Thank you BioWare for the best expansion yet.

[rg_campbell]

Yeah its often hard to work out who is more stupid my character or Arcann.

 

But I had to conclude my character. Arcann has the undying loyalty of everyone that serves him, even his bat **** crazy sister (he betrays her) and despite everything he has done the loyalty of his justice loving mother. Where as my character who has always tried to save lives, get supplies in by the 1000 save the galaxy and restore order to the Sith Empire (yeah Im a Sith Warrior no weak Jedi ) is dictated to by his followers, betrayed when the feel like it and ***** and moaned at by someone over every choice I make.

 

Clearly Arcann is doing something right and I'm inept. Cause his troops love and respect him.

 

I ran through as Jedi and Sith. Both are hardened battlefield veterans of the all ToR wars. I too was upset that my character was made to look like an incompetent fool.

Edited August 11, 2016 by rg_campbell

[Keta]

Yet they left. Why? Because they played through one or two classes, as fast as they humanly could, mashing their spacebars and got to 50 - then realized there was nothing to do that wasn't horribly broken, mistuned or just plain missing. ...

 

The vast majority of players that left in the first year did so because they were looking for KOTOR 3 and this was(and is) as close as they were going to get. When they finished their class story and reached 50 they had beaten the game and were all done.

 

And as an aside if you're curious about KOTOR 3 and why the project was cancelled, you can find that plus some of the story board illustrations and some of the story line with a basic search.

[Aowin]

...

 

But that's just it, the explanation wasn't even "neutral/grey." The way KotFE explained it, the Jedi saw the Force as a companion, the Sith saw the Force as a slave, and the Knights of Zakuul are zealots in their cause to their emperor. Apparently, somehow their fanatical belief commands a stronger use of the Force rather than seeing it as an ally or something to be used. I'm not sure how that is a more open-minded approach than the Jedi or the Sith but that is what we are lead to believe.

 

It's also not entirely clear why Valkorian seems to understand this as he has obviously been pure Dark Side for over a thousand years. Not to mention, Arcann and even Vaylin seem to have some Dark Side corruption. In the cinematic trailer, alone, we see Arcann's pupils change to the more traditional Dark Side corruption due to giving into his rage.

 

I think it's interesting BioWare is trying to dive into the depths of the Force and how it works. KotOR 2 did a fantastic job of showing the Force wasn't just Light and Dark. However, so far KotFE has done little to provide us any context or understanding of how exactly this new 'third path" works and why it's so much more powerful than the traditional two.

[Aowin]

...

 

Agreed. The "you wouldn't believe what happened to me if I told you" dialogue at the end of Chapter 12 wasn't sufficient. This new understanding of the Force is far too important to the lore and especially to the plot to just be casually talked about and never revisited.

[rg_campbell]

But that's just it, the explanation wasn't even "neutral/grey." The way KotFE explained it, the Jedi saw the Force as a companion, the Sith saw the Force as a slave, and the Knights of Zakuul are zealots in their cause to their emperor. Apparently, somehow their fanatical belief commands a stronger use of the Force rather than seeing it as an ally or something to be used. I'm not sure how that is a more open-minded approach than the Jedi or the Sith but that is what we are lead to believe.

 

It's also not entirely clear why Valkorian seems to understand this as he has obviously been pure Dark Side for over a thousand years. Not to mention, Arcann and even Vaylin seem to have some Dark Side corruption. In the cinematic trailer, alone, we see Arcann's pupils change to the more traditional Dark Side corruption due to giving into his rage.

 

I think it's interesting BioWare is trying to dive into the depths of the Force and how it works. KotOR 2 did a fantastic job of showing the Force wasn't just Light and Dark. However, so far KotFE has done little to provide us any context or understanding of how exactly this new 'third path" works and why it's so much more powerful than the traditional two.

 

I agree entirely. In basically every Star Wars franchise, the motive of the plot is Light vs Dark. Yet here we are led to believe that this third path is somehow stronger but not given an explanation for this, other than 'belief' in Arcann makes the Zakuul Knights more powerful.

 

Now Arcann and Vaylin have clearly succumbed to the Dark Side, it is insidious after all, so are the Zakuul Knights now fuelled by passion and rage? Does Arcann's descent into darkness make him vulnerable? Is this why Senya can hold her own against Vaylin, as she is not bound by Light/Dark dogma?

 

This expansion never gives any clarity to this new third path and I wholeheartedly agree that is way too important to the plot to be only lightly brushed upon.

[Radzkie]

For the most part I LOVED the story. LOVED IT. I didn't care that choices didn't seem to actually matter. Except for the few that could (and in my case did) make Koth the manchild have a temper tantrum.

 

But to be perfectly honest the ending left me... not feeling much at first. It didn't feel like a victory or a defeat, until Koth stole my Gravestone. That's when I really felt something, which was anger and the desire to violently murder him.

 

I suspect more of our choices will matter in season two. I just hope that the story stops punishing DS players only. Sometimes DS choices are smarter IMO, like making sure the mando's aren't armed to the teeth and ready to bite you in the *** the moment you turn around.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Radzkie

[rg_campbell]

Another thing that angered me is that I could create a level 60 character now and play through to 16 and complete the expansion.

 

So why did I bother getting Alliance Specialists to 20? Recruiting everyone they could find for me? Destroying the Star Fortresses and the Exarchs? I mean were they there just to keep my attention during the month whilst waiting for story?

 

Couldn't they have made a new Op and FP for this MMO with the resources that went into these pointless things?

[Aowin]

I agree entirely. In basically every Star Wars franchise, the motive of the plot is Light vs Dark. Yet here we are led to believe that this third path is somehow stronger but not given an explanation for this, other than 'belief' in Arcann makes the Zakuul Knights more powerful.

 

Now Arcann and Vaylin have clearly succumbed to the Dark Side, it is insidious after all, so are the Zakuul Knights now fuelled by passion and rage? Does Arcann's descent into darkness make him vulnerable? Is this why Senya can hold her own against Vaylin, as she is not bound by Light/Dark dogma?

 

This expansion never gives any clarity to this new third path and I wholeheartedly agree that is way too important to the plot to be only lightly brushed upon.

Absolutely. As I said, I don't mind BioWare going into uncharted territory. But, they better have a compelling reason for doing so. So far, the Outlander being so much more powerful than he/she was before doesn't make a lot of sense. The construction of the new weapon at the forge didn't really offer any meaning either (beyond being a simple mechanic for Arcann), other than perhaps symbolism of a new weapon for a new enemy?

 

Yeah, it's never entirely clear how Senya can easily best Vaylin, who is apparently Valkorian's most powerful offspring, yet Heskal easily bests Senya in a matter of moments. Alignment doesn't appear to play a role in this new third path, but we don't really know either. Power levels aren't well established and it's really difficult to keep track of how some enemies can be defeated easily but others can't. Even the expansion somewhat mocks itself by the Outlander saying zakuul knights aren't anything special, yet their command of the Force is so much greater apparently.

[TUXs]

The construction of the new weapon at the forge didn't really offer any meaning either (beyond being a simple mechanic for Arcann), other than perhaps symbolism of a new weapon for a new enemy?

I've only completed CH16 on 1 character who didn't have the special weapon equipped...does it provide something special during the fight that I missed out on?

[Aowin]

I've only completed CH16 on 1 character who didn't have the special weapon equipped...does it provide something special during the fight that I missed out on?

 

I believe it depends on which choice out of the three you chose when constructing the weapon. For some I know it granted a defensive buff as well as an offensive boost. I didn't actually use the weapon as it wasn't even necessary for defeating Arcann. Beyond a few extra benefits for the Arcann fight, I don't believe the weapon has any other use. Someone else who actually used it (as well as specifying which choice they made when making the weapon) could provide specifics of the perks.

[rg_campbell]

Absolutely. As I said, I don't mind BioWare going into uncharted territory. But, they better have a compelling reason for doing so. So far, the Outlander being so much more powerful than he/she was before doesn't make a lot of sense. The construction of the new weapon at the forge didn't really offer any meaning either (beyond being a simple mechanic for Arcann), other than perhaps symbolism of a new weapon for a new enemy?

 

Yeah, it's never entirely clear how Senya can easily best Vaylin, who is apparently Valkorian's most powerful offspring, yet Heskal easily bests Senya in a matter of moments. Alignment doesn't appear to play a role in this new third path, but we don't really know either. Power levels aren't well established and it's really difficult to keep track of how some enemies can be defeated easily but others can't. Even the expansion somewhat mocks itself by the Outlander saying zakuul knights aren't anything special, yet their command of the Force is so much greater apparently.

 

I haven't run through as Agent, Smuggler, Trooper or Hunter yet and I wonder how the Force is perceived from their prospective. I will YouTube that as there is no way in hell that I will ever do KoTFE again.

 

I'm gonna stick to pre 4.0 content. It's been a while since I did the Dreadmasters storyline. Gonna do Belsavis planet Arc, Section X, Dreadseeds along with EC, S&V, TfB, Oricon, DF and DP for some nostalgia about how a real story is delivered.

Edited August 11, 2016 by rg_campbell

[Radzkie]

I believe it depends on which choice out of the three you chose when constructing the weapon. For some I know it granted a defensive buff as well as an offensive boost. I didn't actually use the weapon as it wasn't even necessary for defeating Arcann. Beyond a few extra benefits for the Arcann fight, I don't believe the weapon has any other use. Someone else who actually used it (as well as specifying which choice they made when making the weapon) could provide specifics of the perks.

 

Mine gave a speed buff for a long duration. Unnecessary but fun.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Radzkie

[rklontz]

I've only completed CH16 on 1 character who didn't have the special weapon equipped...does it provide something special during the fight that I missed out on?

 

I forgot all about that weapon. I am not even sure I still have it.

[TUXs]

I believe it depends on which choice out of the three you chose when constructing the weapon. For some I know it granted a defensive buff as well as an offensive boost. I didn't actually use the weapon as it wasn't even necessary for defeating Arcann. Beyond a few extra benefits for the Arcann fight, I don't believe the weapon has any other use. Someone else who actually used it (as well as specifying which choice they made when making the weapon) could provide specifics of the perks.

OK...I think that's the "Transcendence" version? I only had the shield and forearm bash available as special items...so the weapon gives you just the buff right?

[SootyTX]

I've only completed CH16 on 1 character who didn't have the special weapon equipped...does it provide something special during the fight that I missed out on?

 

I did it on 1 toon that I chose the resilience path with when making it and got a heal ability on a relatively short CD. The whole fight was so lame though that it was not at all important, I think I only used it when I just stood around while reading the tooltips for other abilities that popped up, sort of "hang on, I'm not ready yet" kind of deal (which BW has an annoying habit of doing a lot and really is not fun for those of us with old eyes)

[Aowin]

OK...I think that's the "Transcendence" version? I only had the shield and forearm bash available as special items...so the weapon gives you just the buff right?

 

To my knowledge the only purpose the Chapter 12 weapon serves is a buff/ability against Arcann and nothing more.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Aowin

[TUXs]

I haven't run through as Agent, Smuggler, Trooper or Hunter yet and I wonder how the Force is perceived from their prospective. I will YouTube that as there is no way in hell that I will ever do KoTFE again.

I've only done it as a Trooper...the "force" isn't really explained, I'm sure the same things that happened to the Trooper happen to every class. Like when Arcann attacks me, I suddenly got some yellow God bubble around me...which was never explained other than Arcann saying "there's my dad"...at which point I pick up a shield discarded conveniently nearby (which is fine, it worked with the story), but the whole force thing is never delved into.

[gabigool]

The vast majority of players that left in the first year did so because they were looking for KOTOR 3 and this was(and is) as close as they were going to get. When they finished their class story and reached 50 they had beaten the game and were all done.

 

And as an aside if you're curious about KOTOR 3 and why the project was cancelled, you can find that plus some of the story board illustrations and some of the story line with a basic search.

 

I strongly doubt this based on both the studio's comments/actions shortly thereafter.

 

What do you base your opinion on?

 

It would seem to me that the players you are describing would stick around for the other 7 stories.

[TUXs]

I strongly doubt this based on both the studio's comments/actions shortly thereafter.

 

What do you base your opinion on?

 

It would seem to me that the players you are describing would stick around for the other 7 stories.

Of course they would. The main reason for the decline was the state of the game at release - TERRIBLE UI, terrible performance and lack of end game content being the key factors. People pretending it was anything else weren't here obviously.

[gabigool]

OK...I think that's the "Transcendence" version? I only had the shield and forearm bash available as special items...so the weapon gives you just the buff right?

 

I believe it gave me two additional clickable buffs, one was transcendence and the other - i "think" - was a damage-taken reduction buff a la energy shield.

[Morkhaine]

Without a doubt, KotFE is far better than Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Revan combined (not including GSF and GSH as they were QoL updates). While many may criticize KotFE for being a forced single player experience, I think many seem to forget what separates SWTOR from every other MMO on the market: BioWare Storytelling.

 

LOL Thanks OP. I needed a good laugh.

[TUXs]

I believe it gave me two additional clickable buffs, one was transcendence and the other - i "think" - was a damage-taken reduction buff a la energy shield.

Perfect! Thank you for the reply. Eventually I'll do it on my other Trooper...I'll be sure to equip the weapon though

[rg_campbell]

Without a doubt, KotFE is far better than Rise of the Hutt Cartel and Shadow of Revan combined (not including GSF and GSH as they were QoL updates). While many may criticize KotFE for being a forced single player experience, I think many seem to forget what separates SWTOR from every other MMO on the market: BioWare Storytelling.

 

Well I'd be inclined to agree If KoTFE wasn't so incoherent and messy. Too many questions were left unanswered for this to be classed as a success. I want an answer as to why Bioware has gone against their previous 4 years of story, where Vitiate was a mass murdering pschyo, hell bent on galactic annihilation, a pure Darksider. To a strangely apathetic neutral force user with a family. No explanation for his sudden personality shift is given.

 

We assume he was in Zakuul during the events of SoR, so who was in the temple at Yavin 4 and on Ziost? Has he done a Voldemort and split his soul in pieces so he cannot truly die? Is Valkorian a part of the real Vitiate that was good(ish) and hence broke free of him? The unsatisfying transition from Vitiate's clear plan of galactic genocide to him being Valkorian is an extremely large flaw in the story.

 

Then there is this departure form true Stars Wars lore of Light v Dark, to the unclarifying mess of 'third path' of the force. This too is never explained with any thought or depth.

 

A poor attempt at storytelling from the folks that brought you KoTOR. They should have done much better. Now to say this is better than ROTHC expansion is an outrage. 2.0 gave us Makeb and Dreadmasters and while i didnt like them rehashing Revan in 3.0, at least that followed the cannon they'd made in the original stories.

 

This expansion would've worked a whole lot better if they'd let us kill Vitiate on Ziost. We could've then had Darth Marr summon us to Wild Space after to investigate Imperal and Republic outposts that were destroyed, and then we stumble upon Zakuul and Valkorian. Arcann still wants to kill Valkorian and does with/without our help but the neutral force diety Valkorian spirit rests in us so Arcann freezes us. Jedi and Sith have no experience fighting this new side of the force and hence lose the war. 5 years later Lana turns up.....

Edited August 11, 2016 by rg_campbell

[rg_campbell]

Also Arcann is the villian of the piece. But if you go DS you can kill Jorgan or Kaliyo. So as DS you kill more Alliance members than the villain. No, no, no, Arcann should at least kill more people you lol

 

Darth Marr states 'pity so many of them will have to die'. There are two things wrong with this statement.

1. Marr is Sith, if people die but the goal is achieved he would not care.

2. No one actually dies, unless you kill them yourself.

Edited August 11, 2016 by rg_campbell

[Aowin]

Well I'd be inclined to agree If KoTFE wasn't so incoherent and messy. Too many questions were left unanswered for this to be classed as a success. I want an answer as to why Bioware has gone against their previous 4 years of story, where Vitiate was a mass murdering pschyo, hell bent on galactic annihilation, a pure Darksider. To a strangely apathetic neutral force user with a family. No explanation for his sudden personality shift is given.

 

We assume he was in Zakuul during the events of SoR, so who was in the temple at Yavin 4 and on Ziost? Has he done a Voldemort and split his soul in pieces so he cannot truly die? Is Valkorian a part of the real Vitiate that was good(ish) and hence broke free of him? The unsatisfying transition from Vitiate's clear plan of galactic genocide to him being Valkorian is an extremely large flaw in the story.

 

Then there is this departure form true Stars Wars lore of Light v Dark, to the unclarifying mess of 'third path' of the force. This too is never explained with any thought or depth.

 

A poor attempt at storytelling from the folks that brought you KoTOR. They should have done much better. Now to say this is better than ROTHC expansion is an outrage. 2.0 gave us Makeb and Dreadmasters and while i didnt like them rehashing Revan in 3.0, at least that followed the cannon they'd made in the original stories.

 

I'll explain the timeline as your events are a bit out of order.

 

When Darth Marr is talking about the Sith Emperor being "distracted" it's after the Treaty of Coruscant is signed. If you remember, SWTOR takes place 30 years after the signing of that treaty. The Sith Emperor is mysteriously gone during this time period and we never had an explanation. Now we know he was busy crafting the Eternal Empire during that 30 year period.

 

As far as why Vitiate is on Yavin IV, that is because he was defeated by the Jedi Knight at the end of Chapter 3. His body was destroyed and he was waiting to gain enough strength to find a better host or another means of survival. What really doesn't make sense is how Vitiate goes from being this world devourer in the Knight story to the present while also simultaneously being a just yet calculating ruler in Zakuul. It's not until after Vitiate devours Ziost that he is "immortal" and no longer needs to consume the galaxy.

 

Well, truth be told the Force has never truly been delved into by the films. All we know is that the "Light side" is a natural understanding of the Force and the "Dark Side" is unnatural and leads to corruption. George Lucas, himself, suggested the Dark Side is a cancer that slowly destroys the user. Either way, in the EU (now defunct) and in KotOR 2 we have seen a greater knowledge of the Force beyond just Jedi and Sith. Even Jolee Bindo in KotOR 1 is a "gray Jedi," meaning he is still a follower of the Light but does not share the views of the Jedi Order.

 

RotHC and SoR were just trash to me. Makeb was just boring. Dread masters was raid content and had been relevant in the story since Karagga's Palace. Revan's character was completely destroyed by SoR. I'm not sure what canon you followed, but it didn't follow Revan's character at all. The Revan from KotOR 1, 2 and even the Revan book would not have been reduced to what we had in SoR. That expansion was nothing more than a cash grab off what was an amazing character.

 

KotFE is certainly not perfect, but I think it has potential going forward to make the best storytelling this MMO has ever had. I'm optimistic about the future as I was pleased with what BioWare has started.