My take on LFG tools

[Jimer_Lins]

There's been a lot of anguish about BioWare making it clear they don't want to add a LFG tool to the game. There is a very vocal faction claiming doom will ensue without it. BioWare's stated reason for not wanting to add any LFG tool is because it does not help create a sense of community. I tend to agree with them and furthermore, I suspect I understand what they're trying to do by refusing to implement one, they're actually engaging in some very subtle and hopefully effective social engineering.

 

I believe BioWare wants to create a real, vibrant community around the game. They've made some missteps in my opinion- lack of server forums is a big one- but on this issue I believe they're spot on. In order to have a vibrant community, you must have players who are actively engaged in the community- not just phantoms who wander through the game world, but people who feel they have a stake in the community- some skin in the game, so to speak.

 

By refusing to implement a LFG tool, BioWare is essentially forcing people to be socially engaged- you can't just open a window, select an instance and wait to be teleported to it, you actually have to communicate with people, and in the long term to be able to take on content on a semi-regular basis, you'll need to be part of a community in order to be able to even find a group to run.

 

The most oft-heard response to BioWare's position on LFG tools is something along the lines of

 

"It's not really social to stand around spamming LFG for two hours and not even getting a group going! We should have an LFG tool so we don't have to do that!"

 

When told that they can engage their guild, or make friends, many simply point out why their specific circumstances prevent this- they play at odd hours, they don't like guilds, their guild isn't big, they're a different level- the list is legion. Alternatively, they say they shouldn't have to jump through so many hoops just to access content.

 

I submit that yes, you should have to- and that BioWare is intentionally attempting to drive these players away, or force them to change their playstyle. BioWare has taken a bold stance that I believe bodes well for the future of this game. They're not going for massive numbers of subscriptions from people who simply want to log in, click a button, bamf into an instance, grind through it and drop group without ever talking to someone. Yes, it's difficult to get a group up by sitting around spamming "DPS LFG Athiss"- and if you believe that because it's hard to get a group going by spamming LFG that you should have a LFG tool, you're missing the point.

 

By making it hard to get groups up and access content unless you actually put some work into forging relationships- whether that's by being part of a guild or just forming friendships with people - and not being a ******* so people will want to group with you more than once- BioWare is making it very clear what type of player they want in their game. They want the people who feel the community is vital, who look forward to the people more than the next raid or grinding for a particular piece of gear.

 

They're actively making the experience less pleasant for people who cannot or will not be part of the community, and I applaud them for it. Stand around spamming "LFG" or try and figure out how to become part of the social fabric of your server- I'll tell you which will get better results in the long term. The people who want to treat the game as a glorified server browser and other players as slightly smarter NPCs are either going to have to adapt their thinking or find a game which better serves their needs.

 

Personally I'm very happy to see this stance on BioWare's part. I believe firmly that 10 people who are fully engaged as community members will be better for the game and its long-term health than a hundred who can't even be arsed to talk to people in their group.

[Talimar]

What about the flip side of the story, where I am happily actively talking to others in general, only to be bombarded by LFG DPS <quest name> over and over?

 

I know what you're saying and I agree, but not implementing it has implications for the ones that are doing what Bioware want.

 

I woud actually like to see chat bubbles ala SWG so that at least if I am in area I can see in game what that person is saying, though like many have pointed out, it's also rare to see another player.

[Jimer_Lins]

I'd like to see chat bubbles too, but that's a separate issue. While I'm not fond of LFG spam, it is a necessary evil, I think.

[crazygrizzly]

They should just implement a lfg channel and enforce it so it doesn't become another general/trade chat. Also if they have a ui to flag yourself for a flashpoint and mark it as dps/healer/whatever and what class you are would help as well so if your going to do a group for ____ you can look to see who's already interested and send them a message.

[Berree]

You are looking for a group so you click on the little lfg icon and it brings up a list of grps lfm people and what instance . So you look to see if anyone is running the instance you want and if so you click join and whoever the leader of said group is gets a tell and they decide if your the right class or whatever they need. hows that sound?

[FrostMageMari]

I have to agree, for the moment at least, that not having a LFD tool is a good thing.

 

I know they want everyone to be social, but even with joining guilds and having friends.. but for anyone that remembers Final Fantasy XI, you know that sometimes you have no option but to stand in a city waiting for someone to choose you for the group if there isn't a worthwhile tool that can be used.

 

Trust me.. standing around in Jeuno waiting for a group to go to whatever area to level because my friends didn't want to go, weren't on or were a differnt level than my character was NOT fun. That's the situation that will happen here eventually if there isn't some sort of system in place.

 

And, on other train of thought.. the game has gone out of it's way to remove the tedious things from the character, such as the crafting system and the companion mission system. Isn't forcing the player to either sit around and spam the chat (in what would most likely be the imperial fleet or republic station as that's where the entrances are), be more of a tedious time than putting your name up in a well-made LFG or LFD tool?

 

I'm not saying copy WoW's looking for dungeon style, but the game needs -something- to make it easier to group for a dungeon or quest. Saying it doesn't and that Bioware wants us all to be social won't stop the eventual "new jeuno" from forming.

[Abanoth]

LFD tools and cross-server instancing killed the WoW community and turned dungeons into a grind-fest.

[Easilyamused]

LFG = Looking for Group; LFD = ???

[Red_Vs_Blue]

on my realm a person made a channel as a lfg, type /cjoin ulfg and you u can spam away.

[Jimer_Lins]

LFG = Looking for Group; LFD = ???

 

Looking for Dungeon, perhaps? The two terms seems to be used interchangeably, although I've always used LFG.

[Jimer_Lins]

on my realm a person made a channel as a lfg, type /cjoin ulfg and you u can spam away.

 

I've advocated this also, but the channel support in TOR is still somewhat primitive.

[Basiliscus]

So far, I havent seen any "community" developing on my server I see some people asking questions and getting answers, good, good, thats how it should be, and some spamming lfg X. Other than that nobody talks, all my socializing is done with, with my guild chat or mumble.

 

/shrug

[Basiliscus]

LFD tools and cross-server instancing killed the WoW community and turned dungeons into a grind-fest.

 

The WoW community was something we looked fondly on? All i remembered were 2 grinds, the grind to get a group going, spamming in IF amidst the various trade chat memes and then actually doing the dungeon.

[Keling]

Spamming trade/general chat isn't building a community. Its an annoyance to every one in that zone along with the people that are forced to do it. Sometimes people have busy lives and don't have much time to enjoy the pleasure of sitting in the imperial fleet for 2 hours waiting for a group to get set up when they can que up for something and get it done in a fashionable time. Whether its a LFG Tool or you finding a group on your own, YOU ARE STILL IN A GROUP that requires interaction thus I'm not quite sure why it matters how you get there.

 

Saying Bioware is taking a stand about not putting it in is a little far fetch. More believable that they just haven't put in the time to create something like that yet. Pretty much like saying everytime you finish a warzone they are making a stand by having you have to reinvite everyone you were playing with lol.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Keling

[SlickDevlan]

Spamming trade/general chat isn't building a community. Its an annoyance to every one in that zone along with the people that are forced to do it. Sometimes people have busy lives and don't have much time to enjoy the pleasure of sitting in the imperial fleet for 2 hours waiting for a group to get set up when they can que up for something and get it done in a fashionable time. Whether its a LFG Tool or you finding a group on your own, YOU ARE STILL IN A GROUP that requires interaction thus I'm not quite sure why it matters how you get there.

 

Saying Bioware is taking a stand about not putting it in is a little far fetch. More believable that they just haven't put in the time to create something like that yet. Pretty much like saying everytime you finish a warzone they are making a stand by having you have to reinvite everyone you were playing with lol.

 

You're right, spamming trade/general doesn't build community but actually playing with people on your server does.

 

Now, a LFG tool that is intra-server only would be OK but I believe that most people who want a LFG want cross server where the game becomes anonymous.

[Bladeviperz]

my servers community consists of people telling bad jokes and such. it seems be coming along nicely

[Raximillian]

The game does need some LFG tool. No, it does not need one like in WoW, that one is a really bad implementation.

 

It needs somewhere we can list ourselves as ready for X dungeon, and we can see other people looking for that dungeon, or parties forming. That should work globally as well.

 

A global LFG channel would also work, but we all know that channel would be used for everything as well :S

 

We do need a tool, but one that presents a list only. For the rest, we have to talk to form up the group.

[Basiliscus]

You're right, spamming trade/general doesn't build community but actually playing with people on your server does.

 

Now, a LFG tool that is intra-server only would be OK but I believe that most people who want a LFG want cross server where the game becomes anonymous.

 

still, no one ever talks in groups, I try to initiate some stuff, hey, hows everyone doing? I get good, then thats basically it.

[Jimer_Lins]

my servers community consists of people telling bad jokes and such. it seems be coming along nicely

 

Puts me in mind of Bender from The Breakfast Club: "So it's sort of social. Demented and sad, but social!"

 

In all seriousness, the game is still so new that we only see the nascent beginnings of what will be the community on our servers. It takes time, and I wish BioWare hadn't made the terrible decision not to support server forums, as it would help to have a place where one could confer with just members of your own community.

 

I'm seeing similar stuff on the server I play on- my guild also tries to foster community by doing events, and I do a radio show where we have an in-game presence. It's all about having fun with other people, not just by yourself. There's plenty of single-player games.

[Jimer_Lins]

The game does need some LFG tool. No, it does not need one like in WoW, that one is a really bad implementation.

 

It needs somewhere we can list ourselves as ready for X dungeon, and we can see other people looking for that dungeon, or parties forming. That should work globally as well.

 

A global LFG channel would also work, but we all know that channel would be used for everything as well :S

 

We do need a tool, but one that presents a list only. For the rest, we have to talk to form up the group.

 

You can already flag yourself as LFG and you'll come up in a list via the social window. There's also the suggestion above, an LFG channel- I hope better chat channel support comes along in future patches, which will make that kind of thing a more viable solution- like being able to search for channels, and moderate them.

[Khoranth]

I hate LFD and I will quit if they ever implement it. But the current system really does suck.

 

I mean even in ancient EQ you could flag your self LFG, then people could type

/who cleric LFG to get a list of healers tanks or whatever class they wanted, and get a list for the entire server. you could further separate it by lvl in your /who statement

 

I would really like to be able to flag my self /tank LFG or /heals LFG

 

and as a group leaderbe able to do a simple search for current players who are LFG and be able to see role and level.

 

server only of course, no matchmaking or teleporting.

 

But i mean come on, they could at least catch up to the level of ancient EQ

[ColdFireDragon]

There's been a lot of anguish about BioWare making it clear they don't want to add a LFG tool to the game. There is a very vocal faction claiming doom will ensue without it. BioWare's stated reason for not wanting to add any LFG tool is because it does not help create a sense of community. I tend to agree with them and furthermore, I suspect I understand what they're trying to do by refusing to implement one, they're actually engaging in some very subtle and hopefully effective social engineering.

 

All I can say is this has made me totally ignore any and all group contnet. I don't enjoy spending hours trying to find people to do something, I don't find it fun, or entertaning to sit there doing nothing in a game while you look for people. So I will probably just PvP to get gear at the high end since you can que for that.

Edited December 28, 2011 by ColdFireDragon

[Khoranth]

All I can say is this has made me totally ignore any and all group contnet. I don't enjoy spending hours trying to find people to do something, I don't find it fun, or entertaning to sit there doing nothing in a game while you look for people. So I will probably just PvP to get gear at the high end since you can que for that.

 

Why would you spend hours sitting around doing nothing but shouting for a group? what was preventing you from doing anything else while shouting for a group?

 

Why can't you do quests then shout in /general for a group while you quest? I did that on taris while i formed a group for hammer the other night.

 

I was running around questing, and shouting LFM hammer, found other people near my lvl questing who wanted to go do a dungeon, once we got 4, we left taris and went to do hammer.

[Jimer_Lins]

I was running quests on Taris at some unholy hour when most of my guild was in bed. I simply asked if anyone wanted to do a heroic- I actually asked, didn't spam "LFG MissionTitle".

 

That turned into some brief conversation in general chat. We realized there were fewer than 30 people on the whole planet, and instead of doing a heroic, we got them all together and took down the world boss.

[Raximillian]

You can already flag yourself as LFG and you'll come up in a list via the social window. There's also the suggestion above, an LFG channel- I hope better chat channel support comes along in future patches, which will make that kind of thing a more viable solution- like being able to search for channels, and moderate them.

 

It only lists people in your area, and you cannot search for people wanting the same thing. So yeah, the flag is a start, they should develop that a lot more. And more importantly, make it global.