Player Moderators

[EnzoForMe]

When I was younger I played a MMO called Runescape and it had 1 great feature that I wish Bioware would institute in swtor.

 

Exemplary players with no history of significant rule breaking, strong account security and active participation in positively contributing to the community were potentially eligible to become "player moderators". They played the game normally like everyone else, but they were able to mute/ban rulebreaking players for 24-48 hours and elevate a formal, prioritized report to the game's developers.

 

A 60 second snap shot immediately prior to the report submission was automatically included as evidence. Additional written explanation could be added onto the report after the snapshot was locked in. Bioware could use the same or different method of evidencing like sticking a ticket to a chat sequence depending on technology capabilities.

 

So players could recognize them, player moderators had a special icon next to their name (kind of like the legendary player icon in this game) and it also showed up when they would type something in chat.

 

In addition, the player moderators had a private forum with a direct line to the developers to keep them up to date on new cheats/exploits.

 

Because they were able to make reports both in-game and on the private forum that contained all the info the devs needed, the devs in turn could act more quickly. I would guess the vast majority of current player-submitted reports are missing key information, and player moderators can more efficiently and reliably submit reports because they know the right format.

 

Anyone who blatantly abused their power was de-modded and/or banned from the game permanently. I don't recall that ever being an issue because players chosen had a lot of time invested in the game and were positive contributors to the community.

 

It was a brilliant system because responsible and reliable players could remove offenders from the community quickly and elevate it to the developer for quicker action to be taken. If we could have representation from a few player moderators from each aspect of the game per server (for pvp, pve, rp, gsf) I think this game would be much better for it- especially in the areas of solo ranked, fleet credit spammers, and extraordinarily offensive rhetoric as defined by Bioware. Player moderators would have privileges applied to their account so any server they play on/transfer to could benefit from their presence.

 

At the end of the day, the player moderator program would make players a more important part of the community and give the right ones the abillity to provide a better gaming atmosphere for the playerbase at large.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EnzoForMe

[FlavivsAetivs]

Runescape was awesome, and yeah that was actually a pretty good system.

 

~ Eudoxia

[kissingaiur]

This is such a wonderful suggestion, I highly support this. I have seen this in a lot of games. It is something that is successful and helps keep everything friendly/respectful IG without developers needing to handhold the chats and community.

 

Just imagine every time a gold spammer said something or someone kept spamming something extremely inappropriate that a mod can just mute them on the spot? Oh god if I was a mod I would personally stay on for hours muting bots and edgy people who spam the "N" word in general chat.

 

I would also suggest that when a IG mod chooses mute or report something they should be able to stick the ticket on exactly what the person said when they muted them. This will help developers identify quickly if a mod is abusing their power when it cames to muting.

 

Thank you for posting such a wonderful idea Caprica, I hope the developers take this seriously.

[dr_mike]

As someone who once had a Top 25 Alexa website's support forum dumped on his without even a "Can you do this?" beforehand, moderating without official backing (ie being an employee) is not something that's a whole lot of fun.

 

It's also a whole lot of fun having your you know what chewed out simply because a single thread that had been posted while I was asleep was in the wrong subforum and I hadn't gotten to moving it yet.

 

*snip*

 

You do realize that your own post is against the rules and therefore you would have been moderated, right?

 

I don't say that to be negative but simply to point out that moderator is a slippery sloop.

 

It's all moot anyway. Staff is unwilling to discuss forum conduct and procedures anyway.

Edited October 31, 2016 by dr_mike

[EnzoForMe]

I can't speak for your experiences, but I know in Runescape the player moderators didn't have a quota to meet or any spelled out obligation to act. The company basically empowered the right players to make rules-based judgement calls through temporary action that could be reviewed and acted upon by the developer. If you are getting chewed out as a volunteer moderator, that speaks more to the culture of the developer than the system itself. It's very important to define expectations for the player moderators. It's not meant to be a second job, but rather an added layer of protection for the playerbase and the gaming experience.

 

Runescape has been around for over a decade with a large, active population and the player moderator function has always been a staple of the game and one very well received by the community there.

 

My focus is in-game, not moderation of the forums. Runescape had player forum moderators as well, but I think the in-game moderator is more relevant to this game so I'm defining the scope of this suggestion only to in-game.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EnzoForMe

[CaptRogue]

You do realize that your own post is against the rules and therefore you would have been moderated, right?

 

I don't say that to be negative but simply to point out that moderator is a slippery sloop.

 

It's all moot anyway. Staff is unwilling to discuss forum conduct and procedures anyway.

 

His post was not against Forum rules. What are you on?? lol

He made a complete suggestion. Was not moderating his own thread nor talking about someone who has moderated a thread/instances, etc... You're reading way too much into that.

 

OP your suggestion is brilliant. I only wish BW would implement something like that in this game. It would be well received. Trolling would be scaled way back.

[casirabit]

You would have to be very careful with this. Even a person that has never had any trouble or problems in the past create a problem when moderating. Some people can handle it but then some can't and it goes to their head. This is where it becomes a very slippery slope in having players that moderate.

 

What some one considers trolling someone else might not. In addition some people don't mind some of the words people use but then there are those that are very reserve and do not like to see those words used.

Edited October 31, 2016 by casirabit

[EnzoForMe]

You would have to be very careful with this. Even a person that has never had any trouble or problems in the past create a problem when moderating. Some people can handle it but then some can't and it goes to their head. This is where it becomes a very slippery slope in having players that moderate.

 

What some one considers trolling someone else might not. In addition some people don't mind some of the words people use but then there are those that are very reserve and do not like to see those words used.

 

You're absolutely correct and thank you for your input. It's imperative to not only choose the right players, but monitor them and ensure they are acting as an extension of the developer's policies and not their own personal agendas.

 

You mentioned offensive language- and this is really important and goes back to defining expectations. There would be guidelines on what can be acted on. For example, we wouldn't want a player moderator to mute someone with an opposing political viewpoint if it's being communicated fairly- that would be unjust. But to Anna's point, if someone is constantly calling other folks the N word, I think most people (and the developer) would agree a mute is in order.

 

For offensive language, it's about muting extreme offenders that goes way above and beyond game banter. For example, a player moderator can't ban someone for "ninja looting". But for a different type of trolling like repeatedly throwing solo ranked games which is defined as against the rules and a bannable offense, a player moderator could act fully backed by the established policies of Bioware.

 

Every action taken by a player moderator must be justified in the formal, prioritized report that I mentioned with references to rules broken. This doesn't mean each report requires an essay, some can use pre-populated explanations for routine action (a credit spammer, for example). In Runescape, a 60 second snapshot prior to the report is taken to provide evidence. Any wrongful action taken by the player moderator is grounds for loss of privileges or ban from the game if particularly egregious.

 

Players who become player moderators are under scrutiny by the developer to act in good faith.

 

I've updated my OP in regards to evidencing, thanks!

Edited October 31, 2016 by EnzoForMe

[dr_mike]

His post was not against Forum rules. What are you on?? lol

He made a complete suggestion. Was not moderating his own thread nor talking about someone who has moderated a thread/instances, etc... You're reading way too much into that.

 

Thank you for proving my point. You may want to take a second and reread the subforum rules.

 

Again it's all moot anyway as they refuse to discuss this matter.

Edited October 31, 2016 by dr_mike

[EnzoForMe]

Thank you for proving my point. You may want to take a second and reread the subforum rules.

 

Again it's all moot anyway as they refuse to discuss this matter.

 

Nothing in that link leads me to believe my suggestion is against the rules. You are fully able to flag my post if you have a concern, but I believe we are in the lines and this topic is important to me, as is the ongoing discussion about what-ifs and feedback from other players on whether they would like this system.

[EnzoForMe]

This is such a wonderful suggestion, I highly support this. I have seen this in a lot of games. It is something that is successful and helps keep everything friendly/respectful IG without developers needing to handhold the chats and community.

 

Just imagine every time a gold spammer said something or someone kept spamming something extremely inappropriate that a mod can just mute them on the spot? Oh god if I was a mod I would personally stay on for hours muting bots and edgy people who spam the "N" word in general chat.

 

I would also suggest that when a IG mod chooses mute or report something they should be able to stick the ticket on exactly what the person said when they muted them. This will help developers identify quickly if a mod is abusing their power when it cames to muting.

 

Thank you for posting such a wonderful idea Caprica, I hope the developers take this seriously.

 

Thanks Anna! I like the idea of evidencing by sticking a ticket to the chat. if this program was ever instituted I think you'd be a great Harbinger player mod pvp representative with all you've done to positively influence the community through your charity fundraisers and class guides as well as an awareness of types of rulebreaking in ranked.

Edited October 31, 2016 by EnzoForMe

[fyremanhfd]

Enzo, thanks for your excellent post; I think this is a great suggestion, and I would support it. This is what we need; more people presenting solutions, not just endless complaints. Just wanted to show my support

[LadyHF]

I agree with this suggestion 100%, and its a great one but as many said this would have to be very closely monitored and the rules enforced or some could abuse their priveleges then more bad then good would come out of it.

 

snapshot we already have in a way, if you report someone from chat for anything other then spam-for some reason then it doesn't, the last roughly 90 sec of chat is included in the report-they could expand on that. whether BW is ever going to implement this? who knows. it would deffinietly help out in banning the players who are breaking the rules, espeially during the weekened when the mods dont work and tickets aren't even getting looked at most of the time until monday.

Edited October 31, 2016 by LadyHF

[EnzoForMe]

I agree with this suggestion 100%, and its a great one but as many said this would have to be very closely monitored and the rules enforced or some could abuse their priveleges then more bad then good would come out of it.

 

snapshot we already have in a way, if you report someone from chat for anything other then spam-for some reason then it doesn't, the last roughly 90 sec of chat is included in the report-they could expand on that. whether BW is ever going to implement this? who knows. it would deffinietly help out in banning the players who are breaking the rules, espeially during the weekened when the mods dont work and tickets aren't even getting looked at most of the time until monday.

 

Thanks Lady! Yeah monitoring/oversight is key. Runescape has a huge playerbase and has been able to have its player moderator system for over a decade. I'm confident it can be done carefully and correctly.

[EnzoForMe]

Enzo, thanks for your excellent post; I think this is a great suggestion, and I would support it. This is what we need; more people presenting solutions, not just endless complaints. Just wanted to show my support

 

Thank you!

[Hoplop]

Early Everquest had a system similar to the one you propose with their player "guides".

 

The players who volunteered for this had to submit an involved application. All of us who were selected were assigned to servers we did not play on (no created characters). We had to commit to many hours of online work a week to this task as well as submit a written report after each "guide" session.

 

Guides could not and did not punish players for in game infractions. If anything objectionable was observed it was included in the daily report for the server's GM to evaluate. Guides WERE able to move players when they were stuck in the environment and help out with GM server special events. Guides who broke rules were disciplined harshly.

 

This system was labor intensive and there was a high dropout rate. With the required reports a volunteer could easily have to spend 20 hours a week doing this. I only lasted 10 months before I burned out and quit.

 

Any system created would have to have oversight built in to insure that these player helpers didn't abuse the system to help friends or hinder foes. This would involve having additional paid staff assigned to this on Bioware's end. I don't see that happening.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Hoplop

[Limariko]

I never played Runescape or Everquest but the idea of player moderators does sound very intriguing. It would definitely keep the credit sellers guessing since a person can pick out an advert far quicker and more reliably than having to rely on an algorithim that's going to have to be readjusted when the sellers figure a way past it.

 

Going from what others in the thread have said, I could see this being implemented through someone interested having to apply for the position and should they get it, they're assigned to a server they don't have characters on. A schedule would have to be worked out for adequate coverage and having a ban option that either screenshot the offense or attached the text of what was said as evidence would be crucial.

 

An oversight position would be needed to look into complaints to ensure the moderators were not abusing their station.

 

If some form of compensation for the mods was needed for the time spent modding, that could be anything from some in game tchotchkes or a small stipend of cartel coins.

[EnzoForMe]

Early Everquest had a system similar to the one you propose with their player "guides".

 

The players who volunteered for this had to submit an involved application. All of us who were selected were assigned to servers we did not play on (no created characters). We had to commit to many hours of online work a week to this task as well as submit a written report after each "guide" session.

 

Guides could not and did not punish players for in game infractions. If anything objectionable was observed it was included in the daily report for the server's GM to evaluate. Guides WERE able to move players when they were stuck in the environment and help out with GM server special events. Guides who broke rules were disciplined harshly.

 

This system was labor intensive and there was a high dropout rate. With the required reports a volunteer could easily have to spend 20 hours a week doing this. I only lasted 10 months before I burned out and quit.

 

Any system created would have to have oversight built in to insure that these player helpers didn't abuse the system to help friends or hinder foes. This would involve having additional paid staff assigned to this on Bioware's end. I don't see that happening.

 

Thanks for sharing this, it's interesting to hear how it was handled in other games. It sounds quite different from my experience with the Runescape player moderator.

 

I think it's important to ensure that player moderators are given additional privileges to make the game environment better without requiring too much added time on their end. From my understanding in Runescape, a player moderator had no quota to meet and had no obligation to act on anything they saw. But they could take action if they had a rules-based reason to do so.

 

Also, there is no application for Runescape player moderators. They are chosen by the developer.

 

IMO player moderators should be able to make judgement calls and take temporary action but the developer shouldn't expect any crazy time commitment; merely the player's normal game time with a small added time commitment whenever you would submit a report. Definitely not 20 hours, that's crazy and not sustainable.

 

For the program to work best I wouldn't want player moderators to commit any more time than they feel they should.

Edited November 1, 2016 by EnzoForMe

[SirTwist]

I have played other games that SWTOR. In most games, there are no gold spammers, at all. (Well up until the last time I played the games.) Star Trek Online did have gold spammers at one point, but they were dealt with by a few things. I know one was you had to register your account through their website first, then there were other things. The big thing they did, was to make it uber easy to get dilithium crystals by doing maybe an hour's worth of work.

 

The other game I played, Ark: Survival Evolved, they did have in game moderators, that when you submitted a ticket, the developer would send to a moderator in the game, and they would do their best to fix the problem right then and there, if you were in game. If not in game, they could do it when you next logged in. And there were no gold spammers, at all. I guess Steam kept them out somehow. I also played Payday 2, and no gold spammers there.

 

I will say this, that SWTOR does need in game moderators. They have needed them from the start. I have seen, and heard about, other games, and SWTOR has lacked in this department since the start. They could easily stop the gold spammers by doing a few things. One of the fastest is an in game moderator that would stand by where you phase in to fleet, and take a screen shot for what's going on, and mute that person that has a name that's game generated, and that would be the end of that. Now, they would screen cap what was said, and submit that as a ticket for the actual game moderators to find and ban the IP address of the people responsible for the spam. This is, of course, using player moderators, and actual employees of EA/Bioware to moderate the game. And they in game (player) moderators can also help with some of the minor issues of the game. Such as player stuck, things like that. The minor, niggling, little things.

[kissingaiur]

I think what players need to understand if you were picked as an ingame mod that role isn't something to take lightly. I have spoken to players who were ingame mods and they describe it as a second job. In the games I have seen which IG mods were successful, players volunteered to monitor the game and chat at least for 4-5 hours a day. They had to commit to it and if they didn't meet that IG quota they would be "fired". It's not like a mod role would be slapped on some newbie running around, the player would have to take it seriously because what they are doing is a community service.

 

I just can imagine how clean and inviting the game would be if you get in and don't have to listen to people yelling "F*g" or the N word just to be edgy in chat and gold spammers would never be an issue. Where you could easily shut down trolls, hackers and exploiters in ranked. Instead of letting it happen for a month before some action is taken. I think it is a wonderful idea and it would let the players in the community make a positive impact within a game that they pay to play. It would be nice for the community to have some control in a game we are invested in.

 

 

PS - Thank you Caprica for your kind words.

Edited November 1, 2016 by kissingaiur

[SerraShar]

It's a Good idea .

 

But...I have reserve about it . And I speak from experience seeing corruption giving said Moderator a giant head and where the 'Moderator' become a joke .

 

I speak of another MMO where they had this kind of system . For peoples to become this kind of moderator , they had to put an online application on the MMO forum . Then peoples had to vouche for them why they should be chosen .

 

Right there , I saw a problem . Since it became a matter of popularity instead of Who can do the Job .

 

Then the second problem , was the language Barriére .

 

If you are english speaker , no problemo right ? But what if you don't speak any other language ? then someone is repeating the same sentance in a foreign language you don't understand ? What do YOU DO ?

 

That's where the main issue was . Instead of being..how to say , self reliant and reach out (cose there are hundred of translators that could've shed some light on what the person was spamming , yes they aren't the best..but as a Moderator it's your job to investigate !!!! Not just flag the person as a spammer and move on ) .

 

If a Moderator doesn't speak others foreign languages , then I personally believe it's his responsability to give the same courtersy to players from others country even if he doesn't understand squat of what they are saying . There are many way one can breach the barriere of said language . They can ask for help from someone who speak the same language . They can refer them to someone who can understand them..and so on .

 

But to flag them as spammer or to ignore them..is despicable . And anyone who does that , doesn't deserve to be a Moderator .

[Bdachel]

origin Sytems and it's parent company EA was sued by their player volunteers. The lead plaintiff was a supervisor watching over 90 volunteers and was paid 500 a month with a free account and some ingame items. They settled in 2004 without admitting any wrongdoing so I highly doubt EA would risk another lawsuit.

 

Even if they could run a volunteer mod program they would still have to pay people to watch the volunteers so innocent people are not harmed and that would take away from the development of new content.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Bdachel

[EnzoForMe]

origin Sytems and it's parent company EA was sued by their player volunteers. The lead plaintiff was a supervisor watching over 90 volunteers and was paid 500 a month with a free account and some ingame items. They settled in 2004 without admitting any wrongdoing so I highly doubt EA would risk another lawsuit.

 

Even if they could run a volunteer mod program they would still have to pay people to watch the volunteers so innocent people are not harmed and that would take away from the development of new content.

 

I would argue you wouldn't have to hire any new individuals. The current folks at Bioware responding to tickets would have their work load reduced/more efficiently streamlined and then could reallocate that time to oversight of player moderators.

 

But good to hear about the historical context of EA for sure.

[CrazyCT]

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[EnzoForMe]

It's a Good idea .

 

But...I have reserve about it . And I speak from experience seeing corruption giving said Moderator a giant head and where the 'Moderator' become a joke .

 

I speak of another MMO where they had this kind of system . For peoples to become this kind of moderator , they had to put an online application on the MMO forum . Then peoples had to vouche for them why they should be chosen .

 

Right there , I saw a problem . Since it became a matter of popularity instead of Who can do the Job .

 

Then the second problem , was the language Barriére .

 

If you are english speaker , no problemo right ? But what if you don't speak any other language ? then someone is repeating the same sentance in a foreign language you don't understand ? What do YOU DO ?

 

That's where the main issue was . Instead of being..how to say , self reliant and reach out (cose there are hundred of translators that could've shed some light on what the person was spamming , yes they aren't the best..but as a Moderator it's your job to investigate !!!! Not just flag the person as a spammer and move on ) .

 

If a Moderator doesn't speak others foreign languages , then I personally believe it's his responsability to give the same courtersy to players from others country even if he doesn't understand squat of what they are saying . There are many way one can breach the barriere of said language . They can ask for help from someone who speak the same language . They can refer them to someone who can understand them..and so on .

 

But to flag them as spammer or to ignore them..is despicable . And anyone who does that , doesn't deserve to be a Moderator .

 

Thanks for brining this up, it's a good point. I'd say the vast majority of players on the NA servers from my own observations use English, just as the vast majority use German on the German EU server. However, it's definitely something to keep in mind, though I don't think it's a huge issue in this game with servers aligned to countries that each have a majority-spoken language.