Pref/F2P are Screwed (Gearing)

[JediFollowerJ]

With the new update about how people will be gearing at level 70, pref. and f2p accounts are left out. They won't be able to get gear at all since they won't be subbed. I'd be surprised if the devs even allow them to reach the new level cap of 70. Basically it seems that the devs really like making pref accounts (and f2p) extremely limited in what they can do. It's bad enough that people who aren't subs can't do operations or are limited on how many warzones they can do by themselves, and now they won't be able to get any gear at all (that is if they can reach level 70 of course without subbing.) This means that everyone besides subscribers will be stuck in a gearing rut until they subscribe. Overall it feels like bullying or shaming the players who aren't or won't subscribe.

[Kallie]

Guess you don't play many f2p games.

[JediFollowerJ]

Guess you don't play many f2p games.

 

Me personally? No. In general I don't like the idea of playing several MMO type games at one time. Besides that, I like Star Wars a lot. However, if there was a f2p game that seems interesting to me and doesn't have as harsh limitations as SWTOR has, then I may give it a try. Until then who knows.

[AllisonLightning]

It's okay, I'm getting to that blase/zen moment where I don't care and when the population tanks and subsequent passes and such aren't sold- at least they'll have the comfort of knowing a few people will continue to blame F2P for this and global warming than their idiotic 'chapters don't work, let's make gearing the new monthly chapters'.

 

Memo- when you usually get contempt as a whole and this time, people who would otherwise scorn any relaxing of restrictions balk at gating old content (gearing up) as a sub... I'm sorry a 'premium' perk, and it's actually registering a concern as well as the major RNG gearing up mains and alts issue, no perks for running Ops or PvP really- you've made a pretty big misstep. I'm pretty much okay with restrictions as are, since the game can't withstand the backlash of easing them but adding one that will have a dire effect on population and a direct impact on the sale of your passes?

 

It's the 'let's hug the stand in stupid red circle, it can't possibly hurt...FRELLING HELL, OW!' variety of special.

[JediFollowerJ]

 

Memo- when you usually get contempt as a whole and this time, people who would otherwise scorn any relaxing of restrictions balk at gating old content (gearing up) as a sub... I'm sorry a 'premium' perk, and it's actually registering a concern as well as the major RNG gearing up mains and alts issue, no perks for running Ops or PvP really- you've made a pretty big misstep. I'm pretty much okay with restrictions as are, since the game can't withstand the backlash of easing them but adding one that will have a dire effect on population and a direct impact on the sale of your passes?

 

As far as the ops and wz passes are concerned, they are kind of expensive especially considering the fact that f2p and preferred people can't really access them unless they buy them with credits on the gtn. And I don't know what server you play on but on BC where I play, sellers charge up the wazzu for things like that, which make it impossible for preferred people or f2p to get one. Cartel coins have the same issue since preferred and f2p people are forced then to buy cartel coins with money so they can play a part of the game that should be free to them in the first place.

[AllisonLightning]

As far as the ops and wz passes are concerned, they are kind of expensive especially considering the fact that f2p and preferred people can't really access them unless they buy them with credits on the gtn. And I don't know what server you play on but on BC where I play, sellers charge up the wazzu for things like that, which make it impossible for preferred people or f2p to get one. Cartel coins have the same issue since preferred and f2p people are forced then to buy cartel coins with money so they can play a part of the game that should be free to them in the first place.

 

I'm on Harbinger and the medium price isn't all that bad (pay in mind, to me, several million credits is easy) so people buy them for people and as prizes during guild events- they are also the 'buy in bulk' for subs who are going preferred for a bit although recently, the preferred players I know have just been dropping from the game.

[JediFollowerJ]

I'm on Harbinger and the medium price isn't all that bad (pay in mind, to me, several million credits is easy) so people buy them for people and as prizes during guild events- they are also the 'buy in bulk' for subs who are going preferred for a bit although recently, the preferred players I know have just been dropping from the game.

First of all, eww Harby. Secondly, I guess stuff like that could happen but it's difficult for people who live on money-grubbing servers like BC.

[MadDutchman]

lol, I'm finding the hyperbole coming out of this rather amusing.

 

"won't be able to get gear at all" - what nonsense. Of course you'll still be able to get gear, you just won't be able to get BiS gear. A rather important distinction.

 

The only thing that will be unavailable will be the set bonuses. The only content this might lock them out of is the hardest levels of Ops and Uprisings. They may also likely have trouble in ranked PVP (though since there is a sizable skill component here vs the opposite players, hard to say for sure)

 

They can still do the easier versions of Ops and Uprisings, get the cosmetic drops and the like.

[AllisonLightning]

First of all, eww Harby. Secondly, I guess stuff like that could happen but it's difficult for people who live on money-grubbing servers like BC.

 

I wish so hard you were wrong but I've made an alt legacy on Ebon Hawk away from my main just for a little safe haven... Harbinger is a wretched hive of scum and villainy. I've got a fellow forum member from another site who mains on BC and they pretty much despise my server and I can't blame them.

[JabbaWabbA]

wont get any sympathy from players who pay to play

[Jeweledleah]

Guess you don't play many f2p games.

 

I have played a few (mainly Tera and Neverwinter, but I also dabbled a bit in STO, which is probably the closest example to SWTOR, since its f2p with subscription optional). they weren't nearly as bad. I also play several buy to play games and they are far FAR less restrictive than swtor. technically one can say that given you cannot get anything beyond lvl 50 with f2p, preferred is a form of buy to play.

 

f2p model of SWTOR was already terrible. now its just about unplayable. which, contrary to hopes will not get more people to subscribe. it will get more people to leave

[JediFollowerJ]

wont get any sympathy from players who pay to play

 

Well yeah when you put it that way of course the rich upper crust players won't have any problems at all... at least until/if they can't subscribe and they lose the chance to do things like being able to get gear at 70. On the oustisde subs may not be crying now but on the inside they might, just because they have to sub since they are afraid to lose everything if they don't. (I'm kind of one of them as well.)

[JediFollowerJ]

f2p model of SWTOR was already terrible. now its just about unplayable. which, contrary to hopes will not get more people to subscribe. it will get more people to leave

^I was really surprised when I saw this since it seems like a lot of people don't understand how bad the situation for the game is. Some people really can't afford or won't pay just to unlock some features in the game that in all honesty should be free or at the very very least less expensive.

[EvilNob]

With the new update about how people will be gearing at level 70, pref. and f2p accounts are left out. They won't be able to get gear at all since they won't be subbed. I'd be surprised if the devs even allow them to reach the new level cap of 70. Basically it seems that the devs really like making pref accounts (and f2p) extremely limited in what they can do. It's bad enough that people who aren't subs can't do operations or are limited on how many warzones they can do by themselves, and now they won't be able to get any gear at all (that is if they can reach level 70 of course without subbing.) This means that everyone besides subscribers will be stuck in a gearing rut until they subscribe. Overall it feels like bullying or shaming the players who aren't or won't subscribe.

 

I would love to hear any sort of compelling argument about why you think a F2P player is entitled to the same experience as a subscriber. F2P is nothing but a glorified demo... EA/BW only adopted the model because statistics show that more people get exposed to the game when they can try it for free then convert to paid subscriptions. Do you complain about not being able to hit up a fast food drive through when you test drive a car, or scribble all over a book you borrow from the library? Do you think movie trailers should just show the whole movie and complain when they don't? You probably think college and health care should be free, too. I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm gonna assume that economics isn't your strong point...

[Khevar]

I would love to hear any sort of compelling argument about why you think a F2P player is entitled to the same experience as a subscriber.

The person you quoted never said anything about "the same experience as a subscriber"

I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm gonna assume that economics isn't your strong point...

I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume that debate isn't your strong point.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Khevar

[Rolodome]

EA/BW only adopted the model because statistics show that more people get exposed to the game when they can try it for free then convert to paid subscriptions.

No, they adopted the model because:

 

1) Other games showed that doing a F2P model and having a store can keep the lights on and turn a great profit too (Turbine being one of the most prominent with LOTRO... I'm not sure if they were the first or not).

 

2) Economic downturn meant less people able to afford a sub. Or if they could afford, they had too many other things worth more to them to spend the money on. MMOs need players to support them in numbers, not just in money, so it became common to get the majority of profit out of "whales" (e.g. big spenders), while the F2P, or "small spenders" made up the bulk of the playerbase in pure numbers.

 

I don't know where you got the idea that people getting exposed to the game is the reason. Sub games have traditionally had free trials already, which accomplishes that very thing. The history indicates that F2P models becoming a thing was largely a mixture of the two points above... addressing the problems of economic downturn mixed with the knowledge of how much profit could be made.

[JabbaWabbA]

Well yeah when you put it that way of course the rich upper crust players won't have any problems at all... at least until/if they can't subscribe and they lose the chance to do things like being able to get gear at 70. On the oustisde subs may not be crying now but on the inside they might, just because they have to sub since they are afraid to lose everything if they don't. (I'm kind of one of them as well.)

 

anyone that takes this game that seriously needs therapy

[Nempo]

Me personally? No. In general I don't like the idea of playing several MMO type games at one time. Besides that, I like Star Wars a lot. However, if there was a f2p game that seems interesting to me and doesn't have as harsh limitations as SWTOR has, then I may give it a try. Until then who knows.

 

Harsh limitations? You REALLY know nothing about F2P models...TOR has the most open F2P model of any MMO. 8 fully voiced class stories that you can fully complete completely for free. Most F2P models limit your level (20 is a popular level I have noticed) which means you never even get to sniff at endgame. They also typically limit what you can equip (no purples) and many limit your wallet size. Also, quite typically they also limit you in number of dungeon runs you can go on, and PvP is often completely locked for the free accounts. NO F2P model allows endgame at all. Compared to all of that, TOR's model is extremely open and accessable.

 

As an aside for people who may try and use examples, if you use in game credits to buy a month sub, no...you are not free to play, you just have someone else buying your sub for you...the game company is still getting their money for a sub...thus for all purposes you aren't free to play.

 

No, they adopted the model because:

 

1) Other games showed that doing a F2P model and having a store can keep the lights on and turn a great profit too (Turbine being one of the most prominent with LOTRO... I'm not sure if they were the first or not).

 

2) Economic downturn meant less people able to afford a sub. Or if they could afford, they had too many other things worth more to them to spend the money on. MMOs need players to support them in numbers, not just in money, so it became common to get the majority of profit out of "whales" (e.g. big spenders), while the F2P, or "small spenders" made up the bulk of the playerbase in pure numbers.

 

I don't know where you got the idea that people getting exposed to the game is the reason. Sub games have traditionally had free trials already, which accomplishes that very thing. The history indicates that F2P models becoming a thing was largely a mixture of the two points above... addressing the problems of economic downturn mixed with the knowledge of how much profit could be made.

 

It costs 15 bucks a month. Step away from the alcohol and smokes and you could afford the sub and then some. Buying a beer at a club costs one month of subscription. Seeing a movie at the theater costs usually more than a month of sub. Compared tot he hours of entertainment....almost nothing gives you the same bang for your buck so if you honestly truly cannot sub, you have bigger problems to worry about than a game.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Nempo

[Nevaeh-Heaven]

"Pref/F2P are Screwed (Gearing)

 

I want to see how it works first before jumping to that conclusion. But It does seem that way at the moment. I will never be in favour of giving F2P more than they get now, but if BW are going to have a F2P then they should not be taking away from them either. As I said though I want to see how it works for F2P after 5.0 go's live. I have a F2P account as well so be in a good position to judge.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Nevaeh-Heaven

[The-Kaitou-Kid]

I'd be surprised if the devs even allow them to reach the new level cap of 70.

 

I'd be surprised too, since that'd be different from what they've done in the past. Without paying at release in some form or another, you've never gotten the levels from an expansion as F2P or Preferred. With ROTHC & SOR, even subs didn't get the levels without purchasing the expansion. With KOTFE, the expansion was given to all subscribers so the levels were "sub only" if you'd like to think of it that way. To that end, I'm fairly certain F2P cap is 50 at the moment, although somebody can certainly correct me if I'm wrong. I've been a sub for a couple years at this point so I can't say I'm 100% sure.

 

I'm not discounting your overall point, at least in regards to Preferred (this does nothing to F2P, since they won't be getting anywhere close to level 70 regardless). Former subscribers who have access to KOTET should have access to level 70 gear. Make it slower to obtain, sure, but it should be obtainable. However, F2P/Preferred not getting to level cap is nothing new and it makes the gearing discussion more complicated since it only (significantly) affects Preferred players who subscribed for KOTET and then unsubscribed afterward. Anybody who's preferred/F2P right now wouldn't have gotten to 70 or obtained any level 70 end game gear regardless since they wouldn't "own" KOTET, unless Bioware changed how that worked which I wouldn't expect to happen.

Edited October 20, 2016 by The-Kaitou-Kid

[Cheops]

With the new update about how people will be gearing at level 70, pref. and f2p accounts are left out. They won't be able to get gear at all since they won't be subbed. I'd be surprised if the devs even allow them to reach the new level cap of 70. Basically it seems that the devs really like making pref accounts (and f2p) extremely limited in what they can do. It's bad enough that people who aren't subs can't do operations or are limited on how many warzones they can do by themselves, and now they won't be able to get any gear at all (that is if they can reach level 70 of course without subbing.) This means that everyone besides subscribers will be stuck in a gearing rut until they subscribe. Overall it feels like bullying or shaming the players who aren't or won't subscribe.

 

if you go read what was posted.. specifically this is

Players will be able to craft comparable item level gear without set bonuses.

 

they will NOT be left out.. the just will not be able to get the set bonuses..

[nyrkverse]

wont get any sympathy from players who pay to play

 

that's incredibly shortsighted. The more people are playing, the better it is for everyone. Pref players have paid for the game at some point. Pref players buy or trade things somebody has paid for at some point. Pref players make your queues pop faster. Pref players are often just subscribers on a break in between content cycles and alienating them means they might not resub when the next expansion is live.

 

This game had to introduce the F2P model and we wouldn't be here talking about it if it hadn't.

[CorellianWannabe]

if you go read what was posted.. specifically this is

 

 

they will NOT be left out.. the just will not be able to get the set bonuses..

 

Will that gear require crafting materials only found in group content like the 212 gear now? Will free/preferred players be able to access the grade 10 gathering nodes? Will schematics drop from group content, or will players actually be able to learn to make this mythical 'just as good as the best gear, we promise' from the trainer?

[SithKoriandr]

that's incredibly shortsighted. The more people are playing, the better it is for everyone. Pref players have paid for the game at some point. Pref players buy or trade things somebody has paid for at some point. Pref players make your queues pop faster. Pref players are often just subscribers on a break in between content cycles and alienating them means they might not resub when the next expansion is live.

 

This game had to introduce the F2P model and we wouldn't be here talking about it if it hadn't.

 

Yes, the more playing the better, however those not paying into the game, aren't helping it stay up, they're just making it look like it populated.

 

If everyone stayed strictly free player, no paying out, there wouldn't be a game.

 

It's 15 a month for a sub, that's 25 cents a day. It's not expensive.

 

Though, they said in a post before, they made more off P2Pers using the cash shop than any f2p using it. Those who are willing to purchase a sub, are willing to spend money. The others just want a free game.

[CorellianWannabe]

Yes, the more playing the better, however those not paying into the game, aren't helping it stay up, they're just making it look like it populated.

 

If everyone stayed strictly free player, no paying out, there wouldn't be a game.

 

It's 15 a month for a sub, that's 25 cents a day. It's not expensive.

 

Though, they said in a post before, they made more off P2Pers using the cash shop than any f2p using it. Those who are willing to purchase a sub, are willing to spend money. The others just want a free game.

 

So if all the free players left EA would be cool with the drop in numbers of people playing? It wouldn't affect the game's budget at all? The fabled metrics wouldn't show any detrimental changes?