Nerf Blood Hunt HM so people can complete it for DvL.

[SeCKSEgai]

You're right, BH is harder than most FP's. And yes, the rewards are lousy. But this isn't the topic and either fact doesn't warrant a nerf.

And you don't need gear for it, as my video clearly shows(the one I linked, it's actually from my pov).

If anything, the remaining, easier FP's should be balanced at the level of BoR or BH, not the other way around. There's already plenty of braindead easy stuff in the game. No need to nerf something that can be done basically naked just because most people are to bad to do it.

 

And for the record: I've done this, and every other HM FP, in PuGs more than once. We always came through in the end.

 

That's where we'd disagree. For example, both ev and kp hm net far better rewards and can be completed with weaker fundamental skills. Blood Hunt, Lost Island, & Battle of Rishi require players to have a stronger fundamental skill set and provides essentially just vendor trash.

 

Now while ev/kp hm is really another topic altogether, as they are essentially the operation training wheels for players, HM FPs in my mind are training wheels for getting into SM Operations.

 

Now while I think they went a little overboard with the nerfbat on SM Ops, they are supposed to be more difficult - at least based on the reward system. A 216 unassembled token is better than anything that drops in HM Fps since the highest they drop is one exarch trash item.

 

From my perspective, it doesn't make sense for there to be this crazy disparity between difficulty and rewards. What's there to motivate oneself to increase the chance of failure with not even a carrot at the end of a stick? I would be more than happy to see all the hm flashpoints around the same difficulty level if they were properly rewarded.

 

But ultimately I think both tacticals and HM Fps have been problematic since 4.0. Instead of proper rebalancing around the gear levels and bolster, enemy health and damage was scaled up across the board. Tacs used to something you steamroll quickly and was at one point the one time where a full dps team was actually ideal over the trinity. Now even in a tactical you tend to want the full trinity despite tacs supposedly being balanced for "ANY" team composition.

 

The SoR Fps came last and were generally more difficult than their predecessors. BH was a pug killer even in 3.0. The recommended gear for HM FPs in 3.0 was just 178s - yet groups in 192s often failed to clear the first boss. For BH I think a lot of it is an engine issue as I know frame rates on a lot of setups end up a near slideshow when the rocks start flying. In Battle of Rishi, the telegraphs are dramatically more frequent but what really pushes it is the damage output and health of the adds.

 

Going back to the idea of "training wheels", its my SM and HM raid experience that trained me to be competent for an HM Flashpoint....?

 

Now, with that said, given that a lot of people attempting to complete those HM FPs not only have failed to develop solid fundamentals and have little to no sm let alone Hm raid experience - where they were once chugging along with some minor setbacks they are now stopped cold.

 

This game decided to market itself towards a more "casual" community. Considering how so many SM ops have been nerfed so heavily, it makes no real sense for a handful of HM Fps to gate this DvL event marketed towards them. The only reason I ever set foot in the HM Fps was because of the event - and there was no fun just relief to have it out of the way. If so much effort is being taken to rehash the stale content, it should be an enjoyable one.

 

People complain about this game getting too easy, but at the same time how many people are really motivated to learn to play at nim raiding status? You're more likely to find people that think they're HM ready because they struggled through a KP/EV HM.

 

Oh, you're "disgusted" at the responses to the OP, are you?

So .,..

 

His responses were poor but they were also typical in retaliaton for a "L2P" response, more so the berating ones.

[ImNotFatImObese]

Okay morons,

 

Between Friday after work and now. I have had a total of 14 queue pops for Bloodhunt HM. Out of those 14 groups. 9 of those had people quit right away when they seen which one it was. Every time we got in to GF chat people voiced their hate for this FP. Those other 5 groups. I either in queue on as healer or dps and none of them came close to beating first boss.

 

But to a more serious matter. What about the real topic of this post?

[JLazarillo]

Okay morons,

I'mma give you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that that's sort of an attempt at being affectionately derogatory.

 

Between Friday after work and now. I have had a total of 14 queue pops for Bloodhunt HM. Out of those 14 groups. 9 of those had people quit right away when they seen which one it was. Every time we got in to GF chat people voiced their hate for this FP. Those other 5 groups. I either in queue on as healer or dps and none of them came close to beating first boss.

I think the key point on difficulty is this: Hard Modes should not necessarily be nerfed. The point of the game is to have fun, and different people have fun in different ways. Removing or nerfing challenges kinda gives the finger to the challenge-loving crowd, and thus, unless the fights are just inherently unfair, should mostly be left alone.

 

However, I also believe that any content that can't be completed in a reasonable fashion by any four schmucks that happen to queue in the Group Finder shouldn't be available on the Group Finder in the first place. Just like Hardmode and Nighmare Operations aren't available in the Group Finder, HM Flashpoints should be left out of them as well as long as they are going to continue to require the performance level that some of them do (or, at least, those harder FPs should be removed and/or put at their own level, like LI was, back in days of yore). Let the people who want to form a team for the challenge do so, but don't "mislead" the schmucks like me who think that something can be completed just because you queue for it and find some warm bodies.

 

Similarly, I'd advocate nerfing some of the Story Mode Operations even further, for the same reasons. But Hardmodes, ultimately, of all content, should remain hard.

 

But to a more serious matter. What about the real topic of this post?

I think it's mostly a moot point. While I don't like that Hardmode content was made part of the event, considering it's soon to end, and considering how much gnashing of teeth there would be from people who did them the "hard" way to get the event achievement, it is, for better or worse, not worth changing now.

[PaxSithari]

However, I also believe that any content that can't be completed in a reasonable fashion by any four schmucks that happen to queue in the Group Finder shouldn't be available on the Group Finder in the first place. Just like Hardmode and Nighmare Operations aren't available in the Group Finder, HM Flashpoints should be left out of them as well as long as they are going to continue to require the performance level that some of them do (or, at least, those harder FPs should be removed and/or put at their own level, like LI was, back in days of yore). Let the people who want to form a team for the challenge do so, but don't "mislead" the schmucks like me who think that something can be completed just because you queue for it and find some warm bodies.

 

I don't disagree with this idea, but I'd rather see a tweak of it. Ideally, there should be a gear check for some of the harder HM FPs, and instituting that may save some of the issues. The other thing would be limiting some of the harder FPs to being above a certain level. Right now, 50 and above can queue for the HMs. This is fine to an extent, but there is a world of difference between Hammer Station (one I healed naked), and Manaan. So limiting the SOR and prelude HM FPs to level 65 may solve part of the issue. Instituting a gear check may solve some of the others. There is no solving L2P, except education.

[peter_plankskull]

Okay morons,

 

Between Friday after work and now. I have had a total of 14 queue pops for Bloodhunt HM. Out of those 14 groups. 9 of those had people quit right away when they seen which one it was. Every time we got in to GF chat people voiced their hate for this FP. Those other 5 groups. I either in queue on as healer or dps and none of them came close to beating first boss.

 

But to a more serious matter. What about the real topic of this post?

 

Jesus, at this point just give me your name if your on Harb and ill help you, no joke.

[Tsetso]

Jesus, at this point just give me your name if your on Harb and ill help you, no joke.

 

I doubt that Jesus is on Harb, but in case he is, i'm pretty sure his name i s Christ

[nepochop]

Jesus, at this point just give me your name if your on Harb and ill help you, no joke.

 

I already tried asking him, i can help too.

[nepochop]

Okay morons,

 

Between Friday after work and now. I have had a total of 14 queue pops for Bloodhunt HM. Out of those 14 groups. 9 of those had people quit right away when they seen which one it was. Every time we got in to GF chat people voiced their hate for this FP. Those other 5 groups. I either in queue on as healer or dps and none of them came close to beating first boss.

 

But to a more serious matter. What about the real topic of this post?

 

We tried to explain it to you in this thread, yes people dont like it and even hate it, BUT its only becuase they cannot beat it because (im sorry to be so direct) they suck! If people know how to play their class, know the mechanics and what to do, they wouldnt fail on it and they wouldnt leave when that fps pops! So the problem isnt the Flashpoint itself, but the people, please understand that.

 

Requesting a nerf is not the answer to this. You might as well request nerfs for NiM operatiions then.

[Tsetso]

We tried to explain it to you in this thread, yes people dont like it and even hate it, BUT its only becuase they cannot beat it because (im sorry to be so direct) they suck! If people know how to play their class, know the mechanics and what to do, they wouldnt fail on it and they wouldnt leave when that fps pops! So the problem isnt the Flashpoint itself, but the people, please understand that.

 

Requesting a nerf is not the answer to this. You might as well request nerfs for NiM operatiions then.

 

The problem is no that some people suck, I sucked too when i started to play this game, but instead of going to forums and cry nerff, i made everything possible to improve my skills.

[Toraak]

The problem is no that some people suck, I sucked too when i started to play this game, but instead of going to forums and cry nerff, i made everything possible to improve my skills.

 

That's just it tho, people aren't trying to improve the skill level they have. If something is to difficult they just go to the forums and complain that something needs to be nerfed, instead of actually (gasp) researching their class and practicing rotations, learning the proper way to gear etc.

 

If fewer people just complained about nerfing something, and learned how to improve themselves, then we'd have a lot better over all community. There are plenty of guides for gear/rotations out there for everyone to use, now it's up to them to practice, and improve themselves.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Toraak

[Nomaad]

That's just it tho, people aren't trying to improve the skill level they have. If something is to difficult they just go to the forums and complain that something needs to be nerfed, instead of actually (gasp) researching their class and practicing rotations, learning the proper way to gear etc.

 

If fewer people just complained about nerfing something, and learned how to improve themselves, then we'd have a lot better over all community. There are plenty of guides for gear/rotations out there for everyone to use, now it's up to them to practice, and improve themselves.

 

There is nothing hard about hard mode blood hunt, what's hard is getting a queue for it when you have people who don't like to play their class, move out of stupid, and are generally bad gamers. ^ this guy hit the nail on the head in regards to kind of people who would rather spend the time crying and coming on the forums and tell us how unfair content is rather than spending that time learning how to play.

[LudhaninRolgge]

There is nothing hard about hard mode blood hunt

 

4.1k DPS check on furrball though. Much hard, very tight, such impossible.

[Snean]

it is very much simplified.

I remember him at the start. now it is a pale shadow of the pain that was before.

[Eriamea]

Enough with nerfing. This game has been dumbed down enough already. besides, legendary must mean something other than pure grinding. Gear up a little, balance your stats and stay out of circles other than your healer's. Also learn your rotation and you will be fine. He had a few guildies who were having trouble with the dps check, we told them to practice their rotation and an hour later they aced it. Bring a high dps so if you have a weaker "element" it can balance out.

 

And no, BH is easy for whoever does HM NIM ops.

Edited October 16, 2016 by Eriamea

[TheRandomno]

Did my first proper try of BH HM (the other try was where no one wanted to do it, we wiped on boss at about 90% then all quit). The biggest issue I had was the flying rocks. If you just miss getting out in time, you get stunned until another rock or two comes and kills you. This is similar to BoR final boss, there's a lot of AoE and if you get hit by any it makes stuff a lot harder.

[SeCKSEgai]

There is nothing hard about hard mode blood hunt, what's hard is getting a queue for it when you have people who don't like to play their class, move out of stupid, and are generally bad gamers. ^ this guy hit the nail on the head in regards to kind of people who would rather spend the time crying and coming on the forums and tell us how unfair content is rather than spending that time learning how to play.

 

I call bs.

 

The reason that most of us are unwilling to pug it is because the skillcap to complete it is a lot higher than almost the rest of the HMs, short of maybe Rishi (more or less being on par) and Lost Island.

 

I've got over 70% in Operations completed. I've cleared content harder than BH HM at level. But that experience also allows me to recognize that there is a problem. The challenge versus reward is way out of wack. The fact that I have to be extremely selective in who I run through it with speaks droves.

 

To be fair, I've seen people who have cleared hardmode operations (beyond kp/ev) fail at even Assault on Tython because they refused to follow basic directions and eat purple circles. Despite coming from the same expansion, BH HM was always harder and people recognized that even then.

 

I knew BH HM was going to be gating people from the start of DVL and it was the first HM FP I made sure to get done with a hand selected group because I KNEW most of the player base lacked the skillset to complete it. While I recognize resorting to the nerf button is often the easy way out, it simply does not make sense to me for there to be such a disparity across difficulty in HM FPs. The rewards are vendor trash and you can get better gear in easier Operations - there's no sense in BH HM to be at that level of extreme.

 

If it wasn't for DvL I would have never set foot in a tactical or HM FP again. While I would be much happier if the entire player base could complete it with ease, I know better. When you start seeing people offering payment just to get through an HM FP, that should be a blatant sign that something is amiss. While I had the luxury of having a guild of raiders to fill out my group, that wasn't always the case. Some servers are lucky to get fp pops at all.

[nyrkverse]

Did my first proper try of BH HM (the other try was where no one wanted to do it, we wiped on boss at about 90% then all quit). The biggest issue I had was the flying rocks. If you just miss getting out in time, you get stunned until another rock or two comes and kills you.

 

depending on class you can avoid being stunned and/or mitigate most of the damage: force camo, shroud (resilience), probably hydraulics override (hold the line)...entrench/hunker down should also work I'd imagine.

[TheRandomno]

depending on class you can avoid being stunned and/or mitigate most of the damage: force camo, shroud (resilience), probably hydraulics override (hold the line)...entrench/hunker down should also work I'd imagine.

 

Sorc healer, so I have 1 Barrier and then I'm screwed...

[nyrkverse]

Sorc healer, so I have 1 Barrier and then I'm screwed...

 

mhm, can't you break the stun from the rocks with force speed + emersion (or what is it called on the sorcs, the utility that lets you use force speed while rooted). Also, you must have a utility that reduces damage while stunned? I don't know sorcs but I'm sure you must have something to help, at least a little bit

 

If not, then it's back to the "don't stand in stupid" strategy. It's a thing

[TheRandomno]

mhm, can't you break the stun from the rocks with force speed + emersion (or what is it called on the sorcs, the utility that lets you use force speed while rooted). Also, you must have a utility that reduces damage while stunned? I don't know sorcs but I'm sure you must have something to help, at least a little bit

 

But it breaks roots like you said, not stuns...

 

If not, then it's back to the "don't stand in stupid" strategy. It's a thing

 

That can be one of the easiest strategies to understand but hardest to execute.

[Simpanx]

It's called HARDmode for a reason. I'm always amazed how noobs enters a HMFP and is surprised why it's so hard or why they fail on tactics. Look at the name you plebs!

[Deavastro]

The problem for me, as a tank, is that I rarely can figure out what went wrong when we do wipe. Sure I can tell if I'm taking too much damage or if I'm not taunting the boss back fast enough. However I cant spare much attention to how fast the adds hp drop, how well the heals are coping, how much stupid are the dps standing in etc. Maybe I just lack awareness, I do main a shadow tank so looking at buff bar at the wrong time can be a b****.

 

Surprisingly while my main is a shadow tank I've only had about 5/20 successful runs it for blood hunt., while on my (flashpoint geared) jug tank 9/10...

 

I dunno if its possible but if they made combat logs available to the group so I could tell what the weak link(s) is/are it would be a massive help. I am aware of the pitfalls that would happen by implementing that... still I think its worth it.

 

I could of course just check achieves/gear but I've had players in sub par gear and either cause they were getting carried or they just knew their class we one shot everything. I've also had players who keep flashing nim achieves who i wouldn't trust to dps EV 1st boss. As for going over each mechanic in painstaking detail.... I'm kinda burnt out on that after explaining the Manan bonus fight 25 times.

[Memo-]

The problem for me, as a tank, is that I rarely can figure out what went wrong when we do wipe. Sure I can tell if I'm taking too much damage or if I'm not taunting the boss back fast enough. However I cant spare much attention to how fast the adds hp drop, how well the heals are coping, how much stupid are the dps standing in etc. Maybe I just lack awareness, I do main a shadow tank so looking at buff bar at the wrong time can be a b****.

 

Shadow tanks only have one buff to follow, and Blood Hunt HM is such low level content that you can just dismiss it and reapply Kinetic Ward on cooldown. And why the hell aren't you hitting adds yourself. D:

[Deavastro]

Hah of course I'm hitting adds, stuns, aoe taunt to heal/grab aggro, cleanse debuff when possible, and whatever else I'm supposed to do(that I know of). I'm an average tank not totally new . The issue remains for me I cant pay too much attention to what other people are doing.

Hmm ill give it a shot applying kinetic wards on cd... though that goes against everything people told me about shadow tanking.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Look at the name you plebs!

 

Ah, the Typical Toxic Elitist (TTE).

 

I mean, I bet there are some kinky forums out there filled with people loving to be called "Plebs"