Thank you BioWare for the best expansion yet.

[Tsetso]

Of course. Look at the forums during the first three months of this game's life. Read James Ohlen's address to the entire community specifically stating BioWare underestimated how much content players could consume and it would take some time before new content was made. The answers aren't hard to find. I suppose I take it for granted because I was actually here and saw how this MMO unraveled shortly after its release. Many of you probably were not here at release or in closed beta, so of course you'd be skeptical by my remarks and that's perfectly fine.

 

You can "begin to think" what you want, but every point I have made was reasoned and based on evidence straight from the game, the developers, and this website.

 

You still refuse to post any fact - link to an interview, direct quote from any representative of BW or EA. At this point it's obvious you can't prove anything you claim.

/leavethread

[Aowin]

...

 

In order to understand why BioWare did what it did, you need to have a little background of the time this game was being developed. KotOR 1 was a critically-acclaimed and a huge financial success for BioWare, Microsoft, and LucasArts in 2003. It made BioWare into a superstar game studio and it was only a matter of time before LucasArts would want to turn KotOR from just a single player RPG into an MMORPG.

 

SWTOR officially started game development in 2006 with only a handful of developers: James Ohlen, Daniel Erickson, and a few others. In case you did not know this, BioWare had never made an MMO before. What BioWare did know is it wanted to bring storytelling to the MMO genre. You can see in many of BioWare's pre-release videos where it focuses on the three pillars of an MMO: combat, progression, and exploration. SWTOR was all about adding that fourth pillar to the MMO scheme: story.

 

SWTOR costed an estimated $150 million to create, easily becoming the most expensive MMO to ever be developed (even now). Much of this budget was dedicated to the large Voice Over cast the game had to hire for three major languages. At the time (and probably still now) SWTOR had more voiced dialogue at launch than any entertainment product ever produced. From the very beginning of development towards the months before release it was the eight class stories, which was an ambitious development goal, that BioWare was focused on.

 

As I said, there were very few Flashpoints in closed beta right before the final few months of testing: The Esseles/THe Black Talon, Taral V/Boarding Party, Maelstrom Prison/The Foundry, and Directive 7. The rest of the flashpoints literally came online maybe two months before launch if that. Eternity Vault was completely broken in closed beta and was still broken at launch. Expertise and many other stats were broken in PvP and took many months post-launch to resolve. BioWare wouldn't find out that Ilum World PvP was unplayable until after launch due to not stress testing it in closed beta with enough players.

 

It's not that BioWare did not care about the "MMO staples." Those features were just never the focus of this game. BioWare wanted to make sure SWTOR did have those more traditional features, but again the sheer ambition of the eight class stories (even some aspects of those were bugged after launch such as the Jedi Knight final boss fight) made it difficult for BioWare to get those other features done or properly tested. Story was always the focus with endgame being the secondary, optional feature. In fairness, a huge chunk of that initial 1.1 million subscriber base were diehard BioWare/KotOR 1 fans that were just here for the story.

 

BioWare was just attempting to cater to too many different groups of players: their own long-time RPG fans and the MMO community. It was inevitable the game was going to falter somewhere just because of how large it was. It ended up breaking under the pressure with the features BioWare was least concerned about. SWTOR has always had a bit of an identity crisis with what it wants to be, but it looks like BioWare is going back to what the roots of the game originally were.

[phalczen]

We have side quests. They are called Alliance Alerts and the entire Alliance system in general. That may not be the kind of content you specifically want, but KotFE isn't just doing linear chapters and nothing else.

 

Building your alliance may be content, but it is clearly meaningless in terms of the ultimate outcome. I did every single alliance alert with my main just to build my alliance and got all the specialists to influence rank 20, versus the entire KOTFE run I did with a DvL toon for the DvL achievement. The outcome is the same, with the only difference being the background conversations the NPC's make as you walk by them in the base.

 

Who are you trying to fool exactly? Yourself? They've been telling a story SINCE launch...EVERY expansion has been story centric. KOTFE was the first one that gave up on everything else, but story...and it was the most linear story as well.

 

ROTHC was story centric. Czerka was story centric. Oricon was story centric. Foraged Alliances was 100% story centric. Ziost was 100% story. SoR was story centric...where do you get this idea that story hasn't been been the focus all along? It clearly has been...and previous stories were far better and faction specific. Know what all of those updates had that KOTFE didn't? Group and repeatable content.

 

TUX is right, in many ways, with this post. And with this one:

 

It reminded me of the ending of Chapter 9. Give victory speech, alliance is building, people are joining us, word is spreading and our goal is the Eternal Throne...

 

Which isn't to say that the storytelling in KOTFE is or isn't better than the rest of the game. KeyboardNinja said it best when he wrote:

 

"Story is flavor, content is substance." You can eat a plate of cilantro, very flavorful and fragrant, but you won't feel full. You can eat a plate of grilled chicken, and you will feel full and will be sustained, even if it isn't flavorful.

 

I guess the question at hand is which is the cilantro and which is the chicken. As I've said before, and, in fact, as Ben Irving acknowledged in his interview in this week's episode of Bad Feeling Podcast, they were trying to appeal to three different audiences at launch:

 

1.) Star Wars fans

2.) MMORPG fans

3.) Bioware cinematic story telling fans

 

And in many ways they failed to maintain the populations of all three. Mr. Irving, in my opinion, clearly admits that one of the motivations for streamlining the start at 60 experience was to capture some of the post-Force Awakens hype (see group #1 above).

 

But the people directly courted with this expansion appear to be those who were looking for KOTOR 3/"The spiritual successor to KOTOR." For those people, the substance, the protein, is the story. It doesn't matter how many forum posters tell them otherwise. For others, most notably group #2 above, the substance/protein of the menu is the repeatable content. It doesn't have to be dailies, but it almost certainly requires Warzones and Operations. No one will ever convince them otherwise.

 

But if you listen to Mr. Irving's interview on BFP, he says that the telemetry indicated the majority of players hadn't completed all the group content the game had to offer by level 60. In light of that, I'm beginning to think about KOTFE as a re-launch of the game. Consider if SWTOR had launched with 20+ flashpoints, nine operations, seven warzone game modes (two modes of which have 2-4 variations), plus all the hours of cinematic story content. Think about the game coming in as a brand new player and all the stuff you'd have available to do.

 

The problem is, when you radically re-design the game during live play, or you spend a year catering to a specific audience, you end up alienating a lot of veterans. SWTOR needs to find a way throw the vets a bone while its trying to recruit new blood or bring the old blood back. Because if you lose enough vets, the people at the top who write the guides on Dulfy, educate players on how to pvp, etc, these resources will disappear, and it will take time to replace them. Hayete and his guild have really stepped up since Zorz left, in terms of creating instructional videos, and Bant with his theorycrafting, but I'd bet 75% of the authors of the current 4.0 guides on Dulfy have left the game, on both the pve and pvp side. I'd love to proven wrong about that, but if the attrition of the raiding community on Harbinger is any indication of the overall game, Hayete and his team may be the only ones left willing to rebuild the community resources when the expansion comes around with its new co-op content.

[Aowin]

You still refuse to post any fact - link to an interview, direct quote from any representative of BW or EA. At this point it's obvious you can't prove anything you claim.

/leavethread

 

Why would I do the work for you when you can easily go to Google and type in a few key search words? I've given you names of key developers and you can even watch the first Guild Community Summit on YouTube for a lot of this evidence. This information isn't hidden. Believe what you want. I'm not here to convince you.

[Aowin]

...

 

Well this is really the issue at hand and what I've articulated time and time again. SWTOR is not just another MMO. It has always attempted to try and cater to multiple audiences. I'd put that list in a slightly different order though: 1) BioWare fans; 2) MMO fans; 3) Star Wars fans.

 

Arguably, it wouldn't be hard to please the third category as those folks are only here for the setting and likely to live out their fantasy as Luke Skywalker or Han Solo. It's the first two groups that are far harder to please because both couldn't be farther apart in what they want and prioritize.

 

I just happen to be in all three categories. I'm a long-time BioWare fan since KotOR 1 released in 2003. I'm a long-time MMO fan with Star Wars Galaxies being my favorite MMO of all time. I'm also just a huge Star Wars fan and love all of the films (even the prequels have their moments).

 

But again, it was clear during pre-release that BioWare was largely focused on making that true successor to KotOR 2. All of their videos focused on the importance of story and choice. Every writer for every class story was heavily broadcasted talking about their respective stories and how everybody could live out eight unique perspectives in the Star Wars universe.

 

After launch and with two-thirds of the community leaving after completing that story (I'd bet money many of them were just KotOR fans and not MMO players), BioWare was in a content drought with nothing coming soon. Since launch, BioWare has experimented trying to figure out what is the best way to appeal to all of those groups. RotHC may have offered more of that traditional MMO content, but it was light on the storytelling. SoR tried to rectify RotHC's story inadequacies, but it faltered on the traditional MMO content. Now, BioWare seems to be focusing on those fans they largely tried to appeal to when SWTOR first released with KotFE.

 

Just based on the fact that KotET is a reality, BioWare seems to believe focusing on the BioWare fans is leading to better results in terms of the profitability for the game. Whether that remains the case or not is yet to be seen, but BioWare has metrics in place and they know what content players are consuming and what they are not. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they are holding off on doing a lot more group content if only a small portion of the community is really investing time in it. I can only speak for myself, but I haven't cared about progression raiding, or even raiding, at all since probably Scum and Villainy. SWTOR's raiding isn't anything special and I know from my own guild to plenty of others who just stopped caring about operations entirely.

[Keta]

I have been a member of the site since 2008 when it was officially announced. I was a closed beta tester far before the game launched ...

 

I can verify much of what Aowin posted. I was in closed beta starting on day 1. His (?) recollection is pretty accurate.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Keta

[Codedrago]

Why would I do the work for you when you can easily go to Google and type in a few key search words?

 

Aaaaaand your argument has alreaday failed. Sriously, I may agree, but if you actually want people to take your argment seriously you have to back it up. Which means you find the evidence. Why should they have to find the evidence when you're the one trying to convince them? This is almost on the same level of ''I don't have to prove my statement, you have to dispove it!"

[Aowin]

I can verify much of what Aowin posted. I was in closed beta starting on day 1. His (?) recollection is pretty accurate.

 

I am a male and I'm glad to see there are other closed beta testers still playing the game. I even have my beta tester designation on my forum profile page under biography if people aren't convinced. I primarily played on the Revan server, which was a PvP server in closed beta.

 

I'm just trying to give folks a sense of what BioWare's priorities were and what content it clearly felt was more crucial to this game's success. I'm not suggesting story is what BioWare should solely focus on, but people are kidding themselves if they don't recognize it's incredibly important to SWTOR and separates it from every other MMO on the market. I'm not making this stuff up.

[DenariusJay]

It reminded me of the ending of Chapter 9. Give victory speech, alliance is building, people are joining us, word is spreading and our goal is the Eternal Throne...

 

Exactly! I literally felt like the entire KOTFE was just a giant circle in story telling... you end up right where you were at the end of chapter 9, only this time we are going up against an angsty chick with her side kick robo-ho!

 

O Boi ! I can't wait, GET HYPED!

Edited August 12, 2016 by DenariusJay

[DarthMaulUK]

According to James Ohlen, SWTOR is an MMO. Clearly he hasn't played his own game.

 

After watching the EA Star Wars thing during celebration, there's poor James taking credit for Biowares hard work - pre EA and trying to drum up business for this awful attempt at 'net flix' in gaming. After saying just how important the single player experience is/was, Amy - who is working on the unannounced SW game - says how important group work is and that in Star Wars, small groups work together and against the odds.

 

It's amusing to watch.

 

I only made it to Chapter 9 x2 as I just couldn't force myself to spend 30 minutes watching cut scenes, followed by the pointless fetch quests or companion hunt or worse - endless Sky troopers grouped in 3's (still feel heroic?!!) who are as sharp as a bag of wet hair.

 

The fact 95% of the servers are all but dead confirms this was a huge mistake and its time Bioware got off their backside and either delivered a proper expansion or just shut the game down. Just look at WoW Legion. THAT'S an expansion worthy of a subscription - live in game events with the Invasions (same as in Rift, or in SWG back in 2003!!!)

 

This game needs Rogue One, heroic content where you can group with friends and defend a city, or obtain plans for the Sith's secret weapon - stuff with purpose and meaning.

 

Over the past 3 years, the standards have hit rock bottom, the Cartel Market offers no value - just endless reskinned crap or armour designed by the 3 blind mice.

 

For those foolish enough to play and pay for Kotfe, do you really think 30-60 minutes tops a month x7 was value for money? $70 for an expansion with zero replay value. Bargain.

[Aowin]

...

 

SWTOR is an MMO. It's just one that has always prioritized story (for the most part) over everything else. With KotFE, BioWare seems to be going head-first into a true story-driven experience. I think that's smart as many MMOs have failed trying to copy WoW, which is exactly what you are suggesting.

 

Also, I wouldn't compare SWG to WoW, as one was a sand box and the other is what made the theme park philosophy in MMOs a standard. The fact that people can get excited about WoW's new expansion when features such as live events were in SWG 13 years ago is pretty laughable and embarrassing.

 

It's also worth mentioning that MMOs were NOT always about raiding and repeatables. Those trends largely started because of Everquest and more so WoW. Quite a few MMO players, including myself, did not like WoW's approach to MMO development and still don't like it.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Aowin

[gabigool]

And with one post you have completely discredited any point you ever made. Instead of even trying to refute my points, you resort to unwarranted insults and a condescending tone showing your true colors.

 

Pretty sure I tackled your points directly.

 

I was following SWTOR as far back as 2006 when it was just a rumor. I have been a member of the site since 2008 when it was officially announced. I was a closed beta tester far before the game launched. I think I know a bit more than you do about what BioWare was focusing on with this game because I was testing it for them. Operations were never the focus. Flashpoints were never the focus. Warzones were never the focus. It was always story. Why do you think it took BioWare so long to show any of those other features? For one, because every other MMO does it. Secondly, because those MMO staples were optional features that were implemented in the game right before launch as the story was the centerpiece.

 

You probably don't know this, but it was the class stories that were tested the most during closed beta. Most of the beta servers were for testing the story. There was ONE server for level 50 characters to do endgame content, and EV was completely broken so it was pretty hard to test. The same was the case with Ilum Open World. A very small amount of players actually tested that content in closed beta because BioWare did not focus on it. That's the reason BioWare was surprised HeroEngine could not support more than 20 players on the screen and it's why Ilum World PvP was removed post-release. You can hear Gabe Amatangelo talk about this very fact during the first Guild Community Summit in March of 2012 (find it on YouTube), when he was still the lead PvP/Endgame Designer.

 

The only MMO feature that was really tested in closed beta was warzones, and expertise was also broken. There were only four flashpoints in closed beta up until almost the launch of the game. That's when Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, etc. were all added at the last moment and most of them were broken. The content that you continue to claim was the reason most people were here was the last to be done because it was never BioWare's priority and it never implied it was.

 

You aren't even staying on point.

 

At launch this studio very clearly claimed this game was going to be a story-driven MMO. It was going to have PvP. It was going to have Flashpoints. Operations.

 

Period.

 

I am not disputing they put little to no focus on those areas, pre-launch or since. So I do not understand why you're trying to flash your cred. I think they've done a terrible job supporting those aspects of the game. Pretty sure I've said that. Repeatedly.

 

However this was most certainly not sold as a game where those aspects of the game would not be supported. And certainly, during the first year of live, the studio went out of their way to emphasize the opposite.

 

You are posting as if this game was not marketed as featuring this content and that's simply not accurate.

 

 

.... BECAUSE they beat the class story they were interested in and left.

 

This is an opinion. I have a different opinion, and have framed it as such. I do not believe the actions of the studio, specifically the content they chose to hype/release post-launch supports your opinion, but rather mine.

 

You are welcome to disagree with my opinion. But you are using your opinion as factual evidence.

 

 

Certainly, not having any substantial endgame content is the reason some folks left. However, it was the largely the fact that BioWare confirmed new class story content wasn't coming anytime soon that a majority of people quit.

 

Again, same response as above.

 

 

You assume most of those 700,000 subscribers were MMO gamers.

 

I believe it is more likely yes, considering there was a dearth of MMO-content options available here yet plenty of "Bioware Storytelling" left unconsumed. I haven't assumed anything. I do not know.

 

My point is that you do not either.

 

You seem to forget that SWTOR was the fastest growing MMO to date with over 1.1 million subscribers within its first month, and a large part of that was the single player RPG KotOR fans coming to play what was labeled by BioWare as "KotOR 3-9." This is not an opinion. This is fact.

 

A large part of it was SWG players. A large part of it was MMO players. A large part of it was Star Wars fans.

 

And yes a lot were single player Kotor fans coming to play Kotor 3-9. Except they didn't stick around for "4-9". I find that surprising. Highly so. To the point that I flat out don't buy that this group made up any meaningful part of the exodus statistics. Just my opinion. But I am basing it on what I see and things that make sense. Not rationalization.

 

If you can't be respectful about this I merely won't respond to you again.

 

Not sure where I flung anything at you. I simply disagree with you. Strongly.

[DarthMaulUK]

 

Also, I wouldn't compare SWG to WoW, .

 

I wasn't. I was comparing SWG - which had many key game elements such as live events back in 2003 to SWTOR, which has none.

 

I haven't played wow for almost 5 years but the changes to pvp are very appealing and much more fun that SWTOR - which is a shame but PvP is now on life support thanks to the endless bad decisions made over the past 4 years.

[myrdinn]

SWTOR is an MMO. It's just one that has always prioritized story (for the most part) over everything else. With KotFE, BioWare seems to be going head-first into a true story-driven experience. I think that's smart as many MMOs have failed trying to copy WoW, which is exactly what you are suggesting.

 

Also, I wouldn't compare SWG to WoW, as one was a sand box and the other is what made the theme park philosophy in MMOs a standard. The fact that people can get excited about WoW's new expansion when features such as live events were in SWG 13 years ago is pretty laughable and embarrassing.

 

It's also worth mentioning that MMOs were NOT always about raiding and repeatables. Those trends largely started because of Everquest and more so WoW. Quite a few MMO players, including myself, did not like WoW's approach to MMO development and still don't like it.

 

Pretty much this, and to all of Aowin's posts.

 

Heh; I remember running Hutta ad nauseum during one of the beta runs... those intro worlds (up to the capitols) were pretty solidly tested. I don't remember a single FP (outside of Esseles and Black Talon... I even remember thinking "good, hate organizing raids"). And, I came from SWG/CoH (primarily).

[Aowin]

Pretty much this, and to all of Aowin's posts.

 

Heh; I remember running Hutta ad nauseum during one of the beta runs... those intro worlds (up to the capitols) were pretty solidly tested. I don't remember a single FP (outside of Esseles and Black Talon... I even remember thinking "good, hate organizing raids"). And, I came from SWG/CoH (primarily).

 

Yep. It was the starter planets and the Capital Worlds that were tested the most in closed beta. Part of the issue is BioWare would keep resetting the servers and make us start over again because they wanted the early content to be incredibly polished. Thus, the later content and especially the endgame was beyond buggy, broken, and not ready for release.

 

Back in closed beta, Esseles and Black Talon were 4-man flashpoints and Carrick Station didn't even exist yet. BioWare just had a small, little station with a shuttle to Coruscant and a instance to Esseles.

 

I also came from SWG. In that game I had the top PvP rebel guild on Shadowfire that was voted the best in our faction. I was voted best LSJ and melee player two years in a row on the forums. I ran multiple and frequent PUG groups through all the raids (AM, IG, TK, ISD, EK, Hoth). I swear I helped half the server get their 5-piece jewelry sets. I even ran the largest RP community on my server with over 50+ active members participating weekly via Storyteller and Chronicler.

 

I didn't like how SWTOR lacked so much of the depth and complexity of SWG, which was a sand box. But, I came to the conclusion right away that SWTOR was going to excel at its story content and not it's mediocre MMO content that pales in comparison to other MMOs.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Aowin

[Aowin]

...

 

Honestly, my biggest issue with PvP is a lack of open world PvP. Warzones and arenas are okay, but those systems get tedious and redundant after a while. Open World PvP is dynamic and much more interesting as it's completely player-driven. That is why I actually loved Ilum and I enjoyed it far more than I ever did warzones.

 

ESO is a perfect example of a new MMO that has a great PvP system (it's just not supported very well by the devs). AvA is that perfect culmination of open world PvP with objectives, strategy, and replay value. I would love for BioWare to try and do something similar to that instead of just making another warzone map or another arena map.

 

Unfortunately, the issue is BioWare's version of the HeroEngine cannot render a high concentration of characters without significant drops in performance. Ilum was a slideshow and BioWare realized it would never be able to accommodate such large-scale PvP in SWTOR. Thus, we don't have any open world PvP really other than just being able to go to a PvP instance and hoping someone is there.

[Ippotamus]

AOE, loot, cutscene (daddy issues).

Turn left, turn right..

AOE, loot, cutscene (mommy issues).

Turn right, turn left, push the button.

 

Boss fight!

Cutscene.

Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, punch.

 

You know you want more.

[DenariusJay]

AOE, loot, cutscene (daddy issues).

Turn left, turn right..

AOE, loot, cutscene (mommy issues).

Turn right, turn left, push the button.

 

Boss fight!

Cutscene.

Walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, walk, punch.

 

You know you want more.

 

 

Oh man, I'm hyped... I wonder where else skytroopers can fly in from? Underwater? From space? While in a ship? Stay tuned, season 2 will answer those gripping questions!

[Aowin]

Oh man, I'm hyped... I wonder where else skytroopers can fly in from? Underwater? From space? While in a ship? Stay tuned, season 2 will answer those gripping questions!

 

Jokes aside, BioWare gave us the impression during the recent producer stream that it has made A LOT of changes to KOTET based on feedback from KOTFE. Charles Boyd without explicitly stating it suggested very strongly that we would see a lot of our choices have major consequences in this next expansion. We also saw the introduction of much better mechanics and level design with Chapter 16, so I'm confident BioWare won't revert back to the less than stellar "kill some trash mob sky troopers and get to the next point." We will know soon enough.

[Ippotamus]

Choices matter!

It looks good on a bumper sticker and it is something simple to rally around.

But it is not going to save what is wrong with the direction SWTOR has taken.

The only thing that can save this ... thing ... is if they find a way to port this to smartphone.

That is where this level of "game play" and depth of mechanics belongs. Finger swiping, zombie looking, mob thinking gaggle of wet bread eating surface pond lurkers. Which does not look good on a bumper sticker at all.

[Shwarzchild]

It's interesting people are bringing beta into things thinking that it proves anything. It only means that swtor started at X, and was forced to evolve into Y and now Z. If I recall correctly, a determining factor in players leaving by the masses after release was a lack of end game. It was shown then that alone story does not carry this product. Maybe it shows it differently now. I don't know. I don't pay attention to metrics anymore. Secondarily, Ben Irvin just came out on Bad Feeling (which was a great interview btw if anyone hasn't listened to it yet in its entirety) admitting that repeatable content and repeatable group content was a thing they absolutely had to improve upon.

 

So while claiming this return to story is or is not a good thing, it seems as if there are facts that say end game is potentially equally as important in maintaining a healthy game population thus leaving portions of it neglected (whether its GSF, PvP, Operations, Flashpoints, etc.) is a dangerous tactic.

[Aowin]

...

 

This was a grand experiment and BioWare has learned a lot from it. I'm sure these expansions only continue to improve with time and experience. The mechanics between Chapter X and Chapter XVI, alone, improved considerably. I'm looking forward to the HK Bonus Chapter and I can't wait to see how feedback has helped to inform and improve KOTET.

[Keta]

This was a grand experiment and BioWare has learned a lot from it. I'm sure these expansions only continue to improve with time and experience. The mechanics between Chapter X and Chapter XVI, alone, improved considerably. I'm looking forward to the HK Bonus Chapter and I can't wait to see how feedback has helped to inform and improve KOTET.

 

I hope you're right. I personally have lost a lot of faith in their ability to design much of anything in this game. Season 2 will have to grip and provide not only a logically developed story but resolve questions and avoid the "because it's a plot device" feeling.

[Aowin]

It's interesting people are bringing beta into things thinking that it proves anything. It only means that swtor started at X, and was forced to evolve into Y and now Z. If I recall correctly, a determining factor in players leaving by the masses after release was a lack of end game. It was shown then that alone story does not carry this product. Maybe it shows it differently now. I don't know. I don't pay attention to metrics anymore. Secondarily, Ben Irvin just came out on Bad Feeling (which was a great interview btw if anyone hasn't listened to it yet in its entirety) admitting that repeatable content and repeatable group content was a thing they absolutely had to improve upon.

 

So while claiming this return to story is or is not a good thing, it seems as if there are facts that say end game is potentially equally as important in maintaining a healthy game population thus leaving portions of it neglected (whether its GSF, PvP, Operations, Flashpoints, etc.) is a dangerous tactic.

 

It proves a lot, actually. Many have been claiming BioWare is just another MMO where the focus was on the endgame and not the story. This is simply not true based on personal experience of beta testing the game and BioWare's pre-launch marketing of the game from October 2008 to December 2011.

 

Whoever said players left because of a lack of endgame? Did you ever consider many left because their stories ended? Certainly some were disappointed by a lack of endgame content, but you have to remember everybody playing at launch was not an MMO fan. In fact, SWTOR had the fastest growing MMO player base to date largely because the game was bringing in fans who were not traditionally MMO players.

 

I know quite a few players who merely purchased SWTOR just to play a class story or two that they were interested in and did not resubscribe. Not everybody was interested in operations, flashpoints, or PvP, which most folks knew next to nothing about those features before launch. It's difficult to understand exactly what SWTOR is if you don't understand the kinds of gamers it was appealing to initially.

 

Interviews are just that: interviews. They are PR stunts as a way of trying to appeal and improve community relations. Ben Irvin represents the SWTOR team, so of course he'll say BioWare needs to improve on group content just because a vocal minority of the community keeps bringing it up on the forums and social media. That doesn't necessarily mean those words will become action. It doesn't even necessarily mean that those features are "equally . . . important" in the eyes of BioWare. Again, metrics know the true answer and a few angry posters on the forums do not.

 

In truth, I think what he was likely alluding to more than anything else is a need to keep players occupied better between chapter releases. That doesn't necessarily mean ops or flashpoints. It could mean a variety of things from more Alliance alerts and content, or just including basic QoL updates. We just don't know and to speculate really won't get us far. I just think it's a fool's errand to believe BioWare will pivot back to "raids and fp content" while lessening on the story as KOTET already refutes that argument.

 

We'll see what BioWare does but it seems as if SWTOR is going a new direction and BioWare isn''t going to compromise on it.

[Aowin]

I hope you're right. I personally have lost a lot of faith in their ability to design much of anything in this game. Season 2 will have to grip and provide not only a logically developed story but resolve questions and avoid the "because it's a plot device" feeling.

 

Based on comments made during the last producer live stream just yesterday, I'm optimistic about what KOTET will do to improve upon the faults of KOTFE.

 

I hope we do start seeing our choices have impact and things will hopefully stop happening just because it's necessary to move the plot forward. I like to think of KOTFE as just the introduction to the setting and characters and hopefully KOTET will be the meat to much of our complaints with its predecessor. Only time will tell but I think we'll be in for a treat.