Warzone Commendation Grants in 4.7.3

[BenduKundalini]

They wanted us NOT to stockpile on WZ comms/ gear for 5.0, but calling this b_tch move a "heads up" sugarcoats it so they can have the cake and eat it too...

[ekwalizer]

I don't think there's a good answer to the problem that will make everyone happy.

 

How about don't create the problem in the first place?

[ekwalizer]

This entire post is your opinion and has nothing to do with anything I've said. It's just your own personal rant about the direction of the game. If anyone is acting brainwashed, it has to be you. You've been so conditioned to get X content each expansion that you don't even consider new content to be an expansion because it isn't what WoW did?

 

Personally, I'd like to see more group content released, but to even include new WZs in what you associate to expansions in this game is ignorant. How many new warzones have we gotten and how many of those came out with an expansion? We've had, I think, 4 new warzones plus arena maps if you'd like to count them and 0 of them have been released alongside a major expansion. So were RotHC and SoR not real expansions because there were no new warzones? We also have Uprisings coming with 5.0, we just don't have much information about them other than they are 4-man content.

 

So it is brainwashed now to expect to receive that which has already been paid for? The money I provide them comes with the expectation that the game goes in the direction of conventional MMOs. What they are doing efies logic and frankly subscription metrics. Many of us are on long-term subscriptions. When I renewed my 6-monther I wasn't overly happy with the state of the game but I certainly didn't expect them to squander that "investment" by doubling down on stupid.

 

I'm certainly not brainwashed and I don't think TX is either. My eyes are wide open and actively seeking a new MMO.

[ekwalizer]

I've never associated a level cap increase to new content. I've always associated it to class changes, especially with the addition of new abilities. While possible, it would be odd to just add another ability to all classes without increasing the level cap.

 

They have moved abilities around added abilities and removed abilities altogether in between expansions on many occasions.

[ekwalizer]

iHowever, if they are going to go through with the change in the gear system then this is the best route by making it so nobody has wz comms or crystals to give them an unfair advantage.

 

This system looks like it wants us to actually spend some time to get our gear, not walk in day 1 and have a full set.

 

Would you like to apply that logic to players' credits as well? I mean the playing field just isn't level for brand new players stacked against early access players such as you and me. If that is really the motivation behind this then why allow us to keep our billions?

 

You are right on the 2nd point. This system is designed to do nothing but make everyone go through the same inane gearing process.

[ekwalizer]

PS: I've also noted that even tho the PvE community is losing all of their crystals, they aren't complaining about it either. hmm. just an observation on that one. does seem to confirm my want to stomp noobies on day 1 of expansion in full min/maxed gear theory to me.

 

I'm complaining on both sides of that argument, thank you very much. But this thread is a product of less than 24 hour notice on a MAJOR change, which was not necessary yesterday. They could have easily said: "This will happen with 5.0, plan accordingly" and left legacy WZ comms alone.

 

As it stands right now, there is no reason whatsoever to PvP or even Raid (not that any real support has been put into those two areas in the last 23 months). Our current Raid gear, hell even our current 208 PvP gear will be plenty good enough to get from 65-70 and will likely be just fine to begin CXP stuff.

 

This has nothing to do with rolfstomping noobs. We can do that with identical gear as them. As far as progression raiding goes, I'd rather have a great player in marginal gear than a marginal player in great gear.

 

Your "theory" has no merit for anyone that actually enjoys competitive gaming.

[TX_Angel]

You have us 24 hours notice? I was having a medical procedure done and did not see it until today. 1 day late. And I'm screwed if I don't like where my comms are. Good grief.

 

1 day's notice. Some of us have lives. And you've promised you won't make this right after. You do realize we don't live in this game, right? That we have other things happen? It isn't like it was 2 weeks. I missed the announcement by a day... because of my health. Like I could change that. Thanks guys.. Figures.

 

Bioware clearly does not care, not one bit...

 

Only sales on the CM and sub counts dropping will make a difference now, and I fully expect at least one of those to happen...

 

The whole thing is sad, SWTOR had such promise, but the people running the place are either incompetent or fools... I of course have no idea which...

[JainiaDral]

PS: I've also noted that even tho the PvE community is losing all of their crystals, they aren't complaining about it either. hmm. just an observation on that one. does seem to confirm my want to stomp noobies on day 1 of expansion in full min/maxed gear theory to me.

 

There's a very simple reason for that: the crystal exchange was mentioned in a PVP-specific announcement in a set of parenthesis. How many PVE players even know this is coming? How many even read the post at all? I'm guessing very few at this point. Fewer still might have noticed the two-word slip-in about crystals.

 

I'm starting to think my cynical policy of reading everything Bioware posts is a good idea.

 

Bottom line: the change that is going to affect the entire player base was communicated to only a small sector. Hence, the lack of outrage. I'm sure Bioware's decision-makers engineered it that way, as well.

[Transcendent]

PS: I've also noted that even tho the PvE community is losing all of their crystals, they aren't complaining about it either. hmm. just an observation on that one.

 

Probably because the smart ones have used most of them for Companion Gifts / Crafting materials and have been selling them on the GTN.... for credits....

 

Seriously, try not being so biased against a gamestyle you clearly don't like or participate in. As an FYI, PvE players have easily been able to get a set bonus by running the content that hands it out like candy, especially through the duration of 4.0 with priority HM operations. Also, point for you here, some of the enhancements were actually better from the crystal vendors than token gear drops. Guess you missed that part?

[robertthebard]

So it is brainwashed now to expect to receive that which has already been paid for? The money I provide them comes with the expectation that the game goes in the direction of conventional MMOs. What they are doing efies logic and frankly subscription metrics. Many of us are on long-term subscriptions. When I renewed my 6-monther I wasn't overly happy with the state of the game but I certainly didn't expect them to squander that "investment" by doubling down on stupid.

 

...and which "conventional" MMO are you using as an example? Because some "conventional" MMOs focus more on PvP, where faction vs faction is the expected result, such as Aion, or where sieges are important for the winners, such as Rappelz. Although Rappelz has more than a few PvE dungeons, they are all open, so you can have 10 groups farming them at the same time, or PvPing over spots.

 

So I suppose that games like GW2 or RoM don't make the cut either, since GW2 didn't have raid type content until just recently, if I remember correctly.

 

I'm certainly not brainwashed and I don't think TX is either. My eyes are wide open and actively seeking a new MMO.

 

I don't know if you're brainwashed, but you're certainly not thinking straight, and haven't been for quite some time. If the only thing you're interested in is new Ops, and we haven't had them for closing in on 3 years now, and you're still here, there's a problem, but I'm not sure it's a problem where we can point at one party or the other and say "It's all your fault".

 

If you're only here for PvP, well, you get what you pay for: PvP that equates to CoD in so much as what it really means to the game in general, absolutely nothing. "It's fun" or "...but leaderboards" are all well and good if you're in to that kind of thing, but really, PvP has been toothless since I joined. None of the people that came with me lasted the first 30 days, because they are hardcore PvPers, and PvP here was a joke. Their words, on Vent, as they logged out of the game for the last time, never to return. It's been "Participation Trophy" PvP since I've been here: Win, lose or draw, everyone gets a prize. This is what the uproar is really about now, isn't it? "But I won't have Expertise to level the playing field, so I'm going to get rolled all the time, and that's no fun!" pretty much sums up the reaction, wouldn't you say?

[BCMitch]

Not sure if it's been asked, but will missions have their credit reward increased to compensate for the lack of comms awarded?

[ekwalizer]

...and which "conventional" MMO are you using as an example? Because some "conventional" MMOs focus more on PvP, where faction vs faction is the expected result, such as Aion, or where sieges are important for the winners, such as Rappelz. Although Rappelz has more than a few PvE dungeons, they are all open, so you can have 10 groups farming them at the same time, or PvPing over spots.

 

So I suppose that games like GW2 or RoM don't make the cut either, since GW2 didn't have raid type content until just recently, if I remember correctly.

 

I don't know if you're brainwashed, but you're certainly not thinking straight, and haven't been for quite some time. If the only thing you're interested in is new Ops, and we haven't had them for closing in on 3 years now, and you're still here, there's a problem, but I'm not sure it's a problem where we can point at one party or the other and say "It's all your fault".

 

If you're only here for PvP, well, you get what you pay for: PvP that equates to CoD in so much as what it really means to the game in general, absolutely nothing. "It's fun" or "...but leaderboards" are all well and good if you're in to that kind of thing, but really, PvP has been toothless since I joined. None of the people that came with me lasted the first 30 days, because they are hardcore PvPers, and PvP here was a joke. Their words, on Vent, as they logged out of the game for the last time, never to return. It's been "Participation Trophy" PvP since I've been here: Win, lose or draw, everyone gets a prize. This is what the uproar is really about now, isn't it? "But I won't have Expertise to level the playing field, so I'm going to get rolled all the time, and that's no fun!" pretty much sums up the reaction, wouldn't you say?

 

Let's not be coy. The focus of an established MMORPG should be on group content at end game. There was already plenty of story between L1-End. To say that they neglected group content to "focus on story" for KotFE is simply disingenuous. That story was mediocre at best and entirely predictable at worst.

 

As it stands right now, we have 13 empty servers out of 17. I have posted repeatedly an analysis of population that I conducted from Jan2015-Jan2016 and at that point the population was 20% less in Jan2016 than at the start of the 12XP story event.

 

Bioware can "say" whatever they want in the last Q3 about subscriber levels being as high as 2.0 .... while not pointing out that the population at 2.0 was nothing compared to 1.0. They can say sub levels are increasing but what they don't point out is that these are "one and done" subscribers.

 

The tale of the tape is on the servers themselves. Harbinger, the heavy weight champion thanks to 90CC CTS is even now not where most servers were at 1.0.

 

Bioware is not now, nor have they ever made an attempt to attract new players. There will be a small blip for the new expac and a small blip for the movie, but just as last year that will be gone again by the end of January 2017.

 

Not only are they not attracting new players, they have alienated 20% of the population they had during SOR.

 

The number of subscribers is not nearly as important as the number of people actually logging in. It doesn't matter how many subs there actually are, when servers feel dead, people leave.

Edited October 27, 2016 by ekwalizer

[robertthebard]

Let's not be coy. The focus of an established MMORPG should be on group content at end game. There was already plenty of story between L1-End. To say that they neglected group content to "focus on story" for KotFE is simply disingenuous. That story was mediocre at best and entirely predictable at worst.

 

As it stands right now, we have 13 empty servers out of 17. I have posted repeatedly an analysis of population that I conducted from Jan2015-Jan2016 and at that point the population was 20% less in Jan2016 than at the start of the 12XP story event.

 

Bioware can "say" whatever they want in the last Q3 about subscriber levels being as high as 2.0 .... while not pointing out that the population at 2.0 was nothing compared to 1.0. They can say sub levels are increasing but what they don't point out is that these are "one and done" subscribers.

 

The tale of the tape is on the servers themselves. Harbinger, the heavy weight champion thanks to 90CC CTS is even now not where most servers were at 1.0.

 

Bioware is not now, nor have they ever made an attempt to attract new players. There will be a small blip for the new expac and a small blip for the movie, but just as last year that will be gone again by the end of January 2017.

 

Not only are they not attracting new players, they have alienated 20% of the population they had during SOR.

 

The number of subscribers is not nearly as important as the number of people actually logging in. It doesn't matter how many subs there actually are, when servers feel dead, people leave.

 

There was nothing coy about my questions or comments. They are pretty straightforward. You have a "preferred" definition for MMO. It doesn't conflict with the industry standard, but, it doesn't exactly mesh with it either. Developers have to try to accommodate all the playstyles represented in the MMO community, and here's a shocker for you: They're not all end game raiders, PvPers, or story focused. They are mix of those, with probably hundreds of sub categories in those, including RPers that can fit into any of those.

 

The lack of Ops is certainly a bad thing, but if I were playing solely for Ops, I'd have been gone a long time ago. There wouldn't have been any of this attention grabbing on the way out either, I'd have done exactly what I've done in every other MMO I've played: When it's not meeting my needs, or I'm burnt out on it, I move on to something else. It happens to me a lot, but feel free to search my post history to see how many "I'm taking my ball and going home" threads I've started. Let me save you the time, there are none. I just go.

[ekwalizer]

There was nothing coy about my questions or comments. They are pretty straightforward. You have a "preferred" definition for MMO. It doesn't conflict with the industry standard, but, it doesn't exactly mesh with it either. Developers have to try to accommodate all the playstyles represented in the MMO community, and here's a shocker for you: They're not all end game raiders, PvPers, or story focused. They are mix of those, with probably hundreds of sub categories in those, including RPers that can fit into any of those.

 

The lack of Ops is certainly a bad thing, but if I were playing solely for Ops, I'd have been gone a long time ago. There wouldn't have been any of this attention grabbing on the way out either, I'd have done exactly what I've done in every other MMO I've played: When it's not meeting my needs, or I'm burnt out on it, I move on to something else. It happens to me a lot, but feel free to search my post history to see how many "I'm taking my ball and going home" threads I've started. Let me save you the time, there are none. I just go.

 

Right, and they struck that balance quite well with RotHC and SOR. Where they diverted from balancing styles of gameplay was with KotFE.

 

I haven't started any of those threads either. I am simply putting the fact out there ... not for you, for Eric, Tait, etc .... so they can see that at least some portion of their loyal customers can no longer support the direction of this game. If people just leave and don't say why .... then they can think whatever they want. I posted an exhaustive "goodbye letter" when I cancelled my subscription. But you know as well as I do that no one in any position to do anything about it is ever going to read that.

Edited October 27, 2016 by ekwalizer

[robertthebard]

Right, and they struck that balance quite well with RotHC and SOR. Where they diverted from balancing styles of gameplay was with KotFE.

 

I haven't started any of those threads either. I am simply putting the fact out there ... not for you, for Eric, Tait, etc .... so they can see that at least some portion of their loyal customers can no longer support the direction of this game. If people just leave and don't say why .... then they can think whatever they want. I posted an exhaustive "goodbye letter" when I cancelled my subscription. But you know as well as I do that no one in any position to do anything about it is ever going to read that.

 

There's an exit survey for why. I'll throw some comments in there, but I'm not coming here with a "Look at me" thread. I'm not going to rage that I won't be able to complete the DvL event, for example, because I'm not even willing to PvP here for free boxes. It's meaningless, and I have other venues for PvP, where it's not, when I feel the need. I just won't be playing CoD against my cousin's boys any more... damn whippersnappers are too good at it for me...

[TX_Angel]

Hey folks!

 

Alright, so after talking with the team about the feedback in this thread, we are going to make a change. Instead of requiring prior Season Ranked Tokens in 5.0, each of the cosmetic items will now cost credits and have a minimum Valor requirement.

 

Now, I know the next question will be, what is the minimum requirement? We would actually like to hear from all of you on that front. What do you see as the minimum requirement to have access to the the various PvP cosmetic items? Which should have higher or lower Valor requirements, etc?

 

Thanks you again for your feedback, as always, keep it coming!

 

-eric

 

22 pages of posts after this and you haven't really addressed the real problem, comms and crystals should not convert to credits, they should convert to CXP.

 

Further, CXP needs to be legacy based, you're just crushing alts otherwise.

[WrenchingStar]

My question is...

What will happen to the five crystals we get in that one Rise of the Hutt Cartel mail that we get on every character after subscribing come 5.0?

[ekwalizer]

Further, CXP needs to be legacy based, you're just crushing alts otherwise.

 

I can't speak for anyone but me, but this will be my case; and certainly was the case for my 37 level 60-65s with KotFE.

 

I have ran KotFE exactly twice. Once for ch1-9 and then the day of release for each chapter. Then a speed run because of DvL .... which I will not do again. KotFE has exactly zero replay value for me. I found the story lacking to say the least. I found the encounters to be more of a chore than fun. I found most chapters to be meaningless overall. Long story longer, I found the entire expansion to be woefully unworthy of the money I committed to it.

 

If end game currency becomes credits ... I will sadly close this chapter of my life. And that is saying a lot. I endured all 8.5 years of SWG because like this it was Star Wars.

[TX_Angel]

i'm not new, I've been playing since day 1 of early access at launch. I want to see BW get back to making Content for every type of gameplay PvP, GSF, end game Operations, and flashpoints etc. Not just Story.

 

Want in one hand and do your business in the other and see which one fills up first.

 

You aren't going to get any of that content, that ship has sailed... Now you get to regrind again, doing the same content again, for nothing more than numbers being changed...

 

And somehow you're ok with it... I guess my final comment was the accurate one

[TX_Angel]

If I have to fight another group of three "Skytroopers", I'm going to punch something cuddly. While I do appreciate Bioware's efforts in storytelling, and believe that this is one of the elements that sets this game apart for me, the Multiplayer and the Massive do seem to be lacking from these Online experiences. I understand that creating content is a huge enterprise. I am comfortable with mechanics changing during a games lifetime.

 

What I have a problem with is sudden changes like this occurring when nothing else in the game is going on. Now maybe I was distracted by the release of Battlefield 1 but this feels totally out of the blue.

 

Part of what is wrong with KotFE is that it is all "one off instanced" settings that you can't actually travel to, with very limited exceptions...

 

Hoth was an interesting planet, big open world, lots of things to do and places to explore, many side missions. Coming to the planet on various classes and the two factions gave you a different view of it...

 

Zakkul is just a pointless swamp and a bunch of one-time use areas that mean nothing. Plus the story goes out into left field and frankly I never cared about anyone in it, it was just bad writing...

 

Compare 2.0 with Makeb to 4.0 with Zakkul, then compare the dailies and other missions to do on Makeb... ok, it wasn't everyone's favorite, but it was interesting and I ended up doing all the achievements on Makeb over time.

 

Likewise 3.0 and Yavin, that was a fun daily area for awhile... Rishi was poorly used however, it could have been an awesome daily area... (yea, yea, there are a handful of daily missions there, that no one does)

[TX_Angel]

Then play ranked. The PvE crowd won't be able to get in, since it's going to have a Valor requirement to enter.

 

Ranked? You must be joking, that stupid 4 vs 4 arena crap that is not remotely fun?

 

If that is your idea of fun, you're playing the wrong game...

[TX_Angel]

I can't speak for anyone but me, but this will be my case; and certainly was the case for my 37 level 60-65s with KotFE.

 

I have ran KotFE exactly twice. Once for ch1-9 and then the day of release for each chapter. Then a speed run because of DvL .... which I will not do again. KotFE has exactly zero replay value for me. I found the story lacking to say the least. I found the encounters to be more of a chore than fun. I found most chapters to be meaningless overall. Long story longer, I found the entire expansion to be woefully unworthy of the money I committed to it.

 

If end game currency becomes credits ... I will sadly close this chapter of my life. And that is saying a lot. I endured all 8.5 years of SWG because like this it was Star Wars.

 

I know how you feel... I was a loyal SWG player myself, but left after NGE, couldn't take it... ruined the game...

 

I've been subbed without a break to SWTOR since the start, for awhile I had 3 subs running for my family and spent a lot on CC. KotFE was a pretty crappy experience... fine once I suppose, I did it again on the other faction to see the difference for the Empire vs Republic, and the differences are almost none.

 

I still haven't done it for DvL, and I'm an achievement hunter (about 43k points). I just can't stand to do it again, it is so dull...

 

I'll play 5.0 when it comes out, because... but I doubt I'll stay past that, the ship is sailing...

[robertthebard]

Ranked? You must be joking, that stupid 4 vs 4 arena crap that is not remotely fun?

 

If that is your idea of fun, you're playing the wrong game...

 

PvP in this entire game is crap. However, if you're concerned about Dick Raider ruining your PvP, there's your option, since they, likely, won't have the Valor to enter. Oh, wait, I understand: But there's no PvE objectives to do, so it sucks. Ah, the toils of having to actually PvP for PvP rewards, it must be hard on the "PvP" community when PvP is actually PvP, instead of PvE with the other faction in a FP.

[Transcendent]

Developers have to try to accommodate all the playstyles represented in the MMO community, and here's a shocker for you: They're not all end game raiders, PvPers, or story focused. They are mix of those, with probably hundreds of sub categories in those, including RPers that can fit into any of those.

 

Well that's fine if the developers are actually trying to cater to any of those subsets. Are they though? Perhaps I'm missing something, it seems more like BioWare are not even aiming at any of these subsets of players, and are simply going after the extremely transient "pick it up, play it, drop it" players. The ones that come in, spend a bit of money, and then leave.

 

While that may work well for one-off titles or sequels, how is that working well for an MMO? As mentioned, the server populations don't really show it as working well, not even remotely. The problem seems to be BioWare having no clear direction for the game, and not being able to even deliver content they'll say they will deliver (such as Operations or continuous story).

 

I'm not even sure at this stage BioWare even know what type of game they are developing.

[Gwena]

Hey folks!

 

Alright, so after talking with the team about the feedback in this thread, we are going to make a change. Instead of requiring prior Season Ranked Tokens in 5.0, each of the cosmetic items will now cost credits and have a minimum Valor requirement.

 

Now, I know the next question will be, what is the minimum requirement? We would actually like to hear from all of you on that front. What do you see as the minimum requirement to have access to the the various PvP cosmetic items? Which should have higher or lower Valor requirements, etc?

 

Thanks you again for your feedback, as always, keep it coming!

 

-eric

 

Re-visiting this thread now that I logged into my Sage to discover that her lightsaber, purchased for 900 WZ coms, now has a valor requirement of 42. She is nowhere near that as I don't PvP much, but I never needed to PvP much to get and use that saber before now, did I?

 

I sincerely hope that you will reconsider this change. These weapons were intended to be "entry level" PvP rewards that even mid-level characters could use, but now you've made them into rewards only for the more dedicated PvP'ers. This is especially maddening since many of those weapon models are no longer available through PvE (for example, planetary bonus series class specific rewards that were removed in 4.0). Not a happy camper here.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Gwena