preferred not welcome?

[Radzkie]

One of my friends quit over this. Never thought I'd see the day.

 

He liked staying preferred(with all the unlocks), buying xpacs, buying (from the CM) a buttload of ops passes then blowing them whenever his group felt like playing/progressing which was maybe once every two or three weeks. Now he can't get rewards from ops this way. Pissed him off, I guess. I'll be the only one left from my guild playing the game now. I wonder if anyone else played like him/will quit over it.

[Jamtas]

I would say that equipping artifact items in general is not the same as end game level gear.

 

When they set up the artifact authorization it wasn't specifically for the end game gear at the time, it was for ALL artifact level items, whether they were level 20, level 40, etc.

 

You can say that all you want, but the fact is there are preferred who bought that in tandem with operation and wz passes as a way to participate in that content and get to use the rewards.

 

Now, that doesn't mean I agree with the FTP/Preferred model. They are allowed to purchase the content through a one month sub and keep access to it even if their subscription lapsed. And much like Nico companion, the HK chapter requiring the sub through all of KOTFE, and upcoming things like Shae Vizla companion - it was the decision that they made and prompted users to spend money.

 

This type of reversal is much like the "slot machine working as intended" statement that led to several spending real money to buy packs to try and win one and others buying them off the cartel market. Much of the anger from the immediate nerf following that statement was over people buying the item and then having its value decimated. Allowing preferred to keep content and buy items and unlocks off the cartel market to allow them to still enjoy the game is being nerfed into the ground after purchases were made.

 

That is the issue.

[sumquy]

this is very disappointing. i was hoping that it was not true and that i was just misreading it somehow. i preordered this game and have maintained my sub up until the end of this month. during that time i acquired 100's of millions in credits and i had hoped to use some of that to buy weekly passes and check in on the game once in a while. maybe they have numbers showing that this is a good business move, but i honestly don't see how. by taking away my ability to dip my toe back in and see how it feels, they have essentially guaranteed that i will uninstall and get that 70 gigs back.

 

leaving swtor was a difficult and painful decision. i honestly don't know if it made it easier or harder, when most of my guild also said that they were leaving. that may sound silly when talking about a video game, but there it is. i stayed through kotfe, hoping that things would get better, but today, i just no longer have any faith. i guess the only thing left to say is goodbye and thanks for all the good times.

 

inb4: no you can't have my stuff, i will give it to somebody i like, not you ******es.

[Kyrrant]

They have free access to all older content pre 5.0 (whether they ever paid for it or not) ... other then specific long running restrictions for F2p/Preferred.

 

They simply have to sub to access KoTET content. That is the only way to pay for 5.0. The studio has apparently moved away from paid expacs.

 

Basically, you can play this game for free, and just be one year behind subs in terms of access to content. Sounds like a good business model to me. If you are patient and don't need the latest content and choose to not pay.. you can play this MMO more, and farther, then most.

 

Actually, that's a terrible business model, for a simple reason:

 

It divides the player base.

 

MMO's work because of those M's: Massively Multiplayer. More people playing means healthier game means more fun means more revenue from the people playing. The F2P model is based on the players that aren't paying being content for the players that do pay.

 

If you divide the player base into two groups that are unable to interact with content, you're diminishing that "Massively" part. Fewer PvP matches for the paying users. Harder for the paying users to find groups for FP's and Ops.

 

It's been a problem for SWTOR from the start of their F2P conversion. By limiting the number of times non-paying users can participate in multiplayer content, they prevent them from being the Content that's the entire point of their existence in the game...

[jojobanutz]

Yes, they closed a bad loophole that Preferreds used to game KoTFE. Good move in my view. AND, as Eric stated, they have access to crafted gear, not to mention all the random drops that will fall in the new expac at level appropriate itemizations. If they want the gear and do not want to pay... let them run heroics followed by missions in the open world.

 

I would argue that it is the loophole that was bad, not the fact that they closed it with KOTET.

 

Sorry.. but I do not support non-subs having free access to the latest expac content, and I never will. It undermines both the sub side of the model and subbed players who actually pay for access and hence fund future expac efforts.

Look, the point you're missing here is that Preferred players have NEVER had Free Access to end game activities. In all cases a Pass (or other unlock) has to be used. Those items come from the Cartel Market. And the Cartel Market requires that SOMEBODY pays real money.

 

Whether the specific Pref that uses a pass/unlock is also the person that spent the money is irrelevant! Bioware receives income regardless of who actually bought the pass.

 

This new system coming with 5.0 not only locks out Prefs from end game, it also locks out ANYONE who wants to spend money on Passes etc in order to to help out Guildies, or to sell off for in-game creds

 

It's a loss for everyone, Prefs, Subs, and Bioware!

[jojobanutz]

Actually, that's a terrible business model, for a simple reason:

 

It divides the player base.

 

MMO's work because of those M's: Massively Multiplayer. More people playing means healthier game means more fun means more revenue from the people playing. The F2P model is based on the players that aren't paying being content for the players that do pay.

 

If you divide the player base into two groups that are unable to interact with content, you're diminishing that "Massively" part. Fewer PvP matches for the paying users. Harder for the paying users to find groups for FP's and Ops.

 

It's been a problem for SWTOR from the start of their F2P conversion. By limiting the number of times non-paying users can participate in multiplayer content, they prevent them from being the Content that's the entire point of their existence in the game...

I couldn't agree more.

 

Well said.

[AlienEyeTX]

this is very disappointing. i was hoping that it was not true and that i was just misreading it somehow. i preordered this game and have maintained my sub up until the end of this month. during that time i acquired 100's of millions in credits and i had hoped to use some of that to buy weekly passes and check in on the game once in a while. maybe they have numbers showing that this is a good business move, but i honestly don't see how. by taking away my ability to dip my toe back in and see how it feels, they have essentially guaranteed that i will uninstall and get that 70 gigs back.

 

leaving swtor was a difficult and painful decision. i honestly don't know if it made it easier or harder, when most of my guild also said that they were leaving. that may sound silly when talking about a video game, but there it is. i stayed through kotfe, hoping that things would get better, but today, i just no longer have any faith. i guess the only thing left to say is goodbye and thanks for all the good times.

 

inb4: no you can't have my stuff, i will give it to somebody i like, not you ******es.

 

Sounds like you already had decided to stop paying. Losing you as preferred is nowhere near as bad as losing you as sub. Which would have happened anyway, apparently.

 

BW does not care about losing people who don't pay... no matter how long they claim to have been playing.

[Jamtas]

Sounds like you already had decided to stop paying. Losing you as preferred is nowhere near as bad as losing you as sub. Which would have happened anyway, apparently.

 

BW does not care about losing people who don't pay... no matter how long they claim to have been playing.

 

I don't really fret the loss of FTP, but preferred still have a place in game and in many guilds.

 

FTP don't get to end game so not like they are helping queues for any of that. For any good FTP brings to the table, IMO the rush of bots, spammers, exploiters more than offset it.

 

But preferred contribute money and bodies to the game.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Jamtas

[Rolodome]

BW does not care about losing people who don't pay... no matter how long they claim to have been playing.

Oh, wow I didn't know you were a representative for BW.

 

BW as a business does care about losing people who don't pay if they care about making profit. Because people who don't pay can one day become people who do pay. And because people who do pay need people to play with and there are only so many who can, and are willing, to pay.

[AlienEyeTX]

I don't really fret the loss of FTP, but preferred still have a place in game and in many guilds.

 

FTP don't get to end game so not like they are helping queues for any of that. For any good FTP brings to the table, IMO the rush of bots, spammers, exploiters more than offset it.

 

But preferred contribute money and bodies to the game.

 

I agree about the bodies, but the money obviously isn't good enough. That's not just my opinion... BW would not make a move like this unless that were the case. Clearly the subs are the ones who contribute the most money, both by the monthly fee and by CC purchases. BW is trying to earn more subs.

 

And, face it, if you spend ANY money in the game each month, $15 is not too much to ask.

[AlienEyeTX]

Oh, wow I didn't know you were a representative for BW.

 

BW as a business does care about losing people who don't pay if they care about making profit. Because people who don't pay can one day become people who do pay. And because people who do pay need people to play with and there are only so many who can, and are willing, to pay.

 

Thanks. If I need to call upon your business accumen in the future, I'll PM you. Why don't you hold your breath until then?

 

[PlasmaJohn]

BW would not make a move like this unless that were the case.

So Austin never makes mistakes. Noted.

 

'scuse me while I clean up the coffee I just sprayed all over my monitor.

Edited October 19, 2016 by PlasmaJohn

[Jamtas]

I agree about the bodies, but the money obviously isn't good enough. That's not just my opinion... BW would not make a move like this unless that were the case. Clearly the subs are the ones who contribute the most money, both by the monthly fee and by CC purchases. BW is trying to earn more subs.

 

And, face it, if you spend ANY money in the game each month, $15 is not too much to ask.

 

Well, if you believe that the created of the FTP/Preferred model saved this game when it was implemented, then this is not a move in the right direction. The preferred have spent money on the game and through CM many continue to do so. They pvp and do operations. Losing them means less people in queues. Also it means losing any money they put into the game.

If the game didn't need them, we never would have needed the FTP model to begin with.

[AlienEyeTX]

So Austin never makes mistakes. Noted.

 

'scuse me while I clean up the coffee I just sprayed all over my monitor.

 

Whoa... hold up there, cowboy! I never stated anything remotely resembling that remark. Practically all they make are mistakes. But they have data that they use to make their ill-informed decisions. Remember, people don't lie, but numbers do... when people don't understand how to read them.

[AlienEyeTX]

Well, if you believe that the created of the FTP/Preferred model saved this game when it was implemented, then this is not a move in the right direction. The preferred have spent money on the game and through CM many continue to do so. They pvp and do operations. Losing them means less people in queues. Also it means losing any money they put into the game.

If the game didn't need them, we never would have needed the FTP model to begin with.

 

I'm not saying that they don't have their place. They are absolutely a valued part of this product community. However, there must not be as many doing end-game content as some people here seem to think. I would wager that most Prefs are VERY casual players who are focused on the story, if anything. BW likely knows that there are few end-game Prefs and has an estimate of how many will convert to Subs. That's where they want the money. For those who don't play at the highest level, this really doesn't affect them too much.

[Nempo]

Your standard F2P model doesn't even let people halfway through a game, and everyone is crying about the fact that finally TOR is falling more into line with it.

Subs get endgame, everyone else falls short. That is how you run a game and get people to stop playing for free. Prefered never gave nearly as much as you all are trying to defend and claim. The largest CM sales come from Subs, the routine money comes from Subs, the entire point of being prefered is to spend less than the cost of a sub every month, thus you aren't worth the same AS a sub. Any prefered that is spending more than a sub every single month is a fool that should just be subbed anyway.

To make money they need subs, to ensure you have subs you limit access to things (endgame especially) to ONLY subs. Find me a triple A MMO that allows free to play to participate fully in endgame; if you buy time using in game money, you are still subscribing and are not free to play as someone else still had to buy that time and sell it to you thus someone else is simply subbing for you. I won't hold my breath, they always make sure they get their money somehow. People talka bout TOR as if it is dying yet Aion, ArcheAge, and similar games have a small fraction of player base compared to TOR and are considered stable. The amusement is all encompasing in how people consider this game dying when I haven't struggled to find anything here and I am NOT on Harbringer.

[Andryah]

If the game didn't need them, we never would have needed the FTP model to begin with.

 

The purpose is two fold:

 

1) competition in the market place... which is very real in terms of how many MMOs now have flex access models, and the fact that now players have come to expect it.

 

2) non-subs get wide access to sub-cap content as an incentive to actually sub. We continuously see posts from players in the forum that were non-sub who on playing for a week or two decided they like the game enough to sub.

 

Working as intended.. in spite of the fact that some disgruntled veterans are wishing they could have unlimited access without a sub.

 

And this would probably be as good a time as any to inject that torstatus shows populations trending upward since October 7th. Even Begeren Colony (the smallest of the old non-PvP servers in NA) is back above 1.00 on torstatus. Add to that the number of returning player question threads recently... and it is safe to assume people are interested enough in the expac to come back and sub ahead of the expac release.

Edited October 19, 2016 by Andryah

[CorellianWannabe]

The purpose is two fold:

 

1) competition in the market place... which is very real in terms of how many MMOs now have flex access models, and the fact that now players have come to expect it.

 

2) non-subs get wide access to sub-cap content as an incentive to actually sub. We continuously see posts from players in the forum that were non-sub who on playing for a week or two decided they like the game enough to sub.

 

Working as intended.. in spite of the fact that some disgruntled veterans are wishing they could have unlimited access without a sub.

 

And this would probably be as good a time as any to inject that torstatus shows populations trending upward since October 7th. Even Begeren Colony (the smallest of the old non-PvP servers in NA) is back above 1.00 on torstatus. Add to that the number of returning player question threads recently... and it is safe to assume people are interested enough in the expac to come back and sub ahead of the expac release.

 

And how many will still be interested when they run into the RNG fiasco?

[AlienEyeTX]

And how many will still be interested when they run into the RNG fiasco?

 

Zero... because they cannot participate! ZING!

[sumquy]

Well, if you believe that the created of the FTP/Preferred model saved this game when it was implemented, then this is not a move in the right direction. The preferred have spent money on the game and through CM many continue to do so. They pvp and do operations. Losing them means less people in queues. Also it means losing any money they put into the game.

If the game didn't need them, we never would have needed the FTP model to begin with.

 

this was mostly my thought on it as well. i guess the biggest part that i don't understand is where they are going with this. driving away the best players in the game means nobody to create guides and videos and tutorials. casual players do not create these. casual players leave when they get frustrated because they can't find those things. we have already started seeing it. when 3.0 dropped, within days there were guides up for every advanced class and spec. today, for about a third of the specs, you are lucky if you can find a cross faction version that is relatively current and hopefully you can translate into imp/pub speak. there used to be current videos of every nim fight from every perspective, today...not so much.

 

personally, i don't have any interest in single player story. i only have interest in progression raiding and pvp. my raid group has already killed all the bosses, and if there aren't going to be new ones...there doesn't seem to be anything left to do there. i was willing to go back and kill the same old bosses for one expansion, but not two. afa pvp, bw refusal to address pvp balance was frustrating, but not, by itself a deal breaker. the combination of the two is what has driven me out.

 

now i am just repeating myself, but i truly am disappointed that, with the new system, there is no reason to even stay connected. even if at some point a year from now, bw announces that new ops are coming, i have to decide whether to go back to a game i haven't looked at in over a year, and, oh yeah, it's now up to 90 gig downloads so see you in a week? i understand the chauvinism that leads subscribers to say that if you are not paying then ****. i just don't see how that leads to a healthy game.

[Jamtas]

The purpose is two fold:

 

1) competition in the market place... which is very real in terms of how many MMOs now have flex access models, and the fact that now players have come to expect it.

 

2) non-subs get wide access to sub-cap content as an incentive to actually sub. We continuously see posts from players in the forum that were non-sub who on playing for a week or two decided they like the game enough to sub.

 

Working as intended.. in spite of the fact that some disgruntled veterans are wishing they could have unlimited access without a sub.

 

And this would probably be as good a time as any to inject that torstatus shows populations trending upward since October 7th. Even Begeren Colony (the smallest of the old non-PvP servers in NA) is back above 1.00 on torstatus. Add to that the number of returning player question threads recently... and it is safe to assume people are interested enough in the expac to come back and sub ahead of the expac release.

 

You are describing a spike around release of an expansion. We'll see another spike around rogue 1 as well. It would be a mistake to treat either spike as indicator of success. have to see what it looks like when the spike goes away and then what the normalization looks like. Better or worse than prior?

[Rolodome]

Thanks. If I need to call upon your business accumen in the future, I'll PM you. Why don't you hold your breath until then?

 

Ok, BW rep. If I need your input on how BW functions in the future, I'll PM you. You can hold your breath until then as well.

[Tesuji_Meijin]

One aspect of this that I haven't seen mentioned in the thread is that SWTOR differs from most F2P MMOs in one hugely important respect: they are not trying to make money from whales.

 

Most F2P MMOs are willing to let literally 90% of their customers play for free or for a small amount, because of the 10% (or even less) that are paying enormous amounts of money. A single whale will spend thousands of dollars per year, sometimes tens of thousands.

 

I saw this in Blade & Soul. The few people in my guild that had the best end-game gear had all spent thousands on the game, though some of them were too embarrassed to admit it (it wasn't hard to figure out if you were on all the time and just paid attention to when/how they acquired stuff). I myself got sucked into spending more money than I ever would have believed possible, before deciding that I needed to quit playing. (Fortunately I could afford it, but it left a really bad taste in my mouth.)

 

Bioware has completely stayed away from this, which IMHO is the ethical business decision. But it does mean that they can't afford to have anywhere close to the same ration of free:subscribers as many other games you might be tempted to compare it to.

 

I suspect that the Galactic Command change is going to be a poor business decision. I'm guessing that a lot of players will leave, and that has a big, immediate negative impact on the subscribers (in fact, that's the main reason you have a F2P model in the first place-- sure, you hope they some day subscribe, but mainly you're just making sure there are friends and strangers online for the subscribers to play with).

 

I think it might be worthwhile to suggest that Bioware increase the credit cap for preferred to something like 750k, making it much more reasonable to buy materials to craft end game gear. Along with that, up the escrow unlock for something like 3 million, instead of 650k, making it possible to buy mods directly. (Those numbers are pulled out of nowhere, they're just examples.) This would give preferred players a real incentive to run end game content, because they can sell the mounts, decorations, rare materials, etc., and buy end game gear with it. In theory, this would allow them to get everything except for set bonuses-- which would allow them to run all end game content, except super competitive PvP and the very latest NM ops. That still wouldn't satisfy all preferred players, but it would certainly satisfy a heck of a lot more than without the increases.

[AlienEyeTX]

I think it might be worthwhile to suggest that Bioware increase the credit cap for preferred to something like 750k, making it much more reasonable to buy materials to craft end game gear. Along with that, up the escrow unlock for something like 3 million, instead of 650k, making it possible to buy mods directly. (Those numbers are pulled out of nowhere, they're just examples.) This would give preferred players a real incentive to run end game content, because they can sell the mounts, decorations, rare materials, etc., and buy end game gear with it. In theory, this would allow them to get everything except for set bonuses-- which would allow them to run all end game content, except super competitive PvP and the very latest NM ops. That still wouldn't satisfy all preferred players, but it would certainly satisfy a heck of a lot more than without the increases.

 

Given the evolution of the economy over the last year or two, this doesn't seem unreasonable. Especially escrow. If people are willing to pay for it, let them purchase the ability to have credits. I would cap credits for Prefs at 1mil, with escrow being available up to a total of 5mil. It won't get people all of the most desirable things, but it would be a good boost. It would allow them to get all except the very best end-game gear, too. Which, frankly, is more than they deserve.

[Rolodome]

I think it might be worthwhile to suggest that Bioware increase the credit cap for preferred to something like 750k, making it much more reasonable to buy materials to craft end game gear. Along with that, up the escrow unlock for something like 3 million, instead of 650k, making it possible to buy mods directly. (Those numbers are pulled out of nowhere, they're just examples.) This would give preferred players a real incentive to run end game content, because they can sell the mounts, decorations, rare materials, etc., and buy end game gear with it. In theory, this would allow them to get everything except for set bonuses-- which would allow them to run all end game content, except super competitive PvP and the very latest NM ops. That still wouldn't satisfy all preferred players, but it would certainly satisfy a heck of a lot more than without the increases.

I'm of the opinion that they should just do away with the credit cap for preferred, but judging by this thing about subs only, they have no intention of making the model more friendly for F2P or preferred in any way, shape, or form. Seems it's "sub or get the **** out," and it's probably coming straight from the publisher's mouth.