Extortion of returning players

[ikinai]

Versus punishing them with a monetary penalty and driving them away again you mean? Uh...hell yes lol. Bioware's job is to RETAIN subscribers...not drive them away...

 

Well, they could drive me away, or more to the point let me drive away, in an Enzo, or maybe a Martini badged 918. I'd accept a Gallardo or a 1977 930 turbo whale tail.

[TUXs]

Well, they could drive me away, or more to the point let me drive away, in an Enzo, or maybe a Martini badged 918. I'd accept a Gallardo or a 1977 930 turbo whale tail.

All exceptional choices!!!

[Exly]

Believe it or not, there are actually people that want to play on low population servers. Closing the server because someone else couldn't be bothered to do some research seems like a knee jerk reaction at best. Secondly, free transfers that are only free if you're on server X are just a recipe for even more complaints on the forums. If you want to see someone complain in record fashion, give someone else something they don't have.

Bioware obviously has access to all the data and is taking action as the situation warrants. Clearly they don't see a need to close or merge servers at this time.

 

The only thing that doing research might have done is convinced the op to decide not to resub to the game.

 

It wouldn't have made it so they could participate in group content on the server that they had characters on already.

 

So then we would have had one less person choosing to sub to the game, and they would not have reported on the problem of having to choose between starting over on a new server, or paying to have their characters transferred in order to play the content that they returned for.

 

How is that better?

 

Would any amount of research on the op's part have done anything to fix the problem?

 

Why shouldn't it be EA's responsibility to fix this problem?

 

Is the game better off because returning players must reroll characters, or to pay for character transfers in order to participate in content that EA advertises as if it is available to all players subbing to the game?

 

Again you say that the problem was caused by a lack of research, but the problem predated promotion that the op responded to, and so I don't get why you continue to try and shift blame for the problem to the op instead of realizing that it is EA's lack of action that is it's root cause.

 

So yes, the op would have saved $15,

[Bruticis]

The only thing that doing research might have done is convinced the op to decide not to resub to the game.

 

It wouldn't have made it so they could participate in group content on the server that they had characters on already.

 

So then we would have had one less person choosing to sub to the game, and they would not have reported on the problem of having to choose between starting over on a new server, or paying to have their characters transferred in order to play the content that they returned for.

 

How is that better?

 

Would any amount of research on the op's part have done anything to fix the problem?

 

Why shouldn't it be EA's responsibility to fix this problem?

 

Is the game better off because returning players must reroll characters, or to pay for character transfers in order to participate in content that EA advertises as if it is available to all players subbing to the game?

 

Again you say that the problem was caused by a lack of research, but the problem predated promotion that the op responded to, and so I don't get why you continue to try and shift blame for the problem to the op instead of realizing that it is EA's lack of action that is it's root cause.

 

So yes, the op would have saved $15,

 

How exactly is it EA's fault which server someone picks? The server they picked is just as functional as any other server. When I'm going to play an MMO, the first thing I do is check the games server forums so I can see what type of player base is on each server and decide which one to join.

Which sever are the RPers on? Which server is more toxic? Which server is noob friendly? Which server are the French playing on, because no one likes those guys (DISCLAIMER**THE FRENCH THING IS A JOKE**END DISCLAIMER)?

I've been playing MMOs since the day I logged into the Ultima Online closed beta and not one time have I ever NOT researched which server I should join.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Bruticis

[ikinai]

How exactly is it EA's fault which server someone picks? The server they picked is just as functional as any other server. When I'm going to play an MMO, the first thing I do is check the games server forums so I can see what type of player base is on each server and decide which one to join.

Which sever are the RPers on? Which server is more toxic? Which server is noob friendly? Which server are the French playing on, because no one likes those guys (DISCLAIMER**THE FRENCH THING IS A JOKE**END DISCLAIMER)?

I've been playing MMOs since the day I logged into the Ultima Online closed beta and not one time have I ever NOT researched which server I should join.

 

Indeed, I recently tried out LotRO, I know I know, late to the party and all, I went to the forums and poked around and asked a few SWtOR denizens here that I know plays the game about the severs there, as well as people I know in real life who played. That's what I did. As for my old WoW accounts on a server I know to be dead, well mostly, meh, not a central character I play, so I went to another server and started a character there to see what was what. Of course went back to my other other main server, a girls prerogative. The nice thing about battlenet is it doesn't matter what game/server I am playing, I can still talk to my friends in SC, WoW, Diablo.

[XorrOn]

The only thing that doing research might have done is convinced the op to decide not to resub to the game.

 

It wouldn't have made it so they could participate in group content on the server that they had characters on already.

 

So then we would have had one less person choosing to sub to the game, and they would not have reported on the problem of having to choose between starting over on a new server, or paying to have their characters transferred in order to play the content that they returned for.

 

How is that better?

 

Would any amount of research on the op's part have done anything to fix the problem?

 

Why shouldn't it be EA's responsibility to fix this problem?

 

Is the game better off because returning players must reroll characters, or to pay for character transfers in order to participate in content that EA advertises as if it is available to all players subbing to the game?

 

Again you say that the problem was caused by a lack of research, but the problem predated promotion that the op responded to, and so I don't get why you continue to try and shift blame for the problem to the op instead of realizing that it is EA's lack of action that is it's root cause.

 

So yes, the op would have saved $15,

 

As a returning player (I just came back a few weeks back) it would have been nice to have at least one free character transfer as the server they chose at launch could be totally dead now. That being said, I think just about every other MMORPG that's subscription based charges for the character transfers. Why would this one be any different?

[TUXs]

How exactly is it EA's fault which server someone picks? The server they picked is just as functional as any other server. When I'm going to play an MMO, the first thing I do is check the games server forums so I can see what type of player base is on each server and decide which one to join.

Which sever are the RPers on? Which server is more toxic? Which server is noob friendly? Which server are the French playing on, because no one likes those guys (DISCLAIMER**THE FRENCH THING IS A JOKE**END DISCLAIMER)?

I've been playing MMOs since the day I logged into the Ultima Online closed beta and not one time have I ever NOT researched which server I should join.

It's not Bioware's fault that someone picked the wrong server, but it's also not that players fault either...it was a heads or tails type moment, nothing more.

 

Moving toons is an automated process that doesn't involve some Bioware Dev recreating, pixel by pixel, a character being transferred...it's not a $10 per TOON expense. Moving just 5 toons would be equivalent to a newer AAA title...it's just not a good investment. At 90cc per toon, I was able to justify it as being a mild expense above the sub fee...at 1000cc, I can't...it's just too much to ask someone to pay on top of what they're already paying.

 

Let me just point out that by simply being here on the forums, we're far from the "average" player...we're the minority. We are the type who DO investigate server size, server type, etc...but we're not the norm. We're special

[TUXs]

As a returning player (I just came back a few weeks back) it would have been nice to have at least one free character transfer as the server they chose at launch could be totally dead now. That being said, I think just about every other MMORPG that's subscription based charges for the character transfers. Why would this one be any different?

If you're trying to say W0W, without saying W0W, you're ignoring the fact that W0W has cross realm play for the lower population realms (whatever the hell a realm is). And I don't know for sure, but has any other MMO pushed alts nearly as hard as Bioware has? Bioware has EIGHT class stories for leveling...does any other MMO have even 4? Alts are a HUGE part of "content" in this game.

Edited October 5, 2016 by TUXs

[Jadescythe]

It's not Bioware's fault that someone picked the wrong server, but it's also not that players fault either...it was a heads or tails type moment, nothing more.

 

Moving toons is an automated process that doesn't involve some Bioware Dev recreating, pixel by pixel, a character being transferred...it's not a $10 per TOON expense. Moving just 5 toons would be equivalent to a newer AAA title...it's just not a good investment. At 90cc per toon, I was able to justify it as being a mild expense above the sub fee...at 1000cc, I can't...it's just too much to ask someone to pay on top of what they're already paying.

 

Let me just point out that by simply being here on the forums, we're far from the "average" player...we're the minority. We are the type who DO investigate server size, server type, etc...but we're not the norm. We're special

 

Still fighting the good fight Tux? At this point, if people don't understand that BW has more to gain by allowing returning players to move to a populated server than the $10 they get for a transfer, I don't think they ever will. If I pay $15 to sub for a month when I come back, realize I have to spend money to transfer characters or start from scratch, then they most likely won't see my second $15 contribution. It's not a blame thing, it's a cost/benefit thing and unfortunately EA isn't going to let BW admit they have some extremely low pop servers that are a problem for new/returning players no matter how many existing players love the solitude.

[Bruticis]

Still fighting the good fight Tux? At this point, if people don't understand that BW has more to gain by allowing returning players to move to a populated server than the $10 they get for a transfer, I don't think they ever will. If I pay $15 to sub for a month when I come back, realize I have to spend money to transfer characters or start from scratch, then they most likely won't see my second $15 contribution. It's not a blame thing, it's a cost/benefit thing and unfortunately EA isn't going to let BW admit they have some extremely low pop servers that are a problem for new/returning players no matter how many existing players love the solitude.

 

Don't you think Bioware has access to data they could review that would correlate what you're saying and take action? Surely they have extensive reports that details all kinds of fascinating things. I can only assume that a pretty big item would be new subs and if they cancel within 30 days (or similar retention metric).

Obviously if this was a major issue and they were bleeding 1st time subscribers, I'd expect they'd have made a change by now. Which means IMO that either it doesn't have much of an impact or the cost to fix it outweighs benefit gained.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Bruticis

[Khevar]

... (whatever the hell a realm is) ...

I'm totally guessing here, but it might be "in the same network", as in, servers close enough together that they can share the same switches?

[Toraak]

It's not Bioware's fault that someone picked the wrong server, but it's also not that players fault either...it was a heads or tails type moment, nothing more.

 

Moving toons is an automated process that doesn't involve some Bioware Dev recreating, pixel by pixel, a character being transferred...it's not a $10 per TOON expense. Moving just 5 toons would be equivalent to a newer AAA title...it's just not a good investment. At 90cc per toon, I was able to justify it as being a mild expense above the sub fee...at 1000cc, I can't...it's just too much to ask someone to pay on top of what they're already paying.

 

Let me just point out that by simply being here on the forums, we're far from the "average" player...we're the minority. We are the type who DO investigate server size, server type, etc...but we're not the norm. We're special

 

So $10 is to much? look at most other MMO's. server transfers are $25. $10 isn't much and if it helps make it so you enjoy the game, it's worth skipping McDonalds 1 time this month.

[Jadescythe]

Don't you think Bioware has access to data they could review that would correlate what you're saying and take action? Surely they have extensive reports that details all kinds of fascinating things. I can only assume that a pretty big item would be new subs and if they cancel within 30 days (or similar retention metric).

Obviously if this was a major issue and they were bleeding 1st time subscribers, I'd expect they'd have made a change by now. Which means IMO that either it doesn't have much of an impact or the cost to fix it outweighs benefit gained.

 

I have no idea how this comment on new players relates in any way to my comment on returning players.

 

But on that subject, the same situation will occur, just not in 30 days. It will be a few months in for many players after they have been playing through the single player experience that they want to join a guild, PvP, conquest, flashpoints, etc. And when they find out that those activities are extremely hard to come by when there are 4 people on most planets, they won't be the happiest customer or encouraged to invest more in the game.

 

Of course same players won't care. They found some people to play with, don't need a large population for their activities and will be happy just like many players in the game. The objective isn't to herd players into large pop servers they won't enjoy, but to make sure that players who end up in a bad scenario for no reason other than low pop servers existing with no reliable method to tell population size from the server select screen aren't punished. There are easy solutions.

 

- More accurately display server population size in game

- Allow new subs to transfer all created characters a single time within 6 months of account creation for free

- Allow returning players who have not subscribed for more than 12 months to transfer characters from select servers to select servers within 2 months of resubscribing for free

[Jadescythe]

So $10 is to much? look at most other MMO's. server transfers are $25. $10 isn't much and if it helps make it so you enjoy the game, it's worth skipping McDonalds 1 time this month.

 

I think his point is that it doesn't actually cost anywhere near $10 for BW to make the transfer. How much a transfer is worth is obviously subjective and other games have higher costs. Of course, not transferring in a game like WoW has a much lower impact on a player with cross-realm everything, so there is almost never a need to transfer.

[TUXs]

So $10 is to much? look at most other MMO's. server transfers are $25. $10 isn't much and if it helps make it so you enjoy the game, it's worth skipping McDonalds 1 time this month.

In a game like SWTOR, which has no cross realm play and has events that reward creating alt after alt after alt...yes.

[Toraak]

I think his point is that it doesn't actually cost anywhere near $10 for BW to make the transfer. How much a transfer is worth is obviously subjective and other games have higher costs. Of course, not transferring in a game like WoW has a much lower impact on a player with cross-realm everything, so there is almost never a need to transfer.

 

True, but there are ways to get a free transfer here.

 

1) Use a referral link. it grants a FREE Transfer if you haven't used one before.

 

2) If your a sub, don't use your CC's for 2 months and bam a free transfer.

 

3) Pay the extremely low cost of $10, then honestly they are enjoying the game that much since most other games do have higher costs to transfer.

 

2 out of these 3 options a FREE. Just because someone decides not to use these 2 Free options BW has given them a 3rd to move a character to where you need it to go. Not to mention you do not need to transfer 40 characters. Choose 1 to transfer and with the easy leveling, reroll your alts.

[LordSkyKnight]

Saving two months of your monthly subscription grant is not free. You pay for those coins.

[CaptRogue]

If you're trying to say W0W, without saying W0W, you're ignoring the fact that W0W has cross realm play for the lower population realms (whatever the hell a realm is). And I don't know for sure, but has any other MMO pushed alts nearly as hard as Bioware has? Bioware has EIGHT class stories for leveling...does any other MMO have even 4? Alts are a HUGE part of "content" in this game.

 

Yep WoW has many classes.

Paladin, Warrior, Mage, Priest, DK, Druid, Hunter, Monk, Shaman & Warlock.

With many different races too.

 

A Realm is the correct terminology for WoW's servers. Cross-Realm is what it's called. Servers are SWTOR.

Just like Dungeons = FPs, Raids = Ops, AH (Auction House) = GTN.

 

BW has pushed alts because it can not produce content properly. No one can tell me it can when I see Star Trek Online, with all it's noobness & graphics I don't care for, pushing out new content frequently. With F2P being able to access it too! (Not even going to go into how their Free to Play model actually works compared to BW's crap model.)

If BW/EA swallowed their pride & greed & put forth efforts into serious production, this game would be rivaling WoW. You would have something that pleased everyone. From story, to pvp, to Ops, to Open world stuff. But yet all BW wants to do is cash grab; milk this game for all it's worth then move onto their next project to do the same again. BW/EA needs to be nicknamed Galactus! lol

[Toraak]

Saving two months of your monthly subscription grant is not free. You pay for those coins.

 

 

On the contrary. You pay for full access to the game with your subscription. the 500CC's per month isn't part of the sub it's just a free bonus you get.

[Jadescythe]

True, but there are ways to get a free transfer here.

 

1) Use a referral link. it grants a FREE Transfer if you haven't used one before.

 

2) If your a sub, don't use your CC's for 2 months and bam a free transfer.

 

3) Pay the extremely low cost of $10, then honestly they are enjoying the game that much since most other games do have higher costs to transfer.

 

2 out of these 3 options a FREE. Just because someone decides not to use these 2 Free options BW has given them a 3rd to move a character to where you need it to go. Not to mention you do not need to transfer 40 characters. Choose 1 to transfer and with the easy leveling, reroll your alts.

 

Points one and two I agree with. Point 3 really is comparing apples to oranges. Most games that have high transfer costs either have some sort of realm v. realm gameplay that they want to discourage players from swapping between or offer cross-server gameplay to where transferring isn't necessary.

 

But ultimately, it's not a question of whether they have options, it's a question of whether those options will keep a returning player or even a new player in the game. If I came back to this game after a year because I heard KotFE was cool, found out Pot5 was dead and I had to wait 2 months, pay $10, or reroll my toons I would be far less likely to come back to the game. The big advantage to coming back to a game you played is that you don't have to start form scratch, but SWTOR has eliminated that advantage by making everyone start form scratch or pay them to play on more populated servers without starting from scratch.

[Jadescythe]

On the contrary. You pay for full access to the game with your subscription. the 500CC's per month isn't part of the sub it's just a free bonus you get.

 

That is just another way to say the same thing. By this logic, your sub is just a donation to BW and you get to access additional content as a free bonus.

[LordSkyKnight]

On the contrary. You pay for full access to the game with your subscription. the 500CC's per month isn't part of the sub it's just a free bonus you get.

 

No you pay for those coins, it's part of the package deal when you subscribe. It's not free.

[TUXs]

No you pay for those coins, it's part of the package deal when you subscribe. It's not free.

Exactly. They're used to increase the value of the sub fee.

[Toraak]

Exactly. They're used to increase the value of the sub fee.

 

 

Well that is debatable, however the fact is if you do not want to pay any extra, saving up 2 months of those CC's will give you a transfer.

[Rolodome]

True, but there are ways to get a free transfer here.

 

1) Use a referral link. it grants a FREE Transfer if you haven't used one before.

 

2) If your a sub, don't use your CC's for 2 months and bam a free transfer.

 

3) Pay the extremely low cost of $10, then honestly they are enjoying the game that much since most other games do have higher costs to transfer.

 

2 out of these 3 options a FREE. Just because someone decides not to use these 2 Free options BW has given them a 3rd to move a character to where you need it to go. Not to mention you do not need to transfer 40 characters. Choose 1 to transfer and with the easy leveling, reroll your alts.

I feel like you're going to pull a muscle with how much you're reaching here.

 

1) Using a referral grants one free transfer if you haven't used one before. So that's one free transfer you get in what, the entire life of the game? It's something, but returning players could easily have used it already and they are the main ones who are likely to need it. It also only accounts for one character and you can have a lot! Up to 40 with slot unlocks prior to the post-DvL change that made it max 50.

 

2) Waiting 1-2 months to get the CC to do one transfer. Again, really bad situation for returning players. Not really useful at all.

 

3) The "extremely low cost of $10"? If this was a game where you are limited to one character per server, I might agree with you that it's low cost because then you're essentially paying $10 to transfer the beginning and end of your life on that server to a different one. But a player who left prior to DvL and is now returning could have as many as 40 characters they need to transfer. 10*40=400. So they could need to spend as much as $400 to transfer every character on that server.

 

You expect someone to "reroll their alts" when they can have that many characters?

 

This game is all about immersion and story and growing attached to characters. Rerolling is not the same as in other games, unless you're somebody who doesn't grow attached to your characters at all. In which case you could probably be getting a much better game experience elsewhere. It's one of the reasons there was so much uproar about the DvL event and the inability to use pre-existing characters.

 

Fact is, nobody "needs" to transfer any characters. But people are going to desire to transfer anywhere from 1-40, if not more. And if that desire is blocked by too much of a paywall and they can't get the experience out of the game that they're looking to get, they are going to leave. It's not so much about giving people what they want, as it is about creating an environment where people will want to stick around.