Slicing - The Raw Data on the Nerf

[Kesh_]

This is a great improvement. It will also stop the price inflation that was rapidly happening on the market so all the other skills also will bring in less money. This forces real choices of what you want instead of min-maxing and buying everything. So you specialize. Maybe you focus on ship improvements or maybe getting crafting materials or maybe getting most of your power upgrades.

[Fuileadan]

nice info, post for later info.

[Phadian_gess]

This is a great example. To make this a little more obvious for those who aren't getting it...

 

Slicing Example:

 

I pay 100 credits. I get 90 credits in return.

 

Salvaging Example:

 

I pay 100 credits. I get 5 Plastoid in return.

 

 

One of these gives me something I didn't have before. I bought the 5 plastoid for 100 credits (the cost of the mission). The other gives me less than I paid. I bought 90 credits, but I paid 100 credits to get that 90.

 

If there is anyone who still doesn't get it, let me know. I'll send you a link to my paypal donations page. You can pay me 100 dollars, and in return, I'll give you 90 back. Then you can slice in real life! :OD

 

you got 90 on that return in that single instance what YOU dont get is there is a margin of profit/loss who is to say the next time you do that exact mission you net 120 credits back?

[KalenDarkmoon]

Now take your slightly positive CPS, and factor in the steeply negative CPS that the other professions have, and you'll see why Slicing is now in-balance.

 

Ah! I see now. So crafting is supposed to always lose money then, eh? I didn't realize this. I guess we'll have to watch closely now and if any other crafting or gathering skill suddenly become profitable for enough people, we'll need to scream "NERF!"

 

Oh, wait! We need to nerf Underworld Trading now!! Hurry. No need to test any values or think things through. Nerf it NOW by reducing crit chances to 1/4th their current value and reduce the amount you get from each mission by over 2/3rds. *gasp* We can't have anybody profiting because <insert craft here> isn't profitable for me!

Edited December 28, 2011 by KalenDarkmoon

[Maxvla]

Would like to state something for the record.

 

Slicing is NOT a crafting profession. It is a gathering profession, and thus, by it's very nature, is SUPPOSED to be pure profit.

[SilverWF]

Unless they change slicing, I will ALWAYS lose money.

"If you don't like paying the money out up front...DON'T BE A..." slicer? ^^

 

This is a great example. To make this a little more obvious for those who aren't getting it...

 

Slicing Example:

 

I pay 100 credits. I get 90 credits in return.

 

Salvaging Example:

 

I pay 100 credits. I get 5 Plastoid in return.

 

 

One of these gives me something I didn't have before. I bought the 5 plastoid for 100 credits (the cost of the mission). The other gives me less than I paid. I bought 90 credits, but I paid 100 credits to get that 90.

 

If there is anyone who still doesn't get it, let me know. I'll send you a link to my paypal donations page. You can pay me 100 dollars, and in return, I'll give you 90 back. Then you can slice in real life! :OD

 

You didnt get 5 Plastoid for 100 creds. For this price cost you can get only Silicia, and not 5, but 3-4 with fail chance.

Yes, trust me - I'm a Scavenger.

 

And you for only 10 credits (100 price - 90 profit) will get a + to your slicing exp and it will allows to you get 400 Slicer more faster and cheaper to start Augments runs, then my Scavenging skill to me, coz now noone will buy my materials (slicing was nerfed and it rly easy to anyone make an Alt-Scavenger) for even it selfcost!

I didnt talk about any profits from Scavenging or Cybertech (another my prof) - I understand (now) that proffessions are rly useless at any lvl.

 

Only useful professions:

Biochem + Bioanalisis (to make a good high-lvl pots for yourself, sure. And not only for money save - for some strange reasons most of best pots are BoP or require Biochem skill ><)

Slicing (to money making)

 

All another professions rly useless, coz all (the same or better) it results are droppable from instances/quests or tradeable from vendors, or dont rly needed (as grenades or droid parts, for example)

Edited December 28, 2011 by SilverWF

[Amortisis]

I don't understand why they nerfed it so mutch, im losing more money, then im making.

 

What's the point of taking a gathering skill, that is useless...

[quaesitor]

Slicing needed some adjustment. It was OP.

 

It was, unfortunately, adjusted a bit rashly.

 

I think it will get another adjustment once the devs realize they overreacted.

[Repefe]

With 3 companions I earn around 6-7k an hour with 400 slicing and I am actually ok with that .... there is only so many things I can buy with credits in TOR. I don't need to rush.

[Jessie-Lacey]

Anyone who thinks they didn't overnerf slicing is crazy. In no situation should I have a streak of 5 boxes that are all negative yield from what I spent when I'm running rich yield missions. There's a big difference between nerfing something, and making a profession that takes money with no return. Plus with no slicers around who's going to buy the augments and patterns that currently sell for little more than vendor price. This market is so screwed up, just wait till you lowbies are paying 30k per skill upgrade for your character.

[Helagoth]

Every "OMG slicing is nerfed too much" threads neglect to mention the amount of credits you make via boxes lying around on the ground.

 

Yes, my mission lockboxes suck, but while questing on Taris, I got ~100k just from stuff lying around. Those are lvl 200 slicing lockboxes. I don't know what you get from max level boxes.

[Stillnotking]

Does companion affection increase my CPS?

Barely. You'll get slightly better rewards, but you're looking at a 0.01-0.04 CPS increase. Companion Affection doesn't decrease time spent anymore, either. This makes me sad panda.

 

This is not true. Companion affection is lowering mission times for me exactly as it did pre-patch. Time is decreased by about 17% at 10k affection.

[Balinoar]

Sooo....

 

You guys have to farm credits like the rest of us?

 

The horror.

 

You could have taken slicing, your comment is worthless just like you. It is your choice to limit yourself for no other reason then your own ignorance, just as it is my choice to not limit myself. If slicing wasen't available to you, then you have every right to complain. However slicing was and still is freely available to you, its your own fault you didn't take it!

 

Farm credits like the rest of us... LMAO I'm better then you, so why should I have to play on your level?

[Maxvla]

With 3 companions I earn around 6-7k an hour with 400 slicing and I am actually ok with that .... there is only so many things I can buy with credits in TOR. I don't need to rush.

 

You realize you can do 1-2 quests, take the reward and vendor drops you get from killing mobs, at level 50 and get 6-7k? Your hour just took me 5-10 minutes and I didn't have to spend hours leveling a skill to 400.

 

Quests I'm doing right now at 38 pay out 1000-1500 credits already. Add a few decent gray drops or even a blue/orange item and you are nearly there and not even level 50.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Maxvla

[Stillnotking]

You realize you can do 1-2 quests, take the reward and vendor drops you get from killing mobs, at level 50 and get 6-7k? Your hour just took me 5-10 minutes and I didn't have to spend hours leveling a skill to 400.

 

One daily at 50 gives about 10k from the quest reward alone.

 

Slicing isn't really worth the aggravation anymore, IMO. Others may disagree. I'm actually sort of happy about the nerf, because: a) I made my credits ahead of time and now I get to enjoy lower prices, and b) I was sick of having to pull up the crew window every 10 minutes or else feel like I was slacking.

[Maxvla]

One daily at 50 gives about 10k from the quest reward alone.

 

Slicing isn't really worth the aggravation anymore, IMO. Others may disagree. I'm actually sort of happy about the nerf, because: a) I made my credits ahead of time and now I get to enjoy lower prices, and b) I was sick of having to pull up the crew window every 10 minutes or else feel like I was slacking.

 

That I'll agree with as well. Once someone linked me the spreadsheet and I saw I had to run 10-12 minute missions most of the time I really didn't care for that. Send 2-4 companions out every 30 minutes is not so bad. Every 10 minutes borders on ridiculous. If I didn't have to be careful about selecting the right missions maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

 

Honestly wish, if they wanted to keep it similar to how it is now, they would revert the amount of money being made, limit slicing to 1 character per account per server, and simply fix the scaling to where level 50 missions gave the most, but took the longest.

[Aepervius]

A crafter has the potential to make MUCH more money than anyone with Slicing could have pre-nuke.

 

And yet (some) slicer keep saying they made 1 million, 2 million credits doing only that whole day since starts... How many crafter have made that much within the same time frame ? I certainly made 200K slicing. My other char made -10K (about) making biochem. Note the minus. Thru I haven't yet it above 200. But my biochem guy was negative by the time i was level 25, my slicing guy way thoroughly positive by the same level. And that is the point people seems to oversee. A crafter at lower level is a money LOSS, and probably need at least 2 , maybe 3 skills (gathering+crafting+mission) to make the sellable purple (green don't really sell in my experience). A slicer was money making at all level, even training while doing missions on *one* gathering skills.

 

The effort which goes into crafting compared to slicing ... There was no comparison. Now it begins to be comparable.

 

Was some action required ? Certainly. Is it an over reaction to slicing abuse ? Certainly. But some nerf *WAS* bound to happen.

 

IMHO they could have left it the way it is, with barely changing to maybe a -20% gain, but link the slicing tier to the planet you were in somehow, so that the money was spread over 50 levels instead of being 24/7 farming and be rich by mid level.

[Xxanthar]

Just think what other untested nerfs are on the way from Bioware after this slicing 80% nerf.

They obviously went overboard, everyone but the fanboys agree.

 

Just wait till they start the class balancing.

 

Now that the game is running, BW needs to Focus on the 1990's era graphics engine, the laughable space combat, and the unranked pvp. Making slicing worthless was an open invitation to the credit farmers, nothing more.

[Machazareel]

Every "OMG slicing is nerfed too much" threads neglect to mention the amount of credits you make via boxes lying around on the ground.

 

Yes, my mission lockboxes suck, but while questing on Taris, I got ~100k just from stuff lying around. Those are lvl 200 slicing lockboxes. I don't know what you get from max level boxes.

 

So you looted a couple hundred slicing nodes while on Taris? I kind of doubt that.

[Jinnlynx]

slicing isn't and never was meant to be a huge money maker. it like investigation is a means to get rare crafting schismatics. Any money you make is a bonus. Lets all be real and stop looking for short cuts.

[Supersomething]

You can still make money with Slicing, but its a hell of a lot harder now. Bioware is basically forcing players to search for the Slicing nodes now rather than spamming the missions all day. You always get a positive return on the nodes lol.

[zImperium]

After waking up this morning, I come to a thread with 13 pages! Wow!

 

I have updated the main post, but I am going to mirror these responses here:

 

If it's not made for money making, then what use is slicing?

This is easy. On some FPs, you will be granted some extra bonuses, such as on Collocoid War Games where you can get your very own pet for the last fight! Secondly, slicing is made to offset the guaranteed negative CPS that each profession gives you. Also, there are cases around the galaxy which are worth the same amount that you make on a mission, for free! Do some exploration, and you will find them.

 

You mentioned a Negative CPS in certain cases, is this the case the entire time?

Yes, and no. You can get a Negative CPS streak very easily. Failure rate, low returns can all attribute to a Negative CPS. However, statistics show that you will get Positive CPS eventually to negate the Negative CPS. Just don't expect to always go up anymore.

 

So are the best missions now rank 5, regardless if there are abundant/rich yield missions on the other ranks?

Yes. The game seems to equal out at Level 5 missions, but do not disregard Level 6 and Level 4. Level 4 has the proof that it is only *very* slightly lower than Level 5 missions. This is because Level 5 has a higher crit yield. Also, you cannot run just Level 5 missions; you are only given 3 to run, so you have to look to Level 6 and Level 4. Use my information to decide what you do with your other two companions.

 

Discussion: Is Slicing now the underdog of the Crew Missions?

The answer is yes and no. Gatherables (such as BioAnalysis), grant you items. If you vendor them, you will not turn a profit on these missions. However, if you can sell on the Market (or whatever its called) for credits to other players, right now you can turn a lucrative profit. However, after a month or two once the nerf takes place, the credit requirement that people are advertising for the items may go down, and the other mission/gathering skills will turn less of a profit on the Market, and may come more in line with Slicing, but still will not be anywhere close where Slicing is right now.

[Aepervius]

So you looted a couple hundred slicing nodes while on Taris? I kind of doubt that.

 

I don#t disbelieve that. On my salvaging+slicing(soon to be replaced by archeology)+bioanalyzis char, I have made monday 250-300 nodes in 6 hours playing. While doing the mission I was simply clicking on every nodes I saw. That was about 80 nodes for slicing, or 1 nodes every 5 minutes while questing.

 

True it was in an urban environment (I had a hard time getting plant , still plenty, but slicing box and salvaging stuff more plenty).

 

And by the way I still made good money from slicing *without* going on any mission, just clicking box. The reason I want to switch to archeology is to provide raw material for my chars.

 

Well to finish this post : if he knows where they spawn, and go back and forth between spawn points, you can quickly gather a lot of box.

[zImperium]

But now, the 49-50 are still a waste of time and the lower level quests were made more expensive and return lower yields. I sent two companions out on both the Rich 41-48 missions, my results were:

 

Each mission was 2045 credits to run. 30 Minutes and I have 400 slicing.

 

What i got back in return?

 

1489 & 1888

 

Total Cost to run: 4090

Total Return (Green boxes): 3377

 

Total Loss: -713

 

Its a total waste of time now, I'm throwing credits into thin air and letting them magically disappear on me. It was not uncommon to get 3k-6k returns on those two missions pre-nerf.

 

As mentioned in my post, you may get negative CPS for a certain period of time, while you are unlucky. Slicing has become a skill in which you can lose, even if you gain. However, the average does come out positive. Extrapolate this versus 30 runs and you will see your positive CPS.

 

Oh. Another thing that I forgot to mention in my first post. This is a GAME. People shouldnt have to worry very much about where their next pay check is going to come from in game. And before people start talking about how it was hard to make money in other games doesnt mean it was right, fun, or enjoyable to play that way.

 

While I agree with you, I also believe that if you do not impress passion into the game, developers will not mirror the same. The age-old argument of "Its a game, chill out" only works in situations in which it spills over to real life. There's nothing wrong with passion in a game you love, just as long as it doesn't affect your real life!

 

Slicing is just complete garbage all around now.

 

No, its not. (See my other arguments) Its just harder, much harder. Maybe too hard, but the developers will need to assess that as their changes come into fruition.

 

Just think what other untested nerfs are on the way from Bioware after this slicing 80% nerf.

They obviously went overboard, everyone but the fanboys agree.

 

Just wait till they start the class balancing.

 

This is kind of what I'm afraid of, and I'm hoping that displaying the raw numbers and the straight-up arguments allows BioWare to see that they may have shoved their hand on the scale too hard.

 

Balance is a very difficult thing to do. It needs to be done *carefully*, not with a sledgehammer. You're bound to break other things that way.

[Cameirus]

Sooo....

 

You guys have to farm credits like the rest of us?

 

The horror.

 

The whole point of this skill was to give people who dont like crafting an option to stay reasonably level with credits to afford basic stuff.

 

If it does not do that then its broken.

 

you may not like the idea, but the whole purpose was to provide a reasonable income stream for people who dont like playing the GTN.

 

Seriously, I'm getting the impression BW dont have a clue where they want to go with this.

 

 

OP - nice post.