The real question is: Why bother with gear?? We did all there is in game!!

[cloneofdax]

Why are only they entitled to it? If they can earn their items in 2 days from challenging content, and it takes me 2 months of grinding on easier content, why should they care? The elite player was rewarded by getting their gear substantially sooner. The solo player will be rewarded for their grind.

 

How my solo character is geared and how I got it doesn't impact an elitist other than their e-peen.

 

Well said. Also a lot may not do Op's but will do WZ's. So if someone has better gear then? That's why no rated gear should be exclusive. So I agree with Tessie on this.

Edited October 19, 2016 by cloneofdax

[Tsetso]

I realize you were just answering my question, so this isn't really directed at you...

 

But this sounds like a problem that needs fixing. With the new system, harder content will reward gear faster than easier content. Just because its a slower rate than it is today, doesn't mean that its a bad change. Especially if its currently at a ridiculously short time now.

 

Why is this a problem that needs fixing? What's wrong with players choosing what type of content they want to play?

[Tanitha]

It feels like you're changing the topic. I can't argue that random sucks. But my argument had nothing to do about that, but why should we gear, and who should be allowed to have access to top tier gear.

 

Well, I did not get a full set of 224 gear by playing SOLO heroics. I got it by spending time learning my rotation, banging at a dummy for hours to get it right. Playing a boss and wiping on it for weeks, until we get all the tactics right to kill it. In order to get the top tier gear it takes:

 

1. Knowledge of your class and spec, from your powers, to rotation, to what to do when your rotation gets screwed.

2. Dedication to your teammates, cooperation with your teammates.

3. Tactics and positioning in an op, and being able to adapt when things don't go as planned.

4. Listening to your ops lead/officers, since they usually have studied the tactics and most times, have done that same ops a lot and killed the boss.

5. Patience.

6. And being able to dedicate a few hours per week, usually in the evening to play ops.

 

And lastly, and very important, being able to have fun even when wiping 15 times in a row.

 

Now, playing heroics and doing solo stuff, like KOTFE chapters don't even come close to what it takes to do ops. if you want that top tier gear then you should work for it, and not get it by doing SOLO stuff, for which you don't even need it. I soloed heroics whilst leveling my PT with green gear which I did not change until I got to level 65 and did not change from L25-30.

 

If with crystal comms, 208 gear you cannot solo heroics, I don't know what to say...

[Ligurio]

IWith the new system, harder content will reward gear faster than easier content.

 

That's absolutely not sure.

Killing a HM (or worse, NiM) boss takes a long time. I could do a lot of heroics (more with a team of 4) in the time needed to kill let's say Draxus HM.

Of course, if gc points are given for finishing the operation quest rather than for each boss, that gives absolutely no incentive to try ToS (spending a dozen hours a week wiping on Revan HM is sometimes fun but it's not an incentive)

 

In fact, I'm quite sure that people will be quite content to just run EV/KP and maybe Darvannis and let the other operations rot. But I guess that's what BW wants to achieve.

[Tessie]

Why is this a problem that needs fixing? What's wrong with players choosing what type of content they want to play?

 

I was saying getting a full set of gear in 2 hours, regardless of how its earned, is a problem. People SHOULD be allowed to do the content they want to earn the rewards they want. I'm saying people who do more challenging content should earn it faster than those doing non-challenging content.

[Tsetso]

I was saying getting a full set of gear in 2 hours, regardless of how its earned, is a problem. People SHOULD be allowed to do the content they want to earn the rewards they want. I'm saying people who do more challenging content should earn it faster than those doing non-challenging content.

 

That's how ops are designed. So grinding for 3 months for the equivalent of current 220 with a rng system on top of the grind just to have a chance at NiM is not acceptable.

[Damask_Rose]

I realize you were just answering my question, so this isn't really directed at you...

 

But this sounds like a problem that needs fixing. With the new system, harder content will reward gear faster than easier content. Just because its a slower rate than it is today, doesn't mean that its a bad change. Especially if its currently at a ridiculously short time now.

 

The problem with an RNG system is that there is no guarantee that you will EVER be able to get all of the gear you need. If you play an advanced class that has different gear need for different specs your best odds of getting a piece of gear you need is 50%, which is when you don't have any gear yet. The last piece of gear you need will have less than a 4% chance to drop. The odds are not in our favor. That is a recipe for player frustration.

[Tanitha]

I was saying getting a full set of gear in 2 hours, regardless of how its earned, is a problem. People SHOULD be allowed to do the content they want to earn the rewards they want. I'm saying people who do more challenging content should earn it faster than those doing non-challenging content.

 

You are talking about having a raid ready toon? That is not a problem there. I was talking about having someone who already knows how to play and who wants to do harder content, giving him/her all the loot form the ops, so they can easily move into harder content. It takes a guild and/or a team to do that. And everyone in the team, agrees to do it. So let's say you are a good healer, but low on gear. With the right gear you would be able to move to NiM content, Revan HM for excample. So if I am on the same raid team and have my gear, I will gladly come for an ops to help you get the gear you need so we can move to the more difficult content. gearing a toon in two hours is when teams/guilds do it, not for someone who pugs on fleet.

 

Ops teams rotate loot so everyone can get geared easily and without conflict. If a new member comes in, they will most times do a couple of ops to help that person get the gear s/he needs, so they can move to more difficult content.

[Tessie]

..If with crystal comms, 208 gear you cannot solo heroics, I don't know what to say...

 

Obviously you're a superior player worthy of admiration. But not everyone has the same capacity and motor skills of a person of your experience.

 

Its not just a matter of needing the gear. You can probably do most h2s naked with a healing companion. But the better the gear, the faster the run. Also, once a player has better gear they may be able to do content they previously were unable to accomplish.

 

Do you feel you will be harmed in some way if another player has the same gear as you without having the same skill level or having followed the same progression path to achieve it that you did?

[Tessie]

You are talking about having a raid ready toon? That is not a problem there. I was talking about having someone who already knows how to play and who wants to do harder content, giving him/her all the loot form the ops, so they can easily move into harder content. It takes a guild and/or a team to do that. And everyone in the team, agrees to do it. So let's say you are a good healer, but low on gear. With the right gear you would be able to move to NiM content, Revan HM for excample. So if I am on the same raid team and have my gear, I will gladly come for an ops to help you get the gear you need so we can move to the more difficult content. gearing a toon in two hours is when teams/guilds do it, not for someone who pugs on fleet.

 

Ops teams rotate loot so everyone can get geared easily and without conflict. If a new member comes in, they will most times do a couple of ops to help that person get the gear s/he needs, so they can move to more difficult content.

 

Okay, I still think we're talking about two different things. The only point I'm trying to make is that you should be allowed to earn gear based upon your preferred playstyle and I should be allowed to earn gear based upon my preferred playstyle. If you do harder content, then you should earn it faster than me if I'm doing easier content. We may end up at the same place gear wise, but you should get there sooner, even though we earned the gear differently.

[Tanitha]

Obviously you're a superior player worthy of admiration. But not everyone has the same capacity and motor skills of a person of your experience.

 

Its not just a matter of needing the gear. You can probably do most h2s naked with a healing companion. But the better the gear, the faster the run. Also, once a player has better gear they may be able to do content they previously were unable to accomplish.

 

Do you feel you will be harmed in some way if another player has the same gear as you without having the same skill level or having followed the same progression path to achieve it that you did?

 

My problem is with the RNG. I could open 500 crates and still missing the 6th set bonus piece! Which means effectively I can scrap any HM/NiM content goodbye without that set piece, except for crappy KP/EV HM.

 

I couldn't care less if someone who plays SOLO can have the higher set bonus. heck give it to everyone.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Tanitha

[Tsetso]

Okay, I still think we're talking about two different things. The only point I'm trying to make is that you should be allowed to earn gear based upon your preferred playstyle and I should be allowed to earn gear based upon my preferred playstyle. If you do harder content, then you should earn it faster than me if I'm doing easier content. We may end up at the same place gear wise, but you should get there sooner, even though we earned the gear differently.

 

Nothing wrong with that. However that's not how the new system works. The content that i want and love to play would be locked behind months of grinding content that i hate.

[Rheshalea]

Why are only they entitled to it? If they can earn their items in 2 days from challenging content, and it takes me 2 months of grinding on easier content, why should they care? The elite player was rewarded by getting their gear substantially sooner. The solo player will be rewarded for their grind.

 

How my solo character is geared and how I got it doesn't impact an elitist other than their e-peen.

 

That's not the point at all. The point is, no matter how long it takes, I, as a casual solo scrub, do not NEED that gear. It's nice to get better gear, sure, but in the end, only those who face the hardest challenges actually NEED it. I do well enough with my mid-level gear and a level 15 - 30-something companion. It's not like the solo parts of this game is difficult.

 

...of course, I suppose it's a moot point since it looks like there won't be many, if any at all, OPs runners left in this game soon.

[Tessie]

That's not the point at all. The point is, no matter how long it takes, I, as a casual solo scrub, do not NEED that gear. It's nice to get better gear, sure, but in the end, only those who face the hardest challenges actually NEED it. I do well enough with my mid-level gear and a level 15 - 30-something companion. It's not like the solo parts of this game is difficult.

 

...of course, I suppose it's a moot point since it looks like there won't be many, if any at all, OPs runners left in this game soon.

 

Its not about need, at all. That's like saying if I can do h2s in my pajamas I should. Gear allows me to run content faster, and opens up other content that was previously beyond my abilities. I would rather play over powered than underpowered. Having the content be challenging is of little or no concern to me. So obtaining the best gear in the game only enhances my gaming experience, regardless of whether I need it or not, without harming anyone else.

[LunaticFringer]

Same goal it's always been in every mmorpg really.

To better do the current content old and new (group Uprisings on hard mode or whatever).

 

I'm sure without new Flashpoints and Operations though... it feels like a moot point to regrind gear to plenty of people. S'why I'm hoping in January they actually give people a reason to come back to game that have already left over that part of the game stagnating for almost two years.

 

So, there is always a reason to gear and it isn't any different in any other mmorpg. New xpac, level bump, regear. It isn't always needed... but one could argue it is a needed time-sink to keep players busy till they can get 'x' thing out.

 

In this case, what a lot of us are p.o.ed about is "how" they're handling gearing now.

Edited October 19, 2016 by LunaticFringer

[curulz]

in the current system, you have a team of 8 raiders, all in 220/224 gear. one person leaves the group, you replace them with someone less geared and less experienced in content. Team can run that person thru EV/KP/TFB/SnV once to get them gear they need. Now the new the player is not limited by gear and team can still progress.

 

In the new system, there is no way to make up the gap in gear. Team Member A cannot pass on gear so that New Member gets better. This is what will hurt organized teams. if someone leaves, replacing them could be significantly more difficult. Perhaps the team will be strong enough to carry them thru HM Ops so the new member progresses faster, but it doesn't sound like it will be at the same pace as it is today. So instead of making up the gear gap in a week or two, it could take much longer. This could lead to frustration on the original team members and angst and pressure for the new member to "grind faster" for gear.

[kodrac]

You can get a toon with almost full 220 doing EV/KP HM, at least the set bonus. Put in some MK-2 crafted, and healer or any toon is ready in 2 hours max.

 

You know that's why they're doing this though, to keep you on that treadmill longer.

[Tsetso]

You know that's why they're doing this though, to keep you on that treadmill longer.

 

Yes, because they are incapable and unwilling to create new ops, we need to grind gear to do the old ops.

[Tessie]

Nothing wrong with that. However that's not how the new system works. The content that i want and love to play would be locked behind months of grinding content that i hate.

 

You would be able to run ops repeatedly to earn your gear if you choose. I can run h2s and fps for mine. I would certainly expect you doing ops earns you crates 15 or 25 times faster than me doing solo content.

[Tanitha]

You know that's why they're doing this though, to keep you on that treadmill longer.

 

And open 500 crates and still not getting that 6th piece of set bonus, will keep players. I wonder.

 

Instead of concentrating on giving people NEW content, they are concentrating on making players frustrate further by the lack of content and by the lack of gear. Getting 10 time the same set of bracers when you need that last armor or head for the 6 set is going to be really good on the player base.

 

When's the last time they did an event? When is the last time they gave us a new daily/weekly area? New heroics? New ops? New something?

 

Instead they will make us play THE SAME OLD CONTENT again and again to grind the gear, we MAY NEVER GET because the RNG system screwed a player.

[Tsetso]

You would be able to run ops repeatedly to earn your gear if you choose. I can run h2s and fps for mine. I would certainly expect you doing ops earns you crates 15 or 25 times faster than me doing solo content.

 

Correction. I would be able to grind SM Ops which are boring as hell. I won't be able to do HM without the equivalent of the current 212-216 which would require probably a month to get and to enter NiM with any chance of even killing a boss i'd need at least some gear equivalent to the current 220. And don't forget that applies to my whole raiding group. So no, i won't be able to play ops for at least 4 months

[Tessie]

Correction. I would be able to grind SM Ops which are boring as hell. I won't be able to do HM without the equivalent of the current 212-216 which would require probably a month to get and to enter NiM with any chance of even killing a boss i'd need at least some gear equivalent to the current 220. And don't forget that applies to my whole raiding group. So no, i won't be able to play ops for at least 4 months

 

I just don't understand where you're getting the numbers saying it will take 4 months. What is that based on?

[SeCKSEgai]

Yes, because they are incapable and unwilling to create new ops, we need to grind gear to do the old ops.

 

I'm reminded of the SWG gamble - they had a solid albeit fleeting niche community. In an attempt to grow they changed the entire dynamic to attempt to create a similar experience to WoW only to alienate its primary subscribing player base.

 

Upping the level cap to 70 and adding a new gear grind is bound to alienate a lot of veteran players but they're gambling that a lot of newer players will stick around now that they will eventually be able to access BiS gear despite never touching harder content.

 

I think the DvL event inflated their expectations and are counting on an unrealistic number of fresher players to pursue the new grind.

[Tsetso]

I just don't understand where you're getting the numbers saying it will take 4 months. What is that based on?

 

Not allowed to discuss it on forums.

[Tanitha]

Correction. I would be able to grind SM Ops which are boring as hell. I won't be able to do HM without the equivalent of the current 212-216 which would require probably a month to get and to enter NiM with any chance of even killing a boss i'd need at least some gear equivalent to the current 220. And don't forget that applies to my whole raiding group. So no, i won't be able to play ops for at least 4 months

 

Oh, and don't forget that the new set bonus will not stack up with the old one. So we will have to wait 10 months because you need the 6th set piece. It's always been like that.

 

And yeah, I understand about the 4 months, seen that too.