Anyone else think....

[cloneofdax]

Certainly in some players cases, but unlikely to be all those complaining. As a player who has both sub and preferred I too am a little disappointed by this. I guess there's a difference to expressing disappointment and what's been happing on these forums. However CT let's face it this is nothing new as far as these forums go. Some here would complain if they were give a free car because it's not a starship.

[cloneofdax]

Or you can look at it as people looking at the new xpac and saying thanks but no thanks I rather stay preferred.

 

Missed the point. It's not about players saying they would rather stay preferred, it's about players saying they want to stay preferred but don't want to lose any benefit of being a sub.

[Damask_Rose]

I don't know why they don't just roll the ops/pvp passes into one, call it Galactic Command Pass or something.

 

It'll do exactly what it sounds like, allow you to get command points (and thus crates) while it is active.

 

I hope this is what they have planned and why they took the passes off of the market. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[CorellianWannabe]

Missed the point. It's not about players saying they would rather stay preferred, it's about players saying they want to stay preferred but don't want to lose any benefit of being a sub.

 

You mean like they have had for the last five years? How entitled of them!

 

Funny how the 'benefits' until now were actually 'pay to make this annoyance go away' or 'get another shiny new set of pixels that you can grind influence for'. Now the 'benefits' will be 'pay your money or you might as well quit and watch the story on youtube, since decisions don't matter anyway',

[AllisonLightning]

Missed the point. It's not about players saying they would rather stay preferred, it's about players saying they want to stay preferred but don't want to lose any benefit of being a sub.

 

Ever not gotten a container as Preferred? Losing the 99 crystal containers doing the Revan prelude quest hurts really, really hard. There are already more than enough restrictions in place without adding one that affects the Preferred who splashed out on an incredibly expensive unlock and passes. I don't buy the passes for reference's sake, all I've bought is the Artifact (account wide) unlock.

 

There are so many restrictions you just don't see unless you've been Preferred and then you'd understand that keeping the existing status quo where those who are still contributing to the game via passes and having paid the unlocks is about keeping those who are hanging in there.

 

Although this has become a moot point with the pass removal for whatever reason, I'm hanging out to see what Eric says because this ought to be good.

 

You lose so many advantages and basic functions that no amount of unlocks, at the game's current state, can ever remedy.

[ekwalizer]

.....that the people doing so much complaining "on behalf of" preferred players being excluded, are actually wanting it put in so they can drop their subs and still get full access to the game? Or should I get my tinfoil hat re-tuned?

 

I don't agree with you very often, but I suspect you are correct.

 

Personally I have been a vocal critic of the game since 4.0 was announced. I even tried to stop financially supporting it ... but people kept buying me 60 day cards until I finally resubbed back in July.

[Jeweledleah]

Not everyone. But some do love to complain, without the ability to complain, they'd stop breathing. However, this has been true of everything 2016. People get offended, more offended actually, on behalf of others. Take the Disney movie Moana, made by the Polynesians about Polynesia. The halloween costume was taken off the shelves because white people and minorities were up in arms saying it was racist to the Polynesian people. Hawaiians posted saying they made it, so they were cool with it. It was still removed for racism reasons. It's vigilante attitude. If someone perceives an injustice, even if they have zero knowledge, they go on a crusade. This time, it's unfair that people getting the game for free do not have the same access as people paying $15 a month.

 

I made a comment in another post and someone told me off saying how they as a preferred probably put more money into the game than me so they deserve to be treated better. I was a founder. I suppose it's possible they have as I do take breaks when I financially cannot afford it, but I've not always been active on the forums when playing either so who knows.

 

oh hey, its me you are talking about and I wasn't putting money in as a preferred, I was putting money in as a founder, beta participant, early acess adopter, continuous subscriber with 100% of the subscription rewards on my account plus at least 50% of the cartel coin pets and the only thing I don't have is collector's edition. I have let my subscription lapse exactly twice. once for about a week prior to release of Ziost. and about a month ago, because there is NOTHING new to do.

 

however - I'm not asking to be treated BETTER then anyone else, do please cease putting words into my mouth that I've never said. the fact that it seems like I've been subscribing longer than you have, that I have certainly gave this company more money than you did? doesn't make me better then you. doesn't make me better than someone who started playing just last month either. but its ironic to be called a freeloader by someone who didn't spend as much on this game as I have, just becasue I think preferred players deserve to have acess to end game content, end game content that they have PAID to unlock.

 

I'm pointing out a hypocrisy of some of the people here who haven't been here nearly as long and yet think THOSE who are not continuous subscribers at any time - should be treated as second class citizens, calling them freeloaders and such, calling people who dare to defend them - freeloaders, or wanna be freeloaders like CT did here in the OP. people who have no idea what playing as preferred actualy is like, keep creating straw-men arguments. people who are too short sighted to realize that this game cannot afford to lose even more players and the stick approach to subscription is NOT going to work. people who apparently do not play with preferred players, or don't realize that they are playing with preferred players on a daily basis. but that's ok. bioware listened to all of you claiming that "preferred are getting too much stuff" enjoy your empty servers.

 

It's more a I did play as a Preferred and know exactly what it is- compared to some rather interesting assumptions that are making the rounds. I was also more active in my guild a month ago before I had the end of a book to write and the LS vs DS stuff I need to finish and know we are hemorrhaging Preferred players. That the non-subs who hit Preferred status as new players are not $5 unicorns, but those who bought the Shadow of Revan expansion accidentally back when it was up for sale.

 

I get to play more in December for me and I want pops, also I know subs who have been playing forever who have left and most just don't want to hang around. The few that do... there might be some who are arguing for that point, but we don't normally have so many and I don't usually care to argue the point for long. I'd say there are just as many subs going attack dog on Preferred or F2P existing because they need the stick to stay subbed, and have no self-control on my own tinfoil hat.

 

^^^^

[Transcendent]

I get that a few people don't want to pay the $15. But, if you're actually playing on a regular basis, this $15 is still one of the best returns for your entertainment $, IMO.

 

That is debatable. Take for example Origin Access which is much much cheaper than the monthly subscription cost to this game. There is probably more content for your money for that, compared to this. Add in other MMO titles that produce more content than this title, with comparable subsciption costs, and that roi for purely entertainment becomes dubious at best.

[SithKoriandr]

That is debatable. Take for example Origin Access which is much much cheaper than the monthly subscription cost to this game. There is probably more content for your money for that, compared to this. Add in other MMO titles that produce more content than this title, with comparable subsciption costs, and that roi for purely entertainment becomes dubious at best.

 

The poster said one of the best, not the best

 

15 dollars a month. 25 cents a day. That's cheap if you're on every day. People used to pay that for 30 seconds - 5 minutes of game time Here you can put in 1 hour a day or more or what have you. 15 hours a month? That's already better than back in the day and with inflation, that quarter was worth more back then

[SoraStrife]

The poster said one of the best, not the best

 

15 dollars a month. 25 cents a day. That's cheap if you're on every day. People used to pay that for 30 seconds - 5 minutes of game time Here you can put in 1 hour a day or more or what have you. 15 hours a month? That's already better than back in the day and with inflation, that quarter was worth more back then

 

Actually, inflation works the opposite. $0.25 in 1985 is worth $0.56 in 2016, or, a quarter had nearly double the worth 20 years ago as it did today.

 

Your point also doesn't address that competitor MMO's provide better entertainment value for the same (or in FF14's case lesser) dollar value.

[Costello]

Ultimately at the moment the benefits for being a subscriber over preferred can be very very few.

 

If you have played out the warzones (or they just aren't your thing), done the ops and end game content to completion as a preferred you can log in, run the heroics do some crafting (though slower I'm not sure there is much of a rush) and play any class story through to 50 and possibly 65. You can sell on the GTN and play as much GSF as you like.

 

Other than buying expensive things and getting to experience lock out times on ops are there that many subscriber benefits. Hell is GC was available to preferred, you might have to be insane to be a subscriber cause you get so very very little from it.

[AllisonLightning]

Ultimately at the moment the benefits for being a subscriber over preferred can be very very few.

 

If you have played out the warzones (or they just aren't your thing), done the ops and end game content to completion as a preferred you can log in, run the heroics do some crafting (though slower I'm not sure there is much of a rush) and play any class story through to 50 and possibly 65. You can sell on the GTN and play as much GSF as you like.

 

Other than buying expensive things and getting to experience lock out times on ops are there that many subscriber benefits. Hell is GC was available to preferred, you might have to be insane to be a subscriber cause you get so very very little from it.

 

Stuff like this makes me think most subs have little idea of the restrictions Preferred face, and how it impacts every level of your playing experience. Unlocks and passes can minimize some things but not everything. If GC is available to Preferred with the same system as we have today, they couldn't equip gear without the Artifact Authorization unlock... period. Any endgame level 65 gear is Artifact quality so there's your first price at level 70, unless they paid for an account wide unlock, they can get the gear but anything new they can't equip.

 

Mission rewards regarding containers are a nightmare to lose constantly, you have an XP penalty, you can't pay for character sheet unlocks above 350k, you can't expand your inventory or cargo bay with credits unless you're a sub, you have lower priority on loot rolls... and a lot of other issues like Conquest difficulties, lower reverse engineering chance, diminished reputation.

 

Any endgame activity like Ops or warzones requires a pass per character. Not per account, per character. Why do you think the highest ticket 'give Preferred/F2P this' is endgame activities or the credit cap.

 

It's not advantages, exactly- it's all the restrictions you lose. The CCs and rest experience, or any of the sub rewards would be the only clear positive advantages of a sub- the rest are a large list I can barely scratch the surface of. I don't mind it when people have a different viewpoint but this most recent debate because it's so divisive is really lighting up a lot of misinformation.

 

Like someone who thought Preferred were why Fleet chat is a dive. No, that would be subs- the main culprits can correct and argue too fast and without the consequences a Preferred or F2P player would face for that trash, they are always complaining about getting reported and a slap on the wrist.

[Rheshalea]

Or maybe they need more people to sub because people are spending less on the Cartel Market? This is a genuine question, not an attempt at being snarky.

 

I've been playing SWTOR on/off since the start (or before, beta weekends were the best!). During the off-periods I haven't subbed - why sub for something I'm not actively playing? But when I do play, I sub, because I can't face seeing so many of my alts locked up and unavailable. That is definitely the deal breaker for me.

 

Anyway, I used to sometimes toss money on more cartel coins. I used to sometimes buy big bunches of gambling boxes and as a result, I have more gear than I will ever be able to use already. Nowadays, if/when I do get myself a box for fun, using the coins I get for subbing, the chance is way too big that I'll get the same old crap I already got rid of three times already.

Add to this the gazillion orange shells from the Alliance crates and the DvL stuff. There's already so much to dress my characters up in that it's overwhelming, so why should I buy more?

 

So yeah. I think they messed up. I think people spend less on CM, and that's why they need more people to sub.

[americanaussie]

Look I don't know what the right anserver is bur maybe...just maybe they are moving to giving preferred more access to the under lvl 70 stuff as seen in removing the passes from the cm. Fingers crossed for this to be the case. They're also doing away with expertise and making it merely mastery. That's gotta be in the preferred players basket. No special gear. Top level gear can be crafted it just lacks set bonuses. That's not bad. Would it be good if they allow preferred to play unranked pvp unlimited?

[Tsillah]

Or maybe they need more people to sub because people are spending less on the Cartel Market? This is a genuine question, not an attempt at being snarky.

 

I've been playing SWTOR on/off since the start (or before, beta weekends were the best!). During the off-periods I haven't subbed - why sub for something I'm not actively playing? But when I do play, I sub, because I can't face seeing so many of my alts locked up and unavailable. That is definitely the deal breaker for me.

 

Anyway, I used to sometimes toss money on more cartel coins. I used to sometimes buy big bunches of gambling boxes and as a result, I have more gear than I will ever be able to use already. Nowadays, if/when I do get myself a box for fun, using the coins I get for subbing, the chance is way too big that I'll get the same old crap I already got rid of three times already.

Add to this the gazillion orange shells from the Alliance crates and the DvL stuff. There's already so much to dress my characters up in that it's overwhelming, so why should I buy more?

 

So yeah. I think they messed up. I think people spend less on CM, and that's why they need more people to sub.

 

So in short, because you spend less on the CM for your reasons, everybody else most be the same?

 

That's rather thin don't you think?

 

Having more than you'll ever need is not the same as having everything you want. That's how our society works these days.

 

Now I don't know if in effect people spend more or less in the Cartel Market, but I wouldn't let my personal experience be a guide for the whole player base.

[Transcendent]

Or maybe they need more people to sub because people are spending less on the Cartel Market? This is a genuine question, not an attempt at being snarky.

 

Possibly, I know I haven't been spending money on the Cartel Market since the 4.0 changes, again due to RNG boxes. You would think they would take the hint not all players like the RNG they have in the game. RNG is fine for open world drops and rare vanity items in flashpoints / operations, not for all the things I'm paying for though.

[Rheshalea]

So in short, because you spend less on the CM for your reasons, everybody else most be the same?

 

That's rather thin don't you think?

 

Having more than you'll ever need is not the same as having everything you want. That's how our society works these days.

 

Now I don't know if in effect people spend more or less in the Cartel Market, but I wouldn't let my personal experience be a guide for the whole player base.

 

LOL no. How did you manage to read all that into what I said?

I'm not a special snowflake. I'm one of many. Thus, I'm pretty certain there are probably more people than I who happen to share a similar point of view. People who used to spend more money on the game (read: CM) than they do now.

"I think" means that, exactly. Not "I know" or "this is a fact". It's an opinion.

My whole post was based on the two first sentences in it.

 

"Or maybe they need more people to sub because people are spending less on the Cartel Market? This is a genuine question, not an attempt at being snarky."

 

Note the 'maybe.'

[Sareeph]

So in short, because you spend less on the CM for your reasons, everybody else most be the same?

 

That's rather thin don't you think?

 

Having more than you'll ever need is not the same as having everything you want. That's how our society works these days.

 

Now I don't know if in effect people spend more or less in the Cartel Market, but I wouldn't let my personal experience be a guide for the whole player base.

 

Actually it's a business model. Subs provide a constant steady revenue. The Cartel Market provides additional income but fluctuates. The last thing share holders want to see is a lot of money today and then nothing or very little for 2 months. Steady returns beat fluctuating any day in the business world. As for the preferred, it was imo a way for Bioware to say thanks for previously supporting our enterprise. Here is a little bonus above that of ftp in the hopes that you decide to resub. This cloak and dagger scheme that seems to permeate the minds of so many is the result of their own minds.

[CrazyCT]

Forgot I started this - at least it's staying (mostly) civil.

[DarkEcIipse]

The biggest laugh of them all is if they actually believe this game will succeed in getting more subs after flopping back in 2012. They went from sub to f2p (which really wasn't free it was a trial to punish you into sub or paying micro transactions). To giving everything away for one month of sub and now to sub in order to have gear progression with RNG boxes. Edited October 23, 2016 by DarkEcIipse

[Tsillah]

LOL no. How did you manage to read all that into what I said?

 

This was in direct reply to your statement:

 

So yeah. I think they messed up. I think people spend less on CM, and that's why they need more people to sub.

 

That's what you said and the only reason you gave for that from what I could see is that you spend less on the CM for your reasons. Was it strange that I thought that was a bit thin?

 

Your explanation for why you stopped doing it seemed to be that you realised that you already had more than you would ever need. So I replied that a lot of people care more about want than need and I said that because your example may be true for you personally but may not be representative for others.

 

Again you finished your post by stating that you think people spend less on CM. I didn't see much to support that opinion or belief, that's all.

Edited October 23, 2016 by Tsillah

[ShawDou]

This was in direct reply to your statement:

 

 

 

That's what you said and the only reason you gave for that from what I could see is that you spend less on the CM for your reasons. Was it strange that I thought that was a bit thin?

 

Your explanation for why you stopped doing it seemed to be that you realised that you already had more than you would ever need. So I replied that a lot of people care more about want than need and I said that because your example may be true for you personally but may not be representative for others.

 

Again you finished your post by stating that you think people spend less on CM. I didn't see much to support that opinion or belief, that's all.

 

Well her explanation may not be what most ppl do, but i think she has a point, i also believe that PPL buy less things from CM. Here is why:

 

1. Chance Cubes - For some it might be good, but for whales and collectors who buy most of the packs it is not, they want to buy new stuff, because they already have all old stuff. They dont care about old stuff.

2. Inflation (most important) - Yes from start of 4.0 because of heroics and several money exploits. Packs prices (and all other items on GTN) skyrocketed. Before 4.0 you could get single pack under 350k. This was important, because 350k is Preferred limit. Now they cost over 1 mil. Thanks to this the targeting audience who would buy packs from GTN got much smaller. Only subs could buy them. They stopped sell in quantities as before so ppl who used the to get credits, stooped to buy them as much as before.

 

I dont think a lot of ppl here dont understand how much f2p and preferred was doing for the game and without going F2P there would not be any SWTOR now. In times 2.0 or 3.0, preferred could play this game sub from time to time and enjoy it. SWTOR was prospering. There was a lot of ppl in game who could play, so faster pops and all benefited from it.

 

In 4.0, the inflation alone, made preferred almost unplayable. Slow releasing and focusing made some ppl stay to sub, but not play, so game started to looks like a ghost town. And now they want to go back to 1.0 to pure sub model without OPs and only single player experience. And i fear this will put game to it knees.

Edited October 23, 2016 by ShawDou

[Tsillah]

Well her explanation may not be what most ppl do, but i think she has a point, i also believe that PPL buy less things from CM. Here is why:

 

1. Chance Cubes - For some it might be good, but for whales and collectors who buy most of the packs it is not, they want to buy new stuff, because they already have all old stuff. They dont care about old stuff.

2. Inflation (most important) - Yes from start of 4.0 because of heroics and several money exploits. Packs prices (and all other items on GTN) skyrocketed. Before 4.0 you could get single pack under 350k. This was important, because 350k is Preferred limit. Now they cost over 1 mil. Thanks to this the targeting audience who would buy packs from GTN got much smaller. They stopped sell in quantities as before so ppl who used the to get credits stooped to buy them as much as before.

 

I dont think a lot of ppl here dont understand how much f2p and preferred was doing for the game and without going F2P there would not be any SWTOR now. In times 2.0 or 3.0, preferred could play this game sub from time to time and enjoy it. SWTOR was prospering. There was a lot of ppl in game who could play, so faster pops and all benefited from it.

 

In 4.0, the inflation alone, made preferred almost unplayable. Slow releasing and focusing made some ppl stay to sub, but not play, so game started to looks like a ghost town. And now they want to go back to 1.0 to pure sub model without OPs and only single player experience. And i fear this will put game to it knees.

 

Those are all possible ideas but without actual numbers we're just talking theory. If for example the amount of subs is up from before then the changes with 5.0 could be a result of them having more confidence in the sub model.

 

I do not know what the impact is or was of F2P but unless these people start spending real money on the game there isn't much to be had. So what's better for BWA? A F2P person who buys individual packs from subs or a F2P player who buys crates with real money and sells them to subs for credits and using escrow tokens to spend it?

 

Again I have no numbers but there are reasonable ideas behind both opinions and I have no actual idea what the truth is but it might be something that neither of us expected

[IanArgent]

For everyone saying how back Chance Cubes are, consider this. BW hasn't removed them. And it's not like they aren't quick to make changes on the CM when something they tried is not working out to their satisfaction. See the extremely short lifespan of the BSG packs.

 

If GCCs weren't working out, they'd remove them from the drop tables.

[IanArgent]

And what a coincidence - I post this and someone else necros the "BSG packs have left" thread.