Why so much hate towards chapter 16 ? ;3

[Audoucet]

The more of these chapters they drag out, the more I'm convinced that Peter Molyneux is secretly in charge over there. Promise after promise that choices matter, only to be met with a sense of 'is that it?' for the most part with the finished product.

 

That's why I stopped following Peter Molyneux's work, I enjoy Stefan Molyneux way more.

[jordanrogers]

As a Light side character, you didn't win any more than a Dark one. You just lost less for now, after the end of the extension. And it's a temporary loss, since I will either get it back in the next chapter, or you will lose it too, to start their new extension with a clean slate...

 

But the point is, you didn't win. You didn't accomplish anything. You didn't resolve anything.

 

so arcann is still ruling the empire and trying to kill us because of daddy issues? no? guess something was accomplished then even if it wasn't much.

[ZanyaCross]

You think it's amazing that my Dark V Sith Wrath just assumed that a piece of collapsed roof, killed the guy who survived a 1 mile fall ? His mother had the time to come and to rescue him, didn't I have the time to finish him ?

 

Um, yeah. A piece that looked like a good 5 tons, and was on fire, and while the whole ship was blowing up around them.

 

Obviously the first thing they teach you in hero and villain school is to check for a body, but realistically people? Anyone who wasn't a complete idiot would probably care more about getting out of the currently exploding ship than digging Arcaan out just to shove a lightsaber in his face.

Edited August 13, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[Audoucet]

Um, yeah. A piece that looked like a good 5 tons, and was on fire, and while the whole ship was blowing up around them.

 

Obviously the first thing they teach you in hero and villain school is to check for a body, but realistically people? Anyone who wasn't a complete idiot would probably care more about getting out of the currently exploding ship than digging Arcaan out just to shove a lightsaber in his face.

 

Yeah, it's not like I survived the exact same thing in chapter 2, when Baras collapsed a mountain on me. It's not like the guy survived a 1 mile fall the first time I beat him.

[Audoucet]

so arcann is still ruling the empire and trying to kill us because of daddy issues? no?

 

He isn't the Emperor anymore since chapter 15. And I have no idea if he is still trying to kill me or not. I don't know why he wouldn't, I just tried to kill his mother along with him.

[Chessack]

Obviously the first thing they teach you in hero and villain school is to check for a body, but realistically people? Anyone who wasn't a complete idiot would probably care more about getting out of the currently exploding ship than digging Arcaan out just to shove a lightsaber in his face.

 

Maybe for Dark Side you could, perhaps, make this argument. However, for a Light Sider, which is what the only character I am taking through this awful storyline happens to be, absolutelyshe would be 'a complete idiot' as you put it -- she would, without hesitation, at the risk of her own life, stay behind and try to save Arcann (because that is the choice I made -- offer him a chance at redemption rather than kill). Because my Jedi Consular is a HERO. She has been a hero all along.

 

This it he problem. The game puts you in a position to be a hero, and then drops the ball by making YOU run and giving Senya the hero role. And for Senya it's not even all that heroic since she's just a mommy saving her wittle baby boy. For YOU, as both a stranger to Arcann and the person he tried to kill repeatedly, saving him from that wreckage would be massively heroic, and for my Light Sider, 100% in character. So of course, BW doesn't let me do it.

 

I mean how hard would it be for them to have filmed a different ending for that cut scene, just putting my toon, instead of Senya's toon, in the animations to get him out of the rubble, and then have Senya come along, chase Vaylan off, and then say to the Outsider, 'Go... I'm his mother. I will make sure Arcann gets off this ship in one piece.'

 

But again, they didn't bother to do that, because they don't care about OUR story... only Arcann's (and Vaylan's).

[BlackFx]

But again, they didn't bother to do that, because they don't care about OUR story... only Arcann's (and Vaylan's).

 

This is exactly how I feel. TOR / Star Wars / Knights of the Old Republic no longer exists and they honestly believe somehow in all this ******** change from Lucas to Disney we are supposed to just drop all the history and say **** it! If you honestly have the balls to throw away the entire "legends" lore for some small group of **** smokes and cheer about it then you are sycophant who is only collecting a paycheck and a fool who follows him. There are TONS of things they could have made into an expansion, that fit into the established knowledge and EXPECTATIONS, for Star Wars. No, lets piss on all that has MADE Star Wars what it is today and re-write it into something that is an aberration to please an individual delusion of grandeur. Psychotic much?

Edited August 13, 2016 by BlackFx

[Gathererbyheart]

I normally play tank and don’t really solo play much on my healing smuggler, but I went through hell and back on my smuggler, just to get Corso back to her.

When I found out that I (and other classes) have to wait further 1-16 months to get their husband or wife back, I was sorely disappoint!

This and the multiple “F you” char’s that just stab you in the back in this last chapter... imo it's just a bad ending on an otherwise great tale. I know why they only released 1 chapter each paying month and I gladly payed each month, eventho with exams and summer holiday after, I could just have paused and returned, but I wanted to sub as a sign of support to this great game. Now I can’t even be online for a minute longer without I feel stabbed in the back by Bioware/EA and stupid for being this naive to think they would treat us subscribers well and not just squeeze us for all we are worth

[kellerkat]

Because I knew the game wouldn't let me kill him I had to make up a crappy little headcanon about why my Inquisitor didn't fire on his ship rather than be forced into another failure the hands of PLOT. KOFE doesn't even bother to hide the rails.

 

I don't really mind the Arcann stuff it's Koth that annoys me. He'd be long dead if the game would only let me kill him and I just know that next time he appears we're probably not going to be able to end him then either.

[Rashenari]

Personally?

 

The complete and utter disregard for player agency with choices given even within the very same episode. I saw my character strike down Arcann with a effin lightsaber, yet he's somehow still alive by the end of the episode and I can't help but wonder why they even gave me a dialogue option that said "Kill Arcann". I couldn't help but roll my eyes at what was happening when my character sat in that fighter, opened fire on the shuttle, and he still got away.

 

The fact they did this with a moment they've been hyping up the entire season is baffling.

 

The writers have no idea how to write a story with player agency that matter, the fact they failed at this even when stripping it down to one story for all 8 classes is maddening. The outlander is not the main character in the story. He/She is just a pawn of the writers.

[Chessack]

The complete and utter disregard for player agency with choices given even within the very same episode. I saw my character strike down Arcann with a effin lightsaber, yet he's somehow still alive by the end of the episode and I can't help but wonder why they even gave me a dialogue option that said "Kill Arcann". I couldn't help but roll my eyes at what was happening when my character sat in that fighter, opened fire on the shuttle, and he still got away.

 

This is a really key point, and bears quoting. The apologists for this awful story claim that the choices we are saying don't matter... will matter down the road. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. But you are 100% right, BW didn't even respect the choices they gave us within a chapter. If they knew we weren't going to be able to kill Arcann why even give us the choice? It's like they were trying to frustrate people.

 

The outlander is not the main character in the story. He/She is just a pawn of the writers.

 

Right. Arcann is the protagonist. The story is about him. Which is why the outlander's choices and actions are utterly irrelevant to the main plot.

[ZanyaCross]

Maybe for Dark Side you could, perhaps, make this argument. However, for a Light Sider, which is what the only character I am taking through this awful storyline happens to be, absolutelyshe would be 'a complete idiot' as you put it -- she would, without hesitation, at the risk of her own life, stay behind and try to save Arcann (because that is the choice I made -- offer him a chance at redemption rather than kill). Because my Jedi Consular is a HERO. She has been a hero all along.

 

Running through flames to "save" someone who might be a greasy, charred smear while a ship is blowing up around you is absolutely stupid no matter how selfless you RP as. In fact, it's probably more stupid if you are playing as a paragon, because you are placing your personal code of honor over the responsibilities you have as the Alliance Commander. You are endangering every single person counting on you and the only way you can justify it is that you are meta-gaming and counting on your plot-armor to carry you through, so please don't hide behind RP as an excuse, because if I was DMing a game and you tried that you would die, and die in a very painful and hilarious manner.

 

The ONLY person in the entire universe that insane action would make sense to is, you guessed it, a grieving mother desperately trying to save her child.

[DirdamLaer]

but that the episode all chapters in if echo esque precisely the latter was one of the ones I like but continued to bothering me so many allies in the alliance can if you only use that force you on the list of allies, few sometimes you have option to use the one you want and the high less interact with the style the old republic is much better the first true 3 chapters the fallen impery to been a big phallus history could be good but was wrong casth enabled you should I dejaro more freedom for new planets and left catch more misines not only those who ivam as before also find our allies in that way that I notices were instead of sending us to place a new part of the story that will take us to between mission and mission notified the planet and misines ... and merge in just 3 chapters like the movies

 

please use a translator the queno understands with what copy and paste into Spanish translators go from bad to worse there someone online who hates the English and Spanish and other languages (I bet yours too) to use the translator if I was not up to entendiro

 

 

..........................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

 

mas que el capitulo todos los capitulos en si, el echo esque precisamente este ultimo fue uno de los que mas me gusto pero siguio molestandome para que tantos aliados en la alianza si solo puedes usar a los que te obligan en la lista de aliados, pocas veces tienes opcion para usar el que quieras y para el colmo menos interactuar con el, el estilo the old republic es mucho mejor los primeros verdaderos 3 capitulos the fallen impery a sido un falo grande la historia podia ser buena pero estuvo mal echo deberias permitido dejado mas libertad por los nuevos planetas y dejado coger mas misines no solo a los que ivamos como antes tambien encontrar a nuestros aliados de esa forma que os avisos fueran en vez de mandarnos al lugar una nueva parte de la historia que nos llevaran hasta el entre mision y mision avisan del planeta y misiones... y fusionarlos en solo 3 capitulos como las peliculas

Edited August 14, 2016 by DirdamLaer

[Chessack]

Running through flames to "save" someone who might be a greasy, charred smear while a ship is blowing up around you is absolutely stupid no matter how selfless you RP as.

 

Except this is Star Wars, a swashbuckling fantasy in which, in every single movie, a selfless act like that *is* taken by the heroes. This is the universe in which Ewoks take down Scout Walkers. And lest we forget, Yoda made the exact same decision in episode 2, when he turned away from his fight with Dooku to save Obi-Wan and Anakin from the falling pillar. By doing that, Yoda allowed a known Sith Lord to escape to unleash his evil, including a war, on the galaxy. You going to say Yoda doesn't know what the Light Side choice is here? Yoda??

 

And then there is the game... and my character's personal history. This is a 100% LS Jedi who has spared her enemies against the advice of others every single chance she has had to do so. And guess what? It has always worked out for the best. And although this may have been a surprise to others, it was never any surprise to Li-Ya (my Consular), because she trusts in the Force and in the Light Side completely. It's not 'plot armor' she believes in, but the Force, and the fact that following the Light Side teachings will inevitably lead to a positive result. You say, if she stayed behind and died trying to save him, the Alliance loses its Commander and the Zakuul guys could thus win, so it is a 'stupid' choice. But Li-Ya would tell you, this would not happen unless it is the will of the Force, and that if it is, eventually good will come of it, perhaps in a way you cannot foresee. And this is not just blind faith -- she has 65 levels, 3 class story chapters, several expansion chapters, and how many world stories as PROOF that following the Light Side never leads to a bad end, but always to a good one. Follow the will of the Force, which to her, is the Light Side, and good will always come of it.

 

She does not fear death. Nor would she believe that her death would necessarily be an evil thing, provided she dies serving the Light. You may not agree with her, but this does not make her stupid, and again, she has plenty of evidence from 65 levels of game-play, that sparing her enemies, in the long run, leads to a net positive, not negative.

[Audoucet]

I was writing something, but I won't bother, you can't argue with someone who's taking as a personal insult the fact that we are disappointed. Edited August 14, 2016 by Audoucet

[Eanelinea]

Running through flames to "save" someone who might be a greasy, charred smear while a ship is blowing up around you is absolutely stupid no matter how selfless you RP as. In fact, it's probably more stupid if you are playing as a paragon, because you are placing your personal code of honor over the responsibilities you have as the Alliance Commander. You are endangering every single person counting on you and the only way you can justify it is that you are meta-gaming and counting on your plot-armor to carry you through, so please don't hide behind RP as an excuse, because if I was DMing a game and you tried that you would die, and die in a very painful and hilarious manner.

 

The ONLY person in the entire universe that insane action would make sense to is, you guessed it, a grieving mother desperately trying to save her child.

 

Exactly. My characters are all light side 5 rainbows and kitties characters. My legacy tree has it where when they were frozen the LI took their children and ran off to safety as I asked them to in chapter 1. My friends, associates and LIs are counting on me to return. I told Arcann to surrender and he didn't get a chance because a ton of crap fell on him. My girls aren't dumb enough to stick around and unbury him just to take him in. Senya did the whole running around an exploding ship and dragging him out because he is her SON. She even tried to get Vaylin back with her because she is her DAUGHTER. I let Senya and Arcann go safely because I DO think Arcann and yes even wacko Vaylin can be saved or redeemed. I personally in real life, found it difficult to not let them go unharmed because I'm a mother in real life. Yes I KNOW Senya's children did bad things, but they are still her children, so it's hard for Senya to just give up on them.

 

I still have my Gravestone and Koth. I still have Kaliyo and Jorgan (Jorgan gave his wife, my trooper a smooch!). I'm a little nervous Koth will count me letting them go as 'evil' stuff like he did chapter 3 and 10 (where he can leave if you blow up the spire) but so far, I've got everyone's respect.

[Audoucet]

Exactly. My characters are all light side 5 rainbows and kitties characters. My legacy tree has it where when they were frozen the LI took their children and ran off to safety as I asked them to in chapter 1. My friends, associates and LIs are counting on me to return. I told Arcann to surrender and he didn't get a chance because a ton of crap fell on him. My girls aren't dumb enough to stick around and unbury him just to take him in. Senya did the whole running around an exploding ship and dragging him out because he is her SON. She even tried to get Vaylin back with her because she is her DAUGHTER. I let Senya and Arcann go safely because I DO think Arcann and yes even wacko Vaylin can be saved or redeemed. I personally in real life, found it difficult to not let them go unharmed because I'm a mother in real life. Yes I KNOW Senya's children did bad things, but they are still her children, so it's hard for Senya to just give up on them.

 

I still have my Gravestone and Koth. I still have Kaliyo and Jorgan (Jorgan gave his wife, my trooper a smooch!). I'm a little nervous Koth will count me letting them go as 'evil' stuff like he did chapter 3 and 10 (where he can leave if you blow up the spire) but so far, I've got everyone's respect.

 

Good for your. You basically didn't do anything, in the end, though.

[BetterThanLife]

I achieved not one of my objectives in this story arc.

 

Not one.

 

Companions that betrayed me are alive.

The people that imprisoned me are alive.

The throne is in the hands of a character that betrayed me twice.

I still have not reacquired all my companions from the first 50 levels.

Even the "romance" hasn't gone anywhere.

 

The was no achievement. There was no victory.

 

Add to that, none of the story arc was designed, in an MMO, to be played cooperatively.

 

What a waste.

[ZanyaCross]

I let Senya and Arcann go safely because I DO think Arcann and yes even wacko Vaylin can be saved or redeemed. I personally in real life, found it difficult to not let them go unharmed because I'm a mother in real life. Yes I KNOW Senya's children did bad things, but they are still her children, so it's hard for Senya to just give up on them.

 

My DS Wrath, despite usually seeing anything that isn't Vette as a chance to unleash pent-up aggression, let Senya go because just as she was about to fire she thought of her father, a powerful sith lord who's approval she's never quite sure she has, and wondered if he would do the same thing for her in that situation (hint: he totally would).

 

A lot of people say the game didn't give you any meaningful choices, but in a lot of ways it gave you some of the most meaningful ones of all; the ones (within reason) that allowed you to define who you are as a character.

[Swingkittie]

As I said in another thread, having to use a shield to do the final phase of the Arcann fight kinda works for the tech classes, but I feel the Force classes should have been able to block the uber-Lightning with their Arcann-buster lightsabre (or dualsabre).

 

I was able to put up a force shield with my special weapon that absorbed and reflected attacks. Plus I was able to continue to fight with that shield up. I chose transcendence when I attuned it, which gave me a speed buff as well. In addition, you still have the other shield that blocks Arcann long enough for you to get in close and hit the punch button.

[Swingkittie]

I found KotFE to be disappointing as a whole. A "C" at best. You're choices don't really matter, both the story and it's conclusion are weak, and there's little to no relevance to your prior story and companions.

 

As a continuation of your old character, it's a massive failure. As it's own story, it's still mediocre at best. I just don't see anything in 16 that changes that.

 

I have to completely agree with your points. In vanilla chapters of this game, you have a lot of opportunity to form relationships with your companions. You have a lot of conversations on and off your ship, do side quests for them, develop the romance segment. You really get to know your companions and grow with them. That is one of the things I loved when I first started playing this game. Now you are given a choice to start a new romance with either Lana, Koth, or Theron, which I thought was pretty cool in the beginning. Then as each chapter in KOFTE progressed there was no separate interaction with them. No conversations, learning more about them, and seeing your relationship develop. You get one initial kiss when you start the romance, a couple of letters, and another kiss in chapter 16. I thought that was terribly weak and lazy on the part of Bioware. I would have rather just taken back my old romance companions when I reunite with them. What is the point in starting these new romances when you learn nothing about these people, don't interact on a romance level compared to your original love interest.

 

The other part that has bugged me is the choices matter bit. It would have been nice when it says "kill Satele" that I can actually fight her and even kill her. I wanted to see if Theron would find out and what he would do. Would he up and leave the Alliance or try and fight me? What if I romanced him and did this would he dump me? I really wanted to see that part of it and how it all played out. It was quite disappointing...

 

Also, how does Koth and his new crew sneak aboard the Gravestone with none of my Alliance members noticing? It makes it look like Tora and Theron are the only ones on board and distracted with the omnicannon, which if that was the case was also pretty stupid that I wouldn't have had a few more people. I know the majority stayed on the ground but come on, I have been assembling recruits and could have had a few more with me on the gravestone than just two people.

 

If choices matter so much then I should have been able to kill Arcann. Now I have to wait and see if I will have the choice to kill Koth, Senya, Scorpio, Arcann, and Vaylin and have it actually work. I somehow am not that optimistic. I also am not betting on the romances to improve much either.

[thebumpkin]

So many people were disappointed with the new chapter (16) but I for one, found it quite amazing and also some really good plot twists and romance ;3 Common people it was not that terrible lol (of course everyone has their opinion so im just putting mine here) Can't say that one part was kinda predicable

Senya not being able to kill her children, she is just too weak but again she is a mother, and trying to save them betraying the outlander in a way

Other than that some unexpected plot twists and good content I honestly loved Chapter 16, also the cut-scenes were amazingly done. Some love for BW people xD they put a lot of effort into this game ~

 

I didn't hate the chapter, I found it fun and exciting and have enjoyed KOTFE a lot and feel its got good replay value, but at the same time I also feel short changed by 16:

 

Its the epic rematch between me and Arcann and I win on... technicalities.... I beat Arcann by having a power up from Valkorion, a power up from Satele Shan and Darth Marr, a new gun/saber with a new attitude enchanted into it, and a Force Imbued shield that happened to be lying around.... Basically, my character showed up to the fight with brass knuckles, body armour, and a crash helmet, and Arcann was to his credit... bare handed...

 

It feels like a cheap victory really.

 

But you know I was willing to overlook that, most of my characters look to the future and try and see the big picture, how we beat this madman wasn't important, what is important is we have won. So the [Kill Arcann] option appears which... EVERY single time prior to this moment, has 100% resulted in the death of the person named. Only this time, it doesn't. That is very unfair in the context.

 

Then, we get another chance to destroy Arcann, this time, it doesn't show [Kill], so I wondered about this... and Senya got away which I kind of expected to happen since for the first time the [kill] indicator did not result in death. Koth depending on your choices either steals the gravestone or not...

 

As far as victory goes... its a speck of a victory at best. Zakuul still has its fleet, Zakuul still has its skytroopers, Zakuul still has dominion over the Galaxy, and a member of Valkorion's family still rules and this is a particularly batty one. Really the Alliance has accomplished VERY little, the most noteworthy thing the Outlander has managed to do, was to basically rob Zakuul blind, and that was all Gault's idea and plan anyway. Arcann got away, Senya has left you, SCORPIO knows probably nearly everything about you, Koth hijacked the gravestone (dark side choices), and the final ignominy; Valkorion returns after its all said and done... saying "You are ready."

 

Ready for what exactly? More treachery from your supposed allies? More mouthy Zakuulans to drive us up the wall?

 

I know the story is not finished yet and we need KOTEE, but, I think if we'd at least got the chance to kill Arcann, when actually given the option to kill him a lot of people would be much happier.

[Slowpokeking]

My DS Wrath, despite usually seeing anything that isn't Vette as a chance to unleash pent-up aggression, let Senya go because just as she was about to fire she thought of her father, a powerful sith lord who's approval she's never quite sure she has, and wondered if he would do the same thing for her in that situation (hint: he totally would).

 

A lot of people say the game didn't give you any meaningful choices, but in a lot of ways it gave you some of the most meaningful ones of all; the ones (within reason) that allowed you to define who you are as a character.

 

I'm angry at Senya refuse to go to me, never told me about any of her plan, she didn't trust me first, why should I trust her at all?

[Slowpokeking]

Exactly. My characters are all light side 5 rainbows and kitties characters. My legacy tree has it where when they were frozen the LI took their children and ran off to safety as I asked them to in chapter 1. My friends, associates and LIs are counting on me to return. I told Arcann to surrender and he didn't get a chance because a ton of crap fell on him. My girls aren't dumb enough to stick around and unbury him just to take him in. Senya did the whole running around an exploding ship and dragging him out because he is her SON. She even tried to get Vaylin back with her because she is her DAUGHTER. I let Senya and Arcann go safely because I DO think Arcann and yes even wacko Vaylin can be saved or redeemed. I personally in real life, found it difficult to not let them go unharmed because I'm a mother in real life. Yes I KNOW Senya's children did bad things, but they are still her children, so it's hard for Senya to just give up on them.

 

I still have my Gravestone and Koth. I still have Kaliyo and Jorgan (Jorgan gave his wife, my trooper a smooch!). I'm a little nervous Koth will count me letting them go as 'evil' stuff like he did chapter 3 and 10 (where he can leave if you blow up the spire) but so far, I've got everyone's respect.

 

But she didn't trust me at all, when I trusted her. I openly asked her to bring Arcann to me, she refused to do so. She didn't trust me, why should I trust her at all?

 

If you keep Arcann, he would mostly stab on your back, just like he did against his father. He was totally willing to kill his own brother, what makes you think he wouldn't do the same to you. Still, I did ask Arcann to work together against his father, but he said no and continue to fight. He is such a moronic and untrustworthy villain, and he openly refused my offer, I don't see a reason to keep him alive at all.

 

Senya is his mother, but I'm not, and I shouldn't think of that way as the Alliance's commander. Even if we go by the side of morality, how many mother had lost their children because of Arcann's tyranny? How many children had lost their mother because of Arcann's tyranny? Why did you look upon one mother's feeling but ignore thousands, maybe even millions of other mothers' feeling?

Edited August 14, 2016 by Slowpokeking

[Slowpokeking]

What Senya was doing, was like some young guy committed mass murder, and their mother helped him to escape the police. Is it understandable? Yes. Is it right? NO.