Yunaselly Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Just try using Non Stealth class without Companion... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsillah Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Just because some people find the game easy doesn't mean everyone does. There is a different between veteran player and new comer starting from level 1. Not only in legacy perks but understanding class mechs. And yet, that's how we all started in the beginning...you know the time before the game was made a lot easier to level through. Personally I would be ok with getting ridiculous xp for story missions and have them be at least a bit challenging. At the same time I do recognize that the range of competence of players is a big range. So my suggestion, since the main encounters are instanced, is to have a HM version of the story instances that people can choose to play that is a lot harder. That way people have a choice and it doesn't affect the persistent world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Khevar, Just because the game has tooltip for each ability does not mean it teach you when need to use it. You figure it out. Its not like you die and your next try the game tells you to use X ability to over come that attack. You are one splitting hairs over what learning and teaching is. They aren't the same thing. The game creates opportunity to learn. Some people will learn because they are good at learning through trail and error. Some people are not going to learn that way. Some people learn by having someone explain it to them. So people learn by reading a strategy guide. I thought I made myself perfectly clear about that. Its why upping the difficultly will not get more people to learn because not everyone learns that way. Only those that learn through hands on will benefit. You and narrow mind people like you can't seem to get that basic concept through your thick skulls. This game is design for different people will different likes and dislikes, different ways of learning and different ideas of funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 And yet, that's how we all started in the beginning...you know the time before the game was made a lot easier to level through. Personally I would be ok with getting ridiculous xp for story missions and have them be at least a bit challenging. At the same time I do recognize that the range of competence of players is a big range. So my suggestion, since the main encounters are instanced, is to have a HM version of the story instances that people can choose to play that is a lot harder. That way people have a choice and it doesn't affect the persistent world. Where do set HM leveling? Everyone has different opinion on what is a good challenge/fun ratio is. If you talk about putting in a slider to adjust difficulty. What do you adjust? Mob HP and damage? Than you start moving into tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rklontz Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Where do set HM leveling? Everyone has different opinion on what is a good challenge/fun ratio is. If you talk about putting in a slider to adjust difficulty. What do you adjust? Mob HP and damage? Than you start moving into tedious. Tedious is using a one button aoe attack with a companion to level to 65. The game has been dumbed down to the point that there isn't anymore of a challenge than playing Farmville on facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Hmm.. back during the first 12xp event (since I didn't know there'd be an entire summer of 12xp), I decided to use that time to quickly populate my new primary server of choice (since I didn't know--eh, you get the idea), I leveled one character every day for two weeks, wearing only empty orange gear for looks and the weapon and offhand given on the starter planet, using no implants, earpieces or relics of any kind and using whatever role companion the game saw fit to provide me with first.. and.. okay, I didn't do that all the way to the end, by around lvl30-35 I'd have enough comms to fill up my set, would continue using those till I hit level cap, still with a companion in their starting outfit. The leveling game already was easy if you knew how to play. Did it get easier? Companions require no time/effort to be useful (and as many people like to overlook, it was possible to have similarly powerful companions in the past too; I think it was a good call to keep companions viable for difficult content because they were before), legacy datacrons give a huge boost.. I personally would've liked to seen unlocking those stats as optional.. and now that xp suit they gave us make the lower levels even more trivial. Should it change? For me the change in difficulty was substantially larger from the moment that I started playing to the day before 4.0 hit than any of the new changes caused. The game has to be easy for experienced players or it is too hard for new players. Companions need to be powerful because they removed our ability to have a say in it. The only reasonable alternative is to go back to gearing companions, but I don't believe that's a net win either. I would not mind 'HM' solo content, I'd also support better companion skill scaling (available abilities or make the effect of influence larger), but for any experienced player to say that leveling content is too easy.. I can only laugh. It already was easy to the point of being trivial for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The-Kaitou-Kid Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I just wanted to try something out and yes, the point was to show how EZ-Mode SWTOR is now with the dumbed-down gearing, no mainstats, and SuperDuper Companion Domination. Out of curiosity, can you explain exactly where the "difficulty" was in choosing the main stat the game told you was for your class and nothing else? It's not like tertiary stats where there are "best" stats for each role but the game lets you figure them out with minimal help, the game explicitly told you what main stat to use. You *could* use other main stats, sure, but it was never a better choice than your proper main stat and you were told which one was yours and shown on a constant basis through mission rewards. There was never a real choice there and thus no difficulty outside of the potential to catch people who paid no attention to any of the signs about what their main stat was. Beyond that, being told "You're a Knight, pick Strength." and then picking Strength wasn't exactly showing amazing deductive reasoning skills and overcoming great difficulty. You followed the big neon signs pointing you to Strength and picked Strength. I don't see any difficulty in that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrutchCricket Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Crutch, it seems nothing is impressing you about any of this and you're not being very nice about it so I'll ask you to tell me what to do on my next character that you would approve of. I apologize if I was unduly abrasive. I will explain why in a minute but it has nothing to do with criticizing your run. In fact that's missing the point. The point is this game was never challenging in solo pve questing and equating the "missing" things you derived from your run to challenge is what kind of set me off. Gearing, mainstats, all of this is clicking and accounting when you get down to it. It is not challenging from a gameplay perspective, it's merely there to serve the grind. And as it's being demonstrated by current trends, grind is out of favor. What you're noticing in your run is that if you remove grind from the solo leveling game what's left is pretty insubstantial. And you're absolutely right. The gameplay of WoW clones such as this is nothing to write home about. Press numbers to make numbers pop up onscreen until the enemy numbers are zero. But then that specific aspect of it is not a selling point for anyone. The story people just want to get through that to their next cutscene and dialog choices, the RPers just wanna RP and use emotes, and the endgamers enjoy the group content of endgame where the emergent gameplay of group dynamics and/or boss mechanics are where the fun (and challenge) comes from. That and ok, maybe some of them care about the epeen of their BIS numbers but that's obtained through aforementioned group content, not the solo leveling stuff. So the solo leveling gameplay experience is only a means to whatever niche end you happen to gun for. Getting worked up over it isn't worth it. And not much can be done at this point for it anyway, except put the grind back in which is an emphatic no-no. The right way to do it would be with interesting solo boss mechanics. But we both know that kind of reworking is not going to happen. Edited July 31, 2016 by CrutchCricket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReverendAnderson Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Someone who has been playing the game longer has a higher level of skill that makes the game easier for them, forgetting the whole max influence companions- the solution isn't to increase the difficulty on story progression. We've got Operations and HM flashpoints, World Bosses, warzones and trust me, you learn but you are a lot more competent than a new player starting out who will struggle with things you find easy and doesn't have certain bonuses. The OP ran naked to 65 a never died. There's no spin you can put on that to make it not poor game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul_of_Flames Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Decrease companion effectiveness, globally, by 15%. Decrease level sync level by 2 in all locations. Difficulty fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 (edited) Yes this game has gotten too easy. No, not everyone has the same ideas of what is difficult and what isnt. But if you can win most regular fights by doing NOTHING, no one can argue that it is not too easy. A companion should aid you and die occasionally, not fight for you. First time I went through this game (at launch) I died a couple of times. That doesnt mean it was too hard, I did not get frustrated, I tried it again and in different ways. There are still things that are difficult, I consider EC a challenge. HM FPs can be a challenge. Problem is that a lot of people fail at them because of the immense difference in difficulty between those aspects of the game and regular leveling. There really is little reason to think of strategy and skill usage until level 65....(almost) dying encourages learning. And no, constantly dying is no fun. But to constantly die whilst leveling in SWTOR, you either need to be a blind, deaf, comatose lobotomy patient or actively sabotage yourself (underleveling, no companion, no gear, etc.) PS: in case you want to play the "yes but you are an experienced SWTOR player with all legacy bonusses" card: my gf with no experience with MMORPGs at all, got to level 50 without dying even once. Edited July 31, 2016 by Gokkus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing_Shines Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Well, KOTFE has that super annoying start on Marr's ship where if you agree to it, the game strips you of you abilities and then parcels them out bit by bit and tries to get you to learn a few things about what your character can do. Mostly there for instant 60s who've never played the game before, but something like that which stepped in and told you what to do early in the game might help people. But not simply a tutorial page that they can click off. Make them actually use the ability the way it is intended or they can't move to the next part of the mission. Make the instructions voice overs/dialogue, since reading is hard. Plenty of games have these type of missions. For instance, Witcher 3 has the training sessions at Kaer Morhen that show you how each spell and combat move work and the mission doesn't advance until you use them correctly against Vesemir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahoukenshi Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 I'm only an average player (despite having played a few MMOs here and there) and a neurotic "clicker" . In my case, it clearly depends on the class + discipline I play. Like I cannot warm up to the Sith Juggernaut during my level phase as I feel like dead weight compared to my companion - ignoring reasons that are obviously my own fault - in the early H2 missions. With other characters this wasn't the case (and I didn't have to use heal-mode to "survive") despite some rough times. Again, I'm only an average low-ish skilled player and also die occationally in some H2 missions (eg. when there are two gold mobs to kill) and I certainly don't complain about it. But I agree that leveling up is VERY fast. By the start of Act 2 I'm usually around lvl 45 without doing repeatable content more than once. With my Jedi Consular I'm level 60 and am about to enter Corellia (which is I think the final story planet in Act 3). And I also agree that level scaling negatively affects the final story arc bosses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rklontz Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well, KOTFE has that super annoying start on Marr's ship where if you agree to it, the game strips you of you abilities and then parcels them out bit by bit and tries to get you to learn a few things about what your character can do. Mostly there for instant 60s who've never played the game before, but something like that which stepped in and told you what to do early in the game might help people. But not simply a tutorial page that they can click off. Make them actually use the ability the way it is intended or they can't move to the next part of the mission. Make the instructions voice overs/dialogue, since reading is hard. Plenty of games have these type of missions. For instance, Witcher 3 has the training sessions at Kaer Morhen that show you how each spell and combat move work and the mission doesn't advance until you use them correctly against Vesemir. If you pay attention to the story there is a reason why you don't have all your abilities back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merovejec Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well yeah, i just give the toons the xp gear and lvl till 50 without any issues, its primitive and takes only a few hours, there is nothing special about that, Bioware nerfed the game to the ground, thats why its so fun to play lowbie pvp now, you get to kill soooo many noobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 The game has NEVER thought anyone how to play. Or when to use interrupt and when not to. You could make to 50 without every learning or using interrupted. You could make it to 50 without an AC. EXACTLY!!! Commando/Merc didn't even have an interrupt at all for the first year+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsetso Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 EXACTLY!!! Commando/Merc didn't even have an interrupt at all for the first year+. Well, tbh they just didn't have time to use interrupt because of the super complex rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Well, tbh they just didn't have time to use interrupt because of the super complex rotation. Grav round > grav round > grav round > grav round >grav round >grav round >grav round...etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savej Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 I still remember things I learned playing "vanilla" swtor. vs the first class boss on Tython I learned that yes, I needed to use my companion. vs the level 24-ish fight I learned to interrupt (or die). And vs the final knight boss fight I learned what some of my companions abilities that weren't checked off by default were for. And how to curse at BW. Now? I'm pretty sure that I could have leveled the merc and operative I've been playing using one attack button and level 8-10 gear (on a legacy 24 account). For higher level heroics, fps and the EC that wouldn't work but the leveling and sub 65 gearing game is just broken at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothing_Shines Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) If you pay attention to the story there is a reason why you don't have all your abilities back. Next time, try to pay attention to what you are reading so your response isn't pointless. Maybe read beyond the first clause of the first sentence. The entire post explains why that happens and that it is optional and then suggests a variant based on another well-received game. Edited August 1, 2016 by Nothing_Shines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rklontz Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) Next time, try to pay attention to what you are reading so your response isn't pointless. Maybe read beyond the first clause of the first sentence. The entire post explains why that happens and that it is optional and then suggests a variant based on another well-received game. With or with out the insta 60 tokens the story would have been written the same. You can qq and offer all the suggestions you want but bioware will not change story content unless it's to clarify a gray area. Unless of course your entire issue is with how the insta 60 tokens are implemented. Then if it is this is the wrong thread to take the issue up in Edited August 1, 2016 by rklontz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Wait, I thought everybody played sans clothes? I mean obviously I still wear my tiara, but yeah, i can't be the only one? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Wait, I thought everybody played sans clothes? I mean obviously I still wear my tiara, but yeah, i can't be the only one? Right? Your not. I wear a tiara too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 Your not. I wear a tiara too. My respect for you before this post: |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| My respect for you after this post: |-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrgames Posted August 1, 2016 Share Posted August 1, 2016 (edited) My respect for you before this post: |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------| My respect for you after this post: |-| All I see in this post is JEALOUSY. Edited August 1, 2016 by Warrgames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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