99.99% > .01% / This Game Rocks!

[coldcite]

IMO the "but X didn't have Y at release!" excuse is piss-poor at best, MUDs didn't have any graphics either, just saying.

 

Getting kinda tired of seeing it thrown around in discussions.

[Maltuvion]

For reinvented I assume you mean totally and utterly dumbed down.

 

Good luck with it though. Pandas are fun.

 

You're mistaken; I have no intention to jump on the WoW-wagon again. My point about talent trees was that I - and I, though that might be a fault, have difficulties imagine many people disagreeing - think talent trees incorporating stuff like Master Shapeshifter/Heart of the Wild rather than sw:tor's talents often incorporating said "Increase X ability by Y% * Z". The whole idea about less mandatory talents but more talents catering to playstyles and potentially adding diversity is laudable. MoP might not execute it perfectly - I won't know in practice as I have no interest in playing it - but as I said, it's laudable to try. I trust any person with more than double-digit IQ won't be blinded by loathing for WoW in this assessment.

 

Regarding whether or not "people expect WoW 2.0" - How utterly dimwitted can you possibly be? Really, I am all for a cordial discussion, but saying that considering the context of some of the complaints about this game is ludicrous. The most avid fans of this game refers to WoW because whether you like it or not, WoW did some things indisputably right. For instance ability/animation delay. I guess it's easier to take them one by one....

 

Animation/Ability delay: Currently there's a 100+ pages thread running with over 100.000 unique views. It's been documented and it is indisputably an issue. Does it break the game right now? No, not on a massive scale. It will, however, indisputably make truly competitive PvP impossible and will pose a serious hindrance to truly high-end PvE the way WoW has. Are such things truly needed? No, they aren't. In fact, not at all! ... If not for the fact that Bioware models their Operations after WoW's own raiding model. If not for the fact Bioware has stated they'll pursue arena-style PvP resembling WoW's.

 

All the comparisons with WoW are just as much Bioware's fault as the playerbase's. They made that inexplicably clear when they modelled character progressions exactly like WoW's, and promised raids and arena-style PvP.

 

counter-intuitive auction house: Again, WoW's is simply just superior. Again, I reiterate, I am not a fan of WoW, nor do I ever intend to return. However, it simply functions a whole lot better. More flexible search system, better overview, more accessible.

 

(Currently) no mods: If there is one thing that WoW institutionalized amongst the MMO crowd, it is modding and the ability to customize the entire gaming experience down to every last detail. No, we don't need damage meters per se. No, we don't need threatmeters. No, we don't necessarily need anything. However, a vast number of players, increasing exponentionally with skill-level, enjoyed the flexibility mods gave. It is enriching the experience if done right, both functionally and aesthetically. Most importantly, it allows the game to cater to a wider audience. If you do not like mods, do not use them. Nobody forces you.

 

Me, I just miss making a minimalistic yet fully functional UI that serves my needs. I can get by easily with the default UI, but given a day or two, I could make a better UI. And, dare I say, universally better UI than what we currently have.

 

_______________________

 

People complain for various reasons. Some legitimate, some not. The three points I've noted above is the complaints I most frequently see, and those that resonate best with my own sentiments about the game. This does not mean that I don't love the game. However, it does mean that people will inevitably compare it to WoW and find it lacking in those respects. And especially the 1st and arguably 3rd point are not just "minor issues". The first has the potential to actually break the game on any competitive level. While that might be a majority, you'd have to be utterly dimwitted not to realize that competitive PvE/PvP is a major part - if not the major part - of what keeps MMO's going. As WoW's a primary example of.

 

Is it wrong to compare SW:TOR with WoW? No. The games share alot of similarities and SW:TOR has incorporated many aspects that has been institutionalized in the MMO-genre with WoW. Drawing comparisons is only natural and not negative per se. If Bioware wanted people to stop comparing they could, just a thought, differentiated their game further.

[Chikai]

AH Fail.

Not fail.

 

Store filters Fail.

Boohoo!

 

No GUI options Fail.

There are options!

 

Can't save changes for all characters Fail.

Boohoo

 

1 hour sell back to stores? No. Fail.

Isn't it you who fails clicking wrong stuff here? Don't blame the game!

 

Masterpiece? NO.

But it is!

[Oohm]

People complain on forums not because they just want to bash on the game it's because they want the game to be better by saying where it needs to be improved upon and getting other people's opinions on the subject. Not to mention forums are almost the only direct outlet for the community to outreach to the developers.

 

So before you complain about people's complaining remember if no one pointed out the games faults then the game would never change for the better. Even if it's the same faults people points out; the more people out-crying on one fault the more likely Bioware will actually fix it. Majority rules.

[Enako]

As the .01% complain and spread their doom and gloom, the 99.99% of us are busy enjoying this masterpiece of an MMO.

 

very well said.

 

this will set the trend for mmos to come.

 

grand epic story arcs with moral choices, paths and voice acting will be a huge bar for many mmos to overcome in the coming years.

[Enako]

People complain on forums not because they just want to bash on the game it's because they want the game to be better by saying where it needs to be improved upon

 

well actually i see many hardcore achievement/progression types running out of content by rushing through by ignoring content and then coming to complain about how they want what wow has actually removed from the game to be incorporated into this game.

 

thats not 'improvement', considering wow has been losing 200 k subscribers every month in the last quarter.

[Dean_Corso]

I agree that the trolls/haters just need to play and have fun. Fantastic game. No where near the issues most all MMOs have when they launch.

[stuw]

This game is good. Its ruining my family.

[Oohm]

well actually i see many hardcore achievement/progression types running out of content by rushing through by ignoring content and then coming to complain about how they want what wow has actually removed from the game to be incorporated into this game.

 

thats not 'improvement', considering wow has been losing 200 k subscribers every month in the last quarter.

 

I disagree the large majority of complaints I see on forums are things people want added to the game or fixed. Some examples would be: better ui, chat bubbles, server forums, smoother combat system, bug fixes, feeling of "emptiness" on servers, pvp brackets, and lfd tools.

 

I'm not saying all of those would fix the game but there ideas to which some people think would make the game better and they're worth discussing.

 

And if they wanted things that wow took out and wow is now losing subs from taking those things out wouldn't you technically consider that "improvement" haha

[Escherichia]

Actually there was a study done.

 

Typically ...

 

Only 10% of the entire game population ever visits the forums.

Only 1% of the entire game population ever makes a post on the forums.

 

It was found that the forum posters who complained the most were typically the users who put the most into the video game (both the most time played and for item shop games had spent the most money)

 

It was found that the forum posters who complained the most were the most unlikely to quit, and in the event that they did quit they almost always started playing again soon after.

 

Most (over 95%) of the users who quit playing the game never visited the forums once.

 

The general finding of the study was that the player base who frequents the forum are fundamentally more engaged with the game and that despite whatever complaints they may lodge (justified or not) they were extremely unlikely to quit the game, especially those who post at all.

 

That isn't to say your complaints are not valid, in fact a survey done at the same time found that many of the 'hot issues' brought up by the forum crowd were some of the top reasons people would cancel subscriptions or not log in for over 30 days. The error in that statistic is it relies on people who care enough to even complete a small survey.

[stuw]

Actually there was a study done.

 

Typically ...

 

Only 10% of the entire game population ever visits the forums.

Only 1% of the entire game population ever makes a post on the forums.

 

It was found that the forum posters who complained the most were typically the users who put the most into the video game (both the most time played and for item shop games had spent the most money)

 

It was found that the forum posters who complained the most were the most unlikely to quit, and in the event that they did quit they almost always started playing again soon after.

 

Most (over 95%) of the users who quit playing the game never visited the forums once.

 

The general finding of the study was that the player base who frequents the forum are fundamentally more engaged with the game and that despite whatever complaints they may lodge (justified or not) they were extremely unlikely to quit the game, especially those who post at all.

 

That isn't to say your complaints are not valid, in fact a survey done at the same time found that many of the 'hot issues' brought up by the forum crowd were some of the top reasons people would cancel subscriptions or not log in for over 30 days. The error in that statistic is it relies on people who care enough to even complete a small survey.

 

 

Nice. I'd love to see sources. Not denying it exists, but I'd like to link that at the end of every post I make in response to an unreasonable whining player.

[Escherichia]

It should be accessible by a Google search, but I'll try to find the specific study and results for you with a link.

 

It makes sense too. You only get upset with something if you actually care, otherwise you're completely indifferent to the entire situation and make no remarks.

 

Edit: It also shows you shouldn't hate on whiners. If they didn't care they wouldn't waste their time posting. Although their attempts may be misguided or ineffective their actions speak more towards how much they desire for this game to be.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Escherichia

[NasherUK]

If BW are smart them won't take any notice of the crap on the forums. Unless it's a major issue. e.g. server down or a gamebreaking bug.

 

Listening to the whiners on the forum (and probably by email/in-game support) is why Blizzard messed up wow. Now the minority like the game while the rest are leaving for TOR

Edited December 28, 2011 by NasherUK

[Stormag]

As the .01% complain and spread their doom and gloom, the 99.99% of us are busy enjoying this masterpiece of a single player game.

 

fix'd

Edited December 28, 2011 by Stormag

[AlpsStranger]

As the .01% complain and spread their doom and gloom, the 99.99% of us are busy enjoying this masterpiece of an MMO.

 

Proof?

[Gurza]

I love the game but if it continues to screw over EU players I wont be resubing

[Escherichia]

If BW are smart them won't take any notice of the crap on the forums. Unless it's a major issue. e.g. server down or a gamebreaking bug.

 

Listening to the whiners on the forum is why Blizzard messed up wow. Now the minority like the game while the rest are leaving for TOR

 

 

 

Blizzard did not mess up WoW, they simply adjusted it to appeal to the greatest common denominator. It may not be your type of game any more, but now it reaches a larger player base which brings them increased income.

 

WoW is the budlight of MMORPGS now.

[NasherUK]

Blizzard did not mess up WoW, they simply adjusted it to appeal to the greatest common denominator. It may not be your type of game any more, but now it reaches a larger player base which brings them increased income.

 

WoW is the budlight of MMORPGS now.

 

But wow is loosing about 800k players per quarter and over 2 million since cataclysm launch. Clearly the changes they made over the last couple of years are not liked by most people. The next expansion has already scared off most of the long-time players as well :/

Edited December 28, 2011 by NasherUK

[Mashy]

But wow is loosing about 800k players per quarter and over 2 million since cataclysm launch. Clearly the changes they made over the last couple of years are not liked by most people. The next expansion has already scared off most of the long-time players as well :/

 

True but I also think that people are just over the game in general. 7 years of same old same old and now fat kungfu pandas..... Just rename it World of Teletubbies and be done with it lol!

[Enako]

Actually there was a study done.

 

Typically ...

 

Only 10% of the entire game population ever visits the forums.

Only 1% of the entire game population ever makes a post on the forums.

 

It was found that the forum posters who complained the most were typically the users who put the most into the video game (both the most time played and for item shop games had spent the most money)

 

quite. and actually :

 

Nice. I'd love to see sources. Not denying it exists, but I'd like to link that at the end of every post I make in response to an unreasonable whining player.

 

that is not something particular to games/mmos/forums, and it does not actually need particular studies.

 

for, this 1 in 1000 rule is something that has existed since dawn of internet in everything - especially in advertising/sales/registrations. the thumb rule goes generally like this :

 

1 in 1000 that end up in a page take action regarding that page. (register, browse for a long duration etc).

 

and 1 out of that 1000 that end up in a page may or may not repeat it.

 

it goes like that.

 

so, if you have a page that shows advertisements, you can expect 1 out of 1000 visitors to actually click on that ad intentionally. the biggest clickthroughs that are realistic were 5 in 1000 when adsense/adwords was at its peak.

 

also, 1 out of every that 1000 real visitors can be expected to actually purchase something/take action in the page they visit. that may depend on the targetedness and niche rating of the advertised website though.

 

in short its no different - 5% has seen endgame content according to blizzard in first 2 iterations of wow. that means 5% out of 18 million subscribers has seen them.

 

you can deduce the rest - talking in forums, this that, all follow the same number.

 

hence the vocal hardcore gamer minority that talks WAY too much compared to their 5% or so number.

[Torn]

as the .01% complain and spread their doom and gloom, the 99.99% of us are busy enjoying this masterpiece of an mmo.

 

occupy swtor!!!!

[unclekaula]

Could not agree more.

 

UI fail? I could care less, I like it and it has no effect on my gameplay whatsoever.

 

AH fail? Works for me. May need some tweaking with search functions but otherwise it's does what it's required.

 

Space combat wah wah? It's a minigame, get over it.

 

I could go on, but I'll just say this.

 

The end of January cannot come fast enough.

 

Pretty much how I feel, my good sir. The only flaws that have bothered me were the bugged resource nodes... but you know what? Instead of complaining about it or other minor problems I moved the **** on and enjoy the game.

[Suspirium]

As the .01% complain and spread their doom and gloom, the 99.99% of us are busy enjoying this masterpiece of an MMO.

 

nope, the game has severe issues signaled from beta, issues that obviously werent solved. you go play it.

[Enako]

But wow is loosing about 800k players per quarter and over 2 million since cataclysm launch. Clearly the changes they made over the last couple of years are not liked by most people. The next expansion has already scared off most of the long-time players as well :/

 

its not the changes they made in the last couple of years - its the changes they made in cataclysm. especially harder endgame content :

 

http://venturebeat.com/2011/05/11/warcraft-quit-600k-subscribers/

 

even hardcore gamers are quitting at the wake of increased hassles that blizzard has incorporated.

[mutharex]

lots of people came to SW:TOR and expected it to be WOW2, they found it isnt' and they whine....typical..

 

SW:ToR it isn't the Perfect game (and WoW got far far away from that also) but it has the potential to be a masterpiece game.

 

and do not say that F2P is bad... cause soon you will see WoW going to that road also.Microtransactions can net you more $$$ than a sub (if done right)

 

F2P is not a BAD thing but i wouldnt' care less atm.

 

when ppl stop waiting WoW2 then we will see more Great MMOs but right now the mindless crowd is overwhelming.

 

ps. bugs , bad netcoding etc etc all will get fixed in ahead of time, you cant' judge BW for some bugs or the bad netcoding cause you do not know what is behind it.

 

ps1. i am SURE that 90% of the ppls learned about netcoding in the forums and they whine now hahahaha

 

QFT

 

I agree that criticism is always welcome IF it's constructive and realistic. TOR isn't neither WoW2 nor SWG2, they never said it was going to be, but people bought the game anyway and found out it's different from what they desired so now they are angry and venting in the forum. or asking to transform this game in another.

 

one thing is saying "This game should have stuff from game x and y because I feel that it's a necessary feature in a modern MMO", another saying "This game fails because cmon it's 2011 and all this stuff should be in at launch, together with 7 years worth of end game content and if you don't fix it by tomorrow I QUIT!"

 

 

90% of the whines on the forum are like the latter...