Star Wars Galaxies - NGE

[Andryah]

Are they going to slap us in the face with the NGE, the nail, or the coffin?

 

It's more complicated....

 

You will get a /NGE-slap, causing you to lose balance and follow on the nail, and then roll unconsciously into the coffin.

[Soljin]

Ah yes, the good ol' days of sitting in the med center for hours getting rid of the black bars. Good times, good times.

 

Having consequences for death in a game made people try and stay alive, learn more and deploy strategy....because they knew they would be stuck in the Med center (to heal their mind bar) if they didn't! Genius design!

 

Besides after hunting and skinning Rancor for hours it was a fun time sitting in the wilderness of Dathomir in a camp with a few friends healing up...talking about how freaked we were when we almost died...Because it had consequence.

 

Back on topic...This is not an NGE level change...RNG is garbage and already been proven so yes but they have not changed the fundamental design of the class system or combat....

[myrdinn]

Having consequences for death in a game made people try and stay alive, learn more and deploy strategy....because they knew they would be stuck in the Med center (to heal their mind bar) if they didn't! Genius design!

 

....and, then, later, three deaths and ye grind be over. Makes one very, very, very cagey and careful! That, and making a mess of backpacks renamed to your toon's name.

 

I *still* have a distaste for the clone-cycle, and it's been years.

[UmbralSpirit]

NGE was the best SWG era

 

Some friendly advice, you shouldn't leave your house for a while after posting such nonsense.

[XiamaraSimi]

Much as I might dislike what Bioware has done to, and will do to SWTOR, having gone through SWGs NGE, no, definitly not.

 

Until I log in and see they removed every advanced class in the game and say I -have to- make my Imperial characters into either a "Bounty Hunter" or a "Warrior", with no other options (no agents, no inquisitors) I will shake my head at your misunderstanding of what being NGEd is.

 

I played a Master Creature Handler/Master Swords in SWH pre NGE.

 

My character (and all her combat pets) was euthanized.

Edited October 20, 2016 by XiamaraSimi

[Soljin]

Much as I might dislike what Bioware has done to, and will do to SWTOR, having gone through SWGs NGE, no, definitly not.

 

Until I log in and see they removed every advanced class in the game and say I -have to- make my Imperial characters into either a "Bounty Hunter" or a "Warrior", with no other options (no agents, no inquisitors) I will shake my head at your misunderstanding of what being NGEd is.

 

I played a Master Creature Handler/Master Swords in SWH pre NGE.

 

My character (and all her combat pets) was euthanized.

 

I miss Creature Handler the most.......I miss my twin Gurrcats....

[Rolodome]

....and, then, later, three deaths and ye grind be over. Makes one very, very, very cagey and careful! That, and making a mess of backpacks renamed to your toon's name.

 

I *still* have a distaste for the clone-cycle, and it's been years.

Corpse run was unnecessary time-wasting, but I didn't mind the black bars part of it because of the culture brought forth by entertainers and doctors. The idea of just sitting in a cantina and having a conversation with somebody, while your stuff heals up. It gave you a reason to slow down and enjoy the social aspect of an MMO. And some entertainers were really good about being an entertainer in spirit, not just in game mechanics.

[Rolodome]

I miss Creature Handler the most.......I miss my twin Gurrcats....

God, me too. Creature Handler was just... I have no words for it. The funny thing is, I'm not that into animals or having pets, but for some reason, CH struck a chord with me in a huge way. Maybe because it was like having a pet without having to take care of it for reals.

[UmbralSpirit]

Corpse run was unnecessary time-wasting

 

Carebear Alert!

[Rolodome]

Carebear Alert!

Makes me think of that Key and Peele sketch:

 

 

Now I'm probably gonna end up on a Key and Peele bender, thanks.

[TUXs]

Corpse run was unnecessary time-wasting, but I didn't mind the black bars part of it because of the culture brought forth by entertainers and doctors. The idea of just sitting in a cantina and having a conversation with somebody, while your stuff heals up. It gave you a reason to slow down and enjoy the social aspect of an MMO. And some entertainers were really good about being an entertainer in spirit, not just in game mechanics.

You mentioned something I loved, the whole black bar and social thing was brilliant imo, but it got me thinking...do you think players would accept that at all these days?

 

I don't...not because gamers have changed necessarily, but because socialization has. I honestly view the whole entertainer part of SWG, as a precursor to what social media has become...but now that it's so prevalent and invasive in our lives, I don't believe players want it in their entertainment.

[UmbralSpirit]

I don't...not because gamers have changed necessarily, but because socialization has. I honestly view the whole entertainer part of SWG, as a precursor to what social media has become...but now that it's so prevalent and invasive in our lives, I don't believe players want it in their entertainment.

 

If by "social" media you mean Facebook/Twitter and Co. then i have to say you just insulted the entertainers from back then (or today, as there are still dedicated Ents on the emu).

[Rolodome]

You mentioned something I loved, the whole black bar and social thing was brilliant imo, but it got me thinking...do you think players would accept that at all these days?

 

I don't...not because gamers have changed necessarily, but because socialization has. I honestly view the whole entertainer part of SWG, as a precursor to what social media has become...but now that it's so prevalent and invasive in our lives, I don't believe players want it in their entertainment.

It's an interesting point of discussion, for sure. I went from the culture of pre-CU SWG to playing a WoW-like MMO... Rift. For something like two years. The reason I bring it up is because after playing Rift for so long, I noticed that it changed something in me, in regards to games and entertainment. I wanted things to be more fast-paced, I became more of a "power-gamer," trying to min-max every single moment.

 

So do I think people would accept it now? Probably not. I think it would require a conscious desire to slow down and say screw it to the fast-paced culture we're immersed in.

 

As for how social media itself ties in, I'm not sure I entirely understand what you mean. I think I get the idea... that with social media being so prevalent, what's the point in doing the SWG entertainer experience? Perhaps if we reach a point where we collectively reject social media, similar to how we are collectively rejecting the inauthentic. Cause I think the entertainer part of SWG is closer to what you'd find in a chatroom, or on a forum (like this one) than what you find on social media.

 

But it may be that it's just dead and is a vestige of a bygone era.

[Soljin]

So do I think people would accept it now? Probably not. I think it would require a conscious desire to slow down and say screw it to the fast-paced culture we're immersed in.

 

The only thing that will save MMO gaming ultimately is when people step out of the collective mind and start "Smelling the roses"....

 

Stopping to enjoy what was put into designs or how complex and interesting a system is what made MMOs and gaming great.

 

Participating in the money grab with graphics is the decline of fun.....If design decisions are being made solely to increase revenue and making a fun game is no longer the goal.....well, you end up with game that inst fun....

 

The NGE happened because SOE could not manage the game as it was and wanted to make it more like their other titles so they could "Share Devs"....So they turned the most complex MMO in history to date into an EQ2 clone....and go figure it died slow and painful like....

Edited October 20, 2016 by Soljin

[PlasmaJohn]

The idea of just sitting in a cantina and having a conversation with somebody, while your stuff heals up. It gave you a reason to slow down and enjoy the social aspect of an MMO.

Depends on how you want to socialize. Sitting down chatting in a cantina while an entertainer does their thing is an RP'er activity which still happens in SW:TOR, Wildstar, LOTRO, WoW, etc. Other people like to get together on VOIP and beat the crap out of a large bag of hit points with interesting mechanics or a different team on their own (or the same! ) VOIP channel.

 

Corpse runs, looting, forced PvP, heavy death penalties are awful ideas that deserved to die or at least be exiled to some small corner of the 'net for the weirdos that like that sort of thing. If for no other reason than it's incredibly hard to ensure that those consequences didn't happen due to code, network or equipment errors. Nothing frustrates players more than loss due to external factors.

 

Except maybe being blocked from content due to RNG. But hey, if that's what Austin thinks is a grand idea maybe perhaps their paychecks should be gated behind a sliding probability. Jan.: 12/12 (100%), Feb 11/12 (92%), Mar 10/12 (83%), etc. One roll per month, if they don't get it this month, better luck next month!

[myrdinn]

It's an interesting point of discussion, for sure. I went from the culture of pre-CU SWG to playing a WoW-like MMO... Rift. For something like two years. The reason I bring it up is because after playing Rift for so long, I noticed that it changed something in me, in regards to games and entertainment. I wanted things to be more fast-paced, I became more of a "power-gamer," trying to min-max every single moment.

 

So do I think people would accept it now? Probably not. I think it would require a conscious desire to slow down and say screw it to the fast-paced culture we're immersed in.

 

As for how social media itself ties in, I'm not sure I entirely understand what you mean. I think I get the idea... that with social media being so prevalent, what's the point in doing the SWG entertainer experience? Perhaps if we reach a point where we collectively reject social media, similar to how we are collectively rejecting the inauthentic. Cause I think the entertainer part of SWG is closer to what you'd find in a chatroom, or on a forum (like this one) than what you find on social media.

 

But it may be that it's just dead and is a vestige of a bygone era.

 

Eh, I don't know. I did like the cantinas and talking to the Ents (when there was a person behind the toon).

For that matter, the one stop hubs (mindhealing in the front room, medical buffs in the back) always had something of a.. Star Warsy feel about it. Two folks I know ran a cantina wherein the med buffs were roleplayed as "illegal backroom activities"... with a spice vendor next to the egress.

You had to know the right back alley around Coronet to find it, but it was a nice night-club spot (they used the guildhall to make it).

[TUXs]

If by "social" media you mean Facebook/Twitter and Co. then i have to say you just insulted the entertainers from back then (or today, as there are still dedicated Ents on the emu).

Well I did, but not quite the way you're taking it...I meant no disrespect to the Entertainers

 

I believe the social aspect is absolutely critical to an MMO - I just don't think it's the novelty it once was...because we have so much of that these days. Back then, there wasn't 1/100th of what we have now...it was a new and exciting experience...the whole interweb was new tbh. Nowadays we take conversing with people from the opposite side of the planet as 'normal'. That's where I was going with that...

[Andryah]

The reason I bring it up is because after playing Rift for so long, I noticed that it changed something in me, in regards to games and entertainment. I wanted things to be more fast-paced, I became more of a "power-gamer," trying to min-max every single moment.

 

I noticed a similar effect from Rift. I think it was the open world nature of roaming and ganking rifts for either xp, or drops, or credit for tokens. Rifts were free for all and anyone could jump in at any time. It became particularly noticeable when farming high level crafting rifts, which were a great way to earn sellable materials for notable income, since much of the best gear early on was crafted. It became a big squirrel race to each Rift to gank it down as fast as possible.. until everyone ran out of tokens to pop crafting rifts. I have to give them credit.. they made rift running fairly addictive... precisely because of the random nature of them.... which is ironic considering the huge blow back about anything RNG in the forum here right now.

 

I did not see it with Raids in Rift, but I did find that their raid methodology finally got me to pull the plug on regular raiding in MMOs for good. Rift raids finally opened my eyes and let me walk away from progression raiding.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Andryah

[UmbralSpirit]

Depends on how you want to socialize. Sitting down chatting in a cantina while an entertainer does their thing is an RP'er activity

 

I believe you don't really understand what RP means, a little hint having a normal conversation and making use of a beneficial game mechanic is NOT roleplaying.

 

Corpse runs, looting, forced PvP, heavy death penalties are awful ideas that deserved to die or at least be exiled to some small corner of the 'net for the weirdos that like that sort of thing. If for no other reason than it's incredibly hard to ensure that those consequences didn't happen due to code, network or equipment errors. Nothing frustrates players more than loss due to external factors.

 

You are talking about the instant gratification generation OFC they don't want any of these things all they want is "OMGLEETZROFLSTOMPROXXOR".......God's beware they would suffer a punishment or penalty for anything.....whiny little *******.

 

 

Well I did, but not quite the way you're taking it...I meant no disrespect to the Entertainers

 

I believe the social aspect is absolutely critical to an MMO - I just don't think it's the novelty it once was...because we have so much of that these days. Back then, there wasn't 1/100th of what we have now...it was a new and exciting experience...the whole interweb was new tbh. Nowadays we take conversing with people from the opposite side of the planet as 'normal'. That's where I was going with that...

 

I see your point but i have to disagree on the internet being still new in 03 but that probably also depends on each individuals age and experience i guess.

Edited October 20, 2016 by UmbralSpirit

[jedip_enguin]

NGE comparisons in 2016

[Rolodome]

I noticed a similar effect from Rift. I think it was the open world nature of roaming and ganking rifts for either xp, or drops, or credit for tokens. Rifts were free for all and anyone could jump in at any time. It became particularly noticeable when farming high level crafting rifts, which were a great way to earn sellable materials for notable income, since much of the best gear early on was crafted. It became a big squirrel race to each Rift to gank it down as fast as possible.. until everyone ran out of tokens to pop crafting rifts. I have to give them credit.. they made rift running fairly addictive... precisely because of the random nature of them.... which is ironic considering the huge blow back about anything RNG in the forum here right now.

 

I did not see it with Raids in Rift, but I did find that their raid methodology finally got me to pull the plug on regular raiding in MMOs for good. Rift raids finally opened my eyes and let me walk away from progression raiding.

I hadn't thought about the effect of the Rifts themselves. I do remember the running around though, spending hours sometimes, with groups, doing them. Plus there was the instant travel component, which was not something I had encountered before. Soul Travel, ports, insta-porting with dungeon finder and such. In this game, it's even more so that way, where you can have 0 cooldown on Quick Travel and just port around ceaselessly if you want. Then I find myself getting annoyed because I have to travel for a few minutes by mount on a planet like Tatooine. Because the change in speed is so jarring.

 

I'm curious, what about their raid methodology was off-putting to you? Theirs was my first encounter with raiding, so I didn't have any other base of comparison. I enjoyed them quite a lot, but I got pretty well burnt out on trying to progress with too much of a casual team.

 

Eh, I don't know. I did like the cantinas and talking to the Ents (when there was a person behind the toon).

For that matter, the one stop hubs (mindhealing in the front room, medical buffs in the back) always had something of a.. Star Warsy feel about it. Two folks I know ran a cantina wherein the med buffs were roleplayed as "illegal backroom activities"... with a spice vendor next to the egress.

You had to know the right back alley around Coronet to find it, but it was a nice night-club spot (they used the guildhall to make it).

I hear you. I think the real people giving cantinas life in the way they did was truly memorable.

 

Depends on how you want to socialize. Sitting down chatting in a cantina while an entertainer does their thing is an RP'er activity which still happens in SW:TOR, Wildstar, LOTRO, WoW, etc. Other people like to get together on VOIP and beat the crap out of a large bag of hit points with interesting mechanics or a different team on their own (or the same! ) VOIP channel.

 

Corpse runs, looting, forced PvP, heavy death penalties are awful ideas that deserved to die or at least be exiled to some small corner of the 'net for the weirdos that like that sort of thing. If for no other reason than it's incredibly hard to ensure that those consequences didn't happen due to code, network or equipment errors. Nothing frustrates players more than loss due to external factors.

 

Except maybe being blocked from content due to RNG. But hey, if that's what Austin thinks is a grand idea maybe perhaps their paychecks should be gated behind a sliding probability. Jan.: 12/12 (100%), Feb 11/12 (92%), Mar 10/12 (83%), etc. One roll per month, if they don't get it this month, better luck next month!

Thing is, the reason I liked the way pre-CU did it is because I didn't see it (the black bar part, that is) as a penalty, I saw it as part of an overall human and "virtual world" system. RP is not the only reason to chat people up in a cantina and in that game, a lot of the socializing (that I know of) was just people chatting the way you might chat with guildies in guild chat, or in VOIP.

 

The only thing that will save MMO gaming ultimately is when people step out of the collective mind and start "Smelling the roses"....

 

Stopping to enjoy what was put into designs or how complex and interesting a system is what made MMOs and gaming great.

 

Participating in the money grab with graphics is the decline of fun.....If design decisions are being made solely to increase revenue and making a fun game is no longer the goal.....well, you end up with game that inst fun....

 

The NGE happened because SOE could not manage the game as it was and wanted to make it more like their other titles so they could "Share Devs"....So they turned the most complex MMO in history to date into an EQ2 clone....and go figure it died slow and painful like....

I think I would be happy to see that day. After pre-CU, I've never stopped loving the idea of sinking into a virtual world. SWTOR has a certain level of sinking in, in the single-player sense, with their story experience, but it's not quite the same as sinking into a community of real people.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Rolodome

[UmbralSpirit]

NGE comparisons in 2016

 

And that won't change, the moment SWTOR was announced it had to deal with being compared with SWG and that will be the case for as long as there are people alive who remember SWG......yea,yea i am overdramatic again, who cares.

Edited October 20, 2016 by UmbralSpirit

[Ralei]

Thing is, the reason I liked the way pre-CU did it is because I didn't see it (the black bar part, that is) as a penalty, I saw it as part of an overall human and "virtual world" system. RP is not the only reason to chat people up in a cantina and in that game, a lot of the socializing (that I know of) was just people chatting the way you might chat with guildies in guild chat, or in VOIP.

 

 

I have fond memories of doing really dumb and "boring" stuff like waiting at the damn star ports FOREVER with 25-30 people entertaining each other with nothing but emotes and dances. Talk about primitive

 

They totally designed that game as a real life simulator - but in the Star Wars universe. Which was kind of a bizarre thing to do. I mean, when you think of Star Wars, you don't think of a business simulator where you search for resources on vast planets, create fields of industrial farming, hire merchants, advertise your unique merchandise, and become a damn online celebrity cause your guns are so amazing.

 

It would be cool if the social aspect of the cantinas and medcenters could be integrated into a modern mmo with social media like twitter or youtube. You can share cat videos and trump gifs with everyone right in the game while you're waiting for you buff.

[ReverendAnderson]

Yes!!! Finally! The SWG NGE thread! I've been waiting for this. It took you long enough, man. Next will be the final nail in the coffin thread!

 

/popcorn

 

Don't forget the Slap in the Face thread.

[ReverendAnderson]

Laugh all you like, plenty of people laughed at those events... Remind me how much group content we've gotten in 2 years? Remind me how full the servers are?

 

Each one of those has killed off another part of the player base and it hasn't been replaced fully each time, and much of what DID replace it was a bunch of F2P kids who don't add much to the game.

 

So keep laughing and shrugging it off, live in fantasy land if you like. If the game was doing well, they wouldn't be making changes, the changes are here because the game ISN'T doing well, but that is because of all the other changes in the past. The game has been off the rails for some time, 5.0 is not going to put it back on.

 

An MMO is losing population over time? Surely you're joking. -__-

Is this board's toxic community SWTOR's NGE?