Lowbies needs reworked

[LordCuddlesy]

How about this; what if lowbies would be level synced to the lowest level in match? Say everyone's abilities above that level disappeared? Better still, naked match where your gear disappeared as well?

 

Everyone in this thread seem to treat lowbies as some serious business for old timers instead of, you know, introduction and a practice bracket? Besides, you level up really fast, don't take too long and you're in the midbies, which I feel is a slightly more serious bracket any way.

 

Lowbies is good for leveling as well as crash course to your skills and figuring out the maps. But it's no fun when there's "I delete and remake the same class I've played for years bc 65s is broken(?) and I want to farm n00bs" people who never leave the bracket. but instead have the nerve to complain about stupid people who don't know what to do in a bracket I assume was originally meant for new players...

[DarthMaulUK]

Brackets need removing - period. Its utter nonsense the argument 'players need to learn their abilities', especially when most of those key abilities only arrive late game.

 

Removing gear, removing brackets and making everyone 65 will increase pvp pops, remove the headache from bolster and make it much more fun for everyone. Bioware could turn one of the capital ships into a PvP training area with more warzone dummies for players to try stuff on.

 

Or just make the combat area - a combat area and place dummies there and keep it all central. With Warcraft removing the gear grind, adding a new skill tree just for PvP - that is and has been the future for many years. It's a shame SWTOR won't adopt it (Musco said that in the recent interview with Snave) - so removing brackets would be the next best thing.

 

When the next expansion arrives, it will probably get worse, with the Lowbie bracket extending again to 10-45, 46-69 mids and 70 top. IF they introduce 5 new levels.

Edited August 2, 2016 by DarthMaulUK

[Jherad]

Brackets need removing - period. Its utter nonsense the argument 'players need to learn their abilities', especially when most of those key abilities only arrive late game.

 

As as seasoned PvPer, I'd love that - particularly for new toons. I'd never really need to go out and level ever again. But it could *completely* discourage new players from trying out PvP. They'd get rolled so hard their eyes would bleed.

 

Games always need a 'training wheels' section of PvP if they want new blood to try it. Have we completely given up on SWTOR attracting new players? Heh. Maybe.

[Vashadan]

The only change I would call for is moving the entry level for PvP from 10 to 20.

It is a simple change, and it would make little to no difference as even preferred get experience gain slowed down once they reach level 20.

I am sure some would object, but it is not like that there are no other ways to get to 20 fast.

And yes, there are some classes/specs which would still need another 10+ levels to make them "more" competitive, which somewhat depends on the player and also on your team, but this bracket is for learning anyway.

 

Oh well, mini game for life....

[Cyber-Blade]

I agree, I think the tiers should be:

10-30

31-50

51-64

[DarthMaulUK]

I agree, I think the tiers should be:

10-30

31-50

51-64

 

And which tree are you going to shake to get the players from to fill those brackets?

[Technohic]

As as seasoned PvPer, I'd love that - particularly for new toons. I'd never really need to go out and level ever again. But it could *completely* discourage new players from trying out PvP. They'd get rolled so hard their eyes would bleed.

 

Games always need a 'training wheels' section of PvP if they want new blood to try it. Have we completely given up on SWTOR attracting new players? Heh. Maybe.

 

What if they removed the brackets completely; and then did matchmaking based on character level for each team with cross faction; and had a hidden player rating to match off of as well and every character started at the lowest possible rating?

[Jherad]

What if they removed the brackets completely; and then did matchmaking based on character level for each team with cross faction; and had a hidden player rating to match off of as well and every character started at the lowest possible rating?

 

It's a great idea in theory at least. But I suspect waaay too complicated for BW to consider implementing now. Also ripe for abuse - I could see a whole bunch of trolly pvpers in groups creating lvl 1 toons just to nuke newbies - because there would be literally no barrier to entry. 30 seconds to roll a character, troll until you 'rate out' of the lowest tier, delete character, start over.

[PlagaNerezza]

OMG. First time I have done lowbies (not mids) in years. I generally think it is pointless with so few abilities but I didn't want to do PvE stuff. After fighting for a while, I realized not only do I have poor resource mangement and lack of abilities at level 11; I also do not have gear. Talk about an act in futility.

 

I should probably know better since I have been around since bolsters inception, but in their efforts to make top level PvP more fair for the people who have had now 65 levels to figure it out; they have new players fresh off the starter planets first trip into PvP, probably not having a clue; have that as their first taste similar to back in the day when you had no expertise at max level.

 

No wonder PvP is dwindling. I imagine there are a lot of players that try it and quit without saying a thing. I had a "duh" moment and should know better but new players won't.

 

I suggest raising the minimum PvP level to 25 and then add a freaking tutorial that explains stats and bolster. That or completely normalize all stats in lowbies at least.

 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

PVP levels you almost 5 levels in this event just for doing the starters. Sure I am cannon fodder, but cannon fodder that is getting leveled up quickly.

[beattlebilly]

When the DvL event started, and I took my first new toon through the PvP quests, the intro quest and the daily, I got 7 freaking levels for turning them in. So yea, you can jump in there at lvl 10'ish, but if you get that intro quest and first daily quest turned in, you will make insane EXP.

 

And being a super low level in those can actually be beneficial to your team, because the other team will hunt you down, so you can be a distraction I do that a lot when I get into lowbie PvP and I am sub-20, I'll run those idiots around while they have to make themselves feel "uber" killing the lowbies

Edited August 3, 2016 by beattlebilly

[TwoLekku]

however, you said something in another post (I think it was you) about wanting to keep lowbie because you learn your binds slowly.

 

I strenuously disagree (strenuously? you strenuously object? heh). if you are putting those binds where they would be when you have a full complement of abilities, then you are either clicking them or moving them to obscure keys or alt binds. because most of what you have to work with for the first 10 levels isn't what you'll be working with when you get all or even half of your abilities.

 

...SNIP...

 

I do feel strongly that you learn a whole lot of nothing about your AC between 10-20. too much is missing. and only a little bit more the next 10 levels. that's your character/AC. the way you have to play the maps is quite different, and we could fruitfully argue the merits to having to pass the ball vs. having movement buffs that allow you to carry, etc. there are strong arguments on both sides there. here, however, I really don't see how an actual lowbie (teens and 20s) is learning valuable lessons about how to play his AC.

 

:2cents:

 

On one hand, sure, i don't often jump into lowbies before lvl 20 because (and this is just personal) i like to have at least a few core abilities going for me. On the other hand, no - take my virulence sniper for example - getting cull at lvl 26 meant that from 26-40 i was working with the standard dot dot cull abilities and learning to do that without thinking so that i could actually be thinking about position or def CD's or whatever.

 

It's different on each spec, naturally, but from the mid20's onward you're adding a lot of core skills. I put obscure abilities on obscure binds from the beginning and as soon as i have enough core abilities to be able to enjoy myself, i'm leveling through pvp and loving it. It's how i went from being a full clicker in 1.1 to fully keybound by 2.0, and from levels 24ish onward i was literally "learning valuable lessons about how to play an AC" in lowbies.

 

This is exactly what ppl should be doing when we ask them to learn to play better instead of whining for buffs or nerfs or whatever. Newer players should be using lowbies and mids to encounter different scenarios over and over again and improve their understanding and play with no consequences.

 

We don't need less skill in pvp, and doing away with a decent training ground (i.e. eliminating lowbies) is not a good suggestion.

[foxmob]

This is exactly what ppl should be doing when we ask them to learn to play better instead of whining for buffs or nerfs or whatever. Newer players should be using lowbies and mids to encounter different scenarios over and over again and improve their understanding and play with no consequences.

 

We don't need less skill in pvp, and doing away with a decent training ground (i.e. eliminating lowbies) is not a good suggestion.

 

it would be better on the whole just to dump more abilities on you at 10 or raise the barrier to pvp up to 20 or 25. let's be honest, you level crazy fast through the teens. so having to "wait" a whole 10 levels while in the teens is like...one planet or less. do all the quests on hutta and you're over 20 before you hit the handful of freebies on fleet. but iunno. kinda put too much "ink" on this in the first place. I began by saying it's lowbies. it's transitory. but...it's also not the unicorns and rainbows learning experience that ppl talk about. not at the lower levels of lowbie anyway.

[MuskyBoy]

My solution is give all abilities upon selecting your advanced class and make PVP 65 and sub 65. Problem solved.

[Technohic]

My solution is give all abilities upon selecting your advanced class and make PVP 65 and sub 65. Problem solved.

 

That would be fine by me, but you'll get some people complain tgat MMOs are about progression.

[foxmob]

That would be fine by me, but you'll get some people complain tgat MMOs are about progression.

 

RPGs are about progression. but RPGs have zero to do with PVP in MMORPGs. MMORPGs are the evolution of turn-based RPGs. there's no PVP in Dragon Warrior, for instance. there are plenty PVP games that are MMO. anyway, my point is that the emphasis on progression and character evolution has its basis in RPG, not PVP.

[-Bob-]

it would be better on the whole just to dump more abilities on you at 10 or raise the barrier to pvp up to 20 or 25. let's be honest, you level crazy fast through the teens. so having to "wait" a whole 10 levels while in the teens is like...one planet or less. do all the quests on hutta and you're over 20 before you hit the handful of freebies on fleet. but iunno. kinda put too much "ink" on this in the first place. I began by saying it's lowbies. it's transitory. but...it's also not the unicorns and rainbows learning experience that ppl talk about. not at the lower levels of lowbie anyway.

 

If putting a barrier on pvp until 20-25 happened like you suggest then i, for one, would never level a new character.

I can't stand running the story missions and associated pve content, it just bores me. I wouldn't be motivated to deal with 10 extra levels of that, even if it only took an hour to do. Thats just how i feel about it.

[MuskyBoy]

EAware have made the levelling process trivial now with XP boosters and the Op companions. With level sync having all abilities is no drama as you can kill final class bosses with 3 hits now (see bara/thanaton) so progression in levelling is a joke now you can also spam basic and let your companion do all the work too. Also with tactical FP's being introduced into the game having for example four lvl 17's on Ortuno in DoM is kind of stupid since he hits too hard for player with 1 defensive CD (remember Bioware created Tac Fp's so everyone who participates in them should have a reasonable fighting chance). Again I repeat just give every ability upon selecting an AC and its easier to bolster, allows lowbie PVP to be made into 1 bracket (therefore more pops), gives new players 50 levels to learn their class and makes tactical FP's fairer. This is the answer.

[foxmob]

If putting a barrier on pvp until 20-25 happened like you suggest then i, for one, would never level a new character.

I can't stand running the story missions and associated pve content, it just bores me. I wouldn't be motivated to deal with 10 extra levels of that, even if it only took an hour to do. Thats just how i feel about it.

 

good. I'm sick of this lowbie **** in the first place.

[beattlebilly]

good. I'm sick of this lowbie **** in the first place.

 

Or you could just not do it until you yourself hit lvl 20-25, and let it for people that do like to do lowbie pvp before they hit lvl 20-25.

 

And as I mentioned earlier, it's not like they are staying in the bottom of the tier for very long anyway. If they do the Intro quest and the Daily quest, you get 7 levels from them.

[foxmob]

Or you could just not do it until you yourself hit lvl 20-25, and let it for people that do like to do lowbie pvp before they hit lvl 20-25.

 

And as I mentioned earlier, it's not like they are staying in the bottom of the tier for very long anyway. If they do the Intro quest and the Daily quest, you get 7 levels from them.

 

don't mistake the quantity of my posts for my intellectual commitment to the issue. I've made every substantive point from your post pages ago (we agree on the transitory nature of lowbie). and...that still puts 10-25 players both on my team and opposite me when I join the "fun" at 30. so...fairly unbalanced whether I'm the player with no abilities or synergy or someone else in the WZ is. but...w/e.

Edited August 10, 2016 by foxmob

[beattlebilly]

Meh, I've been in plenty of warzones on a team with sub-30's vs 30s+, and we won or had very close losses. And on the same token, have had plenty of spectacular losses with them too. But then again, that's happened when I've been on a team with 30s+ too. It's not their levels that makes it a bad team, it's the players behind the chars. Edited August 11, 2016 by beattlebilly