Please Make Hard Mode Flashpoints Worth it.

[Warrgames]

Well now that the whole fiasco of chapter 16 is going to die down a few days, I thought its time to get back to the war on group content..

 

You mean your silly meltdown over 224 relic?

[peter_plankskull]

You mean your silly meltdown over 224 relic?

 

Well.. tha... that too... but the early access/maintenance problems and opinions on bug fixes and QOL changes.

[peter_plankskull]

Maybe... maybe now chapter 16 is finally sweeping over and we can get deco drop chances increased at least for hard mode flashpoints.

[LyraineAlei]

I actually really like this idea... it encourages multiple playthroughs without offsetting the precious balance in group content without favoring one or the other and brings incentive to group content. I just hope they can actually make some good looking vanity items that doesn't come from the CM for once, and if they do, make the drop chance more than 15%. I have honestly only received two pets from runs over the years when doing flashpoints, and I would love to have more to show off or obtain in a way that isn't directly controlled by the amount of credits I have.

 

^ And the person you quoted as well have great methods to bring people in.

 

At this time, I've jumped into Tact queues now and discovered how woefully unprepared Solo Mode made me (Wait, that guy setting off four rockets at once was a bug, and I was supposed to stay off the path inbetween them all that seemed to be safe in Solo? Or I was supposed to move the droid into a trap zone, not just try to kill his handler really fast with GSIsus?). But other than the leveling speed and that it's useful for the tactical achievement, I don't have a real motive for doing even Tactical FPs because HMs are just going to drop the same stuff for more work - supposedly level appropriate purple gear by final boss and DPS blues by the rest which doesn't help my tank Sin/Shadow/Vanguard/PTs while my Snipe/Guns/Mara/Sent don't care because the purple or blues will be replaced by the next set of heroics.

 

But if HMs had a better deco drop rate (since they can't be solo'd anymore), or dropped armor shells of the armor they used to drop (I remember running Story Modes pre-4.0 just to try and get full armor sets from those FPs before stats were redone), my interest would go up and I'd be throwing myself into the queues and getting better at what I try to do with my classes to work towards HM FPs. Pets are a hit-and-miss for me personally, as are vehicles, but I have a hard time passing up armor shells.

 

I don't remember, but to HM FPs reward some of the higher quality crystals? If not, maybe having them drop 5 of the blue and one of the purples a day or something could help?

[VegasTheLost]

-SNIP-

 

I don't remember, but to HM FPs reward some of the higher quality crystals? If not, maybe having them drop 5 of the blue and one of the purples a day or something could help?

 

You're making quite good points here! I do believe that even some nice shells gives more means to do them. However the crystal increase is not in my favor, and it really doesn't matter how much you get from them. If we run them from time to time we will have more than enough. But as you've said some cool shells, decos, pets, mounts, anything would give more incentive to run them. Heck it don't even have to be shells, if for example a cool looking armor set can be farmed and even if it just green or blue, unmoddable, but good looking, that's more than enough means to farm these HM FPs. It don't have to be suuuuper cool like the stuff from CM, but just nice. And obviously, there are a lot of folks out there collecting pets and mounts. Decos as well, our guild bought a guild ship not so long ago(because of transfer, we had to buy another) and we're really lacking some nice decos. And I'm talking about decos from Maelstrom Prison and Foundry, not those exclusive ones from packs. We would gladly farm to get a bunch of these...

[peter_plankskull]

^ And the person you quoted as well have great methods to bring people in.

 

At this time, I've jumped into Tact queues now and discovered how woefully unprepared Solo Mode made me (Wait, that guy setting off four rockets at once was a bug, and I was supposed to stay off the path inbetween them all that seemed to be safe in Solo? Or I was supposed to move the droid into a trap zone, not just try to kill his handler really fast with GSIsus?). But other than the leveling speed and that it's useful for the tactical achievement, I don't have a real motive for doing even Tactical FPs because HMs are just going to drop the same stuff for more work - supposedly level appropriate purple gear by final boss and DPS blues by the rest which doesn't help my tank Sin/Shadow/Vanguard/PTs while my Snipe/Guns/Mara/Sent don't care because the purple or blues will be replaced by the next set of heroics.

The final boss can drop any type of gear, but it VERY RARELY, if ever, will pertain to you since theirs no personal drops. So unless you're running a flashpoint with multiple classes that pertain to what you chosen, you probably wont get a drop, and as you said, its easily replaceable. The 220 gear from EC is actually fully optimized, given its grindy as hell, but still far better.

 

I don't remember, but to HM FPs reward some of the higher quality crystals? If not, maybe having them drop 5 of the blue and one of the purples a day or something could help?

 

Blue/blowing crystals for the most part are useless unless you have a knack for using/selling isotopes, and only ultimate/radiant/purple comms drop from the weekly. You get x4 common and x2 glowing for standard bosses, and x8 common and x4 glowing for bonus and final.

[PatT]

Bioware has a long history of eliminating the rewards for playing the game. Ostensibly to stop credit farmers. so they cut the $ on kills. Eliminate chests. cut $ on money bosses. It's getting really, really old.

 

It's time they give something back. if the problem is credit sellers, how about addressing credit sellers instead of penalizing the players? I've been playing other games more and *gasp* even reading books lately...

[Transcendent]

Bioware has a long history of eliminating the rewards for playing the game. Ostensibly to stop credit farmers. so they cut the $ on kills. Eliminate chests. cut $ on money bosses. It's getting really, really old.

 

Indeed.

 

I still don't get how HM flashpoints used to drop decorations frequently pre 4.0, yet 4.0 came along and the drop rates on decos were literally nerfed into the ground (I've seen one deco drop in the whole of doing DvL Flashpoint Master). I was quite happy running HM flashpoints solo pre 4.0 for purely decos and some nice Orange Shells.

 

Orange Shells have completely gone from the flashpoints, which is a shame as those give an incentive for the set collectors to run the content. Same for decorations, those should be a 100% drop chance from at least one boss in HM flashpoints, even if it's the very last boss or the bonus bosses only.

 

I definitely don't agree with some of the 4.0 loot table changes, I get the bit about making Operations loot table changes, but to alter HM flashpoints so drastically surely only affects participation?

[Andryah]

Indeed.

 

I still don't get how HM flashpoints used to drop decorations frequently pre 4.0, yet 4.0 came along and the drop rates on decos were literally nerfed into the ground (I've seen one deco drop in the whole of doing DvL Flashpoint Master). I was quite happy running HM flashpoints solo pre 4.0 for purely decos and some nice Orange Shells.

 

Orange Shells have completely gone from the flashpoints, which is a shame as those give an incentive for the set collectors to run the content. Same for decorations, those should be a 100% drop chance from at least one boss in HM flashpoints, even if it's the very last boss or the bonus bosses only.

 

I definitely don't agree with some of the 4.0 loot table changes, I get the bit about making Operations loot table changes, but to alter HM flashpoints so drastically surely only affects participation?

 

They messed with almost all the various loot tables in 4.0 from previous releases. A general shift in their core infrastructure surrounding content is the way I see it. My guess is they got some right and some wrong in the process. Then again.. toning down rewards in FPs might be intentional on their part. Either way, nothing we can do about it other then make entries in the suggestion forum.

 

Personally, I don't run content like FPs for the rewards, and never have. They have always been a poor investment of time vs reward, not just post 4.0, IMO. I'll run them for achievements, or as part of a guild run, or to lend a hand to someone I know.... but that's about it. I never saw them as "farm worthy".

Edited August 13, 2016 by Andryah

[LyraineAlei]

You're making quite good points here! I do believe that even some nice shells gives more means to do them. However the crystal increase is not in my favor, and it really doesn't matter how much you get from them. If we run them from time to time we will have more than enough. But as you've said some cool shells, decos, pets, mounts, anything would give more incentive to run them. Heck it don't even have to be shells, if for example a cool looking armor set can be farmed and even if it just green or blue, unmoddable, but good looking, that's more than enough means to farm these HM FPs. It don't have to be suuuuper cool like the stuff from CM, but just nice. And obviously, there are a lot of folks out there collecting pets and mounts. Decos as well, our guild bought a guild ship not so long ago(because of transfer, we had to buy another) and we're really lacking some nice decos. And I'm talking about decos from Maelstrom Prison and Foundry, not those exclusive ones from packs. We would gladly farm to get a bunch of these...

 

The final boss can drop any type of gear, but it VERY RARELY, if ever, will pertain to you since theirs no personal drops. So unless you're running a flashpoint with multiple classes that pertain to what you chosen, you probably wont get a drop, and as you said, its easily replaceable. The 220 gear from EC is actually fully optimized, given its grindy as hell, but still far better.

 

Blue/blowing crystals for the most part are useless unless you have a knack for using/selling isotopes, and only ultimate/radiant/purple comms drop from the weekly. You get x4 common and x2 glowing for standard bosses, and x8 common and x4 glowing for bonus and final.

 

I couldn't remember for certain about the crystals thing, just that I had a vague memory of running an HM as a Solo OL'd character and getting a paltry number of those equivalent tokens back pre-4.0, so thank you for refreshing my memory.

 

And Vegas, I totally know how you feel. As I had said in the post you quoted of mine, I personally farmed several FP (story modes at the time) for the armor shells to RE if I couldn't wear/use them (if RE was possible), or collect to try and get a whole set (if there was a set to be had).

 

I also ran FPs for decorations (False Emperor statues, I still need more to make my DK stronghold's section for my Wrath pre-SoR to look even more ... loyal or something. And those Republic/Imperial computers!).

 

Even if the designated Special Reward Boss didn't always drop, say Decos, if they dropped from a loot table of pets, vehicles, armor shells, decos, that would still give motive to run the content more often.

[DarthEnrique]

HM flashpoint queuing takes too long...

[Slowpokeking]

I agree, tried only one HM after 4.0 and it was Rakata Prime, it was more difficult than 95% of the SM ops bosses. HM FP should get EV/KP HM level reward.

[DreadtechSavant]

Before you do anything about HM FP's, how about making bounty hunts worth doing again BW?

 

If you are still levelling these BH's are sort of OK, but totally worthless once you have max rep and at level 65. Kingpins are even more pointless. This is an event you put on approx. every 4-5 weeks.

 

As for HM FP's, well don't do them so don't know if they are worth it or not, I do wish though that the exotic material could be gotten elsewhere. (no, not worth 25 crystals to buy just 1) Yet again something only for group content, which according to group content players get nothing. Some how don't feel sorry for you at all.

Edited August 14, 2016 by DreadtechSavant

[Anzel]

OMG these are so boring it's melting my brain

[ZanyaCross]

Please Bioware, make them worth it again.

 

As of right now, hard mode flashpoints don't have anything going for them other than a one time play though for the DVL event which usually attracts players who aren't ready for that content. The ONE thing going for it, the DVL event, actually creates a negative action. My suggestions from my own personal opinion, is that the gear should be bumped to 220 optimized for standard bosses depending on the flashpoint, and 220 set bonus for bonus bosses depending on which ones you defeat as well.

 

Their use to be this gearing ring that existed pre 4.0... it went - solo content>story mode flashpoint> hard mode flashpoints> operations. That exists no longer and I would argue even tacticals in terms of gearing have no point, their only used for XP, but at least that's something. Due to the bolster in story mode operations being so strong, all you have to do is show up with a slot filled and voila, its passable with no optimization or preparation at all, only a modicum of skill. This now leaves hard mode flashpoints completely void of any and all purpose as they aren't worth the time and effort anymore.

 

Another problem I find with these are the lack of brackets, I mean why should Esseles reward the same drops as blood hunt when its simply far easier? Should that droid in Esseles, the bonus boss, really reward the same gear as Commander Moken in Battle of Rishi? They need to bring brackets back for hard mode flashpoints in terms of gear drops and have "personal drops," like they do in tacticals, to ensure that everyone gets a worthwhile piece for their effort for what they have accomplished. Theirs only 4 gear drops anymore in hard mode flashpoints, and that's assuming you somehow get a group willing to do bonus, and out of these 4, only two hold some use. Chances are it won't even pertain to your class either, as it not only could drop a tank/DPS/healing gear, but one of the 8 offhands or main hands that pertains to the different advanced classes which leaves no hope in the galaxy to ever get something that pertains to you. Personal drops will be a god send will be implemented if you, for whatever reason, don't wish to make hard mode flashpoints worth it in terms of effort used to obtain gear.

 

My biggest gripe with hard mode flashpoints is how far their easily overshadowed by story mode operations. It's like hard mode flashpoints is the "special" red headed step child in a family full of blond hair and blue eyes anymore. Farming story mode operations is far easier than most hard mode flashpoints and gives far better rewards with a set bonus that is optimized, decorations for personal use or to sell, and a DMC. Theirs much more value in running these, and while it is only doable once per week, they could always swap toons and use legacy gear to further progress. Maybe they don't have alts somehow are or new to the game, but yes, the lockout is still a problem, however it's still infinitely more useful to wait a week than farming countless hard mode flashpoints over time. You can run them till the cows come home maxing out achievements, and the reward will never measure up to the unlimited power of operations.

 

I would also like to see decoration drop rates restored or bumped up so they actually drop more than 5% of the time to give another added bonus and audience inclined to run these, as vanity items will create a better incentive to do the bonus boss. Even as far as going adding more vanity items such as pets...additional mounts... decorations...titles... anything to increase it with fluff would be nice if you don't want to give them a purpose for gearing anymore.

 

Please Bioware, you can do it, make it worthwhile again.

 

As a representation of what it's like to read this post, I present images of people drowning in wine

 

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/134365585-new-jersey-resident-drowning-into-a-wine-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=ccr8YjaOH8K63AZyPGrLxwjxrHl9USRnWY9WzEMBKiNCsGnwB76GJMf8jRoGCnGE

 

https://bigpinekey.com/wp-content/uploads/duke-of-clarence-drowning.jpg

[DarthEnrique]

As a representation of what it's like to read this post, I present images of people drowning in wine

 

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/gc/134365585-new-jersey-resident-drowning-into-a-wine-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=ccr8YjaOH8K63AZyPGrLxwjxrHl9USRnWY9WzEMBKiNCsGnwB76GJMf8jRoGCnGE

 

https://bigpinekey.com/wp-content/uploads/duke-of-clarence-drowning.jpg

Why are you being rude? It presents a real problem to those trying to do the Dark Vs Light Event and it's not right that they can't get the Legendary Status cause people don't want to do Hard Mode flashpoints, honestly that was a dumb move on Bioware's part they should have known that'd be an issue but noooooooo they put it in anyway so why don't you take things into consideration before calling someone a whiner for a legit problem because they effed up a lot of the hard mode flashpoints after 4.0, lot of people leave right as soon as they get pulled into any from Shadow of Revan because that's how bad it is.

[kirorx]

I used to do hard mode flashpoints all the time.

 

Now I never do them; this is because the pay out from sm ops is better.

 

So I suppose I agree

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I agree, tried only one HM after 4.0 and it was Rakata Prime, it was more difficult than 95% of the SM ops bosses. HM FP should get EV/KP HM level reward.

 

As mentioned before, it is crazy to think you should get a HM OPs reward for a FP. You can farm FPs over and over again, and no, they are not as difficult as even KP or EV HMs, unless you have a crappy team, with no skill and crappy gear.

 

if the had a priority HM that you could do once a week, I could almost say that would work. But it should only deliver maybe a piece of 216 or 220 gear, with no set bonus.

Edited August 15, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Why are you being rude? It presents a real problem to those trying to do the Dark Vs Light Event and it's not right that they can't get the Legendary Status cause people don't want to do Hard Mode flashpoints, honestly that was a dumb move on Bioware's part they should have known that'd be an issue but noooooooo they put it in anyway so why don't you take things into consideration before calling someone a whiner for a legit problem because they effed up a lot of the hard mode flashpoints after 4.0, lot of people leave right as soon as they get pulled into any from Shadow of Revan because that's how bad it is.

 

Yesh what were they thinking expecting a challenging goal for a "Legenday" achievement. Crazy right?

[Khevar]

I agree, tried only one HM after 4.0 and it was Rakata Prime, it was more difficult than 95% of the SM ops bosses. HM FP should get EV/KP HM level reward.

Well it's good thing you have a large sample size to make this decision.

 

One attempt at an HM FP should be enough to make anyone an expert.

 

[BlackbirdofSith]

Having made a Healer and Tank for the DvL achievements. I made sure to be at least 216 geared before HM Flashpoints because a bolster can only do so much.

I've noticed a lot of groups with people undergeared and all sorts of no idea for HMs. It's to the point where I'm just not going to bother with the last achievement for the event or gonna convert them to DPS for the HM FP runs. It's not worth the headaches and repair bills.

Nothing against new players but I cannot handle the constant influx of wips.

As for the Deco and Mounts, more would be nice but I mostly run them for a change up from Heroics.

Edited August 16, 2016 by BlackbirdofSith

[Transcendent]

They messed with almost all the various loot tables in 4.0 from previous releases. A general shift in their core infrastructure surrounding content is the way I see it. My guess is they got some right and some wrong in the process. Then again.. toning down rewards in FPs might be intentional on their part. Either way, nothing we can do about it other then make entries in the suggestion forum.

 

Personally, I don't run content like FPs for the rewards, and never have. They have always been a poor investment of time vs reward, not just post 4.0, IMO. I'll run them for achievements, or as part of a guild run, or to lend a hand to someone I know.... but that's about it. I never saw them as "farm worthy".

 

Quite a lot of the loot changes made I don't mind too much. I think they took away too much in terms of the Orange Shells from rewards and also the vendors in 4.0, however the Heroic gear rewards work pretty well when levelling (assuming you don't get DPS gear when playing a tank....). They may well have toned down some of the drops for decorations intentionally, but to what end? Both of those changes smack of pushing players intentionally towards the Cartel Market (yes, I am cynical!).

 

Reward vs time investment is important here and I'm glad you mentioned it (it is partially the intent of the thread after all ) If players decide the rewards are not worth the time investment, they will not run the content. Like you though, I tend to run for achievements and not just the rewards.

 

Having made a Healer and Tank for the DvL achievements. I made sure to be at least 216 geared before HM Flashpoints because a bolster can only do so much.

 

208 PvP gear is perfectly fine, don't discount players wearing it as they'll probably have some inclination as to what they are doing. I must admit though, having seen players come into HM flashpoints in level 40 heroic gear? I feel that some kind of minimum level gear check is required to participate in HM flashpoints, so as not to waste other players time.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Transcendent

[Tharandil]

When I click GF for HM I almost allways get paired for Bloodhunt. I don't mind it as long as the pugs are decent geared. Preferably 216 for this one at least! Most pugs don't even get near this and when I point it out they shrug it off. After five wipes at the first boss I had enough. To me it is a pain because I do need Bloodhunt and Battle of Rishi for DvL.. Edited August 16, 2016 by Tharandil

[demotivator]

When I click GF for HM I almost allways get paired for Bloodhunt. I don't mind it as long as the pugs are decent geared. Preferably 216 for this one at least! Most pugs don't even get near this and when I point it out they shrug it off. After five wipes at the first boss I had enough. To me it is a pain because I do need Bloodhunt and Battle of Rishi for DvL..

 

At this point I don't care anymore about being a jerk. When I get a HM Blood Hunt if there is one undergeared person (under 216 and/or no augments) I ask for a kick which usually ends with the person being all pissy because they think they can just come in with their XP gear filled with lvl 60 greens. If there are 2 undergeared, I just leave which also ends with people being pissy once again about it.

 

People are just so clueless. But leveling all 8 classes for the event reminded me why. Every solo flashpoint is a walk in the park, absolutely none of the mechanics matter. Korriban incursion for instance, I was curious about standing in the blow up area of the "suicide droids" and your HP doesn't even drop more than 5%. Then you have people coming in HM Korriban and getting one shot because they thought: "hey standing in stupid does nothing."

 

Even in tactical, mechanics are meaningless. Take Czerka Corporate Labs, Chief Zokar's rockets should kill you so that people learn that you should avoid them. No wonder you get people not even moving from the telegraphs in HM...

Edited August 16, 2016 by demotivator

[Greezt]

Hah. I've been running all the HM FP (two each night) with a friend (two manning them with our companions) on DvL toons. I usually go with toons that have a mixture of drop gear and the intro implants/relics you get from warzones.

 

Gear doesn't matter.

 

Edit: we do this because we are indeed tired of carrying arsenal mercs in plasma cell or sages who use saber strike.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Greezt