Free Character Transfers - WoW always did it, why can't you ?

[Andryah]

Well... I don't think there are server first achievements in this game, so that already cuts out one problem. Population and server lines are drawn well enough at this point that PvPers aren't likely to leave their home base on a whim. Price fixing... maybe? I never saw it happen though and I was with that game from launch all the way to a few months into the F2P change. I have to wonder where you're getting the information that such was happening. Did you see it on their forums or...?

 

There were indeed enough PvPers using the 90cc transfer to server hop, mostly for ranked if I recall correctly, that this was in fact a point of discussion in the forums back when the discount was still on. So, some PvPers were in fact gaming the discount to advantage beyond just a one way server move.

 

Others were gaming the server economies, though I'm not sure I see that as a real issue, but some players did, as they felt it was causing harm to their servers economy. There were pretty clear signs it was happening, but I don't buy into the "it's destroying my servers economy" stance that some players were taking.

 

I don't know what the right answer is.. there probably is not one, certainly not perfect one for sure ... but I do know that 90cc did result in a good amount of gaming the system (in terms of what the studio intended), and of course people gamed the crap out of it for 180cc name changes. Free transfers will just exacerbate this, even with a cool down.

 

As I stated earlier, my guess is Bioware will implement some sort of incentive program to encourage players to move from populated servers to less populated servers, and make said transfers free (though restricted in terms of to/from). It's probably the best way to encourage movement from large servers to smaller servers, without actually forcing any player to do anything the do not want to do. [We already know they could do this as we saw for a brief day or two a while back that the server transfer page was actually offering free transfers. That tells me that they know they need to do it and have coded the website to do so]. But the timing, restrictions, etc. are something only the studio knows. My guess ---> release the expac, and this year instead of increasing server capacity on the large servers to prevent queues and the hamsters dying under stress.... they will offer a move-from-large-to-smaller incentive. Which is of course not what the OP wants. He wants the reverse, or actual server merges.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Rolodome]

There were indeed enough PvPers using the 90cc transfer to server hop, mostly for ranked if I recall correctly, that this was in fact a point of discussion in the forums back when the discount was still on. So, some PvPers were in fact gaming the discount to advantage beyond just a one way server move.

 

Others were gaming the server economies, though I'm not sure I see that as a real issue, but some players did, as they felt it was causing harm to their servers economy. There were pretty clear signs it was happening, but I don't buy into the "it's destroying my servers economy" stance that some players were taking.

 

I don't know what the right answer is.. there probably is not one, certainly not perfect one for sure ... but I do know that 90cc did result in a good amount of gaming the system (in terms of what the studio intended), and of course people gamed the crap out of it for 180cc name changes. Free transfers will just exacerbate this, even with a cool down.

I see your point, but did the 90cc have a cooldown?

 

I've not heard any mention of one, but maybe I just missed it.

 

I mean, if you allow one-way ticket, but then it takes a week or a month to go back, that's a pretty significant barrier in cutting down the gaming of the system.

 

I can agree that it would still happen... some. But with as much as a month, it'd be pretty hard to do so. Heck, putting myself in the head of someone wanting to game the system, I think personally if I had to wait a month, I'd forget what I was planning to do by the time the cooldown wore off LOL.

[Andryah]

I see your point, but did the 90cc have a cooldown?

 

I've not heard any mention of one, but maybe I just missed it.

 

 

Nope. It had no cooldown. No paid server transfer does in this game.

 

A one week cooldown won't hinder those who want to game the servers much. Probably not at all. One month is probably too long though. IMO, make the cool down a random number between 10 days and 21 days, determined at the time of the transfer. That would put enough uncertainty in the cooldown so as to defeat most organized group efforts to game the system. It would largely stop PvP server hopping for ranked I'm sure. But the downside is such uncertainty will be complained about by some players and outright attacked by others as "unfair".

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy solution to this that will please everyone. Which brings us full circle.. we have to wait and see what the studio decides to do about those servers that are essentially empty, but not dead.

 

MMOs are social behavior ecosystems. Like any such ecosystem, you start with what it is you want your target audience to do, then you create incentives for them to follow the direction you want them to follow, then you step back and let each member of your audience decide if they want to follow the path you set or not. In the end, it is their choice. Humans, being clever, will find every nook and crany for ways to game the system. So, you watch, and adjust as needed to close those nooks and cranies.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Andryah

[Rolodome]

Nope. It had no cooldown. No paid server transfer does in this game.

 

A one week cooldown won't hinder those who want to game the servers much. Probably not at all. One month is probably too long though. IMO, make the cool down a random number between 10 days and 21 days, determined at the time of the transfer. That would put enough uncertainty in the cooldown so as to defeat most organized group efforts to game the system. It would largely stop PvP server hopping for ranked I'm sure. But the downside is such uncertainty will be complained about by some players and outright attacked by others as "unfair".

 

Unfortunately, I don't think there is any easy solution to this that will please everyone. Which brings us full circle.. we have to wait and see what the studio decides to do about those servers that are essentially empty, but not dead.

 

MMOs are social behavior ecosystems. Like any such ecosystem, you start with what it is you want your target audience to do, then you create incentives for them to follow the direction you want them to follow, then you step back and let each member of your audience decide if they want to follow the path you set or not. In the end, it is their choice. Humans, being clever, will find every nook and crany for ways to game the system. So, you watch, and adjust as needed to close those nooks and cranies.

True. I never talk solutions with the expectation that it will please everyone. Randomization would probably be the most practical from a deterrent standpoint, but like you said, would be considered unfair.

 

That said, this is just my philosophy about game design in general, but: I'm generally of the opinion that making the experience better for the average player is more important than deterring some players from doing unintended stuff. The trick of it (and this, I suppose, is where a lot of the debate comes in) is determining when unintended stuff overlaps into a worse experience for the average player. Exploitative behavior that doesn't affect anyone else (say, a player exploiting to unlock a datacron or something) is largely a non-issue for QOL. Exploitative behavior that is likely to affect other players (ex: credit duping) can harm QOL. So yes, there is some balancing to be done in terms of whether the benefits to the average player outweighs the drawbacks for that same player.

 

In other words (from a game development standpoint) my philosophy is roughly this: "Keep your cheating to yourself and I'll keep my fixes to myself. Cheat my players and I'll fix yo face." (Ok, I was just having fun with that last part )

[Khevar]

But by all means keep arguing in favor of capitalist mindsets.

Tell me, tovarishch, how many video games have been produced in communist countries?

 

Go ahead and look it up.

 

I'll wait.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Khevar

[DreadtechSavant]

WoW didn't have dead servers btw. So free transfer from dead servers is a way to go or merge already others.

 

Not the point, the OP's headline is a outright lie.

[ekwalizer]

It's stupid to think in such simple manner ! But i guess most ignorant fellows are quite sure of themselves. That's why they look so confident and happy.

 

My personal problem, is like i stated in my previous post, i have my original legacy still back at TOFN. One that i burried money in, and for that fact alone, considering i'm a day one player that just reached legend again, even though it was my choice to do it because i love starwars, that doesn't change the fact that 1 free character transfer per account is simply pointless. Not when u have cargo bays spread across chars with items, and chars that are more important to you catching dust.

 

And yes, i see your point, i just don't really use cartel coins for nothing else then rolling the dice. Something that i really gotta stop doing, and will, if they keep ignoring old players.

 

The 90 cc move option was in play for 10 months. You are choosing to use your 5-600 cm/month stipend for junk when you could have used them over that time to solve the problem that you have. Your server did not die over night.

 

As a day-1 early access player, I have no sympathy for anyone that wastes their free monthly CM comms on vanity nonsense and then comes to the forum and complains that BW needs to either merge servers or provide free moves. They effectively gave every subscriber 5-6 free moves per month through the stipend. It isn't the studio's fault that people couldn't be bothered to do a little basic mathematics and fix their own problems.

 

When you move a character, they bring with them all of the other legacy's perks.

 

Server mergers are flat out the wrong answer. You would have no control over that, over where your characters go, you would have no input on name changes etc.

 

Every time I moved characters (and I did it a lot) during the 10 months of 90cc moves, I created a character at the destination server with the name that I wanted/had on the origin server, then moved the character from the origin server, then deleted the place holder, and renamed the gibberish system named character.

 

But those of us smart enough to do all that are the dumb ones I suppose.

Edited September 18, 2016 by ekwalizer

[letitdie]

The 90 cc move option was in play for 10 months. You are choosing to use your 5-600 cm/month stipend for junk when you could have used them over that time to solve the problem that you have. Your server did not die over night.

 

As a day-1 early access player, I have no sympathy for anyone that wastes their free monthly CM comms on vanity nonsense and then comes to the forum and complains that BW needs to either merge servers or provide free moves. They effectively gave every subscriber 5-6 free moves per month through the stipend. It isn't the studio's fault that people couldn't be bothered to do a little basic mathematics and fix their own problems.

 

When you move a character, they bring with them all of the other legacy's perks.

 

Server mergers are flat out the wrong answer. You would have no control over that, over where your characters go, you would have no input on name changes etc.

 

Every time I moved characters (and I did it a lot) during the 10 months of 90cc moves, I created a character at the destination server with the name that I wanted/had on the origin server, then moved the character from the origin server, then deleted the place holder, and renamed the gibberish system named character.

 

But those of us smart enough to do all that are the dumb ones I suppose.

 

What you consider vanity, is for me one of the main reasons i play this game. Immersion. Excuse me for caring about looking apart in a story, cutscene based MMO.

 

And i'm not one of the lucky ones that besides knowing all the schemes to be filthy rich in in-game currency, usually pop a pack and get a super rare item (that's how stupid this RNG mechanic is). I never had the patience or motivation to grind anything, even in wow, but i did it with this event. All for nothing. Add that efford + money and you can probably understand how frustrating it is when you can't seem to enjoy yourself.

 

Wich brings me to another topic. Prices on GTN. I would prefer they gave me a partial refund button (like 50% of the cartel coins you spent on the pack) on the items i don't like, that i could later buy more packs with and maybe get something worthwhile, rather than sell it for 4000 credits. That's how low people underprice cartel armor, and it still doesn't sell. This ideia i belive would eliminate the need of 136846436737638957698357698735986739576 cargo holds, and maybe give people like me that simply hate farming, a chance to get their credits back. Or at least a cool item every once in a while.

[TUXs]

There's no reason it shouldn't be free except ineptitude and greed. Asking a player to pay $10 PER toon, in a game that is entirely alt focused, is ridiculous. You have a right to be upset OP. Your complaint is very valid. Unlike the players defending this price, who are so addicted that they feel $10 is fine, the people who are complaining have already proven they're able to quit playing this game at a moments notice.

 

IMO...don't EVER pay that money to them. You get ONE free character transfer from using a referral link...find someone who you like (friend, guildmate, forum poster), use their link and move ONE toon who takes everything of any value (credits and completely full bank) with him. Move that one toon and start over. Grinding new toons is easy as hell these days...do it that way. If you really need more than one to start with, bring another one for the $10...but don't spend anything more than that...please...

[letitdie]

There's no reason it shouldn't be free except ineptitude and greed. Asking a player to pay $10 PER toon, in a game that is entirely alt focused, is ridiculous. You have a right to be upset OP. Your complaint is very valid. Unlike the players defending this price, who are so addicted that they feel $10 is fine, the people who are complaining have already proven they're able to quit playing this game at a moments notice.

 

IMO...don't EVER pay that money to them. You get ONE free character transfer from using a referral link...find someone who you like (friend, guildmate, forum poster), use their link and move ONE toon who takes everything of any value (credits and completely full bank) with him. Move that one toon and start over. Grinding new toons is easy as hell these days...do it that way. If you really need more than one to start with, bring another one for the $10...but don't spend anything more than that...please...

 

Thank you

 

But since i just check my box and i have a warning for my coment, i guess they don't really care if you are happy or not. So on that note, i'd like you all to know this was my last subscription for a long while.

 

Maybe i'll come back or maybe i won't, either way i feel really sad how ****** this game is becoming to 1st day players.

[Ratajack]

Thank you

 

But since i just check my box and i have a warning for my coment, i guess they don't really care if you are happy or not. So on that note, i'd like you all to know this was my last subscription for a long while.

 

Maybe i'll come back or maybe i won't, either way i feel really sad how ****** this game is becoming to 1st day players.

 

Another fine example of addition by subtraction.

 

Good Bye, don't let the logout screen hit you in the posterior on the way out.

[Ratajack]

There's no reason it shouldn't be free except ineptitude and greed. Asking a player to pay $10 PER toon, in a game that is entirely alt focused, is ridiculous. You have a right to be upset OP. Your complaint is very valid. Unlike the players defending this price, who are so addicted that they feel $10 is fine, the people who are complaining have already proven they're able to quit playing this game at a moments notice.

 

I guess we should just give everything away for FREE, since we might lose a player or two if they don't get everything exactly the way they want it, and if BW doesn't bend over backwards to accommodate them.

 

IMO...don't EVER pay that money to them. You get ONE free character transfer from using a referral link...find someone who you like (friend, guildmate, forum poster), use their link and move ONE toon who takes everything of any value (credits and completely full bank) with him. Move that one toon and start over. Grinding new toons is easy as hell these days...do it that way. If you really need more than one to start with, bring another one for the $10...but don't spend anything more than that...please...

 

You're ignoring one very important fact about the OP.

 

The OP acknowledges that BW gave him 5-600 CC's per month for the entire 10 month length of the 90 CC transfer sale.

 

He admits that he squandered those CC's on things other than transferring his characters.

 

Basically, he could have transferred all of his characters without paying a single cent, but he chose to use those CC's for other things and now wants BW to give him FREE transfers because he CHOSE not to use the CC he got as a stipend to transfer characters.

[MaximusRex]

Start caring more for the greater good instead of your own selves

 

Says they person 100% motivated by their own self interest in this matter. Take your own advice before preaching to the pots.

Edited September 20, 2016 by MaximusRex

[letitdie]

Says they person 100% motivated by their own self interest in this matter. Take your own advice before preaching to the pots.

 

Because you would be so happy to start over in an MMO.

 

You think i'm greedy when you don't have any ideia how much money i spent on cartel market since it came out. I find it unbelievable you people are defending that i should spend even MORE money on transfering my chars.

 

Tell me how am i being the only greedy one, when there are dozens of topics in these forums all asking the same thing - server mergers, or free char transfers.

 

Like i said before, it's easy to talk crap when you have everything you want and without spending a dime. That's not the case for me, and certainly not for most of the people. Not everything should be free, or cheap. But having 1 free char transfer per account, is not at all useful when u have 8+ chars fully ready to do ops on a dead server.

[letitdie]

I find it ironic that you talk about BW as being greedy when you had the capability to transfer all of your characters without having to spend another cent, yet CHOSE not to do so and instead squander all those CC's that BW GAVE you, and now you want BW to give you FREE transfers.

 

Greed isn't reserved for businesses, it seems.

 

And i find it ironic, that you don't even mention the ridiculous joke that is the GTN. You're probably swiming in credits like so many rich folks.

 

And like i told you, for what you consider vanity, it's one of the main reasons i play this game. And even when you spend money in it to have zero luck getting what you're looking for, your argument is hey don't be greedy, bury even more money! Do you actually think it's logical or fair that after building and leveling a legacy since day 1, where you invested time and money, you simply have to leave it to start over ? I SPEND MORE THAN I HAVE ON THIS GAME. Don't you dare tell me that isn't enough. Not when even though it's not bioware's fault that my server died, it is their job to make me happy, so i keep on spending money on this game.

 

As for the greater good, i guess i still expect too much from people. Everybody complains on how the world and society is, but they only complain. Nobody is interested in being the change they want to see in the world.

 

I'm no preacher and have no interest in preaching, but there are a lot of people here that really need to open their eyes. There used to be a time when life sucked, you could turn on your computer and simply leave it all behind for a few hours... As it is today, not only do you pay 60 euros for a game that's incomplete (take battlefront for instance) and still have to spend MORE just to make it "bearable". Not to mention what is happening to the internet right now, but if u haven't noticed your freedoms are going away by now, there's simply no point posting anymore.

 

I gave this game everything. Time, money & most of all love. I just get the feeling it's like a one-way relationship, like so many in my life. The more you give, the more they spit on your face.

[therecanonlybeon]

Because you would be so happy to start over in an MMO.

 

You think i'm greedy when you don't have any ideia how much money i spent on cartel market since it came out. I find it unbelievable you people are defending that i should spend even MORE money on transfering my chars.

 

and spending money on cartel market stuff makes you not greedy how? lmao

 

transfering character takes time from them, you pay for it like any other service

[letitdie]

and spending money on cartel market stuff makes you not greedy how? lmao

 

transfering character takes time from them, you pay for it like any other service

 

Tired of repeating myself. Read my other posts for the reasons, or don't bother posting.

 

Besides, it's a service that is needed because some servers (including my original one) are dead. It's a service that should be free in this situation. And most of all, it's a small show of good will, that would do a big diference.

[Ratajack]

And i find it ironic, that you don't even mention the ridiculous joke that is the GTN. You're probably swiming in credits like so many rich folks.

 

And like i told you, for what you consider vanity, it's one of the main reasons i play this game. And even when you spend money in it to have zero luck getting what you're looking for, your argument is hey don't be greedy, bury even more money! Do you actually think it's logical or fair that after building and leveling a legacy since day 1, where you invested time and money, you simply have to leave it to start over ? I SPEND MORE THAN I HAVE ON THIS GAME. Don't you dare tell me that isn't enough. Not when even though it's not bioware's fault that my server died, it is their job to make me happy, so i keep on spending money on this game.

 

As for the greater good, i guess i still expect too much from people. Everybody complains on how the world and society is, but they only complain. Nobody is interested in being the change they want to see in the world.

 

I'm no preacher and have no interest in preaching, but there are a lot of people here that really need to open their eyes. There used to be a time when life sucked, you could turn on your computer and simply leave it all behind for a few hours... As it is today, not only do you pay 60 euros for a game that's incomplete (take battlefront for instance) and still have to spend MORE just to make it "bearable". Not to mention what is happening to the internet right now, but if u haven't noticed your freedoms are going away by now, there's simply no point posting anymore.

 

I gave this game everything. Time, money & most of all love. I just get the feeling it's like a one-way relationship, like so many in my life. The more you give, the more they spit on your face.

 

What about all those FREE CC's you got for subscribing and all that extra money you CLAIM (after all, how can anyone spend more than they have) you spent? Why did you not use any of those CC's to transfer your characters when the transfer cost was 90 CC?

 

You CHOSE to squander those CC's on other things, instead of transferring your characters.

 

 

"I spent my food money on these new Nike's because that is a major part of how I live my life. Now, I can't feed my family,. You have to give me food for my family for FREE."

 

BTW, no, I do not play the GTN. I am NOT swimming in credits.