Thank you BioWare for the best expansion yet.

[rg_campbell]

I'll explain the timeline as your events are a bit out of order.

 

When Darth Marr is talking about the Sith Emperor being "distracted" it's after the Treaty of Coruscant is signed. If you remember, SWTOR takes place 30 years after the signing of that treaty. The Sith Emperor is mysteriously gone during this time period and we never had an explanation. Now we know he was busy crafting the Eternal Empire during that 30 year period.

 

As far as why Vitiate is on Yavin IV, that is because he was defeated by the Jedi Knight at the end of Chapter 3. His body was destroyed and he was waiting to gain enough strength to find a better host or another means of survival. What really doesn't make sense is how Vitiate goes from being this world devourer in the Knight story to the present while also simultaneously being a just yet calculating ruler in Zakuul. It's not until after Vitiate devours Ziost that he is "immortal" and no longer needs to consume the galaxy.

 

Well, truth be told the Force has never truly been delved into by the films. All we know is that the "Light side" is a natural understanding of the Force and the "Dark Side" is unnatural and leads to corruption. George Lucas, himself, suggested the Dark Side is a cancer that slowly destroys the user. Either way, in the EU (now defunct) and in KotOR 2 we have seen a greater knowledge of the Force beyond just Jedi and Sith. Even Jolee Bindo in KotOR 1 is a "gray Jedi," meaning he is still a follower of the Light but does not share the views of the Jedi Order.

 

RotHC and SoR were just trash to me. Makeb was just boring. Dread masters was raid content and had been relevant in the story since Karagga's Palace. Revan's character was completely destroyed by SoR. I'm not sure what canon you followed, but it didn't follow Revan's character at all. The Revan from KotOR 1, 2 and even the Revan book would not have been reduced to what we had in SoR. That expansion was nothing more than a cash grab off what was an amazing character.

 

KotFE is certainly not perfect, but I think it has potential going forward to make the best storytelling this MMO has ever had. I'm optimistic about the future as I was pleased with what BioWare has started.

 

I think I have events nailed on, Scourge plans to betray Vitiate to Knight as he knows the true goal is the annihilation of all life in galaxy. Now I accept that when The Treaty of Coruscant is signed The Emperor retreats to isolation and leaves The Dark Council in charge. Now this is where things get tricky.

 

We're led to believe he goes to Zakuul and fathers 3 children. However the Warrior kills 'The Voice' on Voss and then The Knight kills a version of Vitiate on DK, this leads to SoR, Yavin Temple and Ziost. So my argument is the canon they've developed for themselves in game. The answers to these questions are never given. Vitiate is already immortal thanks to the Sith magic and destruction of Nathema. So he has no reason to wipe out Ziost, it would go against the change of character he must have had during his time on Zakuul.

[Aowin]

...

 

Don't forget Arcann did have five planets bombarded to dust by the eternal fleet. He doesn't harm the alliance, but he slaughters plenty of innocents while he is the eternal emperor.

 

1. I don't think this is Marr showing compassion. I believe he is pointing out that while the alliance is a good thing, many will die and no one really realizes what is coming. It's also worth considering that Marr's faith in the Sith Code has been shaken and even he admitted it was flawed during Chapter 12.

 

2. I believe Darth Marr is talking about concluding the entire story as a whole, not just KotFE. The game keeps suggesting the player will be the emperor of the eternal throne by the time this is all over and I think Marr is alluding to that.

[CaptRogue]

KotFE revitalized what was largely a dead MMO.

 

Aside from all your other ignorant posts stating "facts" that are just opinions.

Where come up with the above quoted post??

 

This MMO is deader now than it was when KOTFE launched. *smh*

[Aowin]

I think I have events nailed on, Scourge plans to betray Vitiate to Knight as he knows the true goal is the annihilation of all life in galaxy. Now I accept that when The Treaty of Coruscant is signed The Emperor retreats to isolation and leaves The Dark Council in charge. Now this is where things get tricky.

 

We're led to believe he goes to Zakuul and fathers 3 children. However the Warrior kills 'The Voice' on Voss and then The Knight kills a version of Vitiate on DK, this leads to SoR, Yavin Temple and Ziost. So my argument is the canon they've developed for themselves in game. The answers to these questions are never given. Vitiate is already immortal thanks to the Sith magic and destruction of Nathema. So he has no reason to wipe out Ziost, it would go against the change of character he must have had during his time on Zakuul.

 

Based on what KotFE is implying, Vitiate has three children during that 30 year period of the treaty being signed and before SWTOR begins. That seems plausible considering the ages of Valkorian's children.

 

Actually, Vitiate is not immortal prior to Ziost. I'd recommend reading the Revan book again. The reason why he has "children," such as Kira, is so he can body swap whenever the body expires. He cannot live forever without the use of this body swapping technique and fears death. All Vitiate accomplished on Nathema was significantly increasing his power via consuming the planet so that he could take control of what was a collapsing Sith Empire after the Great Hyperspace War. It's not until after he devours Ziost that he is truly "immortal" where he doesn't even need a physical form anymore. This is why Valkorian states he no longer needs "hands, voices, or children."

 

The body the Jedi Knight destroyed was merely one of his "children." The voice was just a stand-in for Vitiate while he was off ruling Zakuul. This is how BioWare presents these events anyway.

 

When we find him on Yavin 4 he is trapped and was too weak to release himself. He needed Revan's help in order to break free and go to Ziost where he gains his immortality.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Aowin

[rg_campbell]

Based on what KotFE is implying, Vitiate has three children during that 30 year period of the treaty being signed and before SWTOR begins. That seems plausible considering the ages of Valkorian's children.

 

Actually, Vitiate is not immortal prior to Ziost. I'd recommend reading the Revan book again. The reason why he has "children," such as Kira, is so he can body swap whenever the body expires. He cannot live forever and fears death. It's not until after he devours Ziost that he is truly "immortal" where he doesn't even need a physical form anymore. This is why Valkorian states he no longer needs "hands, voices, or children."

 

The body the Jedi Knight destroyed was merely one of his "children." The voice was just a stand-in for Vitiate while he was off ruling Zakuul. This is how BioWare presents these events anyway.

 

When we find him on Yavin 4 he is trapped and was too weak to release himself. He needed Revan's help in order to break free and go to Ziost where he gains his immortality.

 

I will read Revan again, it's been a few years. I however cannot accept that the SoR events can happen if Vitiate is off in Zakuul. How can he be ruling Zakuul but somehow trapped on Yavin 4. I know you'll say Senya says 'he would be distant and not speak to them for weeks or months' but it is never stated that he left Zakuul at anytime,

so he is of able body and in Zakuul and I'd think they'd notice if their emperor disappeared for the years it takes for the original stories to Ziost to happen.

Edited August 11, 2016 by rg_campbell

[Vodamin]

During KotfE unprecedented number of servers basically died.

Very successful expansion, indeed.

Zero sense of repeatability.

Gameplay was lacking so so much - it felt like watching short movies rather than playing an RPG.

Story wise the who thing was gradually worsening. False sense of choice.

Skytroopers, skytroopers everywhere. Automatic combat engagement, same enemies, same atmosphere, borig af.

Dumbed down difficulty to the point where you can deal with the enemies by using just autoattack. Zero mechanics, zero effort.

Not a single full scale planet. Just a reminder that during RotHC we got Makeb, and for Revan we got TWO new planets.

And now we have what? Instanced story, places that you can't go back, and a zone where you can gather mats.

No new operations. 1 new Flashpoint, that I did in solo in Heroic mode with my pre-expansion gear (rating 198). Just lol!

 

OP, you are a troll, and a good one I should admit. You got so many people, including me, to reply to your thread. You should get a medal. /clap

 

Edit: and lets not forget that fact that they made you subscribe to receive a single player story content in an online game. Now this is what I call cynical.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Vodamin

[martinglom]

I totally agree 100% i loved the KOTFE chapters but I'm very disappointed with the latest one it might be just me but i think it was not well designed and its kinda lame and too short

 

The rest were amazing the latest one was very lame completed it in 20 minutes shame really was soo looking forward to [laying it longer

[MiguelGx]

During KotfE unprecedented number of servers basically died.

Very successful expansion, indeed.

Zero sense of repeatability.

Gameplay was lacking so so much - it felt like watching short movies rather than playing an RPG.

Story wise the who thing was gradually worsening. False sense of choice.

Skytroopers, skytroopers everywhere. Automatic combat engagement, same enemies, same atmosphere, borig af.

Dumbed down difficulty to the point where you can deal with the enemies by using just autoattack. Zero mechanics, zero effort.

Not a single full scale planet. Just a reminder that during RotHC we got Makeb, and for Revan we got TWO new planets.

And now we have what? Instanced story, places that you can't go back, and a zone where you can gather mats.

No new operations. 1 new Flashpoint, that I did in solo in Heroic mode with my pre-expansion gear (rating 198). Just lol!

 

OP, you are a troll, and a good one I should admit. You got so many people, including me, to reply to your thread. You should get a medal. /clap

 

Edit: and lets not forget that fact that they made you subscribe to receive a single player story content in an online game. Now this is what I call cynical.

 

You won the price, sir.

[Aowin]

I will read Revan again, it's been a few years. I however cannot accept that the SoR events can happen if Vitiate is off in Zakuul. How can he be ruling Zakuul but somehow trapped on Yavin 4. I know you'll say Senya says 'he would be distant and not speak to them for weeks or months' but it is never stated that he left Zakuul at anytime,

so he is of able body and in Zakuul and I'd think they'd notice if their emperor disappeared for the years it takes for the original stories to Ziost to happen.

 

The only way this makes sense is if Vitiate was traveling between Zakuul and the Sith Empire. I believe the only time we see Vitiate in the Core Worlds is when the Jedi Knight confronts him briefly. Remember, he is still very capable of body swapping at this time and it's very likely what Senya stated was accurate as Vitiate wasn't really there, just a body. I think that could somewhat explain how Vitiate might be in two places at once initially. I think after he is defeated by the Jedi Knight, released by Revan, and then devours Ziost, that is when Vitiate returns to Zakuul and has Arcann and Thexan invade the Core Worlds after gaining immortality as he no longer needs the Republic or the Empire for devouring.

[Aowin]

I totally agree 100% i loved the KOTFE chapters but I'm very disappointed with the latest one it might be just me but i think it was not well designed and its kinda lame and too short

 

The rest were amazing the latest one was very lame completed it in 20 minutes shame really was soo looking forward to [laying it longer

 

I don't think it helped that BioWare delayed Chapter 16 by two weeks and then gave the impression it was going to be better for it. That was going to set expectations far too high. Even had the finale been what everybody "wanted," there would have still been folks who were disappointed. Charles Boyd made it abundantly clear that Chapter 16 was not an ending truly, but a new beginning. He also stated that we would see a lot of our previous choices start to have an impact in KotET, so we can only wait and see if he's right.

[Keta]

It would seem to me that the players you are describing would stick around for the other 7 stories.

 

 

KOTOR was a Jedi game. Most of those here looking for a KOTOR 2 follow on didn't care about the other classes, when they reached the end of the story they were all pau.

 

As for the rest, I was in a very large guild that did a lot of beta together and had played in many games for a long long time (over 10 years for most of us). And that's what nearly every one of them told me. It was also what other players in other guilds told me. It was also in much of the gaming press iirc. Whether it's all true or any of it really is moot. What matters is what happens now with a substantial percentage of the subscriber base that isn't happy with the season and/or chapter 16? So my questions are:

 

First, whether KOTFE delivered enough to keep people around for season 2 that might otherwise be inclined to leave? Secondly, did it satisfy those who are planning on remaining subscribers?

 

I can't answer the first question as I'm not in that category. As for the second my personal answer is no. I do not place myself in the haters category but chapter 16 (and others) seriously under delivered in every way that mattered to me. The story was thin even by game standards. It also not as compelling (for me) within the context of the game. That might move people like me into the first category as the next update and season develop.

 

 

Aloha.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Keta

[Aowin]

...

 

I'm not sure why he is trying so hard to rewrite history. This game was always about the story. BioWare for three years hyped up the story and nothing else. It wasn't until the Gamescom before launch that we even learned about the first operation: Eternity Vault. Everybody who was buying TOR did it because they wanted KotOR 3. Heck, even Daniel Erickson (lead writer at the time) said SWTOR was KotOR 3-9 just so people would believe this was a true story-driven RPG. Warzones, operations, and flashpoints were literally an afterthought that they felt compelled to mention just to say SWTOR was an MMO, but those were never the focus.

 

As for KotFE, I think it's a mixed bag. Overall I think people definitely enjoyed it for the most part, but it wasn't perfect. I think it's very likely many will at least stay subbed just for the first bundle of chapters from KotET to give it another chance before they cancel their subscriptions. The one benefit these expansions have compared to RotHC and SoR is they don't require a base fee to purchase. I think BioWare really needs to deliver this fall or they could see a considerable drop in their subscriber base.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Aowin

[VegasTheLost]

First, whether KOTFE delivered enough to keep people around for season 2 that might otherwise be inclined to leave? Secondly, did it satisfy those who are planning on remaining subscribers?

 

KotFE failed to retain me. The only reason for me to stick around is that I'm lazy and I wan't to play without limitations. So far the monthly sub price is affordable for me and I don't wan't to buy unlocks and passes. However I don't stay sub because of the next season. I'm willing to pay the absolute minimum needed, but not more. BW have to seriously up their game for me to start pouring some more money apart from the sub price. KotFE wasn't a reason, KotET will not be a reason, nor as CM packs.

[Sommyboy]

Can u just explain to me why do you mean by "Bioware storytelling" that u put in nearly every post u make.

[gabigool]

KOTOR was a Jedi game. Most of those here looking for a KOTOR 2 follow on didn't care about the other classes, when they reached the end of the story they were all pau.

 

As for the rest, I was in a very large guild that did a lot of beta together and had played in many games for a long long time (over 10 years for most of us). And that's what nearly every one of them told me. It was also what other players in other guilds told me. It was also in much of the gaming press iirc.

 

You make 8 stories. People play one and quit. But people are playing your game for story.

 

Do you see how silly that sounds? It makes no sense.

 

Whether it's all true or any of it really is moot.

 

As it's in the context of why a million players quit, I do not think moot is the appropriate word.

 

I'm not sure why he is trying so hard to rewrite history. This game was always about the story. BioWare for three years hyped up the story and nothing else.

 

How this game was hyped in 2009 is irrelevant. What matters is who paid on release. And on release this game was very clearly labeled an MMO and very clearly broadcasting it would be a place for people to engage in MMO content such as raiding and PvP. <-- this is factual.

 

You thinking you know why people subscribed is not factual. I am starting to notice a pattern where you have difficulty discerning fact from your opinion.

 

You have no idea why people subscribed. Zero. Not a clue. And I believe it is largely irrelevant. The important fact is why did most of them quit? If they were here for story, the logical answer should be story related.

 

But they left well before consuming even most of it. I think that's a pretty big flaw in your thinking that you cannot address without sounding like the guy above you or telling me I've said something I have not.

 

I understand how important story is to this game. I do. I loved the class stories in this game. I thought they accomplished something no other MMO I've played has done - immersed me into my character and made me feel like I was in a story. My BH felt like a BH. My Smuggler felt like a Smuggler. Some were great. Some were not. I still have not finished the consular story after trying three times. some I've played through a couple times.

 

But I do not believe I have seen anything anywhere to suggest that the masses of players who have left this game in its first year did so due to any aspect of story being lacking. And until KotFE I do not see variance in that trend.

 

I do see far more evidence that the lack of support to content that was claimed at launch to be(come) core pillars of this game led to player migration elsewhere.

 

Just my opinion, and I would be happy to change my mind if you could offer something other than "everyone knows....."

Edited August 12, 2016 by gabigool

[TUXs]

Aside from all your other ignorant posts stating "facts" that are just opinions.

Where come up with the above quoted post??

 

This MMO is deader now than it was when KOTFE launched. *smh*

Yes it is

[Rhysling]

Definitely agree!! Absolutely loved this expansion. Story was fantastic. I don't know if Chapter 16 could have been any better.

 

I loved the ending of Chapter 16. Reminded me of Episode V. A great place to launch the next set of Chapters from for the expansion.

[TUXs]

I loved the ending of Chapter 16. Reminded me of Episode V. A great place to launch the next set of Chapters from for the expansion.

It reminded me of the ending of Chapter 9. Give victory speech, alliance is building, people are joining us, word is spreading and our goal is the Eternal Throne...

[Aowin]

Can u just explain to me why do you mean by "Bioware storytelling" that u put in nearly every post u make.

 

I guess you are new to BioWare games. BioWare Storytelling is a choice-driven experience where the choices you make throughout the game not only impact yourself, but others. It has been a staple of BioWare since Baldur's Gate all the way to the present. Especially with their console debut with Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic in 2003, BioWare cemented itself with its own unique storytelling approach that had branching paths leading to different outcomes.

 

KotOR 1 was actually one of BioWare's most dynamic games as you could either end the game with a Light Side ending or a Dark Side ending. You could even decide whether the entire Sith Academy on Korriban falls into chaos with everyone attacking you if you choose to kill the Sith Masters of the academy or not after your trials. There are so many choices that have consequences of all different magnitudes that it easily became one of the best RPGs ever made.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Aowin

[Aowin]

...

 

And with one post you have completely discredited any point you ever made. Instead of even trying to refute my points, you resort to unwarranted insults and a condescending tone showing your true colors.

 

I was following SWTOR as far back as 2006 when it was just a rumor. I have been a member of the site since 2008 when it was officially announced. I was a closed beta tester far before the game launched. I think I know a bit more than you do about what BioWare was focusing on with this game because I was testing it for them. Operations were never the focus. Flashpoints were never the focus. Warzones were never the focus. It was always story. Why do you think it took BioWare so long to show any of those other features? For one, because every other MMO does it. Secondly, because those MMO staples were optional features that were implemented in the game right before launch as the story was the centerpiece.

 

You probably don't know this, but it was the class stories that were tested the most during closed beta. Most of the beta servers were for testing the story. There was ONE server for level 50 characters to do endgame content, and EV was completely broken so it was pretty hard to test. The same was the case with Ilum Open World. A very small amount of players actually tested that content in closed beta because BioWare did not focus on it. That's the reason BioWare was surprised HeroEngine could not support more than 20 players on the screen and it's why Ilum World PvP was removed post-release. You can hear Gabe Amatangelo talk about this very fact during the first Guild Community Summit in March of 2012 (find it on YouTube), when he was still the lead PvP/Endgame Designer.

 

The only MMO feature that was really tested in closed beta was warzones, and expertise was also broken. There were only four flashpoints in closed beta up until almost the launch of the game. That's when Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, etc. were all added at the last moment and most of them were broken. The content that you continue to claim was the reason most people were here was the last to be done because it was never BioWare's priority and it never implied it was.

 

No, one million players did not unsub from SWTOR. It was approximately 700,000 subscribers (two thirds of the community) that did not extend their subscription beyond the 3-month initial purchase BECAUSE they beat the class story they were interested in and left. Certainly, not having any substantial endgame content is the reason some folks left. However, it was the largely the fact that BioWare confirmed new class story content wasn't coming anytime soon that a majority of people quit. You assume most of those 700,000 subscribers were MMO gamers. You seem to forget that SWTOR was the fastest growing MMO to date with over 1.1 million subscribers within its first month, and a large part of that was the single player RPG KotOR fans coming to play what was labeled by BioWare as "KotOR 3-9." This is not an opinion. This is fact. If you can't be respectful about this I merely won't respond to you again.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Aowin

[Tsetso]

It was approximately 700,000 subscribers (two thirds of the community) that did not extend their subscription beyond the 3-month initial purchase BECAUSE they beat the class story they were interested in and left.

Any facts to support that huge BECAUSE? I begin to think you really are not making difference between facts and your opinion. And by facts i mean hard data. Anything published by BW or EA?

[Yyrmega]

Very good job indeed!

 

And PLEASE PLEASE don't listen to the army of haters (probably getting their sub paid by other gaming companies JUST to bad mouth this game).

 

The storytelling here is 1000000 times better than in other games.

 

I bet the people who are complaining here LOOOVED the force awakens.

[VegasTheLost]

 

You probably don't know this, but it was the class stories that were tested the most during closed beta. Most of the beta servers were for testing the story. There was ONE server for level 50 characters to do endgame content, and EV was completely broken so it was pretty hard to test. The same was the case with Ilum Open World. A very small amount of players actually tested that content in closed beta because BioWare did not focus on it. That's the reason BioWare was surprised HeroEngine could not support more than 20 players on the screen and it's why Ilum World PvP was removed post-release. You can hear Gabe Amatangelo talk about this very fact during the first Guild Community Summit in March of 2012 (find it on YouTube), when he was still the lead PvP/Endgame Designer.

 

The only MMO feature that was really tested in closed beta was warzones, and expertise was also broken. There were only four flashpoints in closed beta up until almost the launch of the game. That's when Hammer Station, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, etc. were all added at the last moment and most of them were broken. The content that you continue to claim was the reason most people were here was the last to be done because it was never BioWare's priority and it never implied it was.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who sees this as a flaw in the design, heck even in the planning stage. Just to make sure everyone is on the same page: by designing an MMO, a company can't just ignore the parts of said MMO that makes a game, surprise-surprise: MMO. At least if they wan't that game to succeed.

 

This statement of your tells me that this game was designed to fail from the get go. If the emphasis was on story and single player content, why bother with stuff like group quests and such.

[Yyrmega]

Yes it is

 

Any fact to back that up, champion?

[Aowin]

Any facts to support that huge BECAUSE? I begin to think you really are not making difference between facts and your opinion. And by facts i mean hard data. Anything published by BW or EA?

 

Of course. Look at the forums during the first three months of this game's life. Read James Ohlen's address to the entire community specifically stating BioWare underestimated how much content players could consume and it would take some time before new content was made. The answers aren't hard to find. I suppose I take it for granted because I was actually here and saw how this MMO unraveled shortly after its release. Many of you probably were not here at release or in closed beta, so of course you'd be skeptical by my remarks and that's perfectly fine.

 

You can "begin to think" what you want, but every point I have made was reasoned and based on evidence straight from the game, the developers, and this website.