stop making excuses just because *blank* is 7 years old

[Beuwolf]

I couldn't read all the replies.. but I will say this.. while most of the posts I agree with in regards to the polish and content and all that.. the one thing I am really disgusted with is the TGN interface. I hope this is the first major thing they fix very soon, because in WoW the AH was a very large part of the game, often more players were out grinding for mats and stuff to sell to make money to buy epics for their alts to get them into heroics and 10 mans right away when they hit 80 or 85. The TGN is so dysfunctional to me there is no excuse for this game with what 3.. maybe more years in development, not to have gotten the interface nailed down. There is no reason I should not be able to search for a specific item without having to specify 2 or more sub categories first. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to drag 20 pieces of an item, and specify each individual price as well as whether or not to break it up into individual auctions or one auction. There is no reason it should take an hour to get my sales. All of these things were ironed out in WoW and I would have thought with all the griping and addons to fix this in WoW, this game would at least get it somewhat right out of the box. It's really the only "big" issue I see with this game. There are a lot of things this game blows WoW out of the water with. Story alone is amazing, companions, ships, 2/3/4 man "heroics" as quests, etc etc. The graphics are "on par" with wow.. I don't see anything there looking any better or worse, just different. I will say that I would have thought the detail would be a little better by now.. given 7+ years later from WoW.. but maybe its my crappy 4 year old graphics card.

 

There are minor bugs/glitches with the map and mail system, but otherwise the overall game is pretty darn solid except for TGN

[Tarka]

I couldn't read all the replies.. but I will say this.. while most of the posts I agree with in regards to the polish and content and all that.. the one thing I am really disgusted with is the TGN interface. I hope this is the first major thing they fix very soon, because in WoW the AH was a very large part of the game, often more players were out grinding for mats and stuff to sell to make money to buy epics for their alts to get them into heroics and 10 mans right away when they hit 80 or 85. The TGN is so dysfunctional to me there is no excuse for this game with what 3.. maybe more years in development, not to have gotten the interface nailed down. There is no reason I should not be able to search for a specific item without having to specify 2 or more sub categories first. There is no reason I shouldn't be able to drag 20 pieces of an item, and specify each individual price as well as whether or not to break it up into individual auctions or one auction. There is no reason it should take an hour to get my sales. All of these things were ironed out in WoW and I would have thought with all the griping and addons to fix this in WoW, this game would at least get it somewhat right out of the box. It's really the only "big" issue I see with this game. There are a lot of things this game blows WoW out of the water with. Story alone is amazing, companions, ships, 2/3/4 man "heroics" as quests, etc etc. The graphics are "on par" with wow.. I don't see anything there looking any better or worse, just different. I will say that I would have thought the detail would be a little better by now.. given 7+ years later from WoW.. but maybe its my crappy 4 year old graphics card.

 

There are minor bugs/glitches with the map and mail system, but otherwise the overall game is pretty darn solid except for TGN

 

Very true. The economy is one of the core aspects of any MMO. And if it doesn't function well enough, then that can severly impede other systems in the game.

 

I agree that the GTN needs to have the following functionality:

• The ability to search by item name WITHOUT the need to stipulate other criteria.
  
• With the GTN search tab enabled, there should be the ability to shift + click an item in your inventory and the name of that item automatically be put in the name search field
  
• With the GTN sell tab enabled, there should be an ability to shift + click an item and be able to state the "stack size" and the price for each stack.
  
• The ability to search for "mission" items (I believe this doesn't work well at the moment).
  

Essentially, Bioware needs to "borrow" the same level of intuitiveness from other major MMO AH/Trade/Market UI's.

 

There really is no excuse to justify having a poor UI in today's market. It's not like adding additional content. One only needs to copy what others have done.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[nomanking]

if u think this game is really bad and others r better . just leave when come back when it as good as ur expectation. thank you and plz dont make any more of these threads. there r already tons of them i wanna see something usefull to read not the whole page has same thing over and over.

[Tarka]

if u think this game is really bad and others r better . just leave when come back when it as good as ur expectation. thank you and plz dont make any more of these threads. there r already tons of them i wanna see something usefull to read not the whole page has same thing over and over.

 

• Firstly, I think you are missing the point.
  
• Secondly, I really think that EA / Bioware won't appreciate someone telling others to not subscribe to their game just because they have concerns. I think that only the devs are really in a position to do that.
  
• Thirdly, if someone doesn't want to read a thread, no one is forcing them to.
  

Edited December 28, 2011 by Tarka

[Beuwolf]

if u think this game is really bad and others r better . just leave when come back when it as good as ur expectation. thank you and plz dont make any more of these threads. there r already tons of them i wanna see something usefull to read not the whole page has same thing over and over.

 

What Tarka said.

[Ruinruin]

one of the reasons for wow's success is that all the mmo's that have come out to try and compete with it have not had the content and polish it has. Timing was important for wow, it was the only mainstream player when it launched.

 

If you are launching an mom to compete with wow you have to compete with it as it currently is, not how it was at launch time.

 

IMO the problems with wow were server stability, lag and things like that but the gameplay was solid and the content was top notch. SWTOR has had really stable servers (which is great) but the gameplay and content isn't up to speed for mine. I think it is far easier to address server instability quickly compared to fixing up poor design... In short I don't know how they will fix swtor to be able to compete with wow as it stands today. This makes me a little sad cause I was so looking forward to this game

Edited December 28, 2011 by Ruinruin

[SuperomegaOP]

one of the reasons for wow's success is that all the mmo's that have come out to try and compete with it have not had the content and polish it has. Timing was important for wow, it was the only mainstream player when it launched.

 

If you are launching an mom to compete with wow you have to compete with it as it currently is, not how it was at launch time.

 

IMO the problems with wow were server stability, lag and things like that but the gameplay was solid and the content was top notch. SWTOR has had really stable servers (which is great) but the gameplay and content isn't up to speed for mine. I think it is far easier to address server instability quickly compared to fixing up poor design... In short I don't know how they will fix swtor to be able to compete with wow as it stands today. This makes me a little sad cause I was so looking forward to this game

 

this is somewhat what i wanted to say in my OP thank you for stating that sir

[IMatricksI]

If you are launching an mom to compete with wow you have to compete with it as it currently is, not how it was at launch time.

Which is impossible, even when talking non-content related game systems.

 

10 years of coding and programming development > 3 years coding and programming development.

 

There are definitely things that need improvement on SWTOR, but the real question is how quickly Bioware can improve them and how patient the community is. Its the latter that presents the largest challenge.

Edited December 28, 2011 by IMatricksI

[ChazDoit]

Isn't wow like more expensive too? I checked in battlenet that costs like 100 bucks if you want to buy the game with all the expansions...

 

And that is if you are buying it right now, if you bought them as they came out I suppose you spend like 300 dollars, not counting the monthly fee

Edited December 28, 2011 by ChazDoit

[Varghjerta]

one of the reasons for wow's success is that all the mmo's that have come out to try and compete with it have not had the content and polish it has. Timing was important for wow, it was the only mainstream player when it launched.

 

If you are launching an mom to compete with wow you have to compete with it as it currently is, not how it was at launch time.

 

IMO the problems with wow were server stability, lag and things like that but the gameplay was solid and the content was top notch. SWTOR has had really stable servers (which is great) but the gameplay and content isn't up to speed for mine. I think it is far easier to address server instability quickly compared to fixing up poor design... In short I don't know how they will fix swtor to be able to compete with wow as it stands today. This makes me a little sad cause I was so looking forward to this game

 

Actually for example in early WoW you did have alot of other problems like Charge/Blink bug that made you fall trough the world and made you spawn at a graveyard on the other side of the continent or didnt spawn at all and so on.

 

Same as Some graphic cards where unplayable they meet the criteria but just didnt work with wow and alot more.

 

Everybody seems to make WoW into the perfect game that had no bugs at the start but we that played know that there was alot of bugs aswell as qoues and server instabilties........

 

 

 

But guess what people was on the WoW forum Dooming and glooming the game even back then ..........................................

[Ruinruin]

Which is impossible, even when talking non-content related game systems. 10 years of coding and programming development > 3 years coding and programming development.

 

There are definitely things that need improvement on SWTOR, but the real question is how quickly Bioware can improve them and how patient the community is. Its the latter that presents the largest challenge.

 

Sadly I think history is against them. The 1/2 dozen or so 'big' mmo releases since wow have more or less shown what happens when you try to go up against it with this type of approach.

 

To compete with wow you are going to launch with less content, there is nothing you can do about that. So with that in mind I really think you have to focus on making what little content you do launch with top notch. Really, it has to be as good or better than wow's or at least as fun. The alternative would be to do something totally different and differentiate yourself from wow.

 

SWTOR didn't try to do the latter and has more or lies offered every thing wow does. My opinion is that swtor simply tried to do too much and does not do it not well enough.

[bliapis]

Just play what you like. If you find SWTOR lacking at launch, give it a go a few months or a year from now.

Seriously... I'm tired of seeing people say "Oh you can't compare X to X because *blank* has had more time in development."

 

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Bioware must compete with the leading game in the industry even if that has had a 7+ years head start.

 

Bioware has to work over time to at-least be on par with that game which has had plenty of time to develop into the MMO that it is now

 

you cant give Bioware that excuse because new MMO players won't.

 

Just a shortened version of what i wanted to say... Too tired right now.

[LtDanomg]

But...it's true.

 

Everything in this industry comes down to time and money. Great and amazing idea's and mechanics sometimes won't make it into games due to time constraints. It's the nature of the beast.

 

MMO's grow and change as they live their life. This one will do the same.

[IMatricksI]

SWTOR didn't try to do the latter and has more or lies offered every thing wow does. My opinion is that swtor simply tried to do too much and does not do it not well enough.

 

And yet they have a largely content user base and can easily improve the game. Hell, the improvements made in 4 months of Beta were very large indeed. Once again, the pateince of the community is going to be the key. Personally, I'm happy with the game as-is despite the obvious need for further refinement, and I'm patent enough to see the game through for a few months and give Bioware time to do what needs to be done. The push for launch is over. Now comes the push to improve and add to an already solid foundation.

[RedEnsign]

You can't honestly expect them to get everything that every mmo has gotten into their game on the release date. You obviously have no idea what goes into a game development if you think otherwise.

 

Sorry. the sad facts are Rift release with many, MANY of the things people are complaining about Bioware leaving out. Which game was in development longer? Which company laid off many, MANY devs with MMO experience when Mythic was absorbed into Bioware? Which game launched with LESS features than Rift, Star Trek Online, and Lord of the Rings Online? It's name is on the top of your browser for those who are slow.

[IMatricksI]

Sorry. the sad facts are Rift release with many, MANY of the things people are complaining about Bioware leaving out. Which game was in development longer? Which company laid off many, MANY devs with MMO experience when Mythic was absorbed into Bioware? Which game launched with LESS features than Rift, Star Trek Online, and Lord of the Rings Online? It's name is on the top of your browser for those who are slow.

Which game am I playing and having more fun with? That's the only question I need to answer.

[Jeweledleah]

/rant

 

I'm so tired of people talking how WoW has this amazing customizable UI. IT DOESN'T. blizzard coasts on the shoulders of independent developers, that hated default UI and developed changes for it. all Blizzard did was open the game enough for the coders to be able to do that. and they did it once the game was relatively stable, becasue you know every change to the game code can and will affect functionality of an addon. and STILL. every patch even now that Blizzard gives developers warnings - STILL breaks at least half of those addons.

 

have you tried playing with default UI blizzard has, and no I'm not talking about old stuff, I'm talking about today? I suggest you try, disable all your addons and try. they have endless free trial now, so you don't even have to buy anything. then come back and tell me how great WoW's UI is and how much SWTOR's sucks. SWTOR's UI is pretty standard. it could definitely use improvements, but its not something to be reviled ESPECIALLY compared to WoW.

 

Bioware so far made it possible to mod pretty much all their games. heck, they released entire toolset for Dragon age Origins, not to mention Neverwinter Nights...

 

I'm pretty sure that they will either figure out how to implement improvements themselves, or open up the game to modding once they deem it safe. what's it been, 2 weeks? counting early access no less. they already patched some of the bugs, they are ACTIVELY working on improvements.

 

if we're going to compare to a certain MMO that's been out on a market for 7 years - those guys even with 7 years of experience behind them STILL cannot get balancing and patching right. do if you are going to compare? compare the raw game. compare it fairly.

[archifikoss]

Seriously... I'm tired of seeing people say "Oh you can't compare X to X because *blank* has had more time in development."

 

People who are joining MMORPGs for the first time are going to pick the better MMO. They don't care which one is older or which one is new

 

Bioware must compete with the leading game in the industry even if that has had a 7+ years head start.

 

Bioware has to work over time to at-least be on par with that game which has had plenty of time to develop into the MMO that it is now

 

you cant give Bioware that excuse because new MMO players won't.

 

Just a shortened version of what i wanted to say... Too tired right now.

 

No, not necessarily. They'll pick up the game they feel corresponds more to their needs, unless they're sheep and blindly follow others. It's like saying that any people new to FPS games would go for MW3 rather than Battlefield 3, the new Tribes (when it's out), or whatever (can't give more examples because I've been out of touch with the genre for a while) simply because it's the best known... If they prefer the idea of an actiony shooter they'll go for MW3, if they prefer the realistic, more multiplayer oriented style they'll try BF3, if they like jetpacks they'll go for Tribes.

[IndoJabijin]

/rant

if we're going to compare to a certain MMO that's been out on a market for 7 years - those guys even with 7 years of experience behind them STILL cannot get balancing and patching right. do if you are going to compare? compare the raw game. compare it fairly.

Unfortunately that's not the way it works. SWTOR is competing with games with multiple expansions, a add on friendly ui, smooth combat and a gigantic world. It is not competing with WoW 7 years ago.

 

A newly released game has to be as user friendly and have as much content as games that have been out for the past 10 years. The only developer that has openly said this (and seem to grasp the concept) are ArenaNet.

 

Saying the game just launched doesn't cut it. The game should've launched with a ton of features that are not currently implemented.

Edited December 28, 2011 by IndoJabijin

[Mashy]

thats exactly why wow is still successful

 

So head back to WoW and leave us in peace to enjoy this fantastic game. I tell ya, the end of the free month can't come fast enough...

[pixxpixx]

The better MMO in my eyes is the one with the most future potential.

 

Hence why I'm playing the better MMO right now, and posting this in its forum.

Edited December 28, 2011 by pixxpixx

[Ommm]

But...it's true.

 

Everything in this industry comes down to time and money. Great and amazing idea's and mechanics sometimes won't make it into games due to time constraints. It's the nature of the beast.

 

 

Amen brother, amen.

[dozerking]

First off , im willing to bet the people playing swtor are not first time mmo players. Wow was a mess at its release , no where near the polish that some of the latest mmo's have launched with.

 

Second of all , most mmo players that have been around since before wow , think wow is crap, it was crap 7 years ago and its still crap. These games are not even mmo's in the true sence, all they are is rpg's with chat boxes thanks to wow.

 

To compare them at launch , this game blows wow away...we will have to wait 7 years to see how it stacks up against the worlds biggest rpg with a chat box.

 

If you call WoW crap, than you are essentially calling this game crap. It's the same MMO mechanics with a Star Wars skin and very nicely produced voice acting. Other than that, WoW has pretty much perfected the MMO interface and mechanics, which leads many people to ask, why not get as close to the technical aspects of WoW as you can? Lots of time with an enormous player base have been playing and testing WoW's interface and gameplay for years and years, it's a proven solution whether you like Warcraft's content or not. It's a shame that many people just dismiss Blizzard as a developer because they don't like WoW. They've not only nailed the MMO interface, they nailed the carrot and stick idea that keeps players coming back month after month, not to mention what they created in Diablo that does it best.

 

While I like TOR, there are many things this game needs to improve on, mechanics wise, including the client side cast bar that lags badly, as well as many combat abilities just straight up not working when intended. These are glaring shortfalls that need to be addressed asap and that should have been addressed in beta.

[dozerking]

/rant

 

I'm so tired of people talking how WoW has this amazing customizable UI. IT DOESN'T. blizzard coasts on the shoulders of independent developers, that hated default UI and developed changes for it. all Blizzard did was open the game enough for the coders to be able to do that. and they did it once the game was relatively stable, becasue you know every change to the game code can and will affect functionality of an addon. and STILL. every patch even now that Blizzard gives developers warnings - STILL breaks at least half of those addons.

 

have you tried playing with default UI blizzard has, and no I'm not talking about old stuff, I'm talking about today? I suggest you try, disable all your addons and try. they have endless free trial now, so you don't even have to buy anything. then come back and tell me how great WoW's UI is and how much SWTOR's sucks. SWTOR's UI is pretty standard. it could definitely use improvements, but its not something to be reviled ESPECIALLY compared to WoW.

 

Bioware so far made it possible to mod pretty much all their games. heck, they released entire toolset for Dragon age Origins, not to mention Neverwinter Nights...

 

I'm pretty sure that they will either figure out how to implement improvements themselves, or open up the game to modding once they deem it safe. what's it been, 2 weeks? counting early access no less. they already patched some of the bugs, they are ACTIVELY working on improvements.

 

if we're going to compare to a certain MMO that's been out on a market for 7 years - those guys even with 7 years of experience behind them STILL cannot get balancing and patching right. do if you are going to compare? compare the raw game. compare it fairly.

 

The fact that Blizzard allows for modders to customize the game is why I LOVE PC Gaming and why Blizzard is a great company, whether you like their properties or not. For a breathing living game world, letting the community mod the game is one of the better decisions Blizzard has made.

 

The stock UI in WoW is still very good, and they've taken many of the things from he community and improved on it, not locked anyone out. To say that's a negative thing is ridiculous.

[TheNevet]

I would say that new MMO players that are here, are here because this game is Star Wars...not because they are out searching for the "better" MMO.

 

The majority of them probably don't give a rat's behind about any other MMO's.

 

This.