5.0 Sent/Mara changes.....

[Machricar]

Hayete are those alacrity numbers based on in game timings? Because as far as I know, we're currently benefiting from the double stance bug as well, so in game alacrity will be 3% higher than it should be.

[Bahadori]

Hayete are those alacrity numbers based on in game timings? Because as far as I know, we're currently benefiting from the double stance bug as well, so in game alacrity will be 3% higher than it should be.

 

Yes. Until otherwise fixed or mentioned by the devs i'm running numbers against the live format of the game. If/when they hotfix the 6% Alacrity down to the 3% we're use to then it'll be a simple integer replacement and re-parsing of the model. Here's to hoping it stays 6% Either that or they can take their damn 3% back and reduce the cost of Lance/Gore!

[Essodu]

Either that or they can take their damn 3% back and reduce the cost of Lance/Gore!

 

Knowing them, they'll probably increase the cost instead. Because perpetual rage starvation is definitely a "streamlined" playstyle.

[g_mK]

6% Alacrity is one bug I hope that stays, I happen to enjoy combat flirting with 50% alacrity under zen:D

 

I worked out math for 5.0 rotation, here is what I got, if you find any errors feel free to point them up. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yUq6oEmbIHHw0X9bBSnjLVaF8FLkfLDg_Es_UI2cncM/edit#gid=1000269019

I reviewed all damage values against live tool tips and nothing has changed outside Ravage. I few things to not is that my rotation is 1gcd shorter than Beastfury's but encounters the problem that the added time of all gcds from the non zen PS window to the zen PS window are shorter time than the CD of PS, so I added .33 seconds to the length in order to properly clip TST into PS. The other issue is that I'm not entirely sure right now how to deal with the drifting of HoJ that may cause Dispatch not to be available for the second PS window. In practice I've found myself alternating between both rotations depending on Dispatch usage and proc time. One thing both rotations do and that is the core of 5.0 combat is that we include the exact same abilities into PS.

 

Related to the topic of alacrity, I been able to successfully do TST/Dispatch>PS>CB>BB>Lance with Lance falling inside PS at low levels of alacrity (800ish).

[Machricar]

Not sure if this is known, but looking through my parse logs today, it seems that massacre's damage doesn't suffer from travel time. I noticed several 10k+ crits on massacres who's damage was applied >0.3 s after ferocity fell off, which seems to indicate that the damage is set when the ability is cast rather than when the damage is dealt. http://parsely.io/parser/view/219564 Here's a link of a parse with a bunch of massacres that shows this effect. You can see this at 18:39:15, 18:39:57, and 18:40:18, where ferocity falls off and massacre still deals ~10k damage 0.4 - 0.6 s later. I've been toying with ending my 4 attack ferocity windows with massacre, and it's seemed to buy me a lot more wiggle room on the timing required. Edited December 9, 2016 by Machricar

[WiththeForc]

Not sure if this is known, but looking through my parse logs today, it seems that massacre's damage doesn't suffer from travel time. I noticed several 10k+ crits on massacres who's damage was applied >0.3 s after ferocity fell off, which seems to indicate that the damage is set when the ability is cast rather than when the damage is dealt. http://parsely.io/parser/view/219564 Here's a link of a parse with a bunch of massacres that shows this effect. You can see this at 18:39:15, 18:39:57, and 18:40:18, where ferocity falls off and massacre still deals ~10k damage 0.4 - 0.6 s later. I've been toying with ending my 4 attack ferocity windows with massacre, and it's seemed to buy me a lot more wiggle room on the timing required.

 

I've noticed that with both db and gore as well tbh, having them apply damage as much as 0.2 sec after Ferocity falls off but still dealing the full damage

[Machricar]

That's weird, I checked a couple parses and for me I only get the buff on DB if it landed in the ferocity window. I haven't checked with gore yet.

[Ardarell_Solo]

Thanks for all your input here, I'm following this discussion closely.

 

Beast, what's your average item level atm? How much Crit rating can you afford, when you need your alacrity at 1250ish?

 

Thing is: It looks like the optimal rotation for this spec can not be played at lower gear level (If you do it the way Bant suggests you need 240 item level to get sufficient alacrity (at least for an average player)).

 

That would be very bad class design imo.

 

Also, the optimal rotation at high gear level will probably outperform the dot spec for the class - which leads me to think that balancing on Combat/Carnage is being done for 2 abilities inside Precision, maybe 3 under Zen. Devs are certainly not accounting for clipping in, they've never done that.

 

I really do think Precision should be changed to a stack system with stacks being consumed on triggering the ability. Then the corresponding damage of the ability (MH & OH) should be buffed accordingly. E.g. activating Precision grants two stacks - three stacks when activated under Zen/Berserk.

 

That would also make the specc less susceptible to stuns/knockbacks etc in PVP and to server lag or melee unfriendly combat design in PvE.

 

Good players could still make a difference deciding which ability to use under Precision and handle resources / Centering in advance imo.

[Bahadori]

Thanks for all your input here, I'm following this discussion closely.

 

Beast, what's your average item level atm? How much Crit rating can you afford, when you need your alacrity at 1250ish?

 

Thing is: It looks like the optimal rotation for this spec can not be played at lower gear level (If you do it the way Bant suggests you need 240 item level to get sufficient alacrity (at least for an average player)).

 

That would be very bad class design imo.

 

Also, the optimal rotation at high gear level will probably outperform the dot spec for the class - which leads me to think that balancing on Combat/Carnage is being done for 2 abilities inside Precision, maybe 3 under Zen. Devs are certainly not accounting for clipping in, they've never done that.

 

I really do think Precision should be changed to a stack system with stacks being consumed on triggering the ability. Then the corresponding damage of the ability (MH & OH) should be buffed accordingly. E.g. activating Precision grants two stacks - three stacks when activated under Zen/Berserk.

 

That would also make the specc less susceptible to stuns/knockbacks etc in PVP and to server lag or melee unfriendly combat design in PvE.

 

Good players could still make a difference deciding which ability to use under Precision and handle resources / Centering in advance imo.

 

I came to the EXACT same conclusions and my math model supports it. They definitely fell short on the math when designing all of this for 5.0. I too agree a stack system would be best but we've been petitioning for that god since 2.0 I think. They do what they want with or without feedback from those putting in the legwork and who know these specs inside and out.

[WiththeForc]

Beast, what's your average item level atm? How much Crit rating can you afford, when you need your alacrity at 1250ish?

 

Also, the optimal rotation at high gear level will probably outperform the dot spec for the class - which leads me to think that balancing on Combat/Carnage is being done for 2 abilities inside Precision, maybe 3 under Zen. Devs are certainly not accounting for clipping in, they've never done that.

 

Currently using a 234 and 236 implant for my alacrity with the rest coming from augments. As for crit, I am unsure how much I have since I'm not at my computer, but thanks to clearing most of Master Mode, I do have access to 240 crafted crit and acc enhancements as well.

 

As for the second statement, the devs bother me. I'll try not to be too salty here, but clipping has pretty much been an option to boost dps since gore was off the gcd, and now it's just a more apparent option for the better part of the last year. When your playerbase has a better understanding of the game than the devs, yet they don't take sed playerbase's opinions or help into account, there is an issue imo.

Edited December 9, 2016 by WiththeForc

[Ardarell_Solo]

When your playerbase has a better understanding of the game than the devs, yet they don't take sed playerbase's opinions or help into account, there is an issue imo.

 

Absolutely!

[armandtorneau]

So when will yall guide makers start making 5.0 guides? it's been 8 days already.

[kenskog]

They make guides because the they want to help the community, not because they are supposed to.

 

Just chill, they get there when they get there :-)

[WiththeForc]

So when will yall guide makers start making 5.0 guides? it's been 8 days already.

 

Holdin out on my contract, tryin ta get more money outta this deal kappa

Edited December 11, 2016 by WiththeForc

[Bahadori]

Holdin out on my contract, tryin ta get more money outta this deal kappa

 

Did Dulfy commission you for 5.0 Beast?

[g_mK]

Holdin out on my contract, tryin ta get more money outta this deal kappa

 

Remember to tell your agent to make sure you keep those merchandising rights, specially for the Beastfury action figure.

[armandtorneau]

Holdin out on my contract, tryin ta get more money outta this deal kappa

 

you greedy sons of a jawa Kappa

Edited December 12, 2016 by armandtorneau

[Chemists]

Holdin

I see what you did there

[WiththeForc]

did dulfy commission you for 5.0 beast?

 

k a p p a

Edited December 12, 2016 by WiththeForc