5.0 Sent/Mara changes.....

[zwooper]

Please note this information is second hand, but it comes from a reliable source who had posted many of the changes he found on the PTS, unfortunately BW removed the post very quickly. That said -

 

If the latest PTS model remains, the projected dps for Marauders is nothing short of a significant nerf. Just to give you an idea

 

Annihilation is going from Rank 1 to Rank 5

Carnage is going from rank 2 to rank 10

Fury is going from rank 15 to rank 11.

 

The top tier will be

 

Rank 1 Mercs [i/O]

Rank 2 Sniper [Virulence]

Rank 3 [Engineering]

Rank 4 Operative [Lethality]

 

[i might have mistaken Virulence and Engineering, it may be the reverse order, but still in those rank spots]

 

Melee will once again be subpar DPS like during 3.0. The DPS differences between the 16 specs has gotten slightly bigger.

 

Difference in DPS between Rank 1 and Rank 16 is approximately 1000 point DPS difference.

 

People have long been asking to make the dps differences closer together as to basically make any class more reasonably viable than presently for any content. BW choose to ignore this and decided to increase the margin of differences slightly.

 

Given the greater uptime that ranged already enjoys, now they will also have greater DPS than Melee so you can reasonably expect that with the greater uptime and higher dps these ranged classes, in live raids the differences in DPS output between ranged and melee will be significant. The whole point of furnishing melee with a higher dps than ranged was intended to help offset the fact that ranged enjoys. more uptime than melee as they are not as effected by certain raid mechanics that force melee to move out of attack range for various amounts of time [depending on the mechanic].

 

I'm happy Snipers got a dps buff,they are one of the only two pure dps classes in the game, but the issue of greater uptime with greater DPS output potentials will very likely result in a repeat of 3.0's "melee not wanted'/ seen as something of a liability [as ranged tend in many instances to not be a prone to taking certain kinds of damage that melee are more at risk to take] as melee will make the job on the healers harder. Making the healers jobs easier and having better DPS than melee, I think its a reasonable concern that melee are going to be the less desirable choice and thereby less wanted.

 

For myself, as someone who only plays a Carnage marauder and as a progression raider, the changes to the gearing system, the RNG factors involved, the availability of BIS gear without ever having to strep foot in an Operation and from content you can get thru using nothing but basic attack, these things were already forcing me to highly consider ending my sub and leaving the game, although I had every intention of at least giving 5.0 a try. With

the seemingly significant nerf to marauders DPS [assuming the projections seen prove to be correct], that pushed me over and essentially made the decision for me. I don't wanna go through 3.0 all over again, all the more so for what other changes are doing to progression raiding and end game PVP. I'm giving 5.0 two weeks because I had already promised my raid group that I would at least give 5.0 a try.

 

I never ever thought I'd leave the game. I was wrong.

 

You need to stop spreading BS on the forums dude.

 

To OP, dont listen to this nonsense, read the patch notes, the official live ones , from BW. and see for yourself.

 

The biggest change is now Ravage is being an instant ability

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

The thing is it seems that this utility work full time. Not only when your inspiration activated. This utility must be a pretty much must have. Imagine this one + Saber Ward heal xD

 

 

If this was a utility whereby you could get this effect full time, than yeah, that would be an outstanding utility, and as you said, virtually a must have. It would really help to offset the Marauder nerf to some degree [personally, I'd rather have the damage], better uptime, more DPS.

 

I'd be shocked if they actually gave us this utility full time. Furthermore, it might piss off people who main Annihilation marauders who have that 'healing nitche' among the specs. Than again, for the added longevity that would benefit them as well they might not really care heh.

 

Under normal circumstances, I would be against the introduction of this utility as Marauders are a pure DPS class, of all that classes, the posterboy of the 'glass canon'. But given they raped us of our top DPS, which as far as I am concerned they never should have done [pure DPS classes should have the best DPS in the game IMO], this utility would at least keep us in the fight longer - can't DPS when you're dead.

 

That I can't find any mention of this new utility anywhere [except here] gives me pause. It's not in the official release of class changes from BW nor is it listed in the datamine info, so I wouldn't get your hopes up. Like I said, I'd be shocked if they actually gave this ultility to Marauders, but no more shocked than BW fleecing us to subpar DPS status in 5.0. We never should have been nerfed as severely as it seems we will be in 5.0. I'm gonna wait and see, give 5.0 a shot despite it's many apparent short-comings. If it's as bad as it seems it may be for Marauders I'm not gonna keep letting BW reach into my pocket for the privilege to play suck.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

You need to stop spreading BS on the forums dude.

 

To OP, dont listen to this nonsense, read the patch notes, the official live ones , from BW. and see for yourself.

 

The biggest change is now Ravage is being an instant ability

 

I don't believe I am spreading BS. Everything I mention is from one of two sources, firstly, BW itself from both it's release notes and live streams, and from the current PTS. Additionally, it many of my posts on these subjects I always mention the fact that it's possible things can be changed before the actual dropping of the x-pac. In fact if you reread my post you will see that is the first thing I mention in the post.

 

If you are of the notion that Ravage is the only thing that's being changed, I'm afraid you are simply unaware of some of the other changes. That ravage is being changed from a channel to an instant ability is true, it is also true that it's damage is being nerfed in addition to Marauders DPS being nerfed significantly over all.

 

You may not care about those things, which is certainly your right, but I would be suprised if I was the only one who cared about Marauder's being nerfed. You may play lots of different classes, and perhaps you don't main a Marauder, which in either case might make the nerf of less concern to you. But not everyone plays a multitude of classes and some people main marauders and love them and remember what 3.0 was like for them.

 

The forums are about discussing things, airing concerns, sharing information, and speculating about changes. It's also about sharing opinions. This is my opinion. You may not share my opinions, and in all likelihood I don't share yours, but we're both entitled to them.

 

I'd be interested to learn which parts of my post you think is BS. The DPS chart is from the PTS. The RNG gearing system is official release information and was also demonstrated on live streams from BW. Both of which are directly from BW. Ranged having greater uptime compared to melee, generally speaking, is common knowledge.

 

Nothing would make me happier to learn that when 5.0 drops that you were right and I was wrong. I'd gladly eat my hat. I hope you're right.

Edited November 22, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Colivar]

01 - 8980 - +5.85% --- Mercenary - Innovative Ordinance || Commando - Assault Specialist

02 - 8964 - +5.65% --- Sniper - Virulence || Gunslinger - Dirty Fighting

03 - 8892 - +4.81% --- Sniper - Engineering || Gunslinger - Saboteur

04 - 8844 - +4.24% --- Operative - Lethality || Scoundrel - Ruffian

05 - 8809 - +3.83% --- Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

06 - 8717 - +2.75% --- Assassin - Deception || Shadow - Infiltration

07 - 8682 - +2.33% --- Mercenary - Arsenal || Commando - Gunnery

08 - 8673 - +2.23% --- Operative - Concealment || Scoundrel - Scrapper

09 - 8500 - +0.18% --- Juggernaut - Vengeance || Guardian - Vigilance

10 - 8493 - +0.10% --- Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

11 - 8352 - -1.56% --- Marauder - Fury || Sentinel - Concentration

12 - 8256 - -2.69% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

13 - 8226 - -3.05% --- Assassin - Hatred || Shadow - Serenity

14 - 8127 - -4.21% --- Sorcerer - Madness || Sage - Balance

15 - 8116 - -4.34% --- Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech

16 - 8098 - -4.56% --- Juggernaut - Rage || Guardian - Focus

17 - 8072 - -4.86% --- Sniper - Marksman || Gunslinger - Sharpshooter

18 - 7917 - -6.68% --- Sorcerer - Lightning || Sage - Telekinetics

 

I guess I just see things differently. When I look at that list all I see is the top 5 dps all performing extremely close to each other. We are talking within a 2% difference. If a 2% difference is enough to make you quit a class or even the game then I'm willing to bet your time playing was coming to an end sooner rather than later anyway. You could quit playing mara and just chase that #1 by rolling a merc and at the end of the day no one you play with would even notice.

 

Those sitting at #10 and lower I can see having a valid complaint. They could use a boost to bring them more in line with the top 5. There does come a point when viability is all that matters and not who gets to be #1. Being #1 is all ego. So long as everyone is competitive then everyone is viable and that is what balance is all about.

[Essodu]

Those sitting at #10 and lower I can see having a valid complaint. They could use a boost to bring them more in line with the top 5. .

 

Therein lies the problem. The majority of marauder players despise Annihilation because of the severe ability bloat it suffers from. Those of us that happen to enjoy Annihilation have learned to roll with the punches and accept that they're going to keep heaping more and more on there. Carnage, on the other hand, was competitive--theoretically stronger than Anni in most fights due to the latter's needlessly long ramp up. Carnage now, at least judging by numbers being put forward in this thread, is in a pretty rough spot. While Annihilation will likely continue to be fine (and indeed, it has rather consistently been one of the stronger DPS since the game's inception) , those individuals that find Carnage is more their style may find themselves being asked to switch to Annihilation if the difference ends up being as big in practice as it is on a dummy.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I guess I just see things differently. When I look at that list all I see is the top 5 dps all performing extremely close to each other. We are talking within a 2% difference. If a 2% difference is enough to make you quit a class or even the game then I'm willing to bet your time playing was coming to an end sooner rather than later anyway. You could quit playing mara and just chase that #1 by rolling a merc and at the end of the day no one you play with would even notice.

 

Those sitting at #10 and lower I can see having a valid complaint. They could use a boost to bring them more in line with the top 5. There does come a point when viability is all that matters and not who gets to be #1. Being #1 is all ego. So long as everyone is competitive then everyone is viable and that is what balance is all about.

 

I play a carnage marauder so rank 10 is exactly where I am sitting. Going from Rank 2 to Rank 10 is a big difference, over 5 percent. I'm not one of those people who plays a lot of different characters. I play 1. Even in the case of Annihilation, I'm not sure that it would be correct to say that it's in the top teir of the DPS order. 18 divided by 4 is 4.5. That can go either, but that's just arguing semantics, so it doesn't really matter. Annihilation is not an easy spec to do well with in live raids. I think that's pretty evident by looking at Parsley and the top performers on many boss fights. There are some who can pull it off, but it's ramp up time and susceptibility to having their rotation interrupted [just like the other specs], keeping bleeds up seamlessly can be very difficult and at times, and virtually impossible at others, for a majority of players I would think.

 

This isn't about being number 1. It's about making a pure DPS class subpar DPS. There are people who disagree with me on this point, but, I do not think pure DPS classes should be being outdpsed by classes that can switch roles, heal themselves [and others], use stealth and have 10000 CCs.

 

I think it's fair to say that ranged classes tend not to suffer as much downtime as melee classes. They also tend not to take quite as much damage because they aren't near the boss, and certain raid mechanics can be melee unfriendly. This is why melee classes need higher dps because they suffer more downtime.

 

When you give ranged classes superior DPS to melee, while having to deal with less of the above mentioned, you create a situation wherein melee are less desirable, and rightly so under those conditions.

 

What would must people rather have in Revan HM? Someone who has to run away from the boss every time he gets essence and have to wait for the healer to cleanse that character before they can get back in the fight [and have this repeated multiple times] or have a ranged dps, with superior dps to the melee, who isn'ty going to have to stop attacking the boss every ten seconds and wait until he gets cleansed again before he can do any dps beyond an errant saber throw here and there when it comes of cd, who can also heal themselves to boot to some extent if needed. That fight is a damage factory. Melee unfriendly is not the word.

 

Why on earth would you bring a Marauder, with subpar DPS to a fight like that that you know for certain is going to gaurntee that the marauder will have to stop dpsing frequently, instead of merc or a Sniper? Why would you bring an Assassin or a DPS Jugg? Why would you bring a class with less options? A 10 second raid buff isn't enough or a speed boost. It wasn't enough in 3.0.

 

We've been here before. 3.0 was not that long ago. And to be perfectly honest, I don't want to have to go thru that all over again, except this time it will be even worse.

 

PVP, I don't even know what to make of what thats going to become. Snipers and Mercs do insane damage already. Fighting Snipers as a Marauder [and certain other melee] is a nightmare. They have an answer for everything a marauder throws at them. If the player knows that class, you simply cannot stay near them. They'll chuck you, they'll slow you, and they will blast your face off if you can't get to cover, which is often the case. You can't leap to them, you can't use force choke on them, you can't interupt them. [crouched], generally speaking. If you use obfuscate, they're just gonna roll and and if you mange to get near them before 6 seconds are up, they're just gonna hard stun you so by the time its over they are no longer effected by obfuscate. Plus you have to be virtually in their face already to even use it. If they know you are coming, not easy to get to them, and not easy to stay by them. And if they are up on a ledge,or on a pipe, you can't get to them, cuz u cant leap to them. You might sneak up on one, but if they know you are coming, you're not getting to them on that pipe. Too much distance.

 

Mercs aren't quite as bad, sure they can kite you and slow you and stun you, but most of the time you can get at them at least, CCs can work on them. This of course will change in 5.0. Mercs will want you to attack them, and why not? You do that, you are hurting yourself for them and healing them at the same time, and you cant hurt them. Of course, be rest assured that they will be lighting your *** up the whole time with better DPS than you can put out.

 

It seems to me, issues of balance not only aren't being improved, they're getting worse. You have one rDPS class at Rank 1 and you have another rDPS class at rank 18. Both the same role, with an average DPS difference [balance wise] over 1000 dps. Those poor damn lightning sorcs. It's wrong to make certain classes so much worse than others that are intended to provide the same exact function for a group.

 

A lot of people will go FOTM, I'm not interested in that. I play one character. If they make it so that I can't really be competitive, as a progression raider, all along with the other changes, why would I stay? No new raids. Terrible RNG gearing system. Insane repair costs for the new gear.

 

I wasn't ready or wanting to leave this game. 5.0 has made me feel this way. - That said, I'm gonna try it. You really can't be sure about anything until it's real. So I'll give it a fair try and see if it's as bad as it seems it may be by the information we have on it.

 

Some people will be happy with 5.0, I have no doubt of that. For some it will be a vast improvement in their eyes. To each their own and more power to em.

Edited November 23, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[AndoEyrune]

Mara will still be perfectly viable in 5.0. It has a strong, fun (imo) dot spec that when played well will do enough damage for any nim content. Carnage will still have high, on demand burst, and be better for fights with many adds. No class needs to be number one in sustained damage to do well in raids. People who want to play maras should play them. Part of the fun and challenge in playing a class in hm/nim content is finding ways to maximize dps in order to do well. Edited November 23, 2016 by AndoEyrune

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Mara will still be perfectly viable in 5.0. It has a strong, fun (imo) dot spec that when played well will do enough damage for any nim content. Carnage will still have high, on demand burst, and be better for fights with many adds. No class needs to be number one in sustained damage to do well in raids. People who want to play maras should play them. Part of the fun and challenge in playing a class in hm/nim content is finding ways to maximize dps in order to do well.

 

Any class or spec can be viable in the hands of one sufficently skilled, exactly how well they will perform compared to other DPS is another matter. People play DPS assassins in PVE presently all the time, that doesn't mean they necessarily do very well in terms of DPS. And any mara spec can do well in fights with adds with sweeping slash and the 25 percent bonus to damage utility.

 

I seriously doubt Marauders will be top performers in 5.0, but nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about that. - What one finds fun is a subjective matter.

 

Please extend my regards to Monster.

Edited November 23, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[Tsetso]

I seriously doubt Marauders will be top performers in 5.0, but nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about that. - What one finds fun is a subjective matter.

 

Some of them will be for sure - the class is as good as the player behind the keyboard - but at least imo anni is not an easy spec to play well. In fact the only discipline i find harder to an extent is IO because of the terrible heat management.

[Threjyan]

 

What would must people rather have in Revan HM? Someone who has to run away from the boss every time he gets essence and have to wait for the healer to cleanse that character before they can get back in the fight [and have this repeated multiple times] or have a ranged dps, with superior dps to the melee, who isn'ty going to have to stop attacking the boss every ten seconds and wait until he gets cleansed again before he can do any dps beyond an errant saber throw here and there when it comes of cd, who can also heal themselves to boot to some extent if needed. That fight is a damage factory. Melee unfriendly is not the word.

 

I play one character [...], as a progression raider, [...]

 

 

1 - dont worry about revan or any other fight being so punishing to melee. the raider comunity is so small, people will take anything one know how to play, and plays well, not caring if its rdps or mdps, if one makes the minimuum dps required

 

2 - also, let me tell you without any salt, or irony.

 

I used to play combat sentinel in the times of 2.X era. it was glorious. 4.5 sec on precision, with rng..oh my..that was the spec to be for dp nim and df nim..then 3.0 came and butchered that class.

i had a choice upon me: either keep with that class, which i was hating due to what they did to it, or try out more classes. i choose the last one. currently now i play, at an interesting lvl, mara ani+combat+fury, merc arsenal, viru sniper, lethality op, ap pt, sin tank, op heals, sorc heals, and ofc their mirror classes (and some other roles at lower lvls of understanding, cause i dont simpathize, due to gameplay or animations), but what i mean is: dont take this as a bad thing, but a way to play other roles at competitive lvls. this way i am rarely bored with a class, and makes me able to fill in other roles required to raid, or simply a fresh breeze gameplay wise (so today i want to play op, and maybe tomorrow i wanna play sniper etc etc), being much more bored with no new content.

 

the fact they nerf so much some classes , i think its intentional, to force players, to roll other classes

 

i love my mara, but i am really thinking of going lethality op, for 5.0

[Tsetso]

1 - dont worry about revan or any other fight being so punishing to melee. the raider comunity is so small, people will take anything one know how to play, and plays well, not caring if its rdps or mdps, if one makes the minimuum dps required

 

Anything as long as it's not rage or fury

[AndoEyrune]

What would must people rather have in Revan HM? Someone who has to run away from the boss every time he gets essence and have to wait for the healer to cleanse that character before they can get back in the fight [and have this repeated multiple times] or have a ranged dps, with superior dps to the melee, who isn'ty going to have to stop attacking the boss every ten seconds and wait until he gets cleansed again before he can do any dps beyond an errant saber throw here and there when it comes of cd, who can also heal themselves to boot to some extent if needed. That fight is a damage factory. Melee unfriendly is not the word.

Maras for force camo, cloak of pain, and (soon) all instant abilities for the core.

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

1 - dont worry about revan or any other fight being so punishing to melee. the raider comunity is so small, people will take anything one know how to play, and plays well, not caring if its rdps or mdps, if one makes the minimuum dps required

 

2 - also, let me tell you without any salt, or irony.

 

I used to play combat sentinel in the times of 2.X era. it was glorious. 4.5 sec on precision, with rng..oh my..that was the spec to be for dp nim and df nim..then 3.0 came and butchered that class.

i had a choice upon me: either keep with that class, which i was hating due to what they did to it, or try out more classes. i choose the last one. currently now i play, at an interesting lvl, mara ani+combat+fury, merc arsenal, viru sniper, lethality op, ap pt, sin tank, op heals, sorc heals, and ofc their mirror classes (and some other roles at lower lvls of understanding, cause i dont simpathize, due to gameplay or animations), but what i mean is: dont take this as a bad thing, but a way to play other roles at competitive lvls. this way i am rarely bored with a class, and makes me able to fill in other roles required to raid, or simply a fresh breeze gameplay wise (so today i want to play op, and maybe tomorrow i wanna play sniper etc etc), being much more bored with no new content.

 

the fact they nerf so much some classes , i think its intentional, to force players, to roll other classes

 

i love my mara, but i am really thinking of going lethality op, for 5.0

 

The 2.X era was when I started, the 4.5 second gore window was a beautiful things,back than we even still had rapture.... now you went and got me all misty eyed out of nostalgia......=p

 

You make a good point about about the raider community being so small, and people will take anything one know how to play, there's some truth to that.

 

At the same time that's been some part of my concern with 5.0. At this time, I get a lot of people asking me to join their raids and act as a fill in [please don't mistake this as conceit], I do pretty well in raids and am able to put out some nice numbers is all, I can't help but wonder, when I won't any longer be able to pull agro, If I'll be quite so looked for any more.

 

I really find no disagreement with your response, a lot of sense in it, I just don't know if it's for me. I recognize that I am an odd duck in this game, most people have alts, most people try other things and enjoy other things. I tend to be a one hit wonder in any MMO I play and I always go for the most martially orientated class in any given game.

DDO - Fighter, LOTRO - Champion, STO - Klingon Tactical Officer, SWTOR - Marauder.

 

I'm going to give 5.0 a shot. The Mara nerf is only one of my point's of contention and concern with 5.0. I think at this point we all pretty much know where other concerns lay. Things could be different at the date of x-pac release and if not, I'll give it a few weeks to get a more realistic idea of how bad it may be than make my decision of whether to stay or to go than. I'm not optomistic, but, we'll see. Even if I do end up leaving, things can always change with patches and If I felt things changed to more acceptable levels, I would definitely come back to the game.

 

Right now I'm so disenchanted with so many of the changes in 5.0, sentiments seemingly shared by so many that I almost feel like the only way to protest what so many people find disfavorable is to speak with my wallet. At the end of the day this game is a business. They loss enough money, maybe they'll actually start listening to their customers when there are large agreements among them.

 

Fingers crossed.

[Bahadori]

Hey guys,

 

SO i've been watching this thread for a while now and I understand a lot of the points you guys are making and where you're all coming from. I don't know why but this morning I felt the need to throw my own two cents into the mix for whatever it may be worth.

 

Some know and some do not but i've been playing not only this game since Beta but the Sentinel/Marauder class itself since then. This type of discussion has been a thing literally every expansion. A lot of what you guys have been saying has been said before, 1.0 and 3.0 specifically. For the Sentinel/Marauder community this has become cyclic and more or less the nature of the beast so to speak. In 2.0 and 4.0 we thrived in the PvE arena. In 1.0 and 3.0 we suffered a good bit of hate and disdain, most of that though from our own community. I'm telling you guys now... my opinion, we'll still be very much viable for PvE content but as with 1.0 and 3.0 we'll have to be that much more proficient with our spec of choice to shine.

 

3.0 was all about Commando/Mercenary, Vanguard/Powertech, and depending on who you asked Gunslinger/Sniper or Sage/Sorcerer. The Sentinel/Marauder community had a hard time, yes, but proficient players were still able to do well and make an impact on fights. I for one remember being first or second highest DPS in most raids whether those be guild raids, progression runs, PUG runs, etc. In fact in a sea of Gunslingers, Snipers, Commando's, and Mercenaries I was able to walk away from 3.0 with the third highest parse on Parsely. Currently in 4.0 I managed the second highest. Were these lucky? Absolutely. My point however is that no matter whether we are in a good place or a bad place DPS wise in an expansion we've always had the capability to perform well inside of raids and have always been an asset to pretty much any raid composition.

 

The expansion comes out in less than a week. When that happens we'll be fully capable of determining where we stand (and our skill and proficiency) as players wrapped around all these changes. I remember in 3.0 these forums were quite literally littered with derogatory comments towards the class. It was so frustrating and annoying reading some of those comments when most of my Sentinel and Marauder friends were beating most people in live raid. That completely went away with 4.0 because we were sitting comfortably on the top. I get it, believe me. Players like feeling that they're playing the best class, the most desired class, the one that is easy to perform well. We had that in 4.0 and 2.0. Just like 1.0 and 3.0 in 5.0 we'll have to work harder and be that much more skilled and proficient to be competitive BUT I promise you we'll still be able to carry our own and be an asset to the PvE community. I love the Sentinel/Marauder class and refuse to 'Main' anything else. Have fun playing what you're playing, whatever that may be and keep working at it to be better tomorrow than you were today. That's my outlook on it and while that way of thinking is not for every player I promise you guys we'll still be more than viable and capable of being bad-asses in 5.0

 

P.S.

To those in the states (or celebrating elsewhere) Happy Thanksgiving!

[Tsetso]

Hey guys,

 

SO i've been watching this thread for a while now and I understand a lot of the points you guys are making and where you're all coming from. I don't know why but this morning I felt the need to throw my own two cents into the mix for whatever it may be worth.

 

Some know and some do not but i've been playing not only this game since Beta but the Sentinel/Marauder class itself since then. This type of discussion has been a thing literally every expansion. A lot of what you guys have been saying has been said before, 1.0 and 3.0 specifically. For the Sentinel/Marauder community this has become cyclic and more or less the nature of the beast so to speak. In 2.0 and 4.0 we thrived in the PvE arena. In 1.0 and 3.0 we suffered a good bit of hate and disdain, most of that though from our own community. I'm telling you guys now... my opinion, we'll still be very much viable for PvE content but as with 1.0 and 3.0 we'll have to be that much more proficient with our spec of choice to shine.

 

3.0 was all about Commando/Mercenary, Vanguard/Powertech, and depending on who you asked Gunslinger/Sniper or Sage/Sorcerer. The Sentinel/Marauder community had a hard time, yes, but proficient players were still able to do well and make an impact on fights. I for one remember being first or second highest DPS in most raids whether those be guild raids, progression runs, PUG runs, etc. In fact in a sea of Gunslingers, Snipers, Commando's, and Mercenaries I was able to walk away from 3.0 with the third highest parse on Parsely. Currently in 4.0 I managed the second highest. Were these lucky? Absolutely. My point however is that no matter whether we are in a good place or a bad place DPS wise in an expansion we've always had the capability to perform well inside of raids and have always been an asset to pretty much any raid composition.

 

The expansion comes out in less than a week. When that happens we'll be fully capable of determining where we stand (and our skill and proficiency) as players wrapped around all these changes. I remember in 3.0 these forums were quite literally littered with derogatory comments towards the class. It was so frustrating and annoying reading some of those comments when most of my Sentinel and Marauder friends were beating most people in live raid. That completely went away with 4.0 because we were sitting comfortably on the top. I get it, believe me. Players like feeling that they're playing the best class, the most desired class, the one that is easy to perform well. We had that in 4.0 and 2.0. Just like 1.0 and 3.0 in 5.0 we'll have to work harder and be that much more skilled and proficient to be competitive BUT I promise you we'll still be able to carry our own and be an asset to the PvE community. I love the Sentinel/Marauder class and refuse to 'Main' anything else. Have fun playing what you're playing, whatever that may be and keep working at it to be better tomorrow than you were today. That's my outlook on it and while that way of thinking is not for every player I promise you guys we'll still be more than viable and capable of being bad-asses in 5.0

 

P.S.

To those in the states (or celebrating elsewhere) Happy Thanksgiving!

 

On a side note, when can we expect the 5.0 guide?

[AndoEyrune]

Hey guys,

 

SO i've been watching this thread for a while now and I understand a lot of the points you guys are making and where you're all coming from. I don't know why but this morning I felt the need to throw my own two cents into the mix for whatever it may be worth.

 

Some know and some do not but i've been playing not only this game since Beta but the Sentinel/Marauder class itself since then. This type of discussion has been a thing literally every expansion. A lot of what you guys have been saying has been said before, 1.0 and 3.0 specifically. For the Sentinel/Marauder community this has become cyclic and more or less the nature of the beast so to speak. In 2.0 and 4.0 we thrived in the PvE arena. In 1.0 and 3.0 we suffered a good bit of hate and disdain, most of that though from our own community. I'm telling you guys now... my opinion, we'll still be very much viable for PvE content but as with 1.0 and 3.0 we'll have to be that much more proficient with our spec of choice to shine.

 

3.0 was all about Commando/Mercenary, Vanguard/Powertech, and depending on who you asked Gunslinger/Sniper or Sage/Sorcerer. The Sentinel/Marauder community had a hard time, yes, but proficient players were still able to do well and make an impact on fights. I for one remember being first or second highest DPS in most raids whether those be guild raids, progression runs, PUG runs, etc. In fact in a sea of Gunslingers, Snipers, Commando's, and Mercenaries I was able to walk away from 3.0 with the third highest parse on Parsely. Currently in 4.0 I managed the second highest. Were these lucky? Absolutely. My point however is that no matter whether we are in a good place or a bad place DPS wise in an expansion we've always had the capability to perform well inside of raids and have always been an asset to pretty much any raid composition.

 

The expansion comes out in less than a week. When that happens we'll be fully capable of determining where we stand (and our skill and proficiency) as players wrapped around all these changes. I remember in 3.0 these forums were quite literally littered with derogatory comments towards the class. It was so frustrating and annoying reading some of those comments when most of my Sentinel and Marauder friends were beating most people in live raid. That completely went away with 4.0 because we were sitting comfortably on the top. I get it, believe me. Players like feeling that they're playing the best class, the most desired class, the one that is easy to perform well. We had that in 4.0 and 2.0. Just like 1.0 and 3.0 in 5.0 we'll have to work harder and be that much more skilled and proficient to be competitive BUT I promise you we'll still be able to carry our own and be an asset to the PvE community. I love the Sentinel/Marauder class and refuse to 'Main' anything else. Have fun playing what you're playing, whatever that may be and keep working at it to be better tomorrow than you were today. That's my outlook on it and while that way of thinking is not for every player I promise you guys we'll still be more than viable and capable of being bad-asses in 5.0

 

P.S.

To those in the states (or celebrating elsewhere) Happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks for the input Hayete, it's great to see this optimism from a fellow marauder/sent progression raider .

[Bonzenaattori]

Hey guys,

 

SO i've been watching this thread for a while now and I understand a lot of the points you guys are making and where you're all coming from. I don't know why but this morning I felt the need to throw my own two cents into the mix for whatever it may be worth.

 

Some know and some do not but i've been playing not only this game since Beta but the Sentinel/Marauder class itself since then. This type of discussion has been a thing literally every expansion. A lot of what you guys have been saying has been said before, 1.0 and 3.0 specifically. For the Sentinel/Marauder community this has become cyclic and more or less the nature of the beast so to speak. In 2.0 and 4.0 we thrived in the PvE arena. In 1.0 and 3.0 we suffered a good bit of hate and disdain, most of that though from our own community. I'm telling you guys now... my opinion, we'll still be very much viable for PvE content but as with 1.0 and 3.0 we'll have to be that much more proficient with our spec of choice to shine.

 

3.0 was all about Commando/Mercenary, Vanguard/Powertech, and depending on who you asked Gunslinger/Sniper or Sage/Sorcerer. The Sentinel/Marauder community had a hard time, yes, but proficient players were still able to do well and make an impact on fights. I for one remember being first or second highest DPS in most raids whether those be guild raids, progression runs, PUG runs, etc. In fact in a sea of Gunslingers, Snipers, Commando's, and Mercenaries I was able to walk away from 3.0 with the third highest parse on Parsely. Currently in 4.0 I managed the second highest. Were these lucky? Absolutely. My point however is that no matter whether we are in a good place or a bad place DPS wise in an expansion we've always had the capability to perform well inside of raids and have always been an asset to pretty much any raid composition.

 

The expansion comes out in less than a week. When that happens we'll be fully capable of determining where we stand (and our skill and proficiency) as players wrapped around all these changes. I remember in 3.0 these forums were quite literally littered with derogatory comments towards the class. It was so frustrating and annoying reading some of those comments when most of my Sentinel and Marauder friends were beating most people in live raid. That completely went away with 4.0 because we were sitting comfortably on the top. I get it, believe me. Players like feeling that they're playing the best class, the most desired class, the one that is easy to perform well. We had that in 4.0 and 2.0. Just like 1.0 and 3.0 in 5.0 we'll have to work harder and be that much more skilled and proficient to be competitive BUT I promise you we'll still be able to carry our own and be an asset to the PvE community. I love the Sentinel/Marauder class and refuse to 'Main' anything else. Have fun playing what you're playing, whatever that may be and keep working at it to be better tomorrow than you were today. That's my outlook on it and while that way of thinking is not for every player I promise you guys we'll still be more than viable and capable of being bad-asses in 5.0

 

P.S.

To those in the states (or celebrating elsewhere) Happy Thanksgiving!

 

Yeah like I said before, we're just set up to look trash and then we will prove everybody wrong. For the 6th time now

 

I think people are over-thinking this, and what can possibly stop them, but what started out as theory crafting has turned into a whining pool. Sad that ppl in this community have lost their motivation for optimism, and who can blame them -_-

 

Oh well, I don't celebrate it but have a good thxgiving x)

[Bahadori]

On a side note, when can we expect the 5.0 guide?

 

In short mate I have no clue. Myself and several other guide writers/theorycrafters were not invited by Bioware into the 5.0 Beta so i've not had time to really see anything or figure anything out for myself. All of that testing and what not will unfortunately be done as the expansion releases which greatly infringes on releasing a guide in a timely manner. On top of that any guide i release (at least at the moment) will be exclusive to my website only. I've yet to receive an invitation by Dulfy.net to write the 5.0 guide. This close to the expansion release if it has not come yet it probably wont if i'm comparing to the sequence and timing of events moving into 4.0. So with that said whoever writes the 5.0 guide (since it's looking right now like it will not be me) if they do a good job i'll let them hold the reigns and endorse it. If however I disagree with it or feel it is incomplete i'll write my own (similar to how I did for 3.0). Regardless i'm pretty sure I was the only guide writer from 4.0 to reply to every comment received on both Combat and Carnage guides, which i feel is an important part of being a guide writer... answering questions from players and helping them out. Hopefully whoever takes over for 5.0 will have the same philosophy.

 

Thanks for the input Hayete, it's great to see this optimism from a fellow marauder/sent progression raider .

 

Thanks brother. I just don't want people to freak out or over exaggerate the situation for those who may have only recently started playing. We go through this off and on type thing every expansion so I just want people to be realistic and understand there's no need to panic and we'll be fine. As long as the forums aren't littered in 5.0 with "Sentinel/Marauder sucks reroll" then i'll be happy

[Threjyan]

Thanks brother. I just don't want people to freak out or over exaggerate the situation for those who may have only recently started playing. We go through this off and on type thing every expansion so I just want people to be realistic and understand there's no need to panic and we'll be fine. As long as the forums aren't littered in 5.0 with "Sentinel/Marauder sucks reroll" then i'll be happy

 

sents and marauders dont suck..only carnage/combat sucks

 

[Tsetso]

sents and marauders dont suck..only carnage/combat sucks

 

 

Yep, primus sucks

[g_mK]

First, though lots of people complained during 3.0 era about how bad sentinel was, it was proven that not only was sentinel viable for all fights but carnage was actually the second highest parsing spec in game at the time (though we may have found out that last one a little too late).

 

Second, though bants numbers are a good guide, let's remember that he makes a lot of assumptions, he is a good programmer/theorycrafter but he does lack the in depth knowledge of many specs that other players have by focusing on that single spec. Bant relies a lot on these people for creating his model since he uses their rotations to calculate dps.

In the case of combat I know that he came out with a rotation based on datamining for his original list for 5.0, I gave him a new rotation also based on what I know of datamined information that was better by about 100dps. It is most likely that another even better rotation is found once we see the full changes and the better sentinels/marauders are able to spend time dummy parsing.

 

Lastly remember that all datamined stuff will likely change and we won't know the actual standing of combat until tomorrow. Let us also not forget that being at the top of an average dps chart is irrelevant as long as combat/carnage are able to clear all content.

[jauvtus]

First, though lots of people complained during 3.0 era about how bad sentinel was, it was proven that not only was sentinel viable for all fights but carnage was actually the second highest parsing spec in game at the time (though we may have found out that last one a little too late).

 

Second, though bants numbers are a good guide, let's remember that he makes a lot of assumptions, he is a good programmer/theorycrafter but he does lack the in depth knowledge of many specs that other players have by focusing on that single spec. Bant relies a lot on these people for creating his model since he uses their rotations to calculate dps.

In the case of combat I know that he came out with a rotation based on datamining for his original list for 5.0, I gave him a new rotation also based on what I know of datamined information that was better by about 100dps. It is most likely that another even better rotation is found once we see the full changes and the better sentinels/marauders are able to spend time dummy parsing.

 

Lastly remember that all datamined stuff will likely change and we won't know the actual standing of combat until tomorrow. Let us also not forget that being at the top of an average dps chart is irrelevant as long as combat/carnage are able to clear all content.

 

Problem is, there is a chance the best sents/maras will never get BiS gear so we never find out the true highest potential dps

[Flusssaeure]

So with that said whoever writes the 5.0 guide (since it's looking right now like it will not be me) if they do a good job i'll let them hold the reigns and endorse it. If however I disagree with it or feel it is incomplete i'll write my own (similar to how I did for 3.0). Regardless i'm pretty sure I was the only guide writer from 4.0 to reply to every comment received on both Combat and Carnage guides, which i feel is an important part of being a guide writer... answering questions from players and helping them out. Hopefully whoever takes over for 5.0 will have the same philosophy.

 

While I'm personally prefer range DD, I wanted to try different classes to see how different classes play and it was your guide and your answers to questions in the comment section why I did choose Carnage for my marauder. So at least from my point of view you did a good job as a guide writer. And if it was something about you why you wasn't invited as a guide writer, other than not being invited to the Beta and Beta tester getting preferred to publish the Guides faster, I wouldn't understand that.

 

But with the complaints from different guide writers that the mirror version of their 4.X guide wasn't published despite being send in to gether with the version for the other faction, some comments from Dulfy about what was said in the live streams I honestly was asking my self if we will get 5.0 class guides from Dulfy at all.

 

If you publish your guide on your webside instead of Dulfy I will point the Marauder players of my guild to your webside instead of Dulfy.

 

Do you have plans to continue your operation video guides for 5.0? At least the damage calculations will be no longer up to date.

 

Thanks brother. I just don't want people to freak out or over exaggerate the situation for those who may have only recently started playing. We go through this off and on type thing every expansion so I just want people to be realistic and understand there's no need to panic and we'll be fine. As long as the forums aren't littered in 5.0 with "Sentinel/Marauder sucks reroll" then i'll be happy

 

My main is a Lightning sorcerer, so I spend the last days of 4.7 to get as many 220 token for my arsenal mercenary

as possible just in case the class changes will be as bad as every one say they are. Just in case that the old set bonus is better than no set bonus at all until I have enough command levels. However I still hope for the best.

[Bahadori]

Do you have plans to continue your operation video guides for 5.0? At least the damage calculations will be no longer up to date.

 

In short, yes. There a lot of things that are going to need to happen first so they will not be rolling out right away but the Phalanx Squad project will be continuing on in 5.0. With that said part of the project will be updating the DPS figures for the guides already released. I'm still deciding on how exactly i'll be doing that but it will be coming.

[kenskog]

All hail Lord Hayete !

Please tell us what buttons to press. Thinking is hard and kinda hurts

 

Kidding aside, your guides have been a tremendous help , especially for those with limited time do play.

Cheers !