stop making excuses just because *blank* is 7 years old

[Tokkii]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

^ Nailed it. Just because another game does it, doesn't mean its easy to implement. Give the game a month or two, see which way they are going with it and then make a decision as opposed to coming to the forums days after launch and throwing a fit.

[Jeweledleah]

Unfortunately that's not the way it works. SWTOR is competing with games with multiple expansions, a add on friendly ui, smooth combat and a gigantic world. It is not competing with WoW 7 years ago.

 

A newly released game has to be as user friendly and have as much content as games that have been out for the past 10 years. The only developer that has openly said this (and seem to grasp the concept) are ArenaNet.

 

Saying the game just launched doesn't cut it. The game should've launched with a ton of features that are not currently implemented.

 

Wooosh, completely missed my point. compare WoW's RAW UI of today to SWTOR's RAW UI of today.

 

or are you saying that there should be a plethora of stable and refined mods to choose from already? even though the game was officially out for about a week?

[twinkiefatsack]

I dont expect them to get everything up to par, but they have a very small window of time before droves of people quit playing. They have a month, otherwise swtor will end up like every other game that tried to compete.

 

Obviously the fan boys are going to disagree. Personally, im having fun with the game. Sure there are crap tons of things that need to be fixed / changed.

 

Weather you agree with it or not the bar is already set. That bar wont even budge until sometime worthy comes along.

 

Every competing MMO needs to look back at the others who failed so miserably and learn from there mistakes, unless they dont really care about longevity and just want that money mang.....which wouldnt surprise me.

[Jeweledleah]

The fact that Blizzard allows for modders to customize the game is why I LOVE PC Gaming and why Blizzard is a great company, whether you like their properties or not. For a breathing living game world, letting the community mod the game is one of the better decisions Blizzard has made.

 

The stock UI in WoW is still very good, and they've taken many of the things from he community and improved on it, not locked anyone out. To say that's a negative thing is ridiculous.

 

so does Bioware. MORE so then Blizzard actually. just not in this game. not yet.

 

you are expecting everything from this game all at once.

 

and I thought I was impatient...

 

this game at launch? is FUN to me. its enjoyable. there's so much to do and so little time to do it in. I'm ENJOYING the combat, while its not all smooth, I'm ENJOYING UI options provided to me. I'm LOVING healing despite having less efficient UI fr it. its not unplayable. far from it. but you people like to make it sound that it is. if its not the game for you? fine. there's nothing wrong with it. but you are making it sound like just becasue its not for you, it sucks for everyone.

 

NO. you cannot compare the game with 7 year's history, MODDING included, to the game that barely had a chance to spread its wings. you cannot jam pack 7 years of independent modding and refinement and expect it from a game that was just released. you are not just not giving Bioware time. you are not giving modding community any time or chance EITHER.

 

and WoW default UI, DESPITE having a plethora of free development done FOR Blizzard by independent, unpayid coders? even with all those implementations that they didn't even invent? it STILL is no better then what we have with SWTOR.

 

P.S. Blizzard is notorious for stealing other people's ideas and merely refining them. they are KNOWN for it. they are not in any way original. Bioware? while using some of the usual more or less expected tropes.. they actually tried for something new and different. yes. they did.

[Halacs]

Wooosh, completely missed my point. compare WoW's RAW UI of today to SWTOR's RAW UI of today.

 

or are you saying that there should be a plethora of stable and refined mods to choose from already? even though the game was officially out for about a week?

 

I'll compare the raw UI of RIFT to this one.

 

RIFT= Can move and resize everything. That was at launch.

ToR= Can move and resize nothing.

 

I do think ToR UI is better then WoW's stock one for sure mind you.

[Styxx]

To Bioware`s defence... on paper it was originally "Best Of WoW Plus Voice Overs" ... over the years it turned into "Best Of What We Think Matters Or Makes A MMO Plus Voice Overs"...

 

Let`s see what will be within 6 months

[IndoJabijin]

Wooosh, completely missed my point. compare WoW's RAW UI of today to SWTOR's RAW UI of today.

 

or are you saying that there should be a plethora of stable and refined mods to choose from already? even though the game was officially out for about a week?

I didn't miss the point. It doesn't matter if WoW's raw ui isn't as good as many people think. And unfortunately many people won't use it as a comparison to SWTOR's ui. Why should they? When 3rd parties have perfectly the UI and WoW currently has the smoothest gameplay.

 

That's what people are going to compare it too.

 

P.S. Blizzard is notorious for stealing other people's ideas and merely refining them. they are KNOWN for it. they are not in any way original.

Great artists steal. This has been true for everything regarding business and it was made famous by Steve Jobs.

Edited December 28, 2011 by IndoJabijin

[Beuwolf]

Not sure I see why the UI is so bad.. its very similar. You get talents as you level, they become button #1, 2 3 etc.. your go to buttons in a rotation to fight things. I am enjoying the hell out of this game..just not liking a few aspects of it..mostly the galactic network is just horribly implemented. It's an epic failure and is the only thing that has me trying to find other ways to make money..because not only do most items that you scavenge not sell for much, if at all, but it's damn near impossible to find specific things. They could take the Wow AH and improve upon it.. they went backwards by a magnitude. The ability to ctrl-click an item in my inventory and search on it to compare prices.. how about a built in bank to TGN so I don't have to waste a few seconds running to my bank looking for an item in the larger pool of things.. just allow me to select that instead of my own bag.. saves a little bit of time. Or how about having the interface in game at any time.. we have companions.. why can't I send my companion on a run to put some stuff up on the network? Split items automatically, assign prices per unite/stack, auto-send my companion to retrieve mail that is money only ( so as not to fill my bags with stuff that didn't sell), and so on. There are vast improvements that could be done. HEll, they should build an android and iphone TGN app so that those of us working can still buy/sell stuff while at work.

[mutharex]

Trolls and wowkidies should understand that they aren't BW market, they know wowkiddies will come over and most of them won't be able to cope and go back to something more mediocre and familiar. So they aren't trying to appeal to you, they are going for a different market. People with taste for example. We can't all like crap like flies do!

[dozerking]

so does Bioware. MORE so then Blizzard actually. just not in this game. not yet.

 

you are expecting everything from this game all at once.

 

and I thought I was impatient...

 

this game at launch? is FUN to me. its enjoyable. there's so much to do and so little time to do it in. I'm ENJOYING the combat, while its not all smooth, I'm ENJOYING UI options provided to me. I'm LOVING healing despite having less efficient UI fr it. its not unplayable. far from it. but you people like to make it sound that it is. if its not the game for you? fine. there's nothing wrong with it. but you are making it sound like just becasue its not for you, it sucks for everyone.

 

NO. you cannot compare the game with 7 year's history, MODDING included, to the game that barely had a chance to spread its wings. you cannot jam pack 7 years of independent modding and refinement and expect it from a game that was just released. you are not just not giving Bioware time. you are not giving modding community any time or chance EITHER.

 

and WoW default UI, DESPITE having a plethora of free development done FOR Blizzard by independent, unpayid coders? even with all those implementations that they didn't even invent? it STILL is no better then what we have with SWTOR.

 

P.S. Blizzard is notorious for stealing other people's ideas and merely refining them. they are KNOWN for it. they are not in any way original. Bioware? while using some of the usual more or less expected tropes.. they actually tried for something new and different. yes. they did.

 

First off, I'm enjoying TOR, but it's far from perfect. All aspects of the game should be brought forth, period. If people can't take the fact that this game has issues, I don't know what to say, maybe stop being so sensitive?

 

Blizzard hasn't stole anything. They make games in genres like Bioware and other developers. Under your logic, every developer is stealing unless they create a genre. Nonsense. Blizzard has created some extremely impressive Lore in their major franchisee ie... Diablo, Starcraft and Warcaft. You would have to be an absolute fanboy not to acknowledge that love or hate.

 

I love both companies, but Bioware is definitely more of a Console developer over the past few years since Mass Effect, and definitely Dragon Age 2 vs. the first one. I don't blame them since it's where the majority of non-mmo money is.

[rabidf]

Well this game was in development for six years, it should have all the polish of wow and honestly should have copied most of wow's addons directly into the game. Instead we get a game with less polish than wow vanilla.

[Sakushi]

Just want to point out, that just because WOW is the only MMO that you guys have played, (besides SWTOR) doesn't make you Experts.

 

for Hutts Sake!

[LilTikiBoy]

Well this game was in development for six years, it should have all the polish of wow and honestly should have copied most of wow's addons directly into the game. Instead we get a game with less polish than wow vanilla.

 

And how many years do you think it took to make wow? Plus its not like blizzard is just gonna hand out their products coding like free candy.

[davidpop]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

The OP is still right tho.

 

You dont compete with games like they were 7 years ago, you compete with how they are today.

[songofprecept]

Simple solution for all, of you......go back and play wow if its that good...

 

Still here? Thought so.

[ImperialSun]

The analogy someone used about the car manufacturer is simply terrible.

 

Yes, a car manufacturer has to ensure that their latest product is packed full of everything that the competitors have on the day of launch....because once its launched that car is a finite thing. It will not be developed or added to or expanded unless the consumer buys another car.

 

MMORPGs simply dont work like that, they are continuously being polished and expanded which is something the wowkiddies know as well as any of us...they just conveniently forget because it suits their agenda.

 

If the OPs rationale is that every new MMORPG should launch with everything found in the current greatest MMORPGas a bare minimum....why did WoW not do that? hmmmm?

 

WoW launched with next to nothing compared to it's nearest rival at the time....

 

So why do you expect other MMORPGs to be any different? In reality SWTOR may need things like UI customization etc etc but those things will be added organically...just like in WoW and just like in all other MMORPGs.

 

Like I said, when it launched WoW was missing loads of features that were ALREADY in the nearest rival at the time....so your logic fails.

 

Driz

Edited December 28, 2011 by ImperialSun

[Barracudastr]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

I know what goes into biowares game dev millions of dollars for voice acting lol's.

 

Seriously though they have been developing this for YEARS and YEARS.

 

What bioware has demostrated with the release of swtor is that they did not do their homework and research for the actual MMO part of the game.

 

There are so many basic things missing from this game.

 

-No AA at launch umm k you have been working on this how long now?

-Daily heroic quests bugging out not giving credit.... right... feels like beta testing.

-Shadows... huge drain on resources and drives the GPU into the floor and they still look like crap and are buggy..... again beta testing stuff lol.

-No global chat breaks community connection and makes it harder to group.

-High for textures gives you medium textures.... still hasn't been fixed... lol really guys comon this your first game bioware? Again this is beta testing stuff.

-Huge delays on actual gameplay again a beta testing thing.

-Unclickable nodes for gathering.... was fix but should have never been in launch anyways as it was bugged long ago in beta.

 

Yes the game is new but guess what its been in the works for a long time and things like what I said above are just unacceptable for a company like bioware who has prided itself on top quality products. Its very clear to many people that this was a rushed release probably because of EA hammering them for a holiday release for a sales boost, then saying you guys need to patch these issues after release.

 

Bottom line is while the launch was fairly smooth it feels like your playing a game in testing still. Theres so many bugs with the core of the game that you would never see in most new mmo's. Graphic bugs, missing features. Broken quests, etc etc etc.

 

Most developers have the core at least working smoothly then work out minor bugs and issues with balance etc. Not oh opps we forgot to ship with high res textures we are a billion dollar company derp derp. Oh opps ya no AA yet but its tops priority. Herp derp we launched the game and nodes aren't even farmable for many.

 

Just poor QA on their part and poor beta testing results.

[Mandrax]

Seriously... I'm tired of seeing people say "Oh you can't compare X to X because *blank* has had more time in development."

 

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Bioware must compete with the leading game in the industry even if that has had a 7+ years head start.

 

Bioware has to work over time to at-least be on par with that game which has had plenty of time to develop into the MMO that it is now

 

you cant give Bioware that excuse because new MMO players won't.

 

Just a shortened version of what i wanted to say... Too tired right now.

 

If you want TOR to have everything WoW has, it needs to have at least another 4 years in development.

[Jeweledleah]

First off, I'm enjoying TOR, but it's far from perfect. All aspects of the game should be brought forth, period. If people can't take the fact that this game has issues, I don't know what to say, maybe stop being so sensitive?

 

Blizzard hasn't stole anything. They make games in genres like Bioware and other developers. Under your logic, every developer is stealing unless they create a genre. Nonsense. Blizzard has created some extremely impressive Lore in their major franchisee ie... Diablo, Starcraft and Warcaft. You would have to be an absolute fanboy not to acknowledge that love or hate.

 

I love both companies, but Bioware is definitely more of a Console developer over the past few years since Mass Effect, and definitely Dragon Age 2 vs. the first one. I don't blame them since it's where the majority of non-mmo money is.

 

I'm not saying that TOr is perfect. far from it. but neither is WoW. people put WoW on some sort of pedestal when in reality its just a popular game, just like Twilight is a popular book. if you like it, more power to you. I used to before they changed their direction so much I no longer enjoyed any aspect of the game.

 

and I will say it again, you CANNOT count a modding community that had 7 YEARS to develop when you compare WoW to a game that was JUST released. not to mention.. what percentage of WoW players actually plays with mods? not as many as you think. so those players deal with raw UI.

 

and yeah, Blizzard very much "borrows" from well everyone. they just have a great talent for refining raw ideas. though they have been stumbling lately.

 

Warcraft? guess what inspired them, take a wild guess. I'll give you a hint - another strategy game with orcs and humans, that got its start in pen and paper and has a franchise that's still going strong today. Star craft is not particularly original either and WoW? ever heard of Everquest?

 

 

lastly. when regular people pick a game to play? they pick based on content. they pick based on what interests them, based on the art style they enjoy, the setting, etc. gameplay is secondary. and guess what? not everyone likes cartoon style of WoW. not everyone is into faux medieval with hints of steampunk fantasy. some people prefer more traditional settings like DnD or Lord of the rings. some prefer a whimsical style and look of guild wars. some people like a more hard sci-fi feel of Eve. some prefer the post apocalyptic look and feel of fallen earth. some like super heroes. they don't care how "smooth" WoW is or how many addons it has available. if the game doesn't interest them, they are not going to play it. unlike WoW tourists apparently, you are tired of their addiction but cannot give it up, so they keep looking for replacements, but naturally the only replacement that would work is another WoW. so they rage and complain and then slink back.

 

but WoW is not the only game on the market, just like Twilight is not the only series of vampire books for young adults. its merely the best known. and bioware would be wise to remember that WoW tourists come and go, but core players stay as long as you let them. and experience shows that making games more like WoW? doesn't end well.

 

I'm used to bioware games. I'm used to their feel, how they play. so are plenty of other people who bought this game NOT becasue they wanted a break from WoW, but becasue they like bioware games and becasue they loved KOTOR.

 

but what does it have to do with gameplay and UI, you ask? very little. in other words, the priority is to fix actually bugs and actual issues before refining UI or even thinking about so called "standard features" becasue for a lot of people? the chunkiness of UI or inability to be thrown into group automatically is barely a blip on a radar.

 

don't make mistake of thinking that forum posters represent actual majority of players. they NEVER do.

 

edited. funny story about unclickable nodes. guess what WoW used to have in abundance with Cata launch? take a wild guess. Cata was what.. third expansion? how long was that game out before? how experience Blizzard is. and yet.. there you have it unclickable, invisible nodes, that if you are lucky, are merely stuck in a ground JUST under the surface. took them months to fix.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Jeweledleah

[Sakushi]

 

Warcraft? guess what inspired them, take a wild guess. I'll give you a hint - another strategy game with orcs and humans, that got its start in pen and paper and has a franchise that's still going strong today. Star craft is not particularly original either and WoW? ever heard of Everquest?

 

 

Careful you'll anger the WoW Fans, being as though they THINK that blizzard had made a game from out of thin air.

[Zironic]

and I will say it again, you CANNOT count a modding community that had 7 YEARS to develop when you compare WoW to a game that was JUST released. not to mention.. what percentage of WoW players actually plays with mods? not as many as you think. so those players deal with raw UI.

 

Sure I can. The world isn't fair, if I pay Blizzard $15 bucks I get a certain amount of content and features, if I pay Bioware $15 bucks I get a tiny tiny fraction of the content and features. That's just how the world is.

but WoW is not the only game on the market, just like Twilight is not the only series of vampire books for young adults. its merely the best known. and bioware would be wise to remember that WoW tourists come and go, but core players stay as long as you let them. and experience shows that making games more like WoW? doesn't end well.

Usually, when the 'tourists' leave, the game is left with sub 100k players which is probably not nearly enough for this game to go around.

 

Careful you'll anger the WoW Fans, being as though they THINK that blizzard had made a game from out of thin air.

 

Honestly, no one that plays Blizzard games care the slightest if something is original or not, Blizzard is not the game company to go to for originality. Blizzard is the company that produces the games with the highest level of polish and gold standard gameplay.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zironic

[songofprecept]

Sure I can. The world isn't fair, if I pay Blizzard $15 bucks I get a certain amount of content and features, if I pay Bioware $15 bucks I get a tiny tiny fraction of the content and features. That's just how the world is.

 

Usually, when the 'tourists' leave, the game is left with sub 100k players which is probably not nearly enough for this game to go around.

 

 

 

Honestly, no one that plays Blizzard games care the slightest if something is original or not, Blizzard is not the game company to go to for originality. Blizzard is the company that produces the games with the highest level of polish and gold standard gameplay.

 

Thats your opinion, not shared by everyone.

 

Diablo is shallow, starcraft...well I dont get rts so....wow is just a lobby game now.

 

Thats my opinion as valid as yours.

[Zironic]

Thats your opinion, not shared by everyone.

 

Diablo is shallow, starcraft...well I dont get rts so....wow is just a lobby game now.

 

Thats my opinion as valid as yours.

 

Difference is this yeh, Diablo, Starcraft and WoW sell an order of magnitude better then any other games in their respective genres. That's not opinion, that's fact.

[Sakushi]

Difference is this yeh, Diablo, Starcraft and WoW sell an order of magnitude better then any other games in their respective genres. That's not opinion, that's fact.

 

lol why dont you just bend over for them too...

[the_woookie]

What Bioware has underestimated is the "gimme now" generation of MMO players. Its also entirely likely that Bioware has deliverately not done some of the things that other MMOs have.

 

Macros are the biggest conjob in the history of MMOs. The same people using macros are generally the same people complaining that healing in WoW was reduced to pushing 1 a lot.

 

The AH in SWTOR actually works. Yes it does. Sure its slightly more complicated, but that doesnt mean it doesnt work. You may have to think a little more than the "click and sell" mentality of other MMOs.

 

having to heal the "hard way"? seriously. If you want a mindless game or something to do while you watch TV eps, then maybe other MMOs are for you.

 

The big give away though is the emphatic no to a LFD tool. This and all the above tells me that these things werent forgotten or overlooked, this is a deliberate attempt by Bioware to attract a different audience.

 

server maintenance? happens even in certain other MMOs, and at the same time, for about the same length of time.

 

ironically perhaps, people who actually played vanilla wow - as opposed to people who just say that they did - and enjoyed it that way, will probably enjoy this variant of MMO most of all.

 

----------------------------------------------------------

 

The other bugs that people are mentioning all over the place Im simply just not seeing in my game experience. Im playing on a Laptop, in Australia, and Im having no trouble finding groups if I want them (Im not playing on one of the Unofficial Oceanic servers either). I havent had guild chat issues, or complications with my companions. Im not experiencing lag with my abilities and casting. Server maintenance is expected.

 

And theres a whole host of things they have done right.

 

The scenery is breathtaking and there is a clear difference in scenery across planets, and Im only up to Taris. Heroic zones are everywhere and are from 2-4 people. No more compulsory 5 man groups. seriously 2 man dungeons/heroics are something even wow could learn from. Voice acting has been lauded ad nauseum. The inclusion of a storyline for each class is great. The way each quest area leads to the next is awesomely done (and something which certain other MMos introduced relatively recently).

 

Oddly enough, the only thing I really miss from WoW is achievements. Even when there was nothing to do, achievement whoring gave you something to do.