids and see what items drop from what bosses. You can then go farm that boss for what you are looking for. Is it guaranteed to drop? Nope. Is it best in slot/optimized? No probably not. It can be, but that is the RNG. However, Legion launched with a lot of new content, including World quests, which there are a ton of all which show you what you'll get from dong the quest. So yeah, there is RNG in the base gear, but I can put a plan together to build myself a pretty nice set of gear, good enough for Mythic dungeons pretty quickly. In fact we have seen a tremendous amount of players do this with alts, again all mixed in with brand new leveling zones, dungeons, raids, and all of that makes a world of difference. Now the lengardies are 100% RNG and could literally pop up from a daily quest. It is quite frustrating. SWTOR doubled down on the WoW legendary approach. They literally decided to base the whole system on the one WoW aspect than many WoW players cannot stand. On top of this they gave it Tiers, and then gated 2 and 3 year old content behind it (to a degree). Then they tossed in some basic gear for crafting, and called it good. Do you see the problem with that? I mean one aspect of this in of itself, well might could live with it. Package it all together and it is a very frustrating system for many players. Bottom line do not let people tell you that the SWTOR system is like Legion, it simply is not. The legendaries are 100% RNG but WoW offers you several other paths to get the gear you need for the content you're aiming to do and maybe most importantly they have given there player base a lot of brand new content in which to pursue those goals.

It is selective listening. Sure, adjustments to GXP gains for different stuff, great, fine, whatever. That's not the heart of the problem. The entire system is flawed in multiple ways and a lot of people, evident by the stream today, are trying to tell them them that.

Well ok, if you think a MMO should focus solely on story, without any content to the other areas of the game please go back to any single player RPG. This is an MMO, story is a feature, not a focus. It is one of the few pillars. Without the other pillars it falls and that is exactly what has and continues to happen.

Why do you say it didn't work? What evidence do you have to support what you claim? From just observation as a long term player I can clearly see since 4.0 the population of the game has clearly dropped. The servers were considerable more populated than they are today, and no people aren't just hanging out in their strongholds or on their guild ships. If the focus on story only is so good, where did folks go? Focus on story only was clearly a mistake. As others have said the story element of the game is a feature, one of the few pillars, but not the sole focus. When you ignore the other elements you hurt the game which was clearly designed to be a traditional MMO.

Matters to me as a paying customer. First, I would just like to know and second I believe HM ops are not bolstered. Absolutely looking to walk into those right away to clear a few bosses.