ethanredmace Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) So anyways, I have been wondering who would win lore-wise, the Barsen'thor aka the light sided (game cannon) Jedi Counselor, or the dark sided (Sith Inquisitor) Darth Nox? Keep in mind, I haven't actually played nor actually watched any gameplays of the Jedi Counselor story, so I have absolutely no knowledge of their abilities/feats/and other things, but I have played the Sith Inquisitor story as full dark side, once. I think Darth Nox would crush the Barsen'thor because Nox is virtually unkillable unless you severe his connection to the ghosts, he's immortal, he blocked powerful lightning with just his hands, he used only the force to make Darth Thanaton of all people forcefully bow down to him, he easily ragdolled Darth Thanaton up against a wall, healed back to max health, defeated tons of worthy/powerful enemies easily in his class story, bound 4 or 5 force ghosts which is stated to be an exceptional talent and 99% of people who force-walk die, put Thanaton in a force-wirlwind for a few seconds, etc, etc. I could go on about how great Noxes' feats are and how powerful he is. He's also done many rituals and stuff, so who knows what all the tricks he has up his sleeves are. He might even have all the abilities the Corruption, Lightning, and Madness Sorc have combined because canonically Nox is a Sorcerer and a male but gender has nothing to do with this. Feel free to discuss this topic, but use actual lore facts instead of stuff like "I like Barsen'thor, so he would win.' You guys can also if you want to try and convince me why and how the Barsen'thor is much more powerful. Thanks. This topic isn't just for my question, its for fun, entertainment, and enjoyment. Enjoy. Edited November 14, 2017 by ethanredmace trying to put spoilers in the title because reasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Hello, everyone. How are y'all? Its me, Rated-T, SWTOR's most infamous/famous max level Imperial Operative on the Shadowlands server, but talking about me obviously isn't the point of this thread. So anyways, I have been wondering who would win lore-wise, the Barsen'thor aka the light sided (game cannon) Jedi Counselor aka the fat Counselor, or the dark sided (Sith Inquisitor) Darth Nox? Keep in mind, I haven't actually played nor actually watched any gameplays of the Jedi Counselor story, so I have absolutely no knowledge of their abilities/feats/and other things, but I have played the Sith Inquisitor story as full dark side, once. I think Darth Nox would crush the Barsen'thor because Nox is virtually unkillable unless you severe his connection to the ghosts, he's immortal, he blocked powerful lightning with just his hands, he used only the force to make Darth Thanaton of all people forcefully bow down to him, he easily ragdolled Darth Thanaton up against a wall, healed back to max health, defeated tons of worthy/powerful enemies easily in his class story, bound 4 or 5 force ghosts which is stated to be an exceptional talent and 99% of people who force-walk die, put Thanaton in a force-wirlwind for a few seconds, etc, etc. I could go on about how great Noxes' feats are and how powerful he is. He's also done many rituals and stuff, so who knows what all the tricks he has up his sleeves are. He might even have all the abilities the Corruption, Lightning, and Madness Sorc have combined because canonically Nox is a Sorcerer and a male but gender has nothing to do with this. Feel free to discuss this topic, but use actual lore facts instead of stuff like "I like Barsen'thor, so he would win.' You guys can also if you want to try and convince me why and how the Barsen'thor is much more powerful. Thanks. This topic isn't just for my question, its for fun, entertainment, and enjoyment. Enjoy. Much more powerful? Equal. Barsenthor was a title that hasn't been given to a Jedi in thousands of years. The Barsenthor gained this title by learning a technique that enabled him to shield others in the force and even maintain that shielding if necessary even after moving from the person's presence. This shielding technique killed most practitioners who tried to shield more than two people. Even then only very skilled and powerful Jedi were able to use the technique at all. Sound familiar? The Sorcerer was a Flow Walker, there hasn't been a flow walker in centuries, and most Flow Walkers, despite it being very rare, and them being powerful usually died when trying to consume more than two ghosts. The Barsenthor faced a Sith who had the ability to corrupt Jedi he was able to make a connection with. This corruption made the Jedi lose their minds, attacking and harming those around them, and the Barsenthor was able to shield these jedi and purge the darkness that was within them. The Barsenthor shielded 5 Jedi masters and was weakened each time. Despite this he fought the Plague Master after shielding the number of people and was still able to kill him despite being weakened and him being a powerful Lord with a very rare ability. The Barsenthor was able to do things like plow through large bulkheads with one hand using the force like a battering ram and fought The First Son (someone given the power of the Emperor) and defeated him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Oh, good god, another one of these threads. This is like the 4th one I've seen. I'll save you the trouble and tell you what'll happen right now: No one will agree, everyone will argue, it'll turn contentious and negative, and eventually this thread will be completely shut down because the same people who shut down the other threads will flock to this one and the process will repeat itself. The answer to your question is this: Both of them have equal power as far as the game is concerned. Since neither one is likely to come up against the other in-game, we'll never know which one is the best. If you want to compare one player's JC vs. another's SI, then it comes down to who plays their character better, and by better, I mean who is able to use their character's skill to their best advantage against someone who's powers are literally the exact opposite of yours. The SI uses powers to damage their enemies physically and mentally, and they use the power of Force-Walk to bind ghosts to them. The JC uses their powers to heal and protect themselves physically and mentally, and they use THEIR special powers to strip spirits of their powers, thus rendering them useless. Ultimately, it's a case of unmovable object vs. unstoppable force. There is no winner. I don't mean to sound hostile or rude about this, I'm just trying to say that these kinds of threads inevitably devolve into petty arguments without any clear consensus. The easy answer is, as I said above, that both are equal in power and neither would win in a contest of strength. You could argue that one would eventually wear out the other and then kill them which would result in a win, but there's no way to state which one would succeed without a doubt, because, as I said above, their powers just negate each other, rendering force-powers useless in a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Not to say it seem unhealthy.... Anyway , I love my Nox . I've got 5 of them While the aboves comment say they are equal , and I think the game was made that you know...all class are kinda equal somehow . And Thanathon wasn't that awesome or Strong . In the end he died in a lame fashion and so fast... If you wanna go Lore wise.... This would be untrue Nox is virtually unkillable unless you severe his connection to the ghosts, he's immortal If Nox refuse Valk power , she end up stabbed and only Valk save you . Somehow it seem you lost your Ghost.. Although , you could be alive due to your ghost and he could be lying...that damn sociopath... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveTheCynic Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 If Nox refuse Valk power , she end up stabbed and only Valk save you . Somehow it seem you lost your Ghost.. Pfft. Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Deus Ex Machina! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 And Thanathon wasn't that awesome or Strong . In the end he died in a lame fashion and so fast... As I said in another thread: That Thanaton was not THAT strong doesn't matter really, as the SI just stood there and let him throw (and take his time for more powerful attacks) his best attacks at the SI....who just tanked them and walked from them without a scratch:) Mind you that this was with the ghosts... If Nox refuse Valk power , she end up stabbed and only Valk save you . Somehow it seem you lost your Ghost.. Although , you could be alive due to your ghost and he could be lying...that damn sociopath... KotFE is....more or less horrible for the SI so I don't really count it:) ...actually it is horrible for JC too so.... and sorry Rhyltran, but they are not equal:) JC is maybe SI + 1 ghost...but SI with 4-5....being remade on Belsavis really opened the possibility for the SI to be the next emperor.....and in this light I really hate that in KotFE we ''die'' if we try to channel the emperor's lightning But without SI having ghosts the JC is the most powerful of them all...as you pointed out he/she does use the force to break a very big (rakata's!) door then proceed to battle a child of emperor + whatever Rakata's defenses he could find and then heal an ancient being:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Pfft. Never underestimate the power of the Dark Side of the Deus Ex Machina! and here I though Valk beard acted like the cryptonit and that's why we got so weak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 As I said in another thread: That Thanaton was not THAT strong doesn't matter really, as the SI just stood there and let him throw (and take his time for more powerful attacks) his best attacks at the SI....who just tanked them and walked from them without a scratch Mind you that this was with the ghosts... I do wish we had a better end boss for Nox though... Thanathos was just...Blah Blah Blah..run away...minions attack...... I know you aren't supposed to have more fight and stuff cose you aint the Sith Warrior (who had so many...like a bee hive..everyone wanted to sting you sheesh)...but Ohh I wanted a better Boss!!! and you don't even get that final FATALITY Urghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Let me KILL HIMMMM myself ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 KotFE is....more or less horrible for the SI so I don't really count it:) ...actually it is horrible for JC too so.... It's pretty impossiable to make an argument if you can just decide that somthing doesn't count because you don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 I do wish we had a better end boss for Nox though... Maybe....but in Thanaton's defense the guy could fly:P ...but yes it would have been nice if we faced someone like darth Jadus (from agent's story) - as he seem/everyone say he is the most powerful sith in the council, so probably could give us a fight even with the ghosts...but oh well... Thanaton (imo ofcourse) was good enough:) It's pretty impossiable to make an argument if you can just decide that somthing doesn't count because you don't like it. ....ooo don't be sad:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Maybe....but in Thanaton's defense the guy could fly:P ...but yes it would have been nice if we faced someone like darth Jadus (from agent's story) - as he seem/everyone say he is the most powerful sith in the council, so probably could give us a fight even with the ghosts...but oh well... Thanaton (imo ofcourse) was good enough:) ....ooo don't be sad:) Ohh don't remind me!!! I facepalmed so bad at that one! then went Bipolére and was like ''Aww he can fly! why not meh!'' lol Jadus? dunno...I find Jadus has a sexy voice and my femSorc has one too..they may just end up doing a Duet instead of killing each others..Oh the Horrors No , I think anybody else would have been better instead of Thanathon . With his Yale haircut lol like that darth..Ravager ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaanaOhtar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 and sorry Rhyltran, but they are not equal:) JC is maybe SI + 1 ghost...but SI with 4-5....being remade on Belsavis really opened the possibility for the SI to be the next emperor.....and in this light I really hate that in KotFE we ''die'' if we try to channel the emperor's lightning But without SI having ghosts the JC is the most powerful of them all...as you pointed out he/she does use the force to break a very big (rakata's!) door then proceed to battle a child of emperor + whatever Rakata's defenses he could find and then heal an ancient being:) Lore wise they are quite equal since JC is light side and would heal the plague Sith Lord which result in he/she would be weakening 6 times for their whole career. Only when the Plague master dies that the plague is stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 A lot of times I have seen these started by individuals that favor the darkside and want to start an argument that the darkside always would win and that is not the case. It would always come down to the person and each person is different and so therefore who would win would depend on the person and how they use their powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Lore wise they are quite equal since JC is light side and would heal the plague Sith Lord which result in he/she would be weakening 6 times for their whole career. Only when the Plague master dies that the plague is stopped. Where and are you sure they have stated that the JC is equal to the SI and not in the ''side of the same coin'' or about ''pure'' SI (without ghosts)....? ...I can't believe that, because the SI faund a way to get additional power and to survive/lift the restriction that the particular way for extra power have (the force walking ritual). It would always come down to the person and each person is different and so therefore who would win would depend on the person and how they use their powers. ...I agree with that:) Maybe we should compare their companions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhyltran Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Where and are you sure they have stated that the JC is equal to the SI and not in the ''side of the same coin'' or about ''pure'' SI (without ghosts)....? ...I can't believe that, because the SI faund a way to get additional power and to survive/lift the restriction that the particular way for extra power have (the force walking ritual). ...I agree with that:) Maybe we should compare their companions? Others who have used the shielding ritual the Consular employs has died shielding more than two people. Just like taking more than two ghosts caused the inquisitor to implode. The inquisitor found a way to bypass his limitation. Which is impressive but the consular was such a prodigy he didn't need a way to bypass his limitation. He was simply so powerful he could do what others with the same technique could not. It's interesting. The inquisitor has been known to bypass whatever limitations he has. Finding new ways to face his problems. The consular, the flip side of that coin, is constantly making people question what his limitations even are. Consistently being able to handle whatever is thrown at him. I honestly don't know which is more impressive. Edited July 25, 2016 by Rhyltran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Others who have used the shielding ritual the Consular employs has died shielding more than two people. Just like taking more than two ghosts caused the inquisitor to implode. The inquisitor found a way to bypass his limitation. Which is impressive but the consular was such a prodigy he didn't need a way to bypass his limitation. He was simply so powerful he could do what others with the same technique could not. It's interesting. The inquisitor has been known to bypass whatever limitations he has. Finding new ways to face his problems. The consular, the flip side of that coin, is constantly making people question what his limitations even are. Consistently being able to handle whatever is thrown at him. I honestly don't know which is more impressive. Well, I'd sya the COunsular is more impressive. WHile it's awesome the Inquisitor finds way to bypass the limitations, they require everyone else to find out how to bypass those limitations, where the counsular just... uses ******** plot powers or something to overcome the effects of the shielding technique. Also, I'm trying to remember, but at the end of the Counsular story don't they get the choice to sheild a jedi from the influence of the Emperor? Or was it that the influenced person was able to block the influence out wth the COunsular's words? Edited July 25, 2016 by Codedrago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Also, I'm trying to remember, but at the end of the Counsular story don't they get the choice to sheild a jedi from the influence of the Emperor? Or was it that the influenced person was able to block the influence out wth the COunsular's words? Are you thinking of ? It is ~2:30+ As for the rest of your post - I am at the opposide side of you - I find the SI much more impressive because he/she found a way to make him/herself powerful...even if that was with some help from the right people. While the JC (while impressive) is just a guy/girl with lucky birth:) Edited July 25, 2016 by Saelinne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) As for the rest of your post - I am at the opposide side of you - I find the SI much more impressive because he/she found a way to make him/herself powerful...even if that was with some help from the right people. While the JC (while impressive) is just a guy/girl with lucky birth:) Ah, so it was just Syo resisting with the COunsular's encouragment. I think I'd find it impressive if the SI didn't leave most of the work to Zash, Ashara and Talos. Really, the SI didn't find a way, they just took it when their followers found it. And I think with the Counsular, it's more then just being lucky at birth, using the force is more then just the power behind it. Edited July 25, 2016 by Codedrago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 Are you thinking of ? It is ~2:30+ As for the rest of your post - I am at the opposide side of you - I find the SI much more impressive because he/she found a way to make him/herself powerful...even if that was with some help from the right people. While the JC (while impressive) is just a guy/girl with lucky birth:) Sorry , but I disagree.. See the way I always saw it : Nox is the one who will take the deadliest risk (even going to death and die again and again and find a way to cheat death to become powerful ) . And the Jedi consular is the opposite , she will ENDURE Pain and agony , and that is where her strenght come from . Tha force alone isnt enough..... so they have (to me) equal endurance and to endure stuff that no other Jedi or sith could do . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted July 25, 2016 Share Posted July 25, 2016 (edited) Are you thinking of ? It is ~2:30+ As for the rest of your post - I am at the opposide side of you - I find the SI much more impressive because he/she found a way to make him/herself powerful...even if that was with some help from the right people. While the JC (while impressive) is just a guy/girl with lucky birth:) Going to have to disagree with you here. The JC didn't rely on anyone other than the force. She learn to wield the force and dealt with things on her own while the SI went and found ghosts, through her companions, to become powerful. To me that isn't powerful that is using someone else's power instead of figuring out how to use the force on your own. Edited July 25, 2016 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyTide Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 For me I completely love playing the Inquisitor story line since it is a true underdog tell since out of all the classes he really started from nothing being a slave and became one of the most powerful in the Sith Empire, and the Jedi Consular is also very powerful, like all the PC, but like the sith warrior and jedi knight they were a prodigy and have had training already going into everything so in a sense they had a headstart. Since they were already up there like the other two force users who were always impressing everyone by having no limits than by all rights they were impressive, but the sith inquisitor had to find ways to overcome their limits since they never had any real training or master. Overall I would put them equal in terms of lore-wise for what they have done and could end up doing, each with their own unique powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterRab Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 Going to say that in a space battle Nox wins without question. Since he/she has a bunch of ships with the silencer WMD. Of course, this is my opinion prior to KotFE. Being Lana tells you, that said fleet is missing, and obsolete..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Why is Darth Nox vs [insert very powerful force user here] I have a feeling this is the most popular of the classes at least the force using ones. Edited July 26, 2016 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MysteryJoker Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) Made each class are kinda equal somehow . I'm going to say Agent, Smuggler, Trooper & Bounty Hunter don't stand a chance in hell against their force user counterparts. The agent winning against Jadus was pure B's. Valkorian mentions Jadus was the perfect Sith. And if Jadus is so easily dispatched by a single, one vs. one, nonforce user, then really the entire Sith Order is pathetically weak. Chalk it up to story telling, because them overcoming very impossible odds is more interesting than dying horribly. Edited July 26, 2016 by MysteryJoker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted July 26, 2016 Share Posted July 26, 2016 (edited) I'm going to say Agent, Smuggler, Trooper & Bounty Hunter don't stand a chance in hell against their force user counterparts. The agent winning against Jadus was pure B's. Valkorian mentions Jadus was the perfect Sith. And if Jadus is so easily dispatched by a single, one vs. one, nonforce user, then really the entire Sith Order is pathetically weak. Chalk it up to story telling, because them overcoming very impossible odds is more interesting than dying horribly. Yeah no he said he is the best sith he saw in generations but even he is flawed. Also did not really won but kept up long enough for the trap to spring. And he is the best spy in the galaxy by the word of the developers. Probably just used stealth as you know the stronger you get the the weaker your force sense is. My example are Sidious, Valkorian,Tulak Horde every singe jedi high councilor the prequels besides Obi Wan and Yoda. Edited July 26, 2016 by adormitul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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