Extortion of returning players

[Jadescythe]

How many CCs did they give people that were subbed prior to F2P? How much did the price change after F2P since the CC are now included?

 

What's that you say? The price didn't change? So you're getting access to all the bells and whistles, and some bonus CC on top of them too? What about the bonus CC for a Security Key? Is a one off payment on that meaning that they're not free too?

 

I don't think you want to have this argument. I got infinite CCs prior to F2P, because my subscription gave me access to EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. You're 100% correct though that BW didn't give me any CC to buy stuff that they didn't charge for prior to F2P though

[robertthebard]

I don't think you want to have this argument. I got infinite CCs prior to F2P, because my subscription gave me access to EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. You're 100% correct though that BW didn't give me any CC to buy stuff that they didn't charge for prior to F2P though

 

Exactly, they added that little bit of sugar to make that medicine go down, otherwise, for all of these "BW/EA are gouging players for all the money they can" people would have to realize that the sub rate did not increase when the coins were added to the package. Surely, if the "they're gouging us" crowd was accurate, they would have increased the price for a sub.

[ekwalizer]

I suppose you classify "leave the game" as "a way off". Of course all those dead servers must mean Austin is overflowing with replacement subs, right?

 

It really is a binary situation. People can either move to a populated server by the current means, or they can stay where they are (even if that means unsubbing).

 

Bioware has just said that without saying it. We just got a secret 2xp event for the next three months, on top of the DvL event. Seems to me like, since they are clearly in the giving mood, if they wanted to reduce the price to 90CC or 0CC they would have done that today.

 

But they didn't.

 

Bioware's solution is to tee-up releveling on another server as high as they can.

 

Once again, for the record: I do not care in the least for the plight of boomerangs or new players. They have not been here financially supporting this game and have no right to return and think because they decided to come back that they are special. So, no, I do not care in the slightest if they quit again.

[ekwalizer]

I don't think you want to have this argument. I got infinite CCs prior to F2P, because my subscription gave me access to EVERYTHING IN THE GAME. You're 100% correct though that BW didn't give me any CC to buy stuff that they didn't charge for prior to F2P though

 

I'm not aware that Bioware is forcing you to spend your free CC on anything now either.

 

Your subscription still does that.

Edited October 7, 2016 by ekwalizer

[Jadescythe]

Exactly, they added that little bit of sugar to make that medicine go down, otherwise, for all of these "BW/EA are gouging players for all the money they can" people would have to realize that the sub rate did not increase when the coins were added to the package. Surely, if the "they're gouging us" crowd was accurate, they would have increased the price for a sub.

 

Your first part makes sense, it eased the pain of having to spend money in a cash shop. Your conclusion that the sub price needed to increase makes no sense, however. Imagine that everything in the game that currenlty costs cartel coins was only purchaseable with credits. You will quickly realize that the move to a cash shop reduced the value of your sub significantly and 500 CCs hardly makes up for that.

 

But we are pretty far away from my original argument. The CCs are hardly "free" or "complimentary" if you are required to pay for them. The only complimentary cartel coins are the security key ones and the ones you get in game for certain achievements as they require no payment whatsoever to obtain.

[Jadescythe]

I'm not aware that Bioware is forcing you to spend your free CC on anything now either.

 

Your subscription still does that.

 

I never claimed that I was forced to buy anything, just like I wasn't forced to obtain/purchase everything prior to F2P. The difference is that now, some items can ONLY be acquired via CCs while my previous subscription allowed me access to these items just by playing the game. The argument that my sub is worth more since I get 500 CCs is incorrect when I previously would not have needed any CCs for new items/features in the game.

[ekwalizer]

I never claimed that I was forced to buy anything, just like I wasn't forced to obtain/purchase everything prior to F2P. The difference is that now, some items can ONLY be acquired via CCs while my previous subscription allowed me access to these items just by playing the game. The argument that my sub is worth more since I get 500 CCs is incorrect when I previously would not have needed any CCs for new items/features in the game.

 

Meaning the features that did not exist prior to the cartel market? The only things I am aware of that require CCs are appearance changes and server transfers. With everything else you can let someone else spend their CCs and you can buy them off the GTN.

 

This notion that the 500 are not free is ludicrous because you are ignoring the fact that you would pay the same price anyway. No one. Not one single person. Remains subscribed because of the 500. They are something you receive for a product that you were going to pay for regardless. The subscription fee never changed.

[Jadescythe]

Meaning the features that did not exist prior to the cartel market? The only things I am aware of that require CCs are appearance changes and server transfers. With everything else you can let someone else spend their CCs and you can buy them off the GTN.

 

This notion that the 500 are not free is ludicrous because you are ignoring the fact that you would pay the same price anyway. No one. Not one single person. Remains subscribed because of the 500. They are something you receive for a product that you were going to pay for regardless. The subscription fee never changed.

 

Your argument is that someone else can make the item available to you by paying for it instead? What if no one is selling it? What if rare items in the game were rare because they were difficult to obtain and not because only 100 were set to drop from money packs? Your argument that they are free because they are included in the price is ludicrous. Free implies that they come with no cost, yet you're telling me that you have to pay for them.

 

They are included in what BW provides for your subscription or "premium" fee. I am quite sure many players continue to stay subbed in part due to the CCs provided along with many other perks. I would not be at all surprised to see the number of players continuing to pay each month go down if the 500 CCs were removed from your subscription purchase.

[Savej]

Once again, for the record: I do not care in the least for the plight of boomerangs or new players. They have not been here financially supporting this game and have no right to return and think because they decided to come back that they are special. So, no, I do not care in the slightest if they quit again.

 

So you don't think the future of this game and the size/quality of any possible future xpacs is in any way tied to BW having more players? Just give them a middle finger icon after they pick the wrong server and follow the story to 65?

[ekwalizer]

Your argument is that someone else can make the item available to you by paying for it instead? What if no one is selling it? What if rare items in the game were rare because they were difficult to obtain and not because only 100 were set to drop from money packs? Your argument that they are free because they are included in the price is ludicrous. Free implies that they come with no cost, yet you're telling me that you have to pay for them.

 

They are included in what BW provides for your subscription or "premium" fee. I am quite sure many players continue to stay subbed in part due to the CCs provided along with many other perks. I would not be at all surprised to see the number of players continuing to pay each month go down if the 500 CCs were removed from your subscription purchase.

 

And your argument seems to be that before the cartel market your subscription gave you all of those wonderful things. It did not. Your subscription gave you access to content which could provide you with things. But you still had to do the content. You still had to earn the credits to spend on the GTN. So by your own metric, those things too were not "free" or even "included in the price of the subscription" because you still had to spend *time* to obtain them.

 

Nothing in this world is free, but those 500 comms do not cost you anything additionally. If you choose to not use them to get off of your dead server that is your decision, your problem and frankly your fault. That is my point.

[Jadescythe]

And your argument seems to be that before the cartel market your subscription gave you all of those wonderful things. It did not. Your subscription gave you access to content which could provide you with things. But you still had to do the content. You still had to earn the credits to spend on the GTN. So by your own metric, those things too were not "free" or even "included in the price of the subscription" because you still had to spend *time* to obtain them.

 

Nothing in this world is free, but those 500 comms do not cost you anything additionally. If you choose to not use them to get off of your dead server that is your decision, your problem and frankly your fault. That is my point.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. I agree, they cost nothing additionally. I strongly disagree with the sentiment that some players should have to spend them on server transfers simply because they lost the server lottery though. As for me, I've long since moved characters to most servers to establish my prescence and level new characters in some cases. That doesn't mean I agree others should be forced into the same situation.

[ekwalizer]

Now we're getting somewhere. I agree, they cost nothing additionally. I strongly disagree with the sentiment that some players should have to spend them on server transfers simply because they lost the server lottery though. As for me, I've long since moved characters to most servers to establish my prescence and level new characters in some cases. That doesn't mean I agree others should be forced into the same situation.

 

I didn't mean you you, I meant you generally. I agree that it is a bad situation for some people. Server lottery is fairly accurate. But a bad situation does not equate to the best option is hope Bioware fixes it for me.

 

But I have no sympathy for most people. I receive 600 cc per month "at no additional cost". That allowed me to move 6 characters per month "at no cost to me" during the TEN MONTHS of 90 CC CTS.

 

But some people weren't subscribed then is a common argument. Not my problem. Nor do I care. Because they chose to not be here financially supporting the game. I have no interest in the plight of johnny come lately.

 

The *only* people I have sympathy for are Guildmasters. Bioware should have accepted Guildmaster tickets to move guild assets.

 

We're all adults here. We should be responsible to manage our own entertainment. I could say that if my server were dead I would pay full freight to move my toons elsewhere. That wouldn't be a lie. My server is fine. In fact, I moved 15 toons off of JC yesterday at 1000CC per. Why? Because I could. I 600 CC per month not counting referral clicks. But, I did this because managing 40 characters just became too much so I evicted toons that I never play. I did it for convenience, not to enhance my gaming experience. I'm not saying everyone should do this. I'm just saying that my money is where my mouth is. That is all this paragraph is about.

[Jadescythe]

I didn't mean you you, I meant you generally. I agree that it is a bad situation for some people. Server lottery is fairly accurate. But a bad situation does not equate to the best option is hope Bioware fixes it for me.

 

But I have no sympathy for most people. I receive 600 cc per month "at no additional cost". That allowed me to move 6 characters per month "at no cost to me" during the TEN MONTHS of 90 CC CTS.

 

But some people weren't subscribed then is a common argument. Not my problem. Nor do I care. Because they chose to not be here financially supporting the game. I have no interest in the plight of johnny come lately.

 

The *only* people I have sympathy for are Guildmasters. Bioware should have accepted Guildmaster tickets to move guild assets.

 

We're all adults here. We should be responsible to manage our own entertainment. I could say that if my server were dead I would pay full freight to move my toons elsewhere. That wouldn't be a lie. My server is fine. In fact, I moved 15 toons off of JC yesterday at 1000CC per. Why? Because I could. I 600 CC per month not counting referral clicks. But, I did this because managing 40 characters just became too much so I evicted toons that I never play. I did it for convenience, not to enhance my gaming experience. I'm not saying everyone should do this. I'm just saying that my money is where my mouth is. That is all this paragraph is about.

 

I somewhat sympathize with other players, but mostly I just want more players in the game. Not to make BW more money (although more players means more money), but to make the game better for myself and, by extension, everyone else. More players means a more lively environment in the game and more resources in BW's pocket to create new content.

 

So whatever it takes to bring people back and keep new players is alright by me, even if they have other ways to solve their problem.

[ekwalizer]

I somewhat sympathize with other players, but mostly I just want more players in the game. Not to make BW more money (although more players means more money), but to make the game better for myself and, by extension, everyone else. More players means a more lively environment in the game and more resources in BW's pocket to create new content.

 

So whatever it takes to bring people back and keep new players is alright by me, even if they have other ways to solve their problem.

 

I hear what you are saying. But the problem is the game itself. An MMO with no new MMO content in 22 months is not going to draw new player or retain old ones. TFA didn't help, KotFE didn't help. KotET will not help and RS will not help. Those increases will be flashes in the pan just as they were last year. We'll see some new or returning faces for about 30 days and then they will be gone.

 

Someone said it earlier, there are better MMOs out there and there are better Single Player games out there.

 

What keeps me here is that it is Star Wars. Full stop. Exact same reason I stayed at SWG for 8.5 years. This current game has no redeeming qualities as an MMO.

[DarthJimilingus]

Have you used your free transfer yet? If you click on a referral link (not a pitch for mine, use a friends or a guildies or someone you agree with on these forums), you get ONE FREE character move...use it wisely. Load up that ONE toon with every bit of valuables you can (credits, items, etc) and move to Harbinger (it's the only server worth moving to imo).

 

Once there, start over...start the DvL event for the armor (24/40/50% XP boost). Leveling new toons absolutely sucks, and I know this is a crap suggestion, but it's the best advice I can offer you. Leveling is very quick these days (class quest only, PvP intro mission, a few random PvP matches and Heroics)...you'll hit 65 before you know it.

 

Far from a good plan, but it's the most practical.

 

I appreciate the advise. Appreciate everyone else's input as well. I did use my one freebie but it doesn't matter. I do NOT want to start over)basically) and to spend 18,000 coins to transfer ALL of my toons is crazy expensive and quite frankly I don't want to spend the time building my legacy back up either. It sucks. I'll just ride it out and HOPE things improve(doubtful) or that bioware offers a major sale so I can bolt POTF. I was eyeing up Harbinger. It seems pretty populated usually.

[Floredon]

I appreciate the advise. Appreciate everyone else's input as well. I did use my one freebie but it doesn't matter. I do NOT want to start over)basically) and to spend 18,000 coins to transfer ALL of my toons is crazy expensive and quite frankly I don't want to spend the time building my legacy back up either. It sucks. I'll just ride it out and HOPE things improve(doubtful) or that bioware offers a major sale so I can bolt POTF. I was eyeing up Harbinger. It seems pretty populated usually.

I was in the same boat as you. I didn't transfer when the transfers were 90cc because POT5 was still somewhat populated. Big mistake. Next time CC transfers go down to 90cc I will transfer in a heartbeat.

 

Since then, I have taken advantage of the DvL event on The Harbinger to build up a legacy there. It's so easy to level characters during this event. My problem now is what happens if I transfer a character without the DvL achievements, but higher legacy level to a server where my legacy level is lower but I have the DvL achieves. Are the legacies merged so I don't lose anything? I am really hesitant to transfer any POT5 toons because of this.

[Dunderheid]

I was in the same boat as you. I didn't transfer when the transfers were 90cc because POT5 was still somewhat populated. Big mistake. Next time CC transfers go down to 90cc I will transfer in a heartbeat.

 

Since then, I have taken advantage of the DvL event on The Harbinger to build up a legacy there. It's so easy to level characters during this event. My problem now is what happens if I transfer a character without the DvL achievements, but higher legacy level to a server where my legacy level is lower but I have the DvL achieves. Are the legacies merged so I don't lose anything? I am really hesitant to transfer any POT5 toons because of this.

 

When you merge legacies, nothing is lost - if there is stuff on the incoming legacy that is higher level it is added. Nothing is taken away from either. Example I transferred a toon from Progenitor with legacy level 45 and Bounty week 100% to Harbinger at level 50 with no bounty week points. Now the Harbinger legacy has 100% bounty week.

[Floredon]

When you merge legacies, nothing is lost - if there is stuff on the incoming legacy that is higher level it is added. Nothing is taken away from either. Example I transferred a toon from Progenitor with legacy level 45 and Bounty week 100% to Harbinger at level 50 with no bounty week points. Now the Harbinger legacy has 100% bounty week.

That is good to know, thanks.

[ekwalizer]

So you don't think the future of this game and the size/quality of any possible future xpacs is in any way tied to BW having more players? Just give them a middle finger icon after they pick the wrong server and follow the story to 65?

 

You haven't been paying attention. I have said repeatedly that the situation is bad, I have said repeatedly that if Bioware wanted to return to 90CC CTS or even 0CC CTS, I would be happy about that.

 

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but boomerangs and new players are not the future of this game. This game has no future because it has no meaningful current MMO content.

Have a look at this TORStatus of January 2015-January 2016. The exodus began pretty much when 12XP started. Gains from KotFE and TFA were negligible. Of those who returned or checked the game out because of those events ... most are no longer with us.

 

This server crisis did not just happen. The PvP servers were dead a year ago ... while 90CC CTS was still ongoing.

 

Now, as to your question. First and foremost, new players and boomerangs do not represent a significant percentage of the population. If they were a significant percentage of current players then we would not be having a discussion about server density. Those servers would be healthy, what with all the boomerangs and new players.

 

Second, neither of those have been here financially supporting the game. "Hey, I am not personally or financially invested in this game, but Bioware needs to give me unlimited free transfers or I will quit again."

 

If we are going to play this emotional game, where does it end? What about the poor soul that had 8-10 toons on Pot5, Jung Ma, The Basition and every other now dead server? Should all of their toons be moved at no cost to them?

 

Why couldn't they take advantage of 10 Months of 90CC CTS? That would have been 5-6 **free** transfers per month for a subscriber. Let's see 5-6 times 10 ... carry the 1 ... it's 50-60 that could have been transferred if they had bothered to a.) be here or b.) use their brains.

 

Pot5 didn't just die. It has been dead since at least December 2015. The event was still ongoing. They even brought it (90 CC CTS) back for a week to give those who regretted not moving a chance to move.

 

How many chances will it take? If they brought it back again, we'd be having this same discussion literally the day after it ended.

[TheSkate]

But I have no sympathy for most people. I receive 600 cc per month "at no additional cost". That allowed me to move 6 characters per month "at no cost to me" during the TEN MONTHS of 90 CC CTS.

 

If we are going to play this emotional game, where does it end? What about the poor soul that had 8-10 toons on Pot5, Jung Ma, The Basition and every other now dead server? Should all of their toons be moved at no cost to them?

Why couldn't they take advantage of 10 Months of 90CC CTS? That would have been 5-6 **free** transfers per month for a subscriber. Let's see 5-6 times 10 ... carry the 1 ... it's 50-60 that could have been transferred if they had bothered to a.) be here or b.) use their brains.

Pot5 didn't just die. It has been dead since at least December 2015. The event was still ongoing. They even brought it (90 CC CTS) back for a week to give those who regretted not moving a chance to move.

How many chances will it take? If they brought it back again, we'd be having this same discussion literally the day after it ended.

 

 

I have been an active player since closed Beta and a paying Subscriber since day one. I never heard about the 90cc transfers, so how is someone that isn't an active player supposed to have known about them?

I used to spend a lot of time on Jung Ma before my friends that played on that server quit and I have tons of unique gear there. I have 3 characters on Jung Ma I would have transferred over to Ebon Hawk if I had heard of the 90cc transfers.

Is it a big deal to me? No. I already have 8 max level char on Ebon Hawk with all current chapters completed. I have 6 more nearly there. But some of the legacy purchases and unique items on Jung Ma would have been nice to have on Ebon Hawk.

But for some people their entire legacy is stuck on dead servers like Jung Ma. There are less people on the entire Jung Ma server (all planets + fleet combined) during peak play times than there are on the Ebon Hawk fleet alone.

People on servers that dead should be given either free transfers of heavily discounted transfers.

Edited October 8, 2016 by TheSkate