Grand Master Satele Shan On Strike?

[DarthDymond]

So it didn't happen this time, so it never happened? I'm curious, how many people tried to cross that picket line?

You're the one who said strikes only work "because of" broken legs. I'm pointing out a counter-example from this same year.

 

I'm no expert, but I do know that over the past 20 years there have been around 400 large strikes (1000 or more workers) in the US, but In that same time period I don't think more than 10 of those 400 had reports of any sort of violence against workers who crossed the line. So I find it hard to believe union violence is a major factor in strike efficacy.

 

What about all the people that have to go on Welfare because their union decides that an x percentage pay increase isn't enough, even if they thought they were already doing ok?

Sorry, I'm not going to get into a back-and-forth on a Star Wars video game forum over whether, on balance, unions do more harm than good overall. That's just a way too in depth, and often meandering discussion.

 

Let's look at this another way:

 

How much does a plumber make when you flush the toilet? How much does a carpenter make when you enter your home? How much does that guy that installed the bearings in a jet's engine get paid every time that bearing turns? Each and every one of these examples has a Union. How long until they start thinking they're entitled to residuals from their work? Are you going to have to install a coin slot on your toilet in order to use it?

Different businesses / industries have different payment models - it's not a one-size-fits-all economy. Plumbers don't get residuals for every flush, and voice actors don't get to charge a call-out fee for going to an audition or charge an assessment fee just to look at a script.

 

Residuals aren't some crazy new money grab, they've been a part of acting work for decades - in part because actors don't get paid for all the time they put into auditioning, training and practicing.

 

Yep, those are absolutely the most ridiculous examples I could think of. However, since none of these guys/gals are making upwards of 800 dollars for 4 hours work, I'd guess they'd feel like they were in a better position to demand those residuals than someone that is making upwards of 800 dollars for 4 hours. Like I said earlier, they make more in 4 hours than I make a month since I became disabled. Yet somehow, I manage to maintain three game subs, and keep all my bills paid.

 

If I got three of those gigs a month, not likely since I'm not good with voices, I could literally live 3 times better than I do now. Hey, steak is back on the menu, and so is getting a new (read different) car, since mine is currently held together with bailing wire and bubble gum. So yeah, excuse me if I'm finding it hard to dredge up some sympathy for people that are doing quite well for themselves, but it's not "enough". Especially after they rejected a 9% pay increase.

I'm sorry to hear you became disabled and that it's affected your income, that genuinely sucks for anyone to be stuck going through.

 

As for whether or not you sympathize with voice actors, that's completely up to you (although I'm not really sure what it is about EA or Activision that would strike anyone as making the game companies particularly sympathetic in this situation). But I just don't share any sort of "if someone makes more money than me, then they shouldn't be trying to argue for more money than they're already getting" attitude.

 

I'm certainly not of the mindset of "oh, those poor, disadvantaged actors, how sad to see" or anything, but if they think their work in games should be worth the same type of compensation as their work in cartoons, then I have zero problem with the idea of them trying to make that happen through collective bargaining.

Edited October 24, 2016 by DarthDymond

[LyraineAlei]

I feel like you missed the point they were making. Sure, someone else could of done the Job, if they had done it from the start. I believe they were talking about what would of happened if they switched Voice Actors between, say Mass Effect 2 and 3.

 

Brandon Keener will be and forever be to me and a lot of people, Garrus Vakarian. My favorite Character in the games and the first Love interest me and all my friends (yes not some, but literally all my friends who played Mass Effect) when we played Fem Shep. He Made the character. Even when I here him in other games or shows, I dont think "oh, that's Brandon Keener", Like I do with Johnny Yong Bosch, Crispin Feeman, or others. I think "Oh, that's Garrus" Had they gone and Changed his voice from the 3rd game, cause of a strike like this, you can bet your *** that More people would of been upset about that than the 3 color Endings we got.

 

Sidenote even though I don't disagree with you- Mordin was replaced between ME2 and ME3. Though he wasn't already around for two games before, but his replacement was a close enough match to the original it was acceptable. But if we went from Jennifer Hale as FemTrooper to Turanga Leela's Voice Actress for FemTrooper, we'd have a lot of annoyed people.

 

Then again, I do not play with mute. I play wearing sound-cancelling headphones so I hear my games better in noisy environments, so if Voice Acting is a major selling point of the story, it stays that way.

[Aowin]

This strike in no way impacts SWTOR, even if Jennifer Hale is on strike. Want to know why? All of the voice actors playing major roles in SWTOR signed long-term contracts where BioWare could bring them back for future content or expansions whenever necessary. I don't remember how many years the contract was for, but I'm fairly certain it was at least 10 years, as that's how long EA is willing to support SWTOR.

 

Jennifer Hale also has a long history and a great relationship with BioWare, going at least as far back as KotOR 1 in 2003 (before EA owned BioWare). She may be on strike against EA and other major publishers, but that doesn't mean she's necessarily on strike against BioWare. I doubt the strike will last that long anyways as these things tend to sort themselves out rather quickly.

[Viperswhip]

This strike in no way impacts SWTOR, even if Jennifer Hale is on strike. Want to know why? All of the voice actors playing major roles in SWTOR signed long-term contracts where BioWare could bring them back for future content or expansions whenever necessary. I don't remember how many years the contract was for, but I'm fairly certain it was at least 10 years, as that's how long EA is willing to support SWTOR.

 

Jennifer Hale also has a long history and a great relationship with BioWare, going at least as far back as KotOR 1 in 2003 (before EA owned BioWare). She may be on strike against EA and other major publishers, but that doesn't mean she's necessarily on strike against BioWare. I doubt the strike will last that long anyways as these things tend to sort themselves out rather quickly.

 

Well, that handles the female trooper heh

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Everyone is acting like al VA's are on strike lol. That union BARELY represents 25% of the VA talent. And I am sorry I dont think they should get residuals, and should be penalized if they are constantly late for sessions. They didnt even take the concessions to their union members for a vote.

 

so who are the greedy ones again?

[TX_Angel]

Have you listened to the thing where Steve Blum talks about people who have suffered permanent voice damage and/or needed surgery because of the working conditions?

 

Sure, but is that EA's problem?

 

Perhaps it is, perhaps it isn't. Perhaps VAs should object at the time when their voice needs a rest.

[TX_Angel]

Everyone is acting like al VA's are on strike lol. That union BARELY represents 25% of the VA talent. And I am sorry I dont think they should get residuals, and should be penalized if they are constantly late for sessions. They didnt even take the concessions to their union members for a vote.

 

so who are the greedy ones again?

 

Everyone is greedy... Greed, for a lack of a better word, is good.

 

It makes the world go around, without it you wouldn't have modern civilization, no matter what hippies would have you think.

 

The VAs are doing what they think they can, so are the game companies. Whoever wins is the one who had the power.

 

That is how the game is played.

[StupidWiz]

To be honest, one of the main reasons I choose to play SWTOR over other MMORPG is because of the voice actors. I enjoy listening to the conversations. If this game's going to be like FF XIV where our hero is going to be mute then I'm done with this game. Voice actors are what makes the Player Character alive, so to speak. That's why I always cringe whenever I watch The Division and The Secret World cutscenes where the NPCs just talk to themselves while my character just stand there staring at them and occasionally nods. Too painful to watch. The "nostalgic" conversation that came after ch 9 KOTFE while brought back memories from KOTOR series, I personally don't like it.

 

I hope my favorite voice actors do get what they deserve for their hard work.

[DarthEnrique]

Why is she on strike? Hasn't she done a lot of voice acting over the years? I know she was one of the Hex Girls in Scooby-Doo and has done that role several times since their introduction not to mention her long line of other movies and TV shows. I'm sorry but is she broke or something? Only reason I can think she'd be on strike.

 

Add-on: RIP Bastila Shan!

Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthEnrique

[SithKoriandr]

To be honest, one of the main reasons I choose to play SWTOR over other MMORPG is because of the voice actors. I enjoy listening to the conversations. If this game's going to be like FF XIV where our hero is going to be mute then I'm done with this game. Voice actors are what makes the Player Character alive, so to speak. That's why I always cringe whenever I watch The Division and The Secret World cutscenes where the NPCs just talk to themselves while my character just stand there staring at them and occasionally nods. Too painful to watch. The "nostalgic" conversation that came after ch 9 KOTFE while brought back memories from KOTOR series, I personally don't like it.

 

I hope my favorite voice actors do get what they deserve for their hard work.

 

As someone who didn't play KOTOR, I can say the "nostalgic" conversation did not have that effect for me and only had me going "*** is this?"

 

While I don't mind an MMO without VA, I believe the VA was part of what set TOR apart from the competition, not the storylines. They're nice for sure, but they're not better than other MMOs, just more of them that they decided to do away with.

[TX_Angel]

To be honest, one of the main reasons I choose to play SWTOR over other MMORPG is because of the voice actors. I enjoy listening to the conversations.

 

Does it have to be those SPECIFIC voice actors? What if it was different VAs? What if it had been different VAs from day one?

 

I hope my favorite voice actors do get what they deserve for their hard work.

 

What do they deserve? $10 million each? $1 each?

 

Serious point, it is easy to say "their fair share", but that is a cop-out, because you aren't actually saying what that is.

 

Perhaps they already get what they deserve?

[TX_Angel]

Why is she on strike? Hasn't she done a lot of voice acting over the years? I know she was one of the Hex Girls in Scooby-Doo and has done that role several times since their introduction not to mention her long line of other movies and TV shows. I'm sorry but is she broke or something? Only reason I can think she'd be on strike.

 

Add-on: RIP Bastila Shan!

 

I hope she is rather well off at this point, but you never know...

 

However she may well be attempting to make the whole business better for everyone. If so, good for her!

[DarthEnrique]

I hope she is rather well off at this point, but you never know...

 

However she may well be attempting to make the whole business better for everyone. If so, good for her!

 

That's true...

[curulz]

Why is she on strike? Hasn't she done a lot of voice acting over the years? I know she was one of the Hex Girls in Scooby-Doo and has done that role several times since their introduction not to mention her long line of other movies and TV shows. I'm sorry but is she broke or something? Only reason I can think she'd be on strike.

 

Add-on: RIP Bastila Shan!

 

the whole idea of a union is kind of a "one for all" approach. So its the union that decides to strike, not necessarily the members. But as a member, you're expected to back your brothers/sisters if there is a strike and not cross the line.

 

I haven't read the article, but I'm guessing there is a union or a SAG type group that these actors belong to

[DarthEnrique]

the whole idea of a union is kind of a "one for all" approach. So its the union that decides to strike, not necessarily the members. But as a member, you're expected to back your brothers/sisters if there is a strike and not cross the line.

 

I haven't read the article, but I'm guessing there is a union or a SAG type group that these actors belong to

 

I tried to but once I saw the name Jennifer Hall and ended up looking her up cause I knew her from some show (obviously since I mentioned Scooby-Doo) and just didn't finish the article. Lol!

[Gomla]

It's amusing in that they think they are irreplaceable.

 

Going by some of the sites i'm reading they earn $825 for 4 hours work.

 

I'm pretty sure they will find plenty of people to work for that money, it won't take long to find people just as good as those on strike they just won't have the name behind it.

[Bonzenaattori]

It's sad that they're striking for all the wrong reasons...

[SiegePro]

The biggest problem with this strike is that the dialogue chunks are generally short enough that someone who sounds close with a little voice modulation could probably replace them and no one would ever notice.

 

For example, if I hadn't read it elsewhere I never would have realized that they replaced Tanno Vic's voice due to the actor's death. It was close enough and it had been a while since I'd heard it much.

 

Heck, people's voices change over time. I remember reading that they had to re-record all of Anna's lines in Frozen because Kristen Bell had her baby part way through the production and her voice got deeper as a result.

 

We haven't seen our missing companions for five years. They could have suffered injuries (or just hard living) or been stuffed in carbonite themselves or had to spend years deep undercover where they had to speak differently to maintain cover. All of those things could have an impact on how they sound after five years.

 

The other issue is how exactly do you calculate residuals for an ongoing subscription based game?

 

- Is it once per month per subscription (meaning each additional piece of voice work has to increase the subscription cost because there's no account to how much a given piece of voice acting is even accessed)?

 

- Is it once per account (just like a person could watch the same DVD repeatedly without having to pay the residuals each time they do... but how do F2P accounts since by definition they're not making money off those accounts)?

 

- Is it once per character (because you can usually only play each story mission once... but what about people who re-roll a couple times before they leave the starter world... does each of those count the same as a full level 65 character)?

 

- Is it once per mission run (and how do you calculate missions that are abandoned or reset)?

 

That seems like a giant honking mess no matter which way you go and probably why no one's really tried doing residuals for such products before.

[CombatLord]

Strike against EA, Activision and Disney? Sounds amazing :):):)

I just hope this is not one of those idiotic strikes where everyone just looks after themselves. Finland had one of those happen, instead of raising taxes equally, some people went on strike and that meant taxes had to be raised for others while some got off the hook.

As far as i know, this looks like perfectly acceptable and good reason to be striking for. And if it is bad for EA, it must be amazing and awesome happy day for everyone

 

If you so hate EA and the other game company's, then why do you even play games at all?

[DarthDymond]

The other issue is how exactly do you calculate residuals for an ongoing subscription based game?

 

- Is it once per month per subscription (meaning each additional piece of voice work has to increase the subscription cost because there's no account to how much a given piece of voice acting is even accessed)?

 

- Is it once per account (just like a person could watch the same DVD repeatedly without having to pay the residuals each time they do... but how do F2P accounts since by definition they're not making money off those accounts)?

 

- Is it once per character (because you can usually only play each story mission once... but what about people who re-roll a couple times before they leave the starter world... does each of those count the same as a full level 65 character)?

 

- Is it once per mission run (and how do you calculate missions that are abandoned or reset)?

 

That seems like a giant honking mess no matter which way you go and probably why no one's really tried doing residuals for such products before.

The proposal that is actually on the table is fairly straightforward for an entertainment employment contact: every 2 million copies sold or 2 million unique subscribers, the actors get a fixed-amount residual payment (based on their initial compensation / hours worked), up to a maximum of four such residual payments (for games that hit 8 million copies sold / unique subscribers).

 

No need for any hypothetical "per missions run" breakdowns or anything crazy like that. The sides can certainly negotiate over what the payout milestones should be or the actual dollar amounts of the residuals, but there's no need for the underlying structure to be particularly involved (other than for the lawyers to get some more job security).

 

The reason residuals haven't been done before isn't because it's too complicated to work out, it's because the game companies save themselves money by not paying them out, and when the previous contact was negotiated in the '90s the union didn't force the issue - of course that contact was negotiated back when video game work was a small fraction of what it has grown to in the last 20 years.

Edited November 2, 2016 by DarthDymond

[TX_Angel]

The proposal that is actually on the table is fairly straightforward for an entertainment employment contact

 

And that's fine, but if EA/Disney/Activation/etc. don't want to pay that, then they can simply walk away from the table.

 

In my 20 years of employing people, I've had multiple occasions when someone wanted more money. Sometimes I'll say yes because they make a good point and are underpaid. Sometimes I'll say no because they are fairly paid and easy enough to replace.

 

If I were EA, the real problem here is the fact that it won't end here, next time they'll want more, then more the next time, and so on. If the current "ask" was it, all they'd ever want, EA might well give it to them, but it never ends there.

[chaharbagh]

The amount of venom in this thread is just horrifying.

[Rolodome]

The biggest problem with this strike is that the dialogue chunks are generally short enough that someone who sounds close with a little voice modulation could probably replace them and no one would ever notice.

As far as the "they are replaceable" argument goes, you have to understand that good voice actors aren't just born and waltz into studios. If your philosophy becomes "we can just replace where needed," sooner or later, you reach a point where you've ignored most of the good workers you had and now you're struggling to fill roles because the talent you want is not available.

 

So it's not just about the unique nature of voices. It's about the overall skillset. Learning to be good at voice acting is not an overnight process. It takes years to master like any other craft. So sure, a studio could try to get a discount Jennifer Hale or Steve Blum, but a good replacement isn't going to magically appear. Skill on that level takes time to build. Plus you have to take things like trust and work ethic into account. The Jennifer Hales and Steve Blums of the VA world have gotten as far as they have, in part because of the relationships they've built and the portfolios. A studio knows they can put big money on those people and get their money's worth. When you have to go for some no-name VA, it's like starting over... you don't know if you can trust them with it, you don't know if it's worth paying them a dime, if they're a nightmare to work with, etc.

[SithKoriandr]

The amount of venom in this thread is just horrifying.

 

The amount of union sympathy is just as bad. I've worked outside a union. I've worked (and currently do) in a union, and to think that unions actually look out for the employee is a joke.

 

My own union just had people retire because they were found to be as bad as the employees were saying, but the head office of the union didn't even care until they found out they were also screwing over those in charge of the union

 

Also, think it's just the union bosses? Shop steward blocked a contract that was great for employees, until it wasn't great for the employees, but awesome for her.

 

Truth is though, non unions are just as bad. Nothing like being let go, because you weren't part of the boys club.

[Darth_Advent]

I'll fret over a lack of residuals for voice actors after the programmers who are responsible for most of the actual game start benefiting from better conditions and benefits.