Best Burst Spec Jugg or Mara?

[KyosukeDei]

Hi, Thanks for all the replies. No need to fight it out.

 

I'm quite sad to read Smash is not as awesome as i used to be. Though I've found Vengeance Jugg relaxing and fun, doesn't have the same feel to me old Mara Rage/Fury spec.

 

That said why is Jugg rage not as strong as Mara Rage/Fury? They used to be around the same if not Jugg was slight stronger. I mean Cloak is awesome but I don't know how it fits now.

 

I remember running all the hard instances in PvE in PVP gear and just going all mara and Jugg smash with maybe a off-healer... good times.

 

From the looks of the skills and what not, I see Rage/Fury with the new single target burst rotation..?

 

Again I'm trying to find the right class/spec for PvP for when 5.0 hits as well, and i wanna brush up on my mechanics obv.

[Tsetso]

That said why is Jugg rage not as strong as Mara Rage/Fury? They used to be around the same if not Jugg was slight stronger. I mean Cloak is awesome but I don't know how it fits now.

Fury gets gravity vortex which gives cc immunity after you use force exhaustion, rage does not.

[KyosukeDei]

Fury gets gravity vortex which gives cc immunity after you use force exhaustion, rage does not.

 

Ah I see. That seems like... I really poor design choice by BW... man...

[Asaxor]

Last URC a mara had to win against a DPS sorc. He lost the first round in anni I believe (was best of 5). He then respecced carnage, j/k strike that, I mean he respecced to fury and beat the living crap out of that sorc.

[SVTCarnage]

So since I've been away we got walls of text, and some guy bragging about beating Carnage Marauders as a Sorcerer or a Assassin, on my phone but that all sounds about right, very proud of ya.

 

So back to answering the OP, again play whatever you want. You won't get any consistent opinions.

Edited October 20, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[Greezt]

So since I've been away we got walls of text, and some guy bragging about beating Carnage Marauders as a Sorcerer or a Assassin, on my phone but that all sounds about right, very proud of ya.

 

So back to answering the OP, again play whatever you want. You won't get any consistent opinions.

 

Dude. If you don't FoTM you're a nobody. A nobody.

 

 

A NOBODY.

[SVTCarnage]

Dude. If you don't FoTM you're a nobody. A nobody.

 

 

A NOBODY.

 

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

I was very on-point. You should read the entire topic. I'm arguing that carnage has no burst against a skilled player, because it is one of the most predictable specs in the game and it is very easy to force carnage to waste its gore, over and over again.

 

I also talked about why people think carnage is good. I specifically mentioned that these people use ship dummy logic, which is what you're doing. Ship dummies don't fight back. You can jump on them, unload everything, and they just take it. This doesn't work against decent players. You pop gore, and you get stunned or pushed for your troubles. I mentioned that Fury has gravity vortex to protect its burst, while carnage has no such protection, and the other guy's response was that it doesn't matter because you can just ask other players to help you use your burst.

 

As a carnage Marauder, I cannot deny many of your points. They do hold merit, that said however, in regs, the marauders you see doing the most damage are almost always Annihilation and Carnage.

 

You made the point about theoretical vs. the reality of things.

 

Can carnage be shut down easier than Fury, without question.

Do people screw up gore a decent amount of the time, they sure do.

Fury has excellent anti cc abilities that are extremely useful in PVP [obviously].

 

But if you want to talk pure numbers, a Carnage Marauder that hits with his burst vs a Fury that hits with his burst, the numbers themselves, the actual damage, is higher with Carnage burst than with Fury burst when they both hit. There is a reason why in PVE in Operations it is extremely rare that you see a Fury Marauder and that reason is that their DPS output is significantly and noticeably less than Carnage. That's not theoretical, that's a fact.

 

Even in PVP [regs] most of the marauders you see aren't fury spec, and I'm often surprised how rarely you do see Fury Maras in warzones. There has to be a reason for that. G

 

Given the inherently fast nature of PVP, that Fury moves like a slug may be partially the reason you don't see more of them.

 

And while sustained is not the most effective way to DPS in wzs, the fact is that Carnage has very good sustained as well so even whey they do lose their burst window, their sustained is still quite decent and can still make a telling difference whereas Fury's sustained is virtually none existent. Additionally, even if your gore window is messed up, with a reasonable amount of alacrity, you can still use your VT and DB [albeit with less damage than if it was in a gore window] and with proper use of frenzy you can immediately get your beserk back in one second flat and be ready to use your gore window again. It would be extremely unwise to use two stuns back to back to stop a second gore window that can be regained one second later with frenzy. Additionally, there are ways to make your chances of getting your gore window off much more probable. The use of Force choke, Intimidating Roar, Force Camouflage, utility immobilization, even the use of ravage prior to the gore window which will sometimes cause people to use their interrupt for it's channel, all help to some degree to land more reliable gore windows.

 

But yeah, you do lose gore windows, no doubt about it.

 

That said however, I would venture to say that Fury has better suitability than Carnage, less stuns, less mezzes, less slows, less getting your *** handed to you.

 

So while many of your points are undeniable, I am curious as to how you would account for the fact that both Anni and Carnage Marauders are almost always doing more damage on the scoreboards than Fury Maras. To be perfectly honest, it confuses the crap out of me. Maybe that's not the case on your server, but on the Shadowlands you can set your clock to it.

 

Sighting how Sorcs, Assassins, and Operatives, even Snipers and Juggs can mess your burst is a transient point, and not only for Maras. They can mess up everyone's ideal attack set ups a decent amount of the time. There's a reason they're FoTM classes.

Edited October 21, 2016 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[SVTCarnage]

Last URC a mara had to win against a DPS sorc. He lost the first round in anni I believe (was best of 5). He then respecced carnage, j/k strike that, I mean he respecced to fury and beat the living crap out of that sorc.

 

Annihilation and Fury are better then Carnage for beating a Sorcerer, and Annihilation over all in my opinion is the best all around marauder spec. The title of the thread is "Best Burst Spec Jugg or Mara?", of course it goes into more detail, but the answer to the thread is Carnage Marauder. Carnage has the best burst, but some are getting burst and what spec is the best over all in PvP mixed up. Not pointing that finger at you necessarily, but just whoever is participating in the thread in general.

Edited October 21, 2016 by SVTCarnage

[frosttj]

Annihilation and Fury are better then Carnage for beating a Sorcerer, and Annihilation over all in my opinion is the best all around marauder spec. The title of the thread is "Best Burst Spec Jugg or Mara?", of course it goes into more detail, but the answer to the thread is Carnage Marauder. Carnage has the best burst, but some are getting burst and what spec is the best over all in PvP mixed up. Not pointing that finger at you necessarily, but just whoever is participating in the thread in general.

 

I think they're pretty even in their perspective smasher specs. They both bring some utility to the fight, they both have their perks. A jugg can live through a little more punishment if the healer isnt paying attention while dishing out burst, a mara has a guaranteed 6 seconds of burst every 30seconds without interruption. Both have the same 2 leaps, and twirly bird dash, and push the same damage. Me personally, I enjoy mara over the juggy, simply because of pred. But at the end of the day, I think fury and rage are both slow clunky specs to play that don't line up well. I almost always run carnage or annihilation.